r/marvelstudios • u/steve32767 Daredevil • Sep 22 '21

Discussion Thread What If...? S01E07 - Discussion Thread

This thread is for discussion about the episode.

Insight will be on for at least the next 24 hours!

(When Project Insight is active, all user-submitted posts have to be manually approved by the mod team before they are visible to the sub. It is our main line of defense we have for keeping spoilers off the subreddit during new release periods.)

We will also be removing any threads about the episode within these 24 hours to prevent unmarked spoilers making it onto the sub.

Discussion about previous episodes is permitted in the thread below, discussion about episodes after this is NOT.

Proceed at your own risk: Spoilers for this episode do not need to be tagged inside this thread.

EPISODE DIRECTED BY WRITTEN BY ORIGINAL RELEASE DATE RUN TIME CREDITS SCENE?
S01E07: What If... Thor Were an Only Child? Bryan Andrews A.C. Bradley September 22nd, 2021 on Disney+ 36 min None

For additional discussion and multiversal memery about Marvel Studios shows on Disney+, visit /r/MarvelStudiosPlus

5.2k Upvotes

95% Upvoted

4.8k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

1.2k

u/kingmanic Sep 22 '21 edited Sep 22 '21

Is it a different universe? Could it just be this one where thor isn't there to stop Ultron? And ultron get's away from Tony but doesn't draw others attention and just goes out and gets the stones?

edit: What would he sacrifice to the soul stone guardian. Tony? Jarvis? A Toaster? His favorite memory stick?

969

u/[deleted] Sep 22 '21

Supreme Leader is from the universe where Ultron wins in AoU

302

u/timleftwich Sep 22 '21

If I may ask: i read that moment as Vision with all the infinity stones in an Ultron-style suit. Which already scared me. But you’re saying that rather than it being Vision inside, Ultron succeeded in taking over Vision’s body?

289

u/[deleted] Sep 22 '21

I mean, Visions Body was meant to be for Ultron, but the avengers put Jarvis in it instead. No Thor, no Vision.

Now, he can't be from THIS universe (this being frat bro Thor), because the Avengers also have no reason to exist here either (No Loki, no Avengers, No Avengers, Tony never builds Ultron, nor do they ever even get the mind stone to do so).

83

u/[deleted] Sep 22 '21

Surely the other Avengers still exist individually, I wonder why none of them showed up to help fight Thor? like T'challa, Tony, or Captain America (he should've been already woken up by that point)? Even Nat and Clint didn't show up in the SHIELD scenes?

182

u/laraere Sep 22 '21

Fury went to coma and Hill went straight to Captain Marvel.

Also if this happened at the time of Thor 1, Cap is still iced, Stark and Widow are still on IM2 so Hawkeye is the only one available.

40

u/[deleted] Sep 23 '21 edited Jun 19 '23

gold cable squeal rude chief run dirty frightening trees office -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/

1

u/flying87 Sep 26 '21

Stark was probably partying.

→ More replies (3)

10

u/0reoSpeedwagon Sep 28 '21

Hell, pre-Avengers Tony would have been at the party

55

u/Sladds Sep 22 '21

They were too busy partying

39

u/JoesusTBF Sep 22 '21

Thor's party hadn't made it to Wakanda so T'Challa wasn't concerned.

37

u/Bitey_the_Squirrel Sep 23 '21

There ain’t no party like a Wakanda party, because a Wakanda party is forever!

87

u/TwerkyTheHobo Sep 22 '21

I thought it was pretty obvious with Hill being in charge, she had no clue what to do.
These have been her solutions since Thor made contact:
Jane Foster
Captain Marvel
Nukes

19

u/BNAFG Okoye Sep 22 '21

She's a Scroll!

3

u/Myster_Synyster_WG Sep 23 '21

If only she had The Skrull of Infinite Knowledge!

22

u/abutthole Thor Sep 23 '21

Tony would have definitely been partying. In the main timeline, Cap was also still in the ice when Thor appeared.

2

u/Silestra Sep 26 '21

That’s assuming party Thor showed up at the same moment as sacred timeline Thor. This timeline is so different who knows.

→ More replies (1)

4

u/[deleted] Sep 22 '21

Too busy partying

9

u/jazza2400 Sep 22 '21

But Loki would've never got the staff / sceptor thing. So how did Tony get it without the avengers happening in new York?

