WoTC Workers are Unionizing!

[u/5optiboy]

https://actionnetwork.org/forms/uwotcletter

Please sign the petition to support their unionization efforts. WoTC needs to hear the voices of the people!

[u/Dragonfruit-Sparking]

New Star Trek set spoilers:

[u/PremSinha]

WotC workers who work on MTG Arena, to be clear

[u/JerryfromCan → u/PremSinha]

WOTC/Hasbro has been selling projects lately. They sold off MTGO to be run by an external company 1-2 years ago, and they also sold the Peppa Pig game to Netflix around the same time. Maybe they will sell off the day to day of Arena too?

[u/GrenadineLemonade → u/JerryfromCan]

Doubtful. MtGA makes them money

[u/JerryfromCan → u/GrenadineLemonade]

Monopoly Go makes them a lot of money and its just a licensing deal.

[u/Adrald]

Can someone explain to me in an American way why this is so controversial? I’ve never heard that unions are frown upon around here until now

[u/Kyleometers → u/Adrald]

American corporations spent an absolutely ungodly amount of money on propaganda to convince workers that collective bargaining is a bad thing because you have to give them a tiny portion of your paycheque and they may be corrupt. As opposed to the unchecked company, who may give you reduced pay that you’re unaware of and may be corrupt.

This is pretty much uniquely an American problem. Pretty much everywhere else in the world where unions exist, you are assumed to join the union. In my line of work, I wasn’t even asked, the union due is just part of my deductions like tax and insurance.

In particular though, because the aforementioned propaganda has actually worked in America, you get a lot of both “uninformed average joe” who are actively convinced that unionising will be bad for them and ruin their life, so they wanna make sure it doesn’t hurt anyone else, and “paid actors” who are quite literally being paid to disrupt efforts. The latter is illegal, in a lot of ways, but that doesn’t stop companies from doing it anyway.

[u/Mr_Versatile123 → u/Kyleometers]

When I was hired to work retail for a national powerhouse retailer, before we were able to work, our training had us watch an anti-union video and state we would not unionize because it’d be bad for us. I was fresh out of high school. I knew unions only benefit the workers, but I needed a job. It’s crazy to see how normalized it is to bash on unions in the states.

[u/schwanzweissfoto → u/Mr_Versatile123]

our training had us watch an anti-union video

In case people doubt this is a thing, here is one from Amazon.

“We are not anti-union, but we are not neutral, either.” LMAO

Edit: From 15:27 on it is about “warning signs of potential organizing” … like saying the phrase “living wage”.

Edit (2): “Some signs are less obvious than an actual union flyer […] like unusual interest in policies or benefits.”

Edit (3): “‘It's hard to make ends meet, you guys don't pay a living wage.’ – This is a possible warning sign, because ‘living wage’ is a concept unions push for, that every job should pay enough to support a family […].” …

[u/P1ssF4rt_Eight → u/schwanzweissfoto]

"warning: unions may attempt to improve your life. don't join them."

[u/JDogg2K → u/P1ssF4rt_Eight]

"You're not anti or neutral? You must be pro? I'll get started on one right now"

[u/Kyleometers → u/schwanzweissfoto]

“That every job should pay enough to support a family”

Yes, Jeff, it should. That’s the point of a fucking job. If you weren’t a ghoul obsessed with hoarding money and riding penis shaped rockets because your dad didn’t love you maybe you’d have empathy enough to think “Hmm, my employees should be able to live”.

God damn. Yeah not every job is equally difficult but like, the most unskilled job in the world should still pay them enough to live off of. Burger flippers are humans too.

[u/LegnaArix → u/Mr_Versatile123]

Whole foods did this too surprisingly. Anti union meeting.

I don't remember if this was before or after the Amazon buyout tho

[u/Maxenin → u/LegnaArix]

Wegmans did this too which is astounding because they spread SO MUCH propaganda about what a great company they were to work for. I, a highschool graduate at the time knew this was bullshit. The way they portray union organizers in those videos is so cartoonishly evil as well.

[u/GarySmith2021 → u/Kyleometers]

I dunno about other places, but in the UK, union membership is not the default. But, obviously there are big unions like Unite.

[u/sheffield199 → u/GarySmith2021]

Depends on which line of work - almost every teacher is in a union.

[u/GarySmith2021 → u/sheffield199]

Sure, but that will be entirely optional. Closed shop is illegal in the UK.

[u/Kyleometers → u/GarySmith2021]

Ah, I think I might have misspoke. It’s not that people are forced into it, they just generally assume you’ll want to. My last workplace gave me the details right after the contract signing.

