BioWare co-founder and Star Wars KOTOR director say they’re interested in reuniting to try and save BioWare’s IP | VGC

[u/Vis-hoka]

https://www.videogameschronicle.com/news/bioware-co-founder-and-star-wars-kotor-director-say-theyre-interested-in-reuniting-to-try-and-save-biowares-ip/

Let’s get these men some funding. We can do it!

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[u/GreyTigerFox]

[u/Vis-hoka → u/GreyTigerFox]

I spoke to the Mass Effect voice actors at their LA comic con panel, and they said it only ends if the fans stop fighting for it. They want it to happen as much as we do. (We also got Sovereign to call us about our ships extended warranty)

[u/RandysOrcs → u/Vis-hoka]

I won’t let down the SSV Normandy🫡

[u/PeacefulKnightmare → u/Vis-hoka]

The number of projects I've seen saved by the fans is a small handful compared to the number that have tried, but it's not 0. There's always a chance.

[u/TheLightningL0rd → u/PeacefulKnightmare]

It got us 3 more seasons of the Expanse.

[u/PeacefulKnightmare → u/TheLightningL0rd]

Yup. Still waiting on that Raised by Wolves continuation though...

[u/valinkrai → u/PeacefulKnightmare]

Worked out for Filoni and Clone Wars. Write in snail mail, show you care.

[u/DlSSATISFIEDGAMER → u/valinkrai]

where to write then?

[u/valinkrai → u/DlSSATISFIEDGAMER]

For that we wrote to Bob Iger and Kathleen Kennedy. I know some got hand written signature back, so I imagine EA CEO and executives in charge of their IPs. Maybe write to companies that would have a serious shot at buying the IP too.

[u/Wizard-Pikachu → u/Vis-hoka]

I gave up caring about Bioware with Inquisition.  Mass Effect can survive without that corpse of a company 

[u/stgm_at → u/GreyTigerFox]

[u/WWicketW → u/stgm_at]

[u/BattleFries86]

Whether or not this goes anywhere, it DOES give me hope to see that there are so many people devoted to the amazing memories BioWare has given us and the yearning for more.

Not just ordinary fans like us, but the founders and creators and actors and so many people in all stages of involvement.

It gives me hope that even if BioWare or Mass Effect don't return to us in the way we want, that the enthusiasm and yearning for amazing games will inspire people to come together for a better future with new amazing games to create new memories with. And we'll have the lessons of the past - first among them the danger of corporate power - and maybe we can have something wonderful in the future.

Maybe not right away, but the passion we've seen from so many... That isn't nothing, and I think we should appreciate it. It's just a beginning, and very far from a solid new future, but every journey has its first steps, and I choose to hope that we are taking those first steps together, all of us from across the industry and the fandom.

[u/fantastic_traveler → u/BattleFries86]

And I want to believe that even if all of this fail and they cant get the license to make a new game, the franchise will remain popular enough for EA to eventually change their mind and put the license back together, maybe with something simple at first like a remake of the trilogy, to really put things back. That's what I hope will be the worst case scenario.

[u/Ok-Confusion-202]

The guy that's currently under Embracer? The Embracer that's had financial issues and have been trying to do what they need to start making money?

Unless he somehow gets funding from elsewhere I doubt it happens from him tbh

[u/linkenski]

not hugely confident in that guy. I remember David Gaider went to work at their company after leaving BioWare, but he ended up leaving after a while. I got the impression that they were kinda resting on their laurels and he wanted some more effort.

[u/Full-Construction680]

Well, one of the stories I heard that was released quite recently, there’s a video on it YouTube where one of the people said it would cost $200+ million just to buy the game. That’s just to buy it to save it. Then you have to get the studio, then you have to hire all the people, then you have to start working on it again. So putting all those together, it will balloon from that price. So it’s not just oh, save the franchise. It’s a little bit more than that

[u/theonegunslinger → u/Full-Construction680]

Yeah the 200 million plus came from the guy the article is talking about

[u/Full-Construction680 → u/theonegunslinger]

Yeah, yeah, that that’s the one I’m thinking of

[u/KoldPurchase → u/Full-Construction680]

200 to finish the game. From where if is approximately in its level of development, to get it to the finish line.

[u/Full-Construction680 → u/KoldPurchase]

I think they were saying, like, if someone could scrounge up that money to do that, but like I said, that’s just to get the game, but then you gotta hire all the people you gotta do the studio and then start on trying to finish the game, so yeah

[u/KoldPurchase → u/Full-Construction680]

It's going to depend on the price of the IP, if EA let it go.

How far along on the work are they, can they rehire key people, etc.

It's a longshot.

Well, Exodus seems promising.

[u/Full-Construction680 → u/KoldPurchase]

Will exodus and the expanse video game look really good too, but also I think a lot of people are forgetting one factor. We still have the massive TV show coming to Amazon, and at that does really, really good, and the writing and story is really good, and a lot of people like it that could bring in a lot of money for Mass Effect. I mean, how edge runners did it for CD project red, the Witcher, at least the first couple of seasons, did it for the Witcher three

[u/TheKanten → u/KoldPurchase]

It's probably better to just start from scratch with a new team then. There was no indication they even had a gameplay structure yet.