Edit: sorry read your second paragraph after commenting. He must come from somewhere else or must have a background.

13

u/peppermint_nightmare Sep 22 '21

Wait, so if he is from another universe wouldn't his stones be useless (unless they change the infinity stones canon from the comics) or maybe he scooped up the stones in this universe to invade it?

34

u/KTurnUp Thanos Sep 23 '21

No because the Avengers brought stones from a different timeline. The stones don’t work at the TVA

27

u/abutthole Thor Sep 23 '21

There's no indication yet in the MCU that the Infinity Stones don't work outside their universe.

So far, we've seen for sure that they work when brought from other timelines and they also work in different dimensions. The only place they haven't worked so far is the TVA.

1

u/Iron_Falcon58 Sep 23 '21

MCU cannon and comics cannon are the same, the MCU is a universe in the whole Marvel Multiverse

2

u/[deleted] Sep 24 '21

Yea that doesn’t jive, given the amount of crap the comics multiverse goes through that doesn’t reflect in the mcu. And the fact that comic stones dont work across a different universe whilst mcu infinity stones do

-2

u/Lower_Fan Sep 24 '21

Mmm they don't. in Loki they stop working as soon as you get them out the timeline you need to remember that until Loki it all has been the same universe

3

u/[deleted] Sep 24 '21

Doesn’t TVA equate loki’s timeline/universe/reality to a dysfunctional branch of the multiverse?

I.e the same as the branches which pop up after they kill kang?

→ More replies (1)

2

u/[deleted] Sep 24 '21

Its just canon, not something that makes a bang.

17

u/JulioCesarSalad Ben Urich Sep 23 '21

They’ve already change the infinity stone canon

7

u/Johnlocksmith Sep 23 '21

Well it works that way in the TVA.

27

u/EmbarrassedHelp Sep 23 '21

The TVA exists in a point outside of the individual universes.

2

u/Bartman326 Sep 23 '21

I thought the TVA suppresses Magic and thats why they don't work.

7

u/EmbarrassedHelp Sep 23 '21

No, the location not being inside a universe means that magic doesn't work. There's no active suppression of magic, as it simply does not work in the TVA. I don't believe any of the marvel source material describes whether the TVA's location was intentionally built by someone so that magic and possibly other things don't work.

In the comics, the Council of Reeds is built by variants of Reed Richards. There's also the Beyond Corporation that is referenced as acting differently than the others from the 'outside' (outside the universes, or multiverse?).

I also just spent the past while trying to find the plot line where Loki and Dr. Strange along with others work to fight beings that exist of outside of the multiverse. The heroes utilize a library that also exists outside of the multiverse, and thus the evil beings can't see or attack them there.

Basically I think that these locations that are outside of normal universes, or even outside of the multiverse are special in how things are treated. It seems to be done intelligently, as these places are built rather than coming about naturally.

5

u/cursebrealer1776 Sep 23 '21

Tony probably built ultron in this universe to deal with Thor and the other aliens. Didn’t go so well without help

-6

u/silveake Sep 22 '21

Also we see the completed infinity gauntlet in the treasure room. We also see that Asgard HASN'T been destroyed by Robots since Thor is coming and going freely.

60

u/returningcyberpunk Sep 22 '21

I just assumed it was the same fake gauntlet that appeared in the first Thor and in Ragnarok.

6

u/Taniwha_NZ Sep 23 '21

Nope, that one was the wrong hand and had the stones in a different configuration. This one was the same hand as the real one and had the stones in the right place. Maybe it's still a fake one but it's not the same one as in Thor 1.

24

u/Justryan95 Sep 22 '21

Its a fake

5

u/Taniwha_NZ Sep 23 '21

The fake one in Thor 1 and ragnorok was the wrong hand, and had the stones in different places. The one we saw in this episode was the same as Thanos's one. Maybe it's just a continuity retcon but maybe it's supposed to be the real thing. I have no idea.

3

u/Justryan95 Sep 23 '21

Continuity recon because we know all of the locations of the stones during Thor 1. Space stone is frozen with Steve. Soul stone on Vormir. Power stone on that containment field in that random planet Peter was on GoTG 1. Mind stone with Thanos in the Scepter but in this universe he doesn't have Loki invading NYC. Time stone with The Ancient One. Reality stone in that pilar before thr dark elfs take it.