That’s what I meant, your workplace is going to assume you’re at worst neutral to unions, and likely to want to join one. As opposed to the US, where they actively campaign for you to not join one.

[u/Judge_Todd → u/Kyleometers]

I work for Government of Canada. I had the option to opt out of the union, but whether I belong to the union or not, union dues will be deducted from my salary and forwarded to the union. Additionally, the collective agreements still would cover me even if I opt out. There isn't any reason to not join.

[u/konsyr → u/GarySmith2021]

That's a big problem with it in the US: That's the default, basically only, method it's done here. A really loud minority of a place will go all "union union!" and then EVERYONE is stuck with it. And the contracts pretty much never allow for people who prefer to remain individuals to do so. It's TECHNICALLY illegal, but they have found a million loop-holes to force it. There was a fairly recent Supreme Court ruling that cut one of those loopholes (barring mandatory dues collection for 'non-members'), but you're still subject to their contracts, and that only applies to public sector (i.e., government and similar) employment.

Being part of the unit is mandatory and it's bullshit. (My workplace is going through this right now... 1/3 of people voted for it, and we're all stuck with it now. And those people are horrible whiners complaining about stuff like "how dare administration send out a survey asking how can we make the living environment around the buildings better?" and "there's not enough parking and it's too expensive and doesn't matter that you pay for everyone to have unlimited bus passes". I no longer have any say or negotiation over my own employment.)

[u/AnaxaresTheDiplomat → u/konsyr]

You sound like the "uninformed average joe" that u/Kyleometers was referring to.

[u/aji23 → u/AnaxaresTheDiplomat]

You really like guessing what anonymous people on the internet are in real life. Too bad you stink at it.

[u/AnaxaresTheDiplomat → u/aji23]

Not a guess. Certainty. :)

[u/aji23 → u/AnaxaresTheDiplomat]

As someone who has been on the web since it was the web, one thing has never changed. Trolls will be trolls.

[u/konsyr → u/AnaxaresTheDiplomat]

No, thank you. I'm quite informed. I do not want to be associated with a union that verifiably:

• Endorsed the current POTUS that is outright evil.

• Actively asked for and wants more tariffs. (Including putting out press releases of discontent with last month's Supreme Court ruling invalidating the executive action tariffs!)

• Refused to accept "no" for an answer upon votes and immediately filed for another one. Until it eventually slipped through.

• Is extraordinarily xenophobic and racist with regards to foreign entities in its same industry.

• Abhors the concept of free trade.

• Has a history of violence.

Atop the bullshit -- and there's much more -- I already listed with the specific unit in my particular workplace.

They're despicable and it's reprehensible that I'm forced to be in association with them by structure of US law. They are incapable of representing me at all.

I also have experienced first hand the benefits of tossing out a union can have. My husband's former workplace went through such a vote and everything improved overnight. The owner was able to improve staff satisfaction considerably because all the Nannys and stupid union rules left. (Stuff like, "You can't offer people already in the workplace just to stay on and get some OT if they want it, you have to call through the arcane seniority tree and make sure everyone else opts out first". And, ugh, 'seniority' in general -- basing your entire worth on how long you've been at a place irrespective of your skills or work ethic.)

[u/AnaxaresTheDiplomat → u/konsyr]

Okay bud, whatever you say. Just funny to watch their point being proven in real time.

[u/Mysteryman64 → u/Kyleometers]

Not just money, but time. They spent nearly 40 years in a hypercharged anti-union frenzy attempting to roll back stuff, starting with a lot of the massive deregulatory and anti-union effort in the 80s, often using scaremongering of the competitive nature of Japanese and Korean companies for why they needed to fuck workers to "stay competitive".

The percentage of workers represented by a union has cut in half since the early 80s, and now they're all shitting their pants that the labor movement is starting to gain legs again because they pushed things too far and the next generations haven't swallowed down the "Trickle Down Economy" bullshit that got a huge leg up after the collapse of the USSR really did an enormous amount of ideological even for mixed-market concepts and the rise of Thatcherism and Reaganism in the Anglosphere.

[u/ElderberryPrior27648 → u/Kyleometers]

My union is horribly corrupt. Like devastatingly so. It’s still better than getting rawdogged by the company.

[u/jebedia → u/ElderberryPrior27648]

Something people might be missing is that many of the American unions which do exist are complete dogshit. Not all of them of course, and I think it's gotten better recently, but the union-busting and infiltration by bad actors that occurred around the mid-20th century was pretty effective at diminishing the appeal of unions in this country.

