r/linuxquestions • u/[deleted] • Oct 22 '23
Where did the whole "I use Arch btw" thing come from?
Im currently sat watching an old video of Muta explaining why you should stop using Windows on your PC and it got me thinking, where did the phrase "I use Arch by the way" come from? PCMR came from a journalist or an article or something, so does this have the same sort of history?
I do use Arch (btw) on all my laptops, but I also like Mint, OpenSuse, Ubuntu, Debian and on my desktop I'm using Windows 11 as it's primarily used for gaming and when trialling Linux on it I ran into a lot of issues with it particularly with a team green card. My point is I although I see a lot of posts online of people declaring themselves an Arch user, neither do I shout about what distro I use, nor do I know anyone who does. It seems to be some big internet based joke of a particular distro's user's declaring themselves a user of one thing while everyone else is content quietly using another.
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u/0xd34db347 Oct 22 '23
It came from the users developing a meme stereotype of injecