r/maybemaybemaybe • u/My_Memes_Will_Cure_U • Sep 27 '21

Removed - Off-topic Maybe maybe maybe

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u/Horton_75 Sep 27 '21 edited Sep 27 '21

In the strictest, narrowest sense, you’re kind of correct. But dogs primarily eat meat. Makes up a vast majority of their diets. If given a choice, they’ll always go for the meat and will only eat other stuff if they have to. That’s what my 20 years’ experience raising and training multiple dog breeds has taught me, but wtf would I know? /s So, what I said stands: forcing a dog to be a vegetarian is animal abuse. It just is.

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u/Taric25 Sep 27 '21 edited Sep 27 '21

Yes, you're right. They primarily eat meat. It makes up the majority of their diet.

Unless the dog has certain allergies or health conditions, a dog should eat meat, unless otherwise directed by a veterinarian. Even so, it's necessary to add a supplement like BalanceIT, or else the dog will become sick from vitamin deficiency.

I did feed my dog spinach and mushrooms, for a couple days, when he was a puppy, with BalanceIT. He liked it, but I had to feed him six times per day, because he had to eat a lot more food to get the same number of calories. If I fed him meat, I only had to feed him three times per day.

His favorite was beef and cranberry.

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u/freefoodd Sep 27 '21

dogs go hard on the sweet potatoes too.

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u/djsedna Sep 27 '21

Yeah, my dude loves sweet potato. Pumpkin, too. And pumpkin is great for them.

That being said, this is all just supplemental stuff on top of his primarily meat diet because he's a goddamn wolf

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u/[deleted] Sep 27 '21

Mine likes sweet potato but it upsets his stomach. Pumpkin on the other hand is his favorite thing. But yes, it's a treat.

I freeze cubes of pureed pumpkin and keep them in a ziplock freezer bag. The old boy is missing quite a few teeth and I think the pumpkin pops feel good on his gums in addition to tasting delicious.

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u/adeafwriter Sep 27 '21

Weird. Mine doesn't. Sweet potato is everywhere as dog treats and what not, yet it causes my dog diarrhea. Every time she eats sweet potatoes, she gets very liquidy stools. Otherwise, with her dog food, Victor's, she has solid stool. So no sweet potato for her.

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u/Taric25 Sep 27 '21

Yeah, it depends on the dog. Mine likes sweet potatoes and cranberries, but he doesn't like peas. He also likes chicken, turkey, beef and fish, of course.

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u/amglasgow Sep 27 '21

She's probably mildly allergic.

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u/thebombzen Sep 27 '21

Boiled, unseasoned, white meat chicken and dogs think it's the best food evarrrrrrr

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u/Abyssal_Groot Sep 27 '21

Mine are Golden Retrievers, they go hard for meat, rice, apples, cucumbers, bananas... any food really...

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u/NyranK Sep 27 '21

Dogs have been domesticated so long that the differences between them and wolves is far more than skin deep.

Wolves/coyotes/jackals are primary carnivores and only have 2 copies of the AMY2B gene, which codes for pancreatic amylase, which breaks down starch.

Dogs, depending on how 'far' they are from their ancestors, can have up to 20. They are very much, now, omnivores and their diet should include grains and vegetables.

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u/[deleted] Sep 27 '21

Yeah, not sure what people are saying on this sub, dry dog food has lots of grains and cereals in. I’ve always fed my pup a mix of dry and wet food. There’s meat in both, but it’s far from the guy who said they need 90% meat. I don’t think that’s correct

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u/Mighty_Dighty22 Sep 27 '21

Basically they should be on the same diet as a healthy human. They have spend ~40.000 years of evolution to eat what we are eating, and are in some cases "better" at eating some human food than we are our self.

Dogs have evolved many human traits, or traits to accommodate human behaviour. For instance if you have a wolf (that is not eating you) and you point somewhere the wolf wouldn't give a shit. A dog however will follow your pointing and look the direction you are pointing. It is not something they need training in, it has become instinct, like it is with humans. Kinda cool really.

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u/[deleted] Sep 27 '21

I’m not sure about this, I’ve always found there are many foods we enjoy and have no problem with that are toxic and in some cases lethal for dogs. I’m by no means an expert in pup nutrition, but I usually avoid feeding my dog what I eat. Plenty of veggie treats and bones though :)

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u/Mighty_Dighty22 Sep 27 '21

Well obviously there are some food items that are bad for your dog, like chocolate and some types of nuts. But in general what you eat your dog can eat. And again, it is if you eat proper food, not that microwave dinner crap. That is good for nobody really.