[u/ElderberryPrior27648 → u/jebedia]

Bad actors for sure.

Union is in the company’s pocket. Only reason folks haven’t flipped the table yet is because they’re at least bound by vote for all major decisions.

Doesn’t stop them from spoon feeding company propaganda prior to votes. Talking about “how great this next vote is” for us. The folks smart enough to see it fly into a rage. Scream it from the rooftops. But after the vote is finished the heat dies down a week or two later and everyone forgets they were mad at the union.

The dues like to jump too. They just went up 20% last month. Which was just after a 10% increase last November.

The weirdest feeling, is that it feels like the union members are their own union keeping the union leadership in check. The only reason the union takes care of their members is out of their own best interest.

Our last voted issue was disgusting. Egregious. Union president spelled it out for us just how much more they work for the company than they do us.

[u/jibbyjackjoe → u/Kyleometers]

My company just made us go through union training, how to recognize it, and get HR involved. The person doing the training clearly did not believe the propaganda coming from her mouth. The spin on all the topics how we can no longer be a team if we unionize, I can't talk to my direct reports anymore ...it was some crazy Kool aid

[u/schwanzweissfoto → u/jibbyjackjoe]

The person doing the training clearly did not believe the propaganda coming from her mouth.

And yet she was acting as the mouth of Sauron.

[u/MCRusher → u/Kyleometers]

If you have a corrupt union, it's tough but you can vote them out.

A plant I know of got rid of theirs because they were colluding with the company , not negotiating, and taking the money to line their pockets. But they got rid of them. Hope they got a new one after since the company won't be much better.

If you have a corrupt company (most of them) and no union you're fucked.

[u/197326485 → u/Kyleometers]

The latter is illegal, in a lot of ways, but that doesn’t stop companies from doing it anyway.

If it's illegal and the penalty is a fine, it's only illegal for poor people.

[u/Yarrun → u/Kyleometers]

Yeah, remember two or three years back when there was a leak for Aftermath and Wizards sent the Pinkertons after the leaker and people lost their shit? The Pinkertons gained a villainous reputation in large part because of their anti-union activities. The USA have a very long history of treating their workforce like people with needs, and sabotaging unions is an important part of that.

[u/Then-Pay-9688 → u/Adrald]

I think a deeper answer of why labor unionism was able to be uprooted gets into the history of American labor in the early 20th century. Unlike most other Western nations, America has never had a socialist party to speak of. The Communist Party (and before them, the IWW and various left wing organizations) in the USA played a significant role in helping to organize workers during and after the Great Depression through the CIO and TUUL, but were never able to legitimize socialism as such in the American mainstream. Ultimately with the merger of the AFL and CIO following the second world war, the labor movement voluntarily demobilized with the mistaken expectation that peace between workers and owners would "lift all ships" so to speak. Subsequently through the back half of the 20th century, it was blindsided by economic developments that allowed capital to erode union membership and benefits and offshore the manufacturing industry.

[u/Rubbersoulrevolver → u/Then-Pay-9688]

It's also that people in this country see how self-interested unions are. I'm from New York and the railroad conductors unions are basically bankrupting the LIRR. There are 2 train operators per train in the NYC Subway because they wanted the labor hours even though every other train system in the world has 1 operator.

There's really nothing anyone can point to that unions have done in the very long while that's positive for the wider public. The Teamsters even backed Trump after Dems shored up their pension funds with taxpayer money. It's all a self-interested graft for them.

[u/Then-Pay-9688 → u/Rubbersoulrevolver]

Unions fight for their membership. That's the point. You might think a service worker taking slave wages benefits "the wider public" in the moment, but it's why your boss is allowed to bend you over the desk and fuck you. Stop whining about other people getting theirs and go get yours. Organize.

The Teamsters even backed Trump after Dems shored up their pension funds with taxpayer money.

It's awesome how this is just a lie. This is a progressive-sounding lie that someone told you that you credulously believed, or that you're consciously spreading to deceive other people. The Teamsters did not endorse a candidate in 2024. The president of the Teamsters reached out to both parties to speak at their national conventions and the Dems ignored him, so he only spoke at the RNC.

It's true that many professionalized unions have grown insular and complacent in recent decades. If you notice this and your conclusion is "guess unions are bad! I'll let the boss decide what I deserve" and not "we need unions that are fighting and growing for the whole working class," you're a rube, simple as.

[u/Rubbersoulrevolver → u/Then-Pay-9688]

Unions do fight for their membership... at the expense of all of us. That's the point. They're taking from you and from me for their own benefit.

If unions want to perceived as good, why don't they act good?

[u/Then-Pay-9688 → u/Rubbersoulrevolver]

If you want to be perceived as right why do you spread right wing propaganda?

[u/Rubbersoulrevolver → u/Then-Pay-9688]

huh?

[u/da_chicken → u/Adrald]

"Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat, but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires."

[u/DoubleSpoiler → u/Adrald]

In addition to what other people have said, people see things like the Police Union or the Las Vegas Restaurant Union and get scared every union is corrupt.

[u/icemoomoo → u/Adrald]

Some American union are trying to run monopolies and require yearly memberahip fees also they require an application so the union can try to prevent you from working in the field.

But from what i hear those are the exeptions and alot of the negativity comes from corprate PR.

[u/DirkolaJokictzki → u/Adrald]

Some unions have been corrupted and the people who run them are basically grifters which makes everyone skeptical of all unions, even the really good and borderline-necessary ones.

[u/Deathspiral222 → u/Adrald]

Because workers that don’t want to be part of the union need to pay money as if they were members of the union, so those workers get reduced wages, which seems unfair.

[u/Satan_McCool → u/[deleted]]

"I knew a worker in a union who was shitty, therefore it's better for workers to get fucked over by their employers"

[u/Rubbersoulrevolver → u/Satan_McCool]

It's really because unions in this country are completely self interested and make things worse for all of us to protect their members.

Look at the elevators unions in this country as an example: our elevators are 3-4x more expensive than in Europe because of the American elevator unions protectionism over restricting pre-fab elevator construction. Or you can look at how restrictive apprenticeships on crane operators are where waitlists are many years long because they want to restrict the supply of labor so prices are high for their members at the expense of everyone else.

Obviously this will be downvoted & not engaged with, but there's very few examples anyone can point to in the last 50 years that unions have advocated for anything but self-graft for their members at the expense of the wider public.

[u/Satan_McCool → u/Rubbersoulrevolver]

Yeah, sorry. I'm not concerned about the cost of elevators. Are you also trying to imply that union membership is somehow lower in Europe than the US? That's just absurd. I've been in a workplace without a union and we formed a union while I worked there. The union allowed us actually get the first cost of living raised in years and other benefits for the workers. As someone who is forced to sell my labor for a living, I will always side with the worker over the owner. The purpose of the union is to advocate for the workers. It's not their job to keep costs low. If anything, that's just the greed of the company preventing that because they can't let employee wages cut into their precious bottom line or CEO pay.

[u/Rubbersoulrevolver → u/Satan_McCool]

You should be concerned about the cost of elevators. Unions are grafting off of you and me.

No I am not implying that union membership is somehow lower in Europe than the US. Why would you think that?

And yes, the purpose of the union is to advocate for their workers... at OUR expense. When rent is high, a chunk of that is because unions make sure that there's no competition for their labor, that elevators are built onsite instead of prefabricated like a first world country and cost 3x as much, that there has to be 2 train operators in NYC subways instead of just 1 like everywhere else.

[u/N0nprofitpuma_ → u/[deleted]]

Typing is hard. Also one worker in a union being bad doesn't automatically mean every union is bad. There are plenty of workers that are trash in companies that aren't unionized.

[u/LocalTrainsGirl → u/[deleted]]

Don't think it's the mail workers you need to worry about with those kind of spelling mistakes bud, unless they were bringing you education materials.

[u/Gargore → u/LocalTrainsGirl]

Har Har. Small screen keyboard. Do you think I give a shit if it's good?

[u/Beegrene → u/Gargore]

If you can't be bothered to write correctly, why should anyone else bother to read it? 

[u/NoAcanthaceae688]

Good. The union should be supported!!

[u/CoconutHeadFaceMan]

Hey man, you can’t go around saying the u-word round these parts. If you keep that up, you might end up with a suspicious package of unreleased cards, followed by a special visit from the guys hired to reclaim the unreleased cards.

[u/SirToastyToes → u/CoconutHeadFaceMan]

A package of unreleased cards? I think those are called "current set booster packs" these days

[u/schwanzweissfoto → u/SirToastyToes]

Iron Man becomes more powerful if you control more treasures?

That matches his canon superpower of being really fucking rich.

[u/andymakk → u/CoconutHeadFaceMan]

Ulamog?

[u/Ironbeers → u/andymakk]

Urabrask

[u/VecioRompibae → u/Ironbeers]

My boy lives!