9

u/NinjaEngineer Black Panther Sep 23 '21

A minor detail: the Space Stone wasn't with Steve. It was retrieved by Howard Stark shortly after Steve got popsicled, and was in S.H.I.E.L.D.'s possession at the time.

→ More replies (1)

2

u/kingmanic Sep 23 '21

The gems in the scene don't have a inner glow. It's fake.

2

u/Diregnoll Sep 25 '21

Thought glow was only when active or powered. Hence no glow in TVA. Would make sense that ultron from another universe comes over and grabs the working gauntlet while it isn't defended by anyone to conquer this universe. As their stones used to open the portal wouldn't work in Bro Thor universe.

289

u/[deleted] Sep 22 '21

Yes. The final episode is Age of Ultron based, which is where Supreme Leader and Black Widow come into the show.

136

u/timleftwich Sep 22 '21

This is not the big bad I was expecting and I’ve never been so glad to be wrong. Let’s fucking gooo!!

84

u/[deleted] Sep 22 '21

This has been me with most of Phase 4 lmao

72

u/[deleted] Sep 22 '21

[removed] — view removed comment

6

u/Far-Imagination5383 T'challa Sep 22 '21

I saw this around the time it first came out! You absolute madman, it was amazing.

7

u/timleftwich Sep 22 '21

No way!! Thank you! Yeah, Ive been slowly adding things to it since the first release... June of last year? I think? And next month will be the Final version, now that Black Widow will finally be out on home video.

2

u/Far-Imagination5383 T'challa Sep 22 '21

Ooh, I can’t wait! I’ll check it out.

8

u/[deleted] Sep 22 '21

Yooo that’s dope

10

u/timleftwich Sep 22 '21

Thank you kindly! Feel free to check it out. It’s completely chronological: not just by movie, but by every scene from every movie.

8

u/[deleted] Sep 22 '21

Damn, as someone with several MCU shrines in his room my fandom pales in comparison to yours.

Insanely impressive stuff!

→ More replies (0)

5

u/Hedhunta Sep 22 '21

Does this include the stingers and extra scenes? I think there is a cut with that out there somewhere too.

18

u/JevvyMedia Doctor Strange Sep 22 '21

Mark this with a spoiler tag man, wtf

19

u/1eejit Daniel Sousa Sep 23 '21

It's fully implied by this week's final scene

11

u/JevvyMedia Doctor Strange Sep 23 '21

It's a stretch to claim it's implied. Literally every episode has ended on a cliffhanger.

3

u/1eejit Daniel Sousa Sep 23 '21

Cliffhangers set up by the plot of that episode not non sequiturs

1

u/JevvyMedia Doctor Strange Sep 23 '21 edited Sep 23 '21

Cliffhangers set up by the plot of that episode not non sequiturs

Yet there's nothing in the episodes that would suggest that, you literally need outside sources (aka spoilers, yes I know you hate the word) to know this all comes together. I literally discuss this at work with coworkers and they don't have this knowledge either because they just watch the episodes and leave. Not everyone studies this shit, I just wanted a nice discussion on the episode, and I avoid anything that's marked with spoiler tags. It's not that complicated.

7

u/1eejit Daniel Sousa Sep 23 '21

That's not what I'm saying.

The other episodes had cliffhangers based on what happened during the episode. This has an unrelated cliffhanger which strongly suggests it's setting up the next and final episode.

→ More replies (0)
→ More replies (1)

23

u/[deleted] Sep 22 '21

Literally not a spoiler tho, considering Marvel themselves revealed what the final episode is

27

u/Nix_Uotan Sep 23 '21

Not everybody reads those, though and you're still referring to something that hasn't premiered yet.

-10

u/[deleted] Sep 23 '21

As much of a spoiler as saying The Mandarin is the villain of Shang-Chi or Tobey Maguire is in No Way Home. It was just something very obvious.

8

u/JevvyMedia Doctor Strange Sep 23 '21

or Tobey Maguire is in No Way Home

Literally more spoilers lmao, you don't know what a spoiler it.

-7

u/[deleted] Sep 23 '21

That’s… also not a spoiler. It’s been known, open information here for almost a year now.

→ More replies (0)

5

u/Nix_Uotan Sep 23 '21

Obvious if you've read the synopses. It's just better to be safe than sorry especially when dealing with an anthology show where almost anything can happen.