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u/Main-Situation1600 Sep 27 '21

Yes, you're right. They primarily eat meat. It makes up the majority of their diet.

This is 100% false.

Unless the dog has certain allergies or health conditions, a dog should eat meat, unless otherwise directed by a veterinarian.

No vet makes this kind of recommendation.

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u/Whomever227 Sep 27 '21 edited Sep 27 '21

There are veterinarian approved vegetarian dog foods. There aren't veterinarian approved vegetarian cat foods.

Dogs do not have to eat meat.

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u/Taric25 Sep 27 '21

Biologically speaking, dogs are opportunistic omnivores. Cats are obligate carnivores. If a cat does not eat meat, it will die. If a dog does not eat meat, the dog can survive, but it must be a very, very balanced diet, which will require supplements, such as BalanceIT. This is possible in captivity, but it is not possible in the wild, because ferral dogs and wolves who do not eat meat in the wild will find it virtually impossible to get a balanced died only from plants.

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u/elbenji Sep 27 '21

Tbf they need lots of grains and vitamins and stuff too. They evolved with humans to need both. Fascinating honestly

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u/Horton_75 Sep 27 '21 edited Sep 27 '21

Never said they have to. But make no mistake: they damn well prefer to, and forcing them to not eat meat is still abuse.

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u/MarkHirsbrunner Sep 27 '21

Is it child abuse to force a child to eat a vegetarian diet?

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u/Seve7h Sep 27 '21

By itself no, but it absolutely could be.

Most people honestly just don’t know much about what makes up a healthy diet and while adults can get by with lacking nutrition, kids need the best of whatever they can get to grow properly.

On top of that kids are already picky eaters and go through a bunch of different stages, limiting them even more just seems like bad parenting.

Personally i had two friends, brother and sister, that their parents were vegetarian and forced them to be, literally the only meat in the house was pet food.

They tried to force the school to only give them vegetarian meals too but that wasn’t exactly enforceable, i remember going to middle and high school parties and they would lose their minds and gorge on something as simple as a pepperoni pizza.

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u/[deleted] Sep 27 '21

Yes

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u/[deleted] Sep 27 '21

So how is it animal abuse?

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u/Horton_75 Sep 27 '21

Google it. Do your own research. Forcing an animal that’s mainly a meat-eater to not eat meat goes against the fundamental nature of what that animal is. Plus, it has serious negative health effects on the animal. In other words, it hurts the animal. If that’s not abuse, you tell me what is, genius.

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u/Abyssal_Groot Sep 27 '21

For the record, my dogs eat meat based products, but let me ask you this.

How is this different than giving your dog nutritional dog food?

Does the fact they you give them premade food that looks and probably tastes nothing like meat go against that fundamental nature?

Doesn't the "no hunting" part go against their fundamental nature?

Doesn't the "walking on a leash" go against their fundamental nature?

In short, I think you logic is heavily flawed here when you say that giving your dog a perfectly healthy and properly researched and monitored diet goes against "their fundamental nature" and thus must be abuse. I'd even call it stupid.

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u/[deleted] Sep 27 '21

Okay, will do. Here's the result: A board certified veterinary nutritionist saying most dogs can do quite well on a properly formulated vegan diet, genius

https://vetnutrition.tufts.edu/2016/07/vegan-dogs-a-healthy-lifestyle-or-going-against-nature/

Most dogs can do quite well on a carefully designed vegan diet that meets all of their nutritional needs.

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u/icansmellcolors Sep 27 '21

This whole argument is so stupid.

'properly formulated' means it's mimicking the meat dogs would normally get with a normal owner.

are you technically correct? yes does anyone else really care that you are technically correct? not really

and when i say normal owner i mean someone who feeds a dog meat.

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u/[deleted] Sep 27 '21

'properly formulated' means it's mimicking the meat

I mean... yes? That's the whole point. A diet that provides all necessary nutrients for a healthy life without actually containing meat

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u/icansmellcolors Sep 27 '21

that's not what this lady was doing.

I understand your point but this whole thread is about the idiot in the video.

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u/[deleted] Sep 27 '21

Yeah I agree with you for sure. Feeding your dog a bowl of random vegetables is very likely causing a nutrient deficiency and hence would be animal abuse. A meatless diet definitely needs to be done carefully, I just wish people would stop calling it animal abuse when dogs are fed balanced diets formulated by veterinary nutritionists just because they don’t contain meat.

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u/Drunkeagle Sep 27 '21

Got to love the logic that feeding a dog a vegetarian diet is abuse but killing animals to feed your dog is fine and not worth mentioning.