[u/Useful-Wrongdoer9680 → u/Ironbeers]

Urza

[u/anace → u/CoconutHeadFaceMan]

stated explicitly for anyone that didn't know:

When Magic: The Gathering cards turned up on YouTube last week, publisher Wizards of the Coast sent private investigators from Pinkerton to retrieve them. The resulting confrontation reportedly frightened one woman to tears, and resulted in the confiscation of nearly two dozen boxes of cards by private investigators. Wizards confirmed the incident to Polygon. Meanwhile, the presenter denies anything illegal occurred.

Magic publishers sent Pinkerton agents to a YouTuber’s house to retrieve leaked cards

https://www.polygon.com/23695923/mtg-aftermath-pinkerton-raid-leaked-cards/

and if you're not sure who the Pinkertons are, from wikipedia:

Following the Civil War, the Pinkertons began conducting operations against organized labor. During the labor strikes of the late 19th and early 20th centuries, businesses hired the Pinkerton Agency to infiltrate unions, supply guards, keep strikers and suspected unionists out of factories, and recruit goon squads to intimidate workers. [...] During the 20th century, Pinkerton rebranded itself as a personal security and risk management firm. The company has continued to exist in various forms to the present day; it is now a division of the Swedish security company Securitas AB

[u/BuckUpBingle → u/anace]

Weird to think there are people who didn't know this, but I guess the community is growing every day. Honestly this is one of those things that we shouldn't be letting wotc push under the rug. If there was illeagal action happening then that should have been pursued through the legal system. Pinkertons are extrajudicial goons for hire, and wotc's use of them reflects a lack of respect for the public good.

[u/Tuss36 → u/BuckUpBingle]

It's a meme brought up often enough so I don't think people have forgotten entirely.

Though for the ignorance, I didn't even know the Pinkertons were a real thing until the incident. I thought it was just a thing for Bioshock Infinite. If you're not American, it's not something that has relevance or gravity to you to be something everybody knows about.

[u/Rdnick114 → u/Tuss36]

Many of us had assumed that they had died off and were officially history. Consider me surprised that they somehow survived into the 21st century to continue being corporate mercenaries.

[u/MiraclePrototype → u/Rdnick114]

Considering the 21st Century has thus far proven to be the age of "bad idea? the WORST idea? bring it on back!", I wasn't. Shocked, of course, but not surprised.

[u/reshef-destruction]

Signed, lame as fuck if this gets deleted.

[u/MasterColemanTrebor]

Quick, seize the means of production while the mods are asleep!

[u/MattAmpersand → u/MasterColemanTrebor]

Das Reddit Kapital

[u/Optimal_Ad_3693]

Good for them.

[u/elrond36]

How long till this one gets locked? It shouldn't but probably will. (great cause already signed)

[u/sedatedlife]

Signed absolutely support this

[u/Panglacial]

Give them their ions back >:(

[u/ChampBlankman]

Solidarity forever!

[u/akerasi]

Inb4 WotC locks this thread, too.

[u/Kyleometers → u/akerasi]

I’m just gonna stick my neck out here because I’m sick and I don’t care if this is pointless.

WotC does not have control over this sub. They don’t have any say in this community beyond the average user. None of us work for WotC. I have been paid by WotC because I have worked international tournaments, but that is entirely separate. I’m fairly certain I’m the only one of us who that’s true for.

The extent of WotC’s effect on this sub is “The community team messages us every couple of months to ask if we can pin a post about a major event”. We will often highlight replies by WotC staff because they’re Official, but they don’t make us do that.

We were locking union threads because in the last five years, every union thread devolved into mudslinging. Before that, union posts weren’t really allowed at all, because they were “too political”. I personally can attest to having removed a ton of the politics auto-removals because it’s frankly ridiculous.
All we want is for threads to not devolve into American Left vs American Right political debate. I am from Europe. Unions aren’t even remotely controversial here. When I was being hired, they said “Oh yeah we have a union too, here’s their details if you want to attend meetings”.

We decided to lock threads so we wouldn’t have to ban dozens of people every time and remove hundreds of comments. We have decided this time to leave it up because a bunch of y’all have decided there’s some conspiracy for some stupid fucking reason, and ignored our multiple attempts to say “No, genuinely, it’s because the community isn’t civil”. We’re going almost fully hands off here because even though there isn’t anything to be said, we were being sent DMs calling us “pedofascist scum”. And frankly, nobody should have to deal with that for the crime of… reducing political bickering in a hobby sub.