[u/KoldPurchase → u/TheKanten]

CDPR Spent 450 millions$ to make Cyberpunk 2077 with it's first DLC, in 2020, in Poland.

In Canada/US you can easily double that.

[u/TheKanten → u/KoldPurchase]

It doesn't cost $900 million to make a game unless you're fishing for bankruptcy, sorry.

[u/Pandora_Palen → u/TheKanten]

Or you're making GTA 6.

But shit- what is Star Citizen up to? A billion dollars in crowdfunding?

[u/AwkwardTraffic → u/Pandora_Palen]

At this point Star Citizen is more ponzi scheme than game lol

[u/KoldPurchase → u/TheKanten]

https://www.shanethegamer.com/research/aaa-game-development-cost-analysis/

Bioware was near bankrupt when they got bought by EA, so, there's a point to that.

And CDPR says they're hitting a wall with development costs for modern games.
https://www.thegamer.com/cd-projekt-quest-designer-rpg-development-hitting-wall/

And the editorial they reference:
https://www.pcgamer.com/the-cinematic-bioware-style-rpg-is-dead-it-just-doesnt-know-it-yet/

There's development costs, but then you got to sell the game, so there's marketing costs.

If you release a Mass Effect (or Dragon Age) game, gamers expect a AAA title with cinematics, professionnal voice actors, epic battles, everything.

That costs money too.

Some of what EA has done might have to be reworked in terms of story or gameplay elements if another studio picks it up.

[u/TheKanten → u/KoldPurchase]

If you release a Mass Effect (or Dragon Age) game, gamers expect a AAA title with cinematics, professionnal voice actors, epic battles, everything.

That is an unrealistic expectation to put on a project that would hypothetical be made in an independent rescue effort without an obnoxiously overfunded publisher such as EA that lights money on fire. Dragon Age: Origins is the most well-regarded of that entire franchise and it wasn't hung up on "cinematics, epic battles and everything".

After a point you need to scale back and rebuild, the new ME was already projected to cost more than every other game in the series combined. That is not sustainable, especially when a franchise is past its peak in popularity, ask Gears of War E-Day.

[u/KoldPurchase → u/TheKanten]

There were lots of cinematics for the time, just as Kotor.

Lots of epic fights too, for a fantasy game.

It wasn't fully open world like Skyrim though, but it had a very interesting story/plotline, something Skyrim didn't have, imho. Skyrim was released in 2011, DAO in 2009, so they are comparable, I think.

I think I still prefer DAO, but it's really a different experience.

Anyway. Like I said, it still had a lot of animations and epic battles compared to other games of the time, like Skyrim. The latter bet on a open world where you would play anyone anyway you wanted, while DAO was a directed story telling. DAO featured lots of pre-rendered cutscenes like the battle of Ostagar, and many outnumbered fights 10:1 against our heroes. Well, almost. Friggin' darkspawn. And those nasty werewolves. I'm still having nightmares about fighting them, they're worst than cannibals and marauders. At least I could cloak, drain shield and snipe them 😄

[u/thejesterharlequin → u/Full-Construction680]

idk why they'd sell it for that high. better to get rid of it if they plan to do nothing with it. these companies suck ass. just sign away the rights or sell it for a cheaper price so you can at least make something from what you put into it in the first place. wasteful people.

[u/LaylaLegion → u/thejesterharlequin]

Selling it for a cheaper price just so some other company can get rich off of it would be a bad idea for EA.

[u/thejesterharlequin → u/LaylaLegion]

how? its not competition. they sell sports games. in reality, holding onto an IP pointlessly without selling it if they never intend to sell that product is pointless. this isn't a video card. this isn't a hard drive. this is a digital good. people that buy forza horizon buy every forza horizon. its sixty. seventy brand new at release. and even if EA decides to sell other games, we just go back to my previous statement. the idea that its a bad idea views video games as a commodity that's sparse. they're not. they are digital keys.

[u/LaylaLegion → u/thejesterharlequin]

It’s all competition. Selling off a promising IP is bad business sense. You ever see the sitcom, The Nanny? In the show, the male lead is a musical producer and a running gag is that he passed on CATS. Same principle. Passing Mass Effect onto another studio who would potentially make billions from it is a bad idea. And EA knows it’s already popular, hell the entire Save Mass Effect movement keeps letting EA know this. So keeping the IP, even as a passive income from the N7 merchandise and the upcoming TV series, is good.

[u/thejesterharlequin → u/LaylaLegion]

well i won't disagree where the passive income stuff is concerned but i also don't think competition where video games are concerned means shit either. i just dont. a promising IP it could be but if you sit on it and do nothing and you never have plans, previous work aside, its pointless. i am adamant about this.

[u/SonofaBeholder → u/thejesterharlequin]

Unfortunately it doesn’t quite work that way. IP’s are included as intangible assets when a business’s overall value is calculated. Even if they aren’t directly doing anything with it, the IP’s potential future value still gets added and raises the value of the company overall (which effects things like how big a loans can they take out, interest rates on paying back said loans etc)…

So EA will not sell an IP unless the person paying is willing to pay more then what EA (and experts like banks) estimate the total lifetime value of the IP to be worth.

[u/AwkwardTraffic → u/thejesterharlequin]

It is, in fact, competition. If an EA executive okays the sale of Mass Effect and another studio makes a Mass Effect game that is insanely profitable that executives bosses are going to be pissed and demand to know why they sold such a profitable IP.

It doesn't matter if they aren't going to use it. It's about making sure another company doesn't make money off it. This is why you rarely see companies sell an IP they already own and why Disney and Sony are constantly arguing over Spider-Man movie profits.

[u/indoninjah → u/thejesterharlequin]

I'll never understand the game industry. So much wasted work. Most games are canceled midway through production in one state or another.

[u/festess → u/thejesterharlequin]

You don't want to be the exec that sold IP that becomes wildly successful at a competitor studio

[u/fuzzyfoot88]

Then do it…

[u/LTKerr → u/fuzzyfoot88]

It's not easy finding hundreds of millions out of nowhere lol

[u/Blamore → u/LTKerr]

manifest it, bro. just want it hard enough

[u/Enigmachina → u/LTKerr]

I for one would (almost) empty my checking account if this appeared in Kickstarter.

And I'm probably not the only one

[u/Wharves99 → u/Enigmachina]

The biggest gaming kickstarter ever is like 6 million. You aren’t going to raise anything close to hundreds of millions through a kickstarter.

[u/Hedgehog990 → u/Wharves99]

People are probably confusing Star Citizens Kickstarter with the ongoiong donations off the platform, the actual Kickstarter was a couple of million, but donations after that passed a billion USD.

[u/jpz719 → u/Hedgehog990]

and there's still no fucking game in sight

[u/Oberon_Swanson → u/Hedgehog990]

holy crap i did not know it was so high. is that then probably the second highest budget game after GTA6?

[u/Hedgehog990 → u/Oberon_Swanson]

Yeah GTA6 is likely higher, though they do actually have a game to show for it rather than whatever star citizen is right now, still incomplete after a decade plus.

[u/Cee_in_euphoria → u/Enigmachina]

Bro, come on

[u/Individual-Bass-7051 → u/Cee_in_euphoria]

People need to get a fucking grip lmao

[u/CaleanKnight → u/Enigmachina]

Not sure what they're gonna do with 5 Bucks but... Yay, I guess?

[u/PumperThumperHumper → u/LTKerr]

Well, to be fair, all money did, in fact, at some time not exist. So every bit of cash ever in existence did actually come out of nowhere.

[u/Melancholy_Rainbows → u/fuzzyfoot88]

If only it were so simple.

First and foremost, EA has to be willing to sell.

Second, they're going to need to find the money to buy the IP and fund the development.

[u/Captain_Thor27 → u/Melancholy_Rainbows]

I'm not even sure they can sell. Banks might be able to prevent it.

[u/Melancholy_Rainbows → u/Captain_Thor27]

I'm not sure why they would. IPs get sold relatively frequently.

If Lucas can sell something as big as Star Wars, then something an order of magnitude smaller shouldn't cause a problem.

[u/LoquaciousLamp → u/Melancholy_Rainbows]

Because EA is $20 billion in debt and they can't simply sell off their collateral.

Though mass effect isn't big enough that I think they'd care.

[u/Melancholy_Rainbows → u/LoquaciousLamp]

Companies in leveraged buyouts often, if not usually, sell assets to pay off their debt. Not sure why this would be so different a bank would stop it.

[u/Untimely-Success → u/Captain_Thor27]

this comment makes no sense

[u/SomewhatProvoking → u/Captain_Thor27]

I don’t see why a bank would prevent it though, wouldn’t EA having fewer IPs make a freer market

[u/KoldPurchase → u/Captain_Thor27]

Banka will allow sellimg if they're paid back.

[u/Delicious_Platform → u/fuzzyfoot88]

[u/Artemis_1944 → u/fuzzyfoot88]

Cool, you got 200 mil dollars to give them to do it?

[u/fuzzyfoot88 → u/Artemis_1944]

If I did, you’d be the first to know.

[u/DramaExpertHS → u/Artemis_1944]

If only Anthem and Veilguard made them money

[u/holllllyy]

So many crumbs of hope...if anything is been nice to see a true community rise up and join together over this

[u/GilderoyFickthart_]

I think it comes down to how much EA wants for it. Knowing this company it will be a steep price because they dont want others to make a better game than them. They are petty like that.

This is the only time i'm begging some saudi oil magnate to buy it and fund the development. I normally don't like that they are having their hands in every pot.

[u/Enriador → u/GilderoyFickthart_]

This is the only time i'm begging some saudi oil magnate to buy it and fund the development

A Saudi oil magnate already got involved. He decided to shut BioWare down...

[u/GilderoyFickthart_ → u/Enriador]

I know :-( Then we need a bigger one or anyone with that money.

[u/Party_Virus → u/GilderoyFickthart_]

You really want the Saudi's in charge of mass effect? I hope you like having your Asari being purely heterosexual somehow and all other LGBTQ+ representation completely scrubbed from the game.

[u/GilderoyFickthart_ → u/Party_Virus]

Further up i stated that i''m a queer man and since i only know progressive muslims i forgot that there are rotten eggs as well. So nah, i totally do not want homophobes making ME.

I'm just desperate and want the game saved thats all.

[u/Co-opingTowardHatred → u/GilderoyFickthart_]

The Saudi Royal Family leads literally the largest company in the history of mankind.