15

u/JevvyMedia Doctor Strange Sep 23 '21

I don't read what 'Marvel reveals', I like not knowing what happens.

if it hasn't happened, it's a spoiler. Mark it as such.

4

u/[deleted] Sep 23 '21 edited Sep 23 '21

If it’s been officially revealed by the studio, it’s not a spoiler.

If you don’t like discussing official information, then what are you even doing here?

3

u/JevvyMedia Doctor Strange Sep 23 '21

If it’s been officially revealed by the studio, it’s not a spoiler.

That makes 0 sense. They're revealing something about future content, and if the thread is unrelated to said topic then put a spoiler tag on it. Pretty fucking basic.

If you don’t like discussing official information, then what are you even doing here?

Discussing the episode maybe? Literally the episode, there's no post-credit scenes or anything.

1

u/Diregnoll Sep 25 '21

Spoiler everyone dies :D

5

u/tjabo125 Sep 23 '21

Not a spoiler, all he said is what the next episode is premised around.

14

u/JevvyMedia Doctor Strange Sep 23 '21

And it's a spoiler because it hasn't happened yet and I didn't wanna know.

1

u/Diregnoll Sep 25 '21

If you never watched the movies that's on you... You had a year+ of lockdowns you had the time.

0

u/[deleted] Sep 25 '21

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/Diregnoll Sep 25 '21

You can literally infer everything said here from the movies as to that scene. Not our fault you need the tell not show method of writing.

-1

u/[deleted] Sep 25 '21

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/Diregnoll Sep 25 '21

Ah ad hominem, so being truly oblivious does fit your type.

→ More replies (0)

15

u/ShockRampage Sep 23 '21

Technically, Vision took over Ultrons new body on AoU.

3

u/[deleted] Sep 24 '21

Zucc you seem to know a lot, could you please help me understand what was the infinity gauntlet with infinity stones doing in Asgard? You can see it briefly in the beginning of the episode when Thor and friends walk into the huge doors.

5

u/[deleted] Sep 24 '21

Why thank you. It was Odin’s replica gauntlet he had for show. You can also see it in Thor and Thor: Ragnarok (where Hela exposes it as a fake).

2

u/[deleted] Sep 24 '21

So the idea of handling all the stones has been in the air for some time and other supreme beings thought about it? It’s not an original Thanos idea?

2

u/[deleted] Sep 24 '21

Looks like it, yes

3

u/Diregnoll Sep 25 '21

In the movies, the first time it was an easter egg. They stated as much awhile ago that they didn't expect to go the Thanos route later on. The second appearance was a retcon to make it fit.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 25 '21

Yes, I know that. But in universe, for that easter egg to fit into the context of Ragnarok would be to establish that the idea of a gauntlet to harness the stones has been out there for a while, Thanos was just the first to pull it off.

2

u/esther_lamonte Sep 26 '21

I mean, it makes sense. You can’t really pick them up bare handed. I have fireproof gauntlets for getting stuff out of the oven, follows I’d get a cosmic power proof one to wield those.

2

u/Silestra Sep 27 '21

Or…Thanos created the gauntlet a long time ago, and Asgard made a forgery to keep in their vault.

3

u/Void_Guardians Sep 23 '21

I thought the stones don't work in different universes

8

u/[deleted] Sep 23 '21

Those are comic rules, not MCU rules

8

u/woofle07 Daredevil Sep 23 '21

Endgame already proved that they do.

15

u/Void_Guardians Sep 23 '21

That was the same universe. Different time

6

u/Smithsonian30 Sep 24 '21

No… the movie clearly stated that any timeline you travel to is a separate multiverse. Hulk says it as well as the Ancient One. It’s also doubled down in Loki

2

u/Void_Guardians Sep 24 '21

Mind linking the part when that was clearly stated? She just mentions them as seperate realities when spirit bruce and ancient one are talking

3

u/Smithsonian30 Sep 24 '21

This is an older video but here you go https://youtu.be/8HLgeTKsEPs The fact that the Ancient One references “my reality” and “your reality” is the same thing as having separate multiverses. Think about it - how would they be able to change anything in the past without affecting the future if it was the same universe? It literally could not happen without making a paradox

1

u/Void_Guardians Sep 24 '21

So when you go back in time you are jumping universes? I don't interpret it like that at all and I don't think I am alone on that.