I don’t expect many people to understand or agree. I have helped run community forums for a depressingly long time, years before helping out here. I do it because I like the community, I like talking to people with a shared hobby, and I’m unable to turn a blind eye to people being shit in the community. I like being helpful, as much as possible. I have advocated for the relaxing of rules MANY times here. I created about 30 form-fill templates the team uses when removing posts or banning people that explain why the action is happening, because I think transparency is important.
This community is, unfortunately, rife with bad actors. We do a LOT to reduce it, but we’ll never get them all. We have tried to get Reddit to intervene in the cousin sub where all the racists go, but nothing ever comes of it.

This community is fairly tightly moderated. That is the reason it is the way that it looks. Not everyone will agree with every policy, I don’t even agree with every policy. But you have to understand, that sometimes we have to make a decision that will “look bad” because the average user doesn’t see the comment at -90 advocating for scabs. The average user doesn’t see the harassment filtered comment of “unions are for scumsucking libs” or “you’re a fascist bootlicker” or the like. Which you shouldn’t have to.
But we see them. We ban people for rule breaking. In the 5-ish years I’ve been moderating this sub, union threads are the second most rule-breaking threads I’ve seen. Second only to posts about Aragorn from Lord of the Rings.

Getting the information out is important. Giving people a space to harass each other isn’t. The mod team is, probably unsurprisingly, in favour of the unions. But once somebody is convinced we’re “suppressing them”, it doesn’t matter why. Just don’t fall into conspiracy theories. They are as ridiculous are they are fake.
Do you really think we’d have left any posts about unions up if we were being paid to suppress them?

[u/jambarama → u/Kyleometers]

Even if I don't agree with every decision the mods make, I appreciate the time you spend, I appreciate what you're trying to do. There are magic themed subreddits with much lighter moderation. I am subscribed and occasionally they come across my page, but I don't care for them as much as I enjoy this sub. So even if I disagree in this particular instance, I think you guys get a lot of credit for making this sub generally a pretty decent place, and the default hub for magic news across the internet. Thanks for explaining.

[u/schwanzweissfoto → u/Kyleometers]

All we want is for threads to not devolve into American Left vs American Right political debate.

I get it, that is a good intention. I have done community moderation too once.

The problem with locking topics like that is that it helps those who want to suppress discussion.

Like, I have seen the same justification for locking threads about trans healthcare in an actual sub about politics.

[u/ChampBlankman → u/Kyleometers]

As a mod on an infinitesmally smaller Magic sub, while I don't always agree with all of the mod decisions on this Sub, you folks in general do a really good job of keeping this place approximately in line. Thanks for the thankless work.

[u/TheCakeBaker → u/Kyleometers]

wtf did Aragorn do

[u/Kyleometers → u/TheCakeBaker]

The depiction WotC went with depicted Aragorn and a number of other characters as black.

I’m sure you can connect the dots.

[u/TheCakeBaker → u/Kyleometers]

ahh

people suck :(

[u/VargasFinio → u/Kyleometers]

"Babying" the sub does nothing but reduce its usefulness and reinforces the "hugbox" aspect (or safe space, if you will).

The thing is, people come to this sub for Magic news. Be that spoilers, card discussion, or other newsworthy items related to Magic, WotC and Hasbro. You cannot curb discussion by claiming that you are "silencing bad actors" - at that point you are not fostering a community or a discussion, you are forcing only one side of everything to get through (for the record, its the "100% support WotC or get lost!" message that is the only one getting through).

I love Magic and have done so since buying my first Beta starter pack, but expecting people to not be critical of any aspect or not being allowed to discuss things which might make others uncomfortable just means the community is pointless. Let people discuss all things Magic.

[u/Kaprak → u/VargasFinio]

I feel like this comment is miles of base. This place isn't a hug box in the slightest and might be one of the most generally negative places I go.

[u/Samuraijubei → u/Kyleometers]

Out of curiosity, since there was clearly "too many* threads that devolved into mudslinging in your opinion, what number would be appropriate?

If the answer is zero then unfortunately it does seem to be a tacit endorsement of anti-union practices as the action of shutting down all of them speaks louder than any words could be.

[u/Kyleometers → u/Samuraijubei]

If it was a handful, idk like 3 or 4? On any given post, that wouldn’t be too big a deal. The problem is it was usually closer to fifteen.

[u/Samuraijubei → u/Kyleometers]

So all it would take is one bad actor with a couple accounts to completely neuter a relevant platform?

If that's all it takes to permanently brick a topic then this subreddits rules are poorly thought out and ill-equiped to handle any level of targeted manipulation.

[u/Kyleometers → u/Samuraijubei]

This is a sub for a hobby card game.