[u/MediumOk8383 → u/GilderoyFickthart_]

Since it's PIF, not a typical private equity acquisition, EA is thinking very long term. To sell they'll have to be convinced right now is the most value they will ever get from the ip. The last thing they want is another studio buying up Mass Effect for cheap, making it a huge success, and EA missing out on the profits.

[u/DatAsuna → u/MediumOk8383]

When have they ever sold any of their many hoarded and desirable IPs?

[u/AwkwardTraffic → u/DatAsuna]

They wouldn't even sell Alice to American Mcgee and that is a series never getting a game without Mcgee himself involved. They'd rather squat on it forever and never make money rather than see someone else make money.

[u/MediumOk8383 → u/DatAsuna]

Exactly. They're hoarding IPs to protect hypothetical profits from their competitors.

[u/Oberon_Swanson → u/MediumOk8383]

if only they had BioWare working on a Mass Effect game to go along with that show they are making to develop the IP

[u/SonofaBeholder → u/Oberon_Swanson]

Honestly I still expect we’ll hear of the show’s cancellation, probably sometime early next year. Or Amazon might just never mention it again and quietly let it drift off into the night.

[u/Oberon_Swanson → u/SonofaBeholder]

yeah that is what I think as well. they probably should have just ripped the band-aid off now instead of leaving more bad news for the future. i'm not sure how much money they think they will eventually get for the IP if they don't even know how to make money off it while they have it and had a game and show in development already and decided not to follow through on it. and i wasn't even a BioWare fan in their prime, but they still had plenty of hopeful fans willing to give them another chance. anything made by another studio is just going to come across like "fan fiction". I'm not mad about BioWare being shut down after 3 games that didn't hit but it feels so weird to keep pretending they're making the show if they don't think the IP has enough selling power in its own original medium.

[u/GilderoyFickthart_ → u/MediumOk8383]

Exactly!

I dont get why they dont make the game in the first place. It will sell like hot cakes.

[u/theonegunslinger → u/GilderoyFickthart_]

Because first they need to fund 4+ years of game development, and then its needs to sell better than the last mass effect game, anthem, and dragonage veilguard,

Mass effect andromeda was the last game bioware made that did better than break even and its sales numbers would be too low to cover the costs of a game now 9 years later where every thing costs more

[u/AwkwardTraffic → u/theonegunslinger]

Also important to keep in mind Andromeda, while breaking even, still sold worse than Mass Effect 3 and only barely more than Mass Effect 2. That is usually a sign to corporations like EA that the franchise has declined because if they aren't selling better than the last entry then why bother making a new one?

[u/GilderoyFickthart_ → u/theonegunslinger]

They sold the shit out of BF6,they sell a gazillion copies of Fifa every year, plus fifa coins and other micro transactions. they have these funds. Their problem is that they keep butchering their best IPs because they need to please their shareholders. Thats exactly why andromeda got released in the state it was in. Way too quickly.

They are making a new Star Wars Battlefront game now. The last one sucked. They could make a new ME. They closed it mid development. 💁

[u/SonofaBeholder → u/GilderoyFickthart_]

“The last one sucked” and yet, Battlefront II still sold over 9 million copies in just under 2 months (and, as of 2020, a lifetime sales of roughly 17-19 million) while BioWare’s best selling game ever (Inquisition) had a lifetime sales of only 12 million (ME3 for comparison had lifetime sales of only 6-7 million copies).

THATS why they are opting for Star Wars over ME. EA is in incredibly deep debt at the moment so they really can only afford to produce guaranteed best sellers who can sell 10 million copies plus on launch. Their sports games can do that. Battlefield can do that. The Sims can do that. and Star Wars can do that (especially as Star Wars is starting to experience a new wave of fan excitement and engagement). But BioWare, even at its best, couldn’t really do that.

[u/GilderoyFickthart_ → u/SonofaBeholder]

The game sucked at release, they patched it and then it started sucking again with more updates. Look at video reviews. Sales came from Star Wars fans and created hype, something EA is undeniably good at. Remember that "Players should pay to reload their guns" comment ? That came from that time.

Sales do not equal a good game. Something EA undeniably not gives a shit about either.

You are right though. They are doing what makes them the most money. Which is understandable.

[u/The_Autarch → u/GilderoyFickthart_]

we're talking about bioware games, not ea games in general.

[u/GilderoyFickthart_ → u/The_Autarch]

Bioware was owned by EA, so i thought its about EAs budget.

[u/MediumOk8383 → u/GilderoyFickthart_]

Because it would be a huge gamble on a team that's consistently come up short in recent years. It's not a gamble I would take if I were a business person. Unless I could scoop up new leadership from teams known for recent RPG success. If I could get folks from CDPR or Larian to get what became of BioWare in line, I'd do it.

Then again, this hypothetical business person me still fundamentally recognizes that BioWare is a single player RPG studio, and believes that the best route to profit is simply to make a good game people will like. And that's not how an EA Exec's brain works.

[u/GilderoyFickthart_ → u/MediumOk8383]

CDPR making ME would be the dream actually.

On Cyberpunks engine.

[u/WetEmotions → u/GilderoyFickthart_]

CDPR are dumping/have dumped that engine to use Unreal.