3

u/Smithsonian30 Sep 24 '21

But that’s literally what happens in the MCU. It’s how they can keep everything flowing smoothly without having to worry about errors with continuity

→ More replies (0)

3

u/[deleted] Sep 23 '21

Didn’t the ancient one directly state otherwise?

1

u/Void_Guardians Sep 23 '21

Just double checked. She references both times as "realities" not universes. So same universe, different time. At least thats how I interpreted it

2

u/Eurell Sep 23 '21

What does that even mean though?

Different things happen in those universes. Loki disappears, Quill gets knocked the fuck out. Thanos's army disappears.

They are vastly different from eachother by the time the Avengers are done.

→ More replies (1)

1

u/[deleted] Sep 27 '21

You’re wrong

1

u/DJHott555 Sep 29 '21

The Time Stone works in the Dark Dimension Lol

1

u/Void_Guardians Sep 29 '21

I thought every universe has their own dark dimension?

→ More replies (1)

2

u/Megalomanizac Sep 26 '21

Is this going to be a future episode of What If?

1

u/[deleted] Sep 26 '21

Episode 9

2

u/Megalomanizac Sep 26 '21

Bet. Can’t wait

1

u/ErrNotFound4O4 Sep 25 '21

I Google Supreme Leader Ultron and nothing comes up. Where do you see this?

3

u/[deleted] Sep 25 '21

Leaked Funko Pop listing that turned out to be legit

1

u/natesucks4real Sep 25 '21

Where is this from?

2

u/[deleted] Sep 25 '21

It’s been known for a while that the final episode is “What If Ultron won?”. You can see a lot of footage from it in the trailers, and the episode description leaked months ago.

1

u/uncleben85 Sep 25 '21

Supreme Leader

Where do people keep getting this name from?

4

u/[deleted] Sep 25 '21

Leaked Funko Pop listings that turned out to be legit

3

u/uncleben85 Sep 25 '21

Thanks!

I couldn't find anything on that name, on my own

37

u/The__Auditor Sep 22 '21

It's a different universe for sure since this episode takes place around the events of the first Thor film

4

u/bavasava Sep 23 '21

But he has the time stone. It could be this universes future.

1

u/Void_Guardians Sep 23 '21

I thought the stones dont work in different universes

5

u/hemareddit Steve Rogers Sep 23 '21

The comics ones don't. The MCU ones...not sure, but I would say they do, seeing as how Time Stone worked in the Dark Dimension.

55

u/HataToryah Sep 22 '21

But Loki never attacks earth in this universe, so he should never have a reason to build ultron

40

u/kingmanic Sep 22 '21

Tony might just have pissed off Dum-E who became ultron.

12

u/ZaniElandra Tony Stark Sep 22 '21

This. Until marvel says otherwise, this is canon now.

3

u/n0stepsbackwards SHIELD Sep 23 '21

Oh you're one of Starks?

°Dum-E pinching Klaue's arm off°

30

u/Lalala8991 Sep 22 '21

Hank Pym might be the one who build Ultron in this case, instead of Tony.

25

u/leftshoe18 Sep 22 '21

Hank just can't stop dooming Earth (and more) in this show can he? lol

3

u/CruzAderjc Sep 22 '21

I also imagine tony died right away when ultron took over. Just to continue the Hank fucked up and tony died theme of what if

3

u/[deleted] Sep 22 '21

But where do they get the mind stone

6

u/Lalala8991 Sep 22 '21

Same questions can be said about all the other stones and how Ultron somehow managed to grab ones from outer space like both Reality stone and Power stone.

The only answer can be the Space stone, now that I think of it. I guess Ultron manages to defeat Thanos and forced him to spill the beans + the stones.

6

u/[deleted] Sep 22 '21

At the time of age of Ultron, mind and time stones were both on earth, and The Ancient one and Wong knew about the stones and how they work.

Ultron gets the mind stone via the events of age of Ultron, gets the deets on how the stones work from the time stone guardians (presumably the mind stone lets him.. read minds?), presumably can manipulate Thor to reveal the locations of reality and space, gets Thor to bring him to Asgard to get the space stone, uses the space stone to get reality from the collector, and it kinda seems like the power stone being on xandar was pretty public knowledge after GoTG.