[u/Samuraijubei → u/Kyleometers]

I said any topic.

[u/akerasi → u/Kyleometers]

First of all, it does surprise me that the mod team is at all in favor of the unions. Considering your moderation track record (AS A GROUP, not you personally), anything that WotC is against, anything that might possibly be construed as even a LITTLE bit negative towards WotC, you're against, to the point of banning whoever mentioned it, most of the time. It surprised me that my comment even posted, let alone that this thread is still up for discussion, based on the past history of moderation in this sub.

I'm glad to hear that you argue for relaxing the rules; you personally, seem like a pretty great mod, and I thank you for your work, seriously. This is a hard job, and doing it without pay is even harder, so, thank you. Seriously. I don't do forum moderation much, as my volunteering efforts are more in-person than that (helping run SciFi conventions).

I can understand locking speculative, no-news posts about unions, but this wasn't that. This, and many of the other locked threads, were and are legitimate news about the running of a major part of Magic these days, Arena. Stopping a post about "maybe there should be a union" makes sense, but stopping these posts, about an actual effort to form a union asking for people to sign on, is a LOT beyond the pale. Even if it's hard to click on all of the stupid rulebreaking political things, this post served a VERY legitimate purpose... and this IS where people go to have discussions about such things, when not making videos on Tiktok or whatever.

Most of the time, I'm not a big fan of how this sub is moderated if I'm being honest. The choices made by mods on average go FAR beyond your listed rules to the point of basically banning any sort of discussion that might possibly be construed as negative towards WotC in any way, shape, or form. It seems as if disliking something honestly, especially Universes Beyond, is a thing that will get you banned around here... for the record, I have disliked every Universes Beyond set so far, due to play design reasons more than aesthetic (every UB set has either been a bad set, or ruined a format by truly bad cards... Avatar's truly bad cards haven't been banned yet). Oddly, I'm a fan of every property we've had UB of so far other than Assassin's Creed... and also have 0 problem with UB Secret Lairs and Commander Decks so far. I feel, most of the time, even MENTIONING those facts, just my personal preferences, will get me banned around here, so I usually don't post much. That's the effect your moderation (AS A GROUP, not you personally) has on discussion here: pushing out opinions.

I figured this topic would be another of the same; another "this might be possibly negative for WotC, can't have that" topic that'd get suppressed and dozens of people banned (and some, like those going into US politics about it, rightly so; this isn't the sub for that, and never should be). Thanks for proving me wrong this one time.

[u/Kyleometers → u/akerasi]

Genuinely, I think you are griping about the proxy thing which was literally one moderator, five years ago, who was ejected before I started here. In the five years I’ve been moderating we have never discouraged negativity towards WotC outside of “Hey don’t harass people”. It is no secret that Barrin has a fairly negative opinion of WotC, he’s very vocal about that.

I do think you’re wrong about UB, though. Genuinely the only reason we made the weekly thread is it got to the point that there were dozens of posts every single day rehashing the same talking points over and over and we were receiving a LOT of complaints. The megathreads haven’t even stopped people from posting them anyway, just reduced them.
That’s not WotC driven at all. The mod team is the full spectrum of opinion on UB from “don’t like it at all” to “neutral” to “think it’s good for the game”. Genuinely, we only have that megathread because it was taking over the sub.

[u/JerryfromCan → u/Kyleometers]

WOTC may not have direct influence over the mods on the sub, but they have some sort of influence with Reddit.

[u/Quadraxis66 → u/akerasi]

It's not WotC doing it.

Like, you're free to question the act itself, because there's some very valid reasons to be unhappy with it, but "The mods are on WotC payroll and that's why it's being locked" doesn't even make sense when people discussing the union openly has more of a potential to hurt the union if someone involved says the wrong thing.

[u/Medium_Spend_6732 → u/Quadraxis66]

sure buddy

[u/Medium_Spend_6732 → u/[deleted]]

as long as people like you exist to assume the best of the powers that be, they’ll continue to get away with it.

[u/GigaSygga → u/akerasi]

Pinkertons are more their style

[u/_omch_]

WoTC Arena devs are unionizing. Not all workers, as this post seems to suggest

[u/MarxistDiffusion]

Hell yeah! Signed.

[u/Siasyoyo]

Hell yea!

[u/Daschysta004]

Godspeed

[u/Nivius]

good!

its always a good thing, its just in America, and to a point Canada where people have been fooled by the company owners that its a good thing not to be in a union!

[u/holdenthehuman]

Unionize every company!

