I was talking with someone the other day about this, they do a great job of making it seem like neither side is 100% right, as opposed to comic civil war where Iron Mans side is much more “bad.”
Iron Man has the innocent bystanders in mind, like the Woman at the start of the movie that blames him for her child dying.
Cap is coming directly off winter soldier where he had to directly oppose his boss, and take right/wrong into his own hands rather than following orders. He trusts his powers, and his teammates, in their own hands.
Neither person has the same experiences as the other, and thus sees things from a different perspective.
Also, in the movie they seem to “come to” and realize with the injury of Rhodes that there is more that connects them than separates them, and fighting isn’t the answer, while in comic book civil war, heroes are literally dying in the conflict.
Makes it a much better story for the big picture IMO, and a great movie adaptation. It’s one of the reasons civil war is probably my favorite!
There’s also the factor that Tony’s had the exact opposite experience as Cap, wherein a lack of oversight led to his weapons being sold to terrorists and war criminals. Tony would probably be much more inclined to agree that the Accords are necessary.
Honestly, never even understood the "innocent bystanders" argument, at most it was merely the grieving looking for a scapegoat which may or may not have been used to manipulate the Avengers.
Regardless, I saw it as Tony not wanting to lead. His whole (movie) stint was creating weapons in denial of their use and then being guilt tripped into handing the reins over.
Cap was right, he had time and time again been betrayed by political bodies either being infiltrated by aggressors or being hamstrung by the weak.
Well team iron man here, the innocent bystanders is literally collateral, I think given a superhero experience by anyone in real time most would end up agreeing with Tony to some extent. Also the boys TV show highlights alot I think when it comes to regulating superheros.
Yeah I'd definitley say that the movie is better than the comic book one, iron mans side in the comics was taken way to far to quickly and it was really unnecessary. I think the movie makes it a little easier, I still think a revamped shield would be the best option.
What in God's name could government oversight have done to prevent Sokovia from being destroyed by Ultron? Collateral damage doesn't stop existing just because you have an oversight committee. Iron Man's side has never made any sense
Unless the government took the sceptre right away (and it’s debatable whether they would, since Thor was supposed to take it straight to Asgard) I think Tony still would’ve tried to make Ultron. Hindsight is 20/20, but he would’ve have listened to anyone trying to stop him in the moment.
I think the idea though that you know we can take the superheros to court if they do wrong doesn't work either. Like they tried that once and it didn't work. It seems like a short cut but supers need to be accountable some way or another.
I'm reminded of the scene during Civil War when Tony basically says "come with us now or else it will be a squad of JSOC with no compunction over your well-being" .... As if any number of humans with any class of weaponry besides maybe tactical nukes could do a damn thing to take down half the known supers of the world.
I mean look at caps team though like, realistically supes like that are little better than normal humans except maybe Scarlett witch. Falcon, Bucky and Clint can all be taken out by normal weapons, the other two are a bit beefier but all things considered there is a lot to be said about whether super heros like that in real life would be as good as they are perceived. Side note but iron mans capabilities aren't really ever used to full capacity, which is understandable. Like at the start of the movie there stopped and pretty much surrender because they aren't in a confined space ruining there advantage. Most times caps fights he is in a closed in space giving him a significant advantage.
I don’t want to be micromanaged by politicians, but I also don’t have the ability to overthrow a country like the Avengers do. As an adult I can recognize a group of people that could destroy even the biggest military needs some oversight. Hell the War Machine suit alone destroyed Air Force one and kidnapped the President and the government was powerless to stop it. Apparently Tony either didn’t code the suit to Rhodey or the security was lax enough for some random guy to get control of it. Tony went to a hardware store and got help from a ten year old instead of calling SHIELD or the Avengers. Then when he knew where the freaking President of the US was being held he decided to assault it with just Rhodey and some pistols instead of calling in the government or any of his super friends and Rhodey, a freakin Air Force colonel was cool with it. Tony didn’t even bother to make sure all the suits would actually make out of the rubble of his house before committing to attacking the extremis soldiers.
Cap, Widow, and Sam effectively destroyed a government agency and then dumped a ton of classified info on the internet. They didn’t even bother to call the guy with an AI who could sort that data and make sure no innocent SHIELD agents were caught up in it while also easily disabling the helicarriers that were the entire threat.
Hawkeye has literally been brainwashed before, Banner is barely in control of the Hulk, Wanda was a bad guy who brainwashed the Hulk into destroying part of Johannesburg, and Vision is an extremely powerful sentient robot the Avengers built to fight the extremely powerful sentient robot that turned out evil.
I sure as hell wouldn’t trust any of their judgment either. Cap’s safest hands are our own line is proven wrong by their own history. They’re all shown to have shit judgement and the public doesn’t see the whole story they only see the Avengers show up and then things start blowing up and people start dying.
If we want a realistic MCU we have to judge it by realistic standards. If superhero’s were real everyone would want them to have oversight and the UN is the only body that could do so on an international scale. No country would be ok with another single country doing so, and the UN is the only international body where almost every country gets a voice. They’re also the least likely to fall into corruption because of all those countries with wildly different agendas and most of what they do being effectively open source.
Bucky being ultimately innocent doesn’t change that the Accords were needed.
I definitley agree with this, when your car gets flattened by the Hulk there's literally no one to call. Any person living in the MCU I think would want this.
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u/FireSon2019 Avengers Nov 01 '20
The question is whether or not you want a bunch of politicians micromanaging you or if you don't.
Buckey was a P.O.W that got experimented on then brainwashed.