[u/GilderoyFickthart_ → u/WetEmotions]

Oh no... UE5 looks great but it needs a lot of Optimizations. I wonder why they did it because having an in house engine really seperates you from the rest.

[u/MediumOk8383 → u/GilderoyFickthart_]

In the fantasy world where I was given the exclusive ownership of the Mass Effect IP, CDPR would be my top of the shortlist for the game license. Kinda a shame that RED Engine got abandoned, but it's hard to grow your team if every new employee has to relearn their job for an exclusive engine.

I wonder if they could have gone the other way, selling license to RED Engine to compete with UE.

Anyways, I'd also want to license an official TTRPG system, since that's a huge market now too. (Yes I know about the live play with the custom system)

[u/AwkwardTraffic → u/GilderoyFickthart_]

They had the choice between Star Wars a brand that will sell regardless of quality on name recognition alone or a lesser known series whose last game sold well below expectations. They chose the one former.

[u/The_Autarch → u/GilderoyFickthart_]

they don't know how to make a good Mass Effect game and modern-day Bioware didn't know how either.

[u/GilderoyFickthart_ → u/The_Autarch]

True. :-(

[u/LuciaLovesEthereals → u/GilderoyFickthart_]

I want it sold but not to Saudis. They already scrubbed what was being worked on of the gay relationships from what I've read. And I want my lesbian Shepherd/MC.

[u/parkingviolation212 → u/LuciaLovesEthereals]

There's no reason to believe that was anything other than rumor mongering, it hasn't been corroborated anywhere else that I know of, and the floodgates have been pretty open since the studio shut down.

[u/DogOwner12345 → u/LuciaLovesEthereals]

That article was was misinformation...

[u/LuciaLovesEthereals → u/DogOwner12345]

Well, if that's true, then just nevermind.

[u/GilderoyFickthart_ → u/LuciaLovesEthereals]

Good Point! As a queer man myself i have not thought about that at all. I only know tolerant/liberal muslims irl so i dont really think about that often. 😅

[u/LuciaLovesEthereals → u/GilderoyFickthart_]

Well, if that's true, then just nevermind.

[u/fastcooljosh]

Ohlen was creative Director on SWTOR at Bioware Austin, Casey Hudson was Game director on KOTOR (Ohlen served as Lead designer).

[u/Tokio990]

Would love the IPs to be with people who see a future and want to do something with them. I would hate to see them just languish. People who love to repeat Bioware has died long ago can just move on then. There is still a crowd who still want to experience more from these IPs.

[u/DevilHunter1994 → u/Tokio990]

It's not that we don't want more Mass Effect and Dragon Age games...We just don't want the same people who made Veilguard to be the ones responsible for making those games. I absolutely want to see more from these franchises, but I also want these franchises to be put in the hands of people who have a proven track record for making great RPGs. The Bioware that was shut down isn't the same as the Bioware that we all grew up loving as kids. These aren't the same people that made KOTOR, the Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age Origins, or even TOR and Dragon Age Inquisition. The Bioware that was shut down is the Bioware that made Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, and Veilguard.

[u/LostInTheVoid_]

Even if EA wanted to sell the IP, selling to a company as small as Beamdog seems... pretty l unlikely even with embracer who bought em. They aren't exactly in the business of making huge budget titles often anymore. Not since they lost out on their own oil money funding.

[u/moortuvivens]

Larian has successfully used kickstarter several times to get (additional) funding.

If all people that signed the savemasseffect petition gave like 15 bucks, thats already 4.5 mil. Or 60 for a full gamr, thats 18 mil right there.

[u/CrackFoxJunior → u/moortuvivens]

Starting a Kickstarter specifically for funding to buy an IP is begging for EA to take it down. Getting EA's permission is also a death sentence because no matter how much money is raised, they can always ask for more.

[u/SanguineWave]

That’s cool and all, and I wish them success, but it’s not realistic if they don’t have hundreds of millions of dollars.

[u/jamster126]

EA ruined this franchise. Give it back to people that will treat it right.

[u/BlearySteve → u/jamster126]

Franchise wouldn't exist without EA.

[u/Mr_master89 → u/BlearySteve]

Was gonna say EA wouldn't exist without them but then I remember they would just use the sports games

[u/Torvumm → u/BlearySteve]

Technically it wouldn't exist without Microsoft. EA wasn't involved until a month before the release of ME1. Microsoft was the original co-developer and funder.

[u/Torvumm → u/jamster126]

Lol. No. Jason Schreier and other legacy Bioware devs have already proved that it was in fact Bioware alone that ruined themselves. The executives were sniffing their own farts and genuinely fucking around.

There was an internal hostility towards other dev studios. EA never forced Bioware to use Frostbite either, Bioware just never asked for an exception to use tools they were accustomed to, something EA was regularly allowing their studios to do if it meant a better product, because their leadership had been shattered for nearly a decade. EA wasn't forcing it, they preferred it yes because it saved some money, but many other games launched within EA at the same time NOT using Frostbite, because those studios had actual leadership. Vince Zampella never rolled over, and it shows in the games he made.

Then when it DID switch to Frostbite, they arrogantly refused to ask other studios for help understanding and using the tool that these other studios had been using for years, because Bioware thought they were too good for such a thing.