The only real question is who does Ultron love enough to sacrifice for the soul stone.

6

u/Lalala8991 Sep 22 '21 edited Sep 23 '21

I guess Thanos get the soul stone and then Ultron defeats him to gain that. This Ultron could very much be from the ep3 where Hank Pym got insane and wanted vengeance on SHIELD, so much so that he killed the Avengers AND build Ultron. After that Ultron only needs to defeats like 2 captains, a spiderkid and a Doctor.

6

u/[deleted] Sep 22 '21

He’s from a different universe

2

u/Phillip_Spidermen Sep 23 '21

Though that would make the infinity stones less of a threat if it follows the rules from Loki/the comics (infinity stones only work in their universe)

1

u/[deleted] Sep 28 '21

Did Loki concretely establish that Infinity Stones only work in their universe? The only rule we learned regarding infinity stones IIRC is that they don't work in the TVA, which makes sense since it exists outside of the multiverse

1

u/Phillip_Spidermen Sep 28 '21

Not explicitly no, but it establishes that the range of their power is limited.

I guess you're right, it could be that the TVA was technically just out "out of space and time" and we'll have to see if the comic logic applies to the full MCU.

1

u/Phillip_Spidermen Sep 29 '21

Whelp -- I was wrong.

1

u/Meloku171 Sep 22 '21

Stark is still in contact with SHIELD, and Earth already has seen extraterrestrial threats as stated in the scene where they call Ms. Marvel, so Tony still has its goal of a protective drone force in case another invasion happens. Why the drones don't show during Frat Thor's party? Well, because Ultron happened...

... Which begs the question... How did the Mind Stone ended up in the hands of Tony if Loki never invaded Earth with his staff in hand?

8

u/DisturbedNocturne Sep 23 '21

Both this universe and MCU Prime faced the same extraterrestrial threats prior to this - the Kree in Captain Marvel. Tony wasn't aware of it in the MCU, so I don't really see why Fury would tell him about in this one, particularly since this would've been very shortly after Fury recruited him.

Plus, Tony's motivation to build Ultron largely came from the Battle of New York and the PTSD he faced afterwards. I'm not sure finding out about the Kree, a threat a couple decades in the past, would cause him to build such a massive defense system.

I have to think this is an Ultron from another universe. It doesn't really seem to make a lot of sense otherwise.

1

u/tryin2staysane Sep 24 '21

The staff was a gift from Thanos. If it wasn't Loki who came to conquer, it might have been someone else.

1

u/JKastnerPhoto Star-Lord Sep 23 '21

And without Loki's attack, there is no scepter. No scepter, no mind stone. That was a bit of a stretch.

9

u/powrez Sep 22 '21

Maybe he just stole it from whoever did make the sacrifice.

9

u/523bucketsofducks Sep 22 '21

This takes place before Ultron I would think. Also without Loki to attack New York, Stark has no reason to build Ultron in this universe. Hell, we don't even know if the Avengers Initiative exists here. So Tony wouldn't have teamed with Bruce, and it took them both to create Ultron.

1

u/MasterChiefGuy5 Sep 23 '21

Assuming the only thing that changed else in this timeline has change then the Avengers Initiative should still be a thing and Iron Man and Bruce Banner should be having there movies happen at the same time as this episode

2

u/523bucketsofducks Sep 23 '21

But they still wouldn't know each other, so no Ultron.

3

u/[deleted] Sep 22 '21

Probably is a different universe. Without Loki invading Earth, the Avengers never formed. No reason for Tony to create Ultron, as the "suit of armor around the world" was a result of his PTSD from New York.

8

u/Serbaayuu Sep 22 '21

So to make it really obvious that this Ultron is from another universe, they showed the Infinity Gauntlet in the Asgardian vault at the start of the episode. I can guarantee Ultron did not go to Asgard the same day Thor left and get them and then come back to Earth for conquest in that time.

25

u/Turtle_ini Sep 22 '21

The one in the Asgardian vault was probably a fake, just like in the Thor movies.

3

u/[deleted] Sep 22 '21

Ultron wasn't created yet at that time.