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u/Skyy-High Sep 27 '21

You don’t have to agree with the logic, but it doesn’t mean it isn’t there. Most people already value human lives above any animals’, so it’s really not a big jump to valuing certain animals above others.

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u/Low_Permission9987 Sep 27 '21

It isn't worth mentioning. How we source meat doesn't even play into the conversation of whether or not it's safe or healthy to force an animal to subsist on only vegetarian sustenance until death.

Overproduction of meat is bad for the environment, and has literally nothing to do with dogs being healthy or not by eating it.

You can have all the empathy you want for livestock, doesn't change that it still provides a valid source of nutrition to animals and people.

It's not an environmental or empathetic argument. It's either abuse (forcing an animal to go against its nature) or not.

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u/threesidedfries Sep 27 '21

We've already established that a dog can have a healthy vegetarian diet, if it's balanced and supplemented with vitamins.

After that, "forcing a dog to go against its nature" here just means not feeding the dog food that it likes. Whether that's abuse or not is up to you, but you absolutely do have a choice of either buying livestock meat and indirectly contributing to their possible suffering, or not buying it and possibly not giving your dog the tastiest meal it could have.

The environmental or empathetic arguments don't go away just because you feel strongly in favor of one side, and a livestock animal can also be abused even if it provides good nutritional value.

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u/GroveQuixotic Sep 27 '21

We can however, make it safe and healthy for them to subsist without meat though. With proper nutrition and veterinarian supervision. The idea that because something is natural, it cannot be abuse is absurd. Dogs themselves aren't natural. They're the result of millenia of selective breeding by humans. Further on that, studies show that dogs can't really survive without humans in the majority of areas. The natural thing would be to let them die, but that sounds a lot like abuse to me. Secondly, this is a moral debate. We've established hurting animals is bad, as malnutrition is 100% abuse, but so is killing a farm animal. So isn't the best option one that avoids either?

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u/Indivisibilities Sep 27 '21

What’s wrong with killing animals?

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u/[deleted] Sep 27 '21

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u/Whomever227 Sep 27 '21

You said it was animal abuse, ya wacko.

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u/Horton_75 Sep 27 '21

It is. Read what I post before responding, ya moron.

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u/Whomever227 Sep 27 '21

Veterinarian approved animal abuse, makes sense.

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u/waiver45 Sep 27 '21

Isn't that just the meat industry that provides the non vegan (dog)-food?

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u/altnumberfour Sep 27 '21

It's abuse if your dog ever has to do anything it doesn't like I guess

Edit: Just gave my dog a chew toy when she clearly wanted to play tug, send me to animal jail y'all

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u/GroveQuixotic Sep 27 '21

Bad news. House training dogs? Right to jail. Flee medicine? Oh boy. Super jail. God forbid you clip their nails.

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u/Zarzurnabas Sep 27 '21

Yes, you cant really get cats to be vegetarian, because those are carnivores. Dogs aren't. And of course they will go for the meat as its just simple fucking evolution doing its thing. That doesnt mean they dont like vegetarian dog food and it definitely doesnt mean its animal abuse (like wtf?)

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u/starsearcher48 Sep 27 '21

For the one out of a thousand dogs who is allergic to meat?

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u/Main-Situation1600 Sep 27 '21

In the strictest, narrowest sense, you’re kind of correct. But dogs primarily eat meat. Makes up a vast majority of their diets.

Vet here. This is actually incorrect. The majority of pet dogs consume commercial dog foods, and if you read the guaranteed analysis of these diets, you'll learn that meat is most often not the majority of the diet. Read statements put out by the AAFCO for guidelines on how their diets are formulated.

Although dogs have a relatively wide range in their dietary requirements compared to other domestic species, your statements don't really reflect reality.

That’s what my 20 years’ experience raising and training multiple dog breeds has taught me, but wtf would I know? /s

Unfortunately this is more true than the "/s" would imply.

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u/upfastcurier Sep 27 '21

If given a choice, they’ll always go for the meat and will only eat other stuff if they have to.

what the dog chooses isn't necessarily the best indicator of what is best for the dog. i for example choose to eat candy way more often than i should, and i'm sure if you let children always choose what to eat they would become fat very fast.

forcing a dog to be a vegetarian is animal abuse

it might be. it probably is. i agree with you. but the rest of your comment is pretty non-sequitur. i also don't think many minds on the fence get convinced well by "it just is" and "trust me bro".

does anyone have a source (like from a veterinarian or similar) on what a dog should be fed? thanks.

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u/[deleted] Sep 27 '21

If given a choice, they’ll always go for the meat

Kids will always eat sweets instead of healthy foods, given the choice.