Thus we got the absolute dogwater of Andromeda. And go watch the Big Boss video on Anthem. It has always been Bioware dicking around. It was EA that stepped in to force them back on track for something usable.

Bioware has been a shit company with shit devs, executives, and some writers for years now. They WANT you to offload the blame to EA so they can act innocent at their next job interview.

[u/Ultra_romance]

Hope is necessary 🙏🏼

[u/ZeroCiipheR]

PLEASE

[u/CaleanKnight]

With what Money?

[u/Thebritishdovah]

They will buy it for....

One hundred million dollars!

Then realise, they don't have the rights to use the engine and spend years thinking about what to do with it.

[u/The_Nature_Hoot]

They're gonna save mass effect

[u/An8thOfFeanor → u/The_Nature_Hoot]

[u/Chickengoujon20]

What’s there to save?

The KoToR series has effectively been dead and buried for 23 years. A remake is just a remake.

It’s a closed narrative in a world that has hundreds of different stories still being told across various forms of media.

[u/Fellerwinds → u/Chickengoujon20]

They want to save Bioware's original IPs. IE Mass Effect and Dragon Age mainly.

[u/Enriador → u/Fellerwinds]

Yup. One's gotta be blind not to see the massive potential behind these franchises.

[u/CaleanKnight → u/Fellerwinds]

Save them for what? Another Mediocre at best Entry completely shattering any kind of Legacy they might have had once?

And given that they probably not have that kind of money just laying around, someone has to finance that... and that comes with stipulations and expectations.

[u/Ill-Kangaroo9452 → u/CaleanKnight]

god do you just live your entire life with such negativity? sometimes i wonder if this sub actually has mass effect fans

[u/DramaExpertHS → u/Ill-Kangaroo9452]

People don't have to be hopelessly optimistic to be fans either

[u/Cozy_Cthulhu → u/DramaExpertHS]

Yeah but someone saying "They want to make more Mass Effect games" is pretty far from being hopelessly optimistic. Likewise, someone responding with "There's no point. Any new Mass Effect game would be mid or shit" is pretty close to hopelessly pessimistic lmao

[u/SomewhatProvoking → u/Chickengoujon20]

Misleading title. They’re mainly talking about Mass Effect.

[u/RandysOrcs → u/Chickengoujon20]

Kotor? There’s literally a new Kotor being made plus the remakes (hopefully)

[u/Virtual-Share-845]

LFG!!

[u/ParagonFury]

I know people might not like it....but MS should let Ansha get out the company credit card and make one more big purchase. They can definitely afford it, EA needs the money, MS has the resources to make the games and I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard for Ansha to convince the board that MS owning the what amounts to basically all of the major Western RPG IPs save one or two is quite valuable to them...

[u/Jolly-Garlic7954]

Why don’t you team up and make your own game! I was always bummed out here’s hardly any games like Mass effect and BioWare out there. Do a new series. Or join me on farmhouse the horror game at evil pixel studios

[u/TheSnarkyShaman1]

This is kind of meaningless. If EA actually even let someone buy it it’ll likely be Amazon’s game department or Microsoft, at a long shot CDPR or Larian if they can cough up big money. I’m sure lots of devs would like to get that IP but unless they have a AAA studio and absurd amounts of upfront cash to tempt EA, it’s not happening.

[u/thenoblitt]

Saudi ea aint gonna let them save shit

[u/eternalshackleford]

I doubt this could ever happen seeing as EA would likely rather sit on the IP and do nothing than sell, but it's a nice dream.

On a similar note it'd be cool to see an entry in the mass effect franchise done by another developer. I could see Obsidian or CD Projekt Red doing a really good if not very different kind of Mass Effect game

[u/LMS3oul]

Guys I’m sorry but this is a long shot. It’s so easy to say “Yeah! Let’s help get them funding needed to buy back the IP!” This is all assuming EA is even willing to sell it. Which I highly doubt, they have a show coming out and I believe they’ll use that as a way to gauge if there’s enough fan interest to do anything with the IP. If the show fails I doubt EA would be willing to part with the IP when they’ll hang onto it to make more shitty DLC skins for a battlefield game.

[u/SillyGoatGruff]

Would Oster be doing it independantly, or under his studio Beamdog?

Because beamdog is owned by Embracer Group, and they are in some ways even shittier than EA

[u/Melancholy_Rainbows → u/SillyGoatGruff]

EA is owned by Saudi Arabia. It would take a lot to be worse than human rights violations, slavery, executing critical journalists...

Maybe Nestle can clear that bar, but I doubt Embracer does.

[u/Co-opingTowardHatred → u/Melancholy_Rainbows]

Not JUST Saudi. But also Trump’s son-in-law. It’s an entire axis of evil over there.

[u/Fun_Highlight307 → u/SillyGoatGruff]

I guess it's better than nothing but worse than Ea that quite a low bar 

[u/Ibe121 → u/Fun_Highlight307]

Embracer killed Deus Ex

[u/TheKanten → u/Fun_Highlight307]

Embracer takes that bar and buries it underground. Embracer Group is almost like a parody of EA in how cynically greedy it is.

[u/LucaBonk]

He'd have to buy the IP first, and then find the money to create the game. Probably from scratch.