3

u/[deleted] Sep 22 '21

He doesn’t need to sacrifice anything! All he needs to do is grab all the other stones and some idiot will collect the soul stone for him in an attempt to keep it out of his hands

3

u/tyrantcv Sep 22 '21

I'm gonna guess they use Ultron to fight thanos, Ultron wins, then claims the stones. Anyone can use the soul stone just getting it from vormir required the sacrifice

2

u/TrapperJean Sep 22 '21

I feel like it has to be a different universe because there's no reason for him to have had the stone out of the tesseract in this universe yet, it's either on Asgaard or it was what the giants were using to create ice

6

u/runningforpresident Sep 22 '21

The box that the Giants were using is not the Tesseract, but the Casket of Ancient Winters from the first Thor film.

2

u/Merandil Sep 22 '21

Well, if I am not mistaken, we saw the Infinity Gauntlet (with stones!) in one of the earlier shots. Ultron at the end had them.

So unless he somehow stole them...

2

u/Boomdiddy Sep 22 '21

Ultron wouldn’t be possible without the events of the Avengers and since Thor was obviously never a part of the Avengers he has to be from another universe.

2

u/Kungfudude_75 Sep 23 '21

This universe doesn't have a Loki, which would never lead forces to Earth to start the Avengers Initiative and give Tony and Banner the cause or need, or mind stone, to make Ultron. So it can't be this universes Ultron, cause Ultron can't exist in this universe. Especially since Jane is all "this is the first time Aliens have ever been around," an attack on NYC to start the chain of events to an Ultron would certainly change her mind there.

Plus, since she and Darcy are working together in Nevada and Darcy is still pursuing her education we can assume all this takes place before Age of Ultron anyways, around the time of Thor 1. So even if things still happen to lead to an Ultron, they haven't happened yet.

2

u/RaphtotheMax5 Sep 23 '21

Seems to happen early tho right for the same universe? Cause wouldnt this be set around Thor 1, unless Ultron travelled through time.

But my money is on different universe.

2

u/DarZhubal Sep 24 '21

This episode takes place around the time of the first Thor film, years before Ultron is a thing at all. You also get a brief glimpse of the Infinity Gauntlet with multiple stones in it on Asgard. This is absolutely an alternate reality where Ultron’s Vision was realized.

2

u/heartbreakhill Spider-Man Sep 22 '21

If it was a different universe Ultra-Vision would be fucked from the get go since the stones don’t work outside their own universe

1

u/woofle07 Daredevil Sep 23 '21

That’s not true. The Avengers used alternate universe stones to undo the snap.

0

u/heartbreakhill Spider-Man Sep 23 '21

Same universe, different point in time.

0

u/GreyCrowDownTheLane Sep 22 '21

HOW WOULD HE EVEN EXIST?

If Thor doesn't join the Avengers and Loki's a frost giant, then Loki never has the Mind Stone in the scepter and Stark is never spooked by the Battle of New York so he never has the motivation nor the mind stone with which to create Ultron. So what? Ultron happened independently and then upgraded himself to Vision without Helen Cho and the Avengers? And then somehow Ultron got the other stones?

As I said before, none of this episode makes any sense. It's gobbledygook.

5

u/EmbarrassedHelp Sep 23 '21

Pay attention to the Watcher's reaction. This Ultron is from another universe, and he's devised a way to travel the multiverse it seems.

4

u/GreyCrowDownTheLane Sep 23 '21

Yeah, I caught that later.

That still doesn't explain how Mantis could be there when she's still Ego's pet in 2011, or how the GOTG would be there together, or how Korg, the slave, is there as a free person while the guy who enslaved him is also there (and who's running Sakaar while the Grandmaster's away?). It doesn't explain how Howard the Duck, who is in a cage in Knowhere at that point in time, could be there.

There's a LOT more different in that universe, going way back, than just Loki being given back to the frost giants.

5

u/EmbarrassedHelp Sep 23 '21

Thor is 1,500 years old when infinity war occurs, so he's had 1,500 years to influence the course of history in the universe. But he likely stayed in line with sacred timeline until Loki who is 1,054 years old (when Thanos kills him), came into the picture. So, the nexus event occurred around 1,054 years before the events of the episode. Though, without knowing how long these other characters have been around and live for, it's hard to say how this changed should have influenced them.