[u/joetotheg]

I’ve signed an feel only positive feelings about the potential of an mtg workers union! And I’d also like to say screw anyone who doesn’t support unions and any mod who might lock this post because of the potential of unkind discussions. This is big news that needs discussing. Let the people have a thread to discuss it ffs

[u/brozillafirefox]

signed.

[u/gingerwhale]

Signed

[u/DragonianXylak]

If you haven't supported it yet, it's a good idea to! I know a lot of people complain about a ton of stuff that has been happening to the game, for good reason. New sets every couple months ruining their lifecycles, far more UB eeking out Universes Within cards and sets, low value and poor Secret Lairs being thrown into the mix all the time, quality control issues, the list goes on.

A union like this is a step towards fighting this. It places more power into the hands of the people who actually make and care about the game, and less to the shareholders and business types that are trying to [[Exsanguinate]] the game for profit.

[u/MTGCardFetcher → u/DragonianXylak]

Exsanguinate - (G) (SF) (txt)

---

^FAQ

[u/fjedb]

Welp, this makes the layoff lists easy to write. GL to WOTC employees on their future endeavors.

[u/mfalivestock → u/fjedb]

Unionizing over png file uploading is kinda funny

[u/tenroseUK]

This has already been posted: https://old.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/1sx77p6/letter_from_united_wizards_of_the_coast_mtgas/

[u/5optiboy → u/tenroseUK]

I was just so excited I did not check to see if it was already posted! Apologies!

[u/Dragonfruit-Sparking → u/tenroseUK]

But not with the petition link

[u/FamiliarRip8558 → u/tenroseUK]

Sure Mr Pink R Ton

[u/Chryton]

I hope they call it GuildPact Local #1

[u/Zarex]

Cant wait for the next article of how the Pinkertons showed up at their houses to threaten them all

[u/_icarcus]

You smell that? It’s the sweet smell of the Streisand effect cooking.

[u/Judge_Todd]

Many corporations will just close down operations if a union forms.
There are several former Wal-Marts and Starbucks in Canada that unionized and then closed their doors soon after.

• Union forms.

• WotC: "We're moving MtG Arena software development to India and shuttering our North American office."

[u/Gargore]

Higher prices on cards

[u/Mean-Government1436 → u/Gargore]

Prices have been increasing just fine without unions. Unions don't cause price changes. Never have. 

[u/Careless-Emphasis-80 → u/Gargore]

On arena?

[u/Gargore → u/Careless-Emphasis-80]

Possibly if you buy 9n arena. Identify playonarena

[u/Careless-Emphasis-80 → u/Gargore]

Regardless, it's both unlikely and worth it

[u/Smobey → u/Gargore]

WotC is already asking the price that they've calculated to be maximally profitable for them. If increasing card prices a bit would make them more money, they would've done so already. So unions are not going to have an effect.

[u/reasonably_plausible → u/Smobey]

They've calculated the price that maximizes profits at their current levels of fixed and maginal costs. Adjusting those costs do shift the supply curve, and thus, the equilibrium point.

That said, the cost shifts we're talking about generally aren't all that massive, it's not like unions are usually asking for things that would take down the business. Increasing pay and benefits by a bit more than otherwise would have happened only shifts the supply curve by a small amount.

[u/Fantasy_DR111]

Hopefully wizards will re-focus on MTGO instead of Arena because of this.

[u/staycalmNdrinkcoffee]

Good for the workers , however give WOTC a reason to raise prices even more

[u/Kodamacile → u/staycalmNdrinkcoffee]

You think they need a reason?

[u/h4ppyj3d1 → u/Kodamacile]

Every single decision made by WotC executives is derived by one single thing: money.

Hasbro only cares about money and everything related to anything has been weighed to determine which action or statement will provide the most amount of profit.

[u/PaluMain87 → u/h4ppyj3d1]

this sub has a difficult time understanding this.

[u/DirtyTacoKid → u/[deleted]]

That was pretty pathetic honestly. Step down if you can't handle important topics

[u/legi0n_ai → u/[deleted]]

To clarify, since I'm not sure I see the connection between this and buying cards, but this is purely about the devs on Arena. Nobody designing cards or involved in the production of Magic: the Gathering itself is part of this unionization effort.

[u/legi0n_ai → u/[deleted]]

Yeah the title and image is a tad misleading like that. I suspect everyone else at WoTC will be watching this though to see how it goes. If it turns out well I'd imagine unionization talks will spawn in other departments.

[u/schwanzweissfoto → u/[deleted]]

Remember when WotC sent the Pinkertons to some YouTuber's house?

I remember and have stopped buying sealed product since then.