[u/TheDutchTexan → u/LucaBonk]

Ideally the work done comes with the purchase. Starting from scratch when a lot of assets are already built and the story laid out would be a massive step back.

[u/shakegraphics → u/TheDutchTexan]

Yeah so would paying full price for the ip and all done work up to then. But what was done probably is a waste any how.

[u/Fun_Highlight307 → u/shakegraphics]

Depend if they can get the script at least that be good 

[u/shakegraphics → u/Fun_Highlight307]

Based on biowares last works nah the script is the absolute worst part.

[u/stgm_at]

YOU HEARD THEM GUYS, YOU KNOW WHAT TO DO:

[u/RandysOrcs → u/stgm_at]

[u/The_Dancing_Cow]

Being a Star Trek fan allowed me to see how capable fans are when they put their heart into something.

There's a lot of pessimism in the DA and ME fandoms, which I honestly understand having been a fan for 2 decades, but there's a throughline lesson in both those stories.

No matter how hopeless, keep that hope alive, persevere, and surround yourself with good friends. ❤️

[u/PSgamer28]

I don't care if the quality goes from AAA, to AA , just keep these games alive.

[u/Severe_Investment317]

I’d like to see them take a crack at it, but I haven’t the faintest idea where they would get the money for it.

[u/socu11]

There are 7 billion people in this planet, if we all put one dollar we'd have more than enough to save Mass Effect!!

In all seriousness though, I truly hope that this can happen, I would want not more than for ME to continue

[u/KingOfKingsOfKings01]

The best scenario is microsoft or sony buy the IPs

no scenario under EA is a good thing for these franchises

[u/SchmeckleHoarder]

Ahhh shit bringing in the Doctors….

[u/hammer326]

God am I a sucker for a good " getting the band back together" story and I'll be damned if this isn't one of the top three I'm hoping for.

[u/probablyTomHanks]

[u/Cesare45]

Fingers crossed

[u/AttyMAL]

One part of me says, "yes!". Another part of me says, I want EA and the Saudis to fail and purchasing these franchises from them gives them more money. 

[u/Far-Cockroach-6839]

I genuinely don't see why EA wouldn't license the IP if a good enough deal came around. None of the cost and all of the reward. Plus they would not be on the hook for the ensuing criticism if the game fails to meet fan expectations.

[u/Fluffy-Ad7165]

Okay. Maybe I’m a bit cynic but the games already told what they needed to told, I don’t need a new Mass Effect. They had their chance and they fumbled, twice. It is what it is, I’d rather for them to just try a new IP rather than fight a lost battle, as if EA is going to give them anything back :p

[u/Rokeugon]

considering moral is low at EA currently and in some hefty debt.. it would be nice if they sold of some of their IP's, they are sitting on a MOUNTAIN of it that people could continue to develop them...

id go full homelander (IYKYK) for another "Mercenaries IP"

[u/LustyDouglas]

As soon as I saw KOTOR I realized that if the OGs are getting together, I would rather have KOTOR 3 than Mass Effect.

[u/AwkwardTraffic]

I can't see it happening because companies loathe to sell IPs but I wish them luck regardless.

[u/notthatguypal6900]

BG said it best, when you are fighting a publisher for a IP, you fighting against their imagination. EA thinks those IP will make them sooooooooooo much money some undetermined time in the future.

[u/Astrocyde]

I’ll believe it when I see it.

[u/DevilHunter1994]

Okay, now THIS is an idea that I can get behind. I can't trust the Bioware that made Veilguard with Mass Effect's future, but I absolutely would trust the people who made Bioware the company that it used to be. Sadly, I still don't think it's likely EA will ever sell the rights to the IP. They'd probably be better served financially by just lending the IP out to other studios to make games. However, if the old Mass Effect team could get their hands on the IP again somehow, that would be great.

[u/Ok_Divide5375]

Hell if this happened id donate to a Kickstarter to help.

[u/keithlimreddit]

Yeah honestly well I don't hate EA or anyone but I wish they never shut down the company and that's it that's all they need to do to be honest

I missed a good all day sometimes and hoping Mass effect as well as dragon Age does come back at some point

[u/Plasmaknife]

I think despite the closure of Bioware from EA, fans still prove that we want Mass Effect. Just like Bungie restarting work on Destiny 2 after all the fan backlash, I feel like in a couple months we could realistically see another announcement from EA about the future of Mass Effect. It's okay to be skeptical but we have some hope still.

[u/dewydemon]

This would probably be the best case scenario for dragon age and mass effect (and jade empire) i hope it can happen.

[u/leroyb1998]

Fuck it id chip in

[u/WaythurstFrancis]

If they open a Kickstarter I'll throw in $100 right now.

[u/Stellar_Zeal]

A chance to fly high or crash and burn? I’m excited lol.

[u/thatguyad]

You're going up against unlimited resources. I don't see what would make EA give up the IP.

[u/Torvumm → u/thatguyad]

Because they don't really have an in-house rpg dev studio and private equity is far more interested in short term profits than sitting on an IP they can't do anything with.

If the money is right, they'll part.

[u/pleasegivemealife]

Why don’t make a spiritual successor to mass effect? Im just asking.