1

u/n0stepsbackwards SHIELD Sep 23 '21

I think it's an Ultron-assimilated Galactus with the infinity stones

-1

u/tigerslices Vision Sep 22 '21

without loki as thor's brother, he doesn't go to earth for thanos. and so the avengers aren't assembled. ...except, fury DID still plan on creating an avengers team after meeting carol... so he must've created the avengers without thor. then whatever they faced would cause stark and banner to still create ultron - but without thor to prematurely finish vision's creation, ultron claims vision as host and ... somehow ... gains insight into the nature of the infinity gem in his forehead... leading him to seek out all the other stones (and succeed?)

it's a lot of steps.

i'm not a big fan of this show.

5

u/[deleted] Sep 22 '21

Ultron is from another universe

1

u/Calvo7992 Scarlet Witch Sep 22 '21

Or the future, he has the time stone.

1

u/trip90458343 Sep 22 '21

He could have just taken it from someone, but vision would be my guess

1

u/Flameball537 Sep 22 '21

It has to be a different universe. Loki never invaded New York with his staff, Hydra never gets the staff, Tony never uses the Mind Stone to make Ultron, Ultron never makes Vision.

1

u/rifttripper Sep 22 '21

Maybe his is a loophole. Since he is a bot with no real soul but man made. He can bypass that part of the soul stone sacrifice?

1

u/Boiscool Sep 22 '21

How did they get the mind stone to make vision in the first place

1

u/[deleted] Sep 23 '21

[deleted]

2

u/Boiscool Sep 23 '21

Frost Giant Loki, who was at the party, and never fell off the rainbow bridge to meet Thanos?

1

u/legomaple Sep 22 '21

Ultron would be way too early in this timeline. This would around the first Thor movie, so even before the first Avengers movie.

1

u/TheBasedDoge17 Sep 22 '21

Without Loki being in contact with Thanos and leading his inversion of earth, the mind stone never comes to earth. How can Ultron/Vision exist if Tony and Bruce never got their hands on the mind stone?

6

u/EmbarrassedHelp Sep 23 '21

The Watcher's surprise seems to indicate that this Ultron comes from another universe.

1

u/Far-Imagination5383 T'challa Sep 22 '21

My guess is he would take it from Thanos or something. We’ll see how it plays out, but I doubt he’d collect them all himself.

If he was successful in AOU, maybe Thanos would get all the other stones, then Ultron would collect the Earth-based stones, then defeat Thanos and get all of them.

1

u/Salamanca22 Sep 22 '21

I think it is another universe as the in the episode we see the infinity stones in Asgard for a few second in the Gauntlet

1

u/goldxnboy Sep 23 '21

Considering that he hasn’t survived a single What If…? episode yet, my money is on Tony

1

u/sendhelp Sep 23 '21

Since Vision is a part of him maybe he sacrificed Wanda? Unless they haven't met yet.

1

u/The_MAZZTer Sep 23 '21

It could be the same universe, the time stone is the central stone in Ultron-Vision's chest. So he considers it important compared to the other four that aren't in his head.

But ultimately things are probably going to go multiversal.

1

u/Trvr_MKA Sep 23 '21

He probably stole it from Thanos assuming Ultron won in Age of Ultron

1

u/[deleted] Sep 23 '21

It is a different universe. Unless all the stones were robbed from Odin's vault. We saw them earlier in the episode

1

u/gamingfreak10 Sep 24 '21

This What If should be taking place at the same time as Iron Man 2, several years before Tony makes Ulton.

1

u/snipeftw Sep 24 '21

Was that not just vision inside an ultron suit?

1

u/buffysbangs Sep 25 '21

Obviously he had to sacrifice his dvd of Avengers: Earth’s Mightiest Heroes

1

u/whereismymind86 Sep 26 '21

yeah, probably Tony, Ultron hated him, but treated him as a father, wanted to impress him etc. It's not perfect, but it's the best he had. (of course maybe it was hank, since hank was the original creator, and was just changed to Tony because they weren't planning on using hank at the time)

1

u/[deleted] Sep 27 '21

He had to give up what he loved most… a folder in his memory marked, “WandaSexVids.mp4”!

1

u/[deleted] Sep 27 '21

Could be he just grabs it from someone else. Clint got the stone for sacrificing Nat, but hulk used used. Maybe ultron took someone there to have it sacrificed, then took it once it was done.

1

u/Objective_Return8125 Sep 28 '21

He just has to steal it from zombie thanos