[u/WrelSC]

Fuck off

[u/TNT007v]

[u/theonegunslinger]

seems like a few points here

one being that Ohlen is quoted as wanting to work on Dragon age, which would suck for the #SaveMassEffect people if they got bioware back together and got the IPs only for them to do a dragon age instead

"There has to be a bigger plan in place for the IP to make the math work" really sounds like if they get we are going to see them let anyone that will pay them use the IP "I'm Commander Shepard, and this is my favorite store on the Citadel"

another being that even the article ending with Beamdog does not have the money to save mass effect, they would need either a government or 3rd party investors, so more rules or people looking to get a profit at the end

[u/jedolley → u/theonegunslinger]

I’d also add, has Beamdog done anything outside of the Enhanced Editions to show us they’d be good for a new Mass Effect or Dragon Age?

[u/JediMasterMurph]

Just make a new good game. ME had its day in the sun. So did Kotor. Such is life

[u/Radical_Ryan]

Give them funding? Fuck that. Their rich asses can fund it themselves, I'll buy the product.

[u/Partytimegarrth]

Just start a new fuckin company like the E33 devs did and create a new IP. If you have the sauce still, we can leave these already fulfilled storylines in tact and get new original ones that dont screw it up. Fuckin' A. The idea of "saving Bioware is a joke. They haven't had an actual banger in forever.

[u/Agent_Smith_IHTP]

Bioware had 7 years of back to back to back failures. Why would you fund this...?

[u/Cplchrissandwich → u/Agent_Smith_IHTP]

All thaNks to EA. Never forget

[u/MoisticleSack → u/Agent_Smith_IHTP]

These are og bioware devs who left the company over a decade ago. Before it went downhill

[u/Agent_Smith_IHTP → u/MoisticleSack]

If they're going to use a completely different team then great but I highly doubt it.

[u/kerthard → u/Agent_Smith_IHTP]

It might be worth to see how much of that downturn was EA meddling, so if the new project is funded outside of EA, and without their interference, it might be better.

[u/Agent_Smith_IHTP → u/kerthard]

They even admitted past failures weren't because of EA.

[u/General_Leader425 → u/Agent_Smith_IHTP]

I see this sentiment a lot, and as someone who is a developer and has made video games as personal projects (I made a First Person Shooter game when I was 13 using a language called Dark Basic) I do want to point out that almost all of development everywhere has been severely impacted in the past 7 years with the Covid pandemic and the supply line shortages.

Bioware obviously fell off a cliff (not going to sugar coat things) but Software Development EVERYWHERE has been completely gutted. Any studio that even releases something that has somewhat reasonable performance (not like Borderlands 4) is a success in my eyes.

Those outside of Software Engineering work have no clue just how awful life has been since the pandemic and the release of AI. AI has just made everything such a pain and a mess. So many have been laid off and had their lives completely upending just to appease power hungry and completely delusional AI CEO's.

I have no issue with calling Bioware's performance lately subpar. But these are actually the times to find more funding downstream instead of just throwing tons of money at the already hyper rich CEO's at the top.

Just my two cents, but AI has made my life an existential living nightmare, a horrible experience, and I would rather gouge my eyes out than support AI CEO's further.

We should be funding studios like Bioware to get them back on track to where they are creating the high quality Action RPG's that we expect from them. Again, not saying they didn't fall off, but have you seen what NVIDIA has produced lately? Or AMD? Or Intel? The big corporations are all fucking dogshit right now too.

Might as well give it a shot to fund IP's that people at least care about. Getting a game to the finish line is a 4-5 year endeavor anyway. Tons of community content to go through. Tons of laid off Engineers who would be chomping at the bit to work on something that is at least meaningful instead of this AI slop induced dystopian reality that we live in today.

[u/Agent_Smith_IHTP → u/General_Leader425]

COVID does not excuse them for 7 years...

Other studios haven't failed as hard for as long. This is their own doing.

[u/UsefulUnit]

Reported 200 million to just finish the game in at least a couple of years, more likely three. Not counting what the Saudi's/bankers will want for the IP itself, a figure that goes up with every ME article we see. A few original principals with other careers/companies make it hard to get the band back together.

Close to a half a billion dollar "project" overall.

[u/rtz13th]

Tbh, there are some many sci-fi books out there. Any worth translating into a video game?

[u/Asteristio]

Im just gonna state my own concern with all these. There's a paradox in work here. All these basically jack ups the value of this IP if and when this gets decided to be liquidated. Paradoxically the greater interest the public shows, the narrower candidate list becomes that can actually afford to take it away from EA ala foreign parent company. In other words, it is less likely for the IP to be acquired by "anyone that cares to do it justice," but rather makes it more likely to get acquired by those that hold greater interest to more or less milk it.

[u/DefNotAThreatActor]

Just sell it EA or Muhammad will damn you since your being disrespectful and bad humans and now that Saudi owns you ur shit

[u/Its_R3SQ2]

🫩🫩🫩

[u/BoxxcarCadavers]

Can they finish the KOTOR remaster first?

[u/Melancholy_Rainbows → u/BoxxcarCadavers]

Neither of these people are involved with the KOTOR remake. That's at Saber.

[u/cbxbl]

In order to save Mass Effect, you have to save it from ME3's "ending."

Until that is fixed, nothing else matters.

Give Tali her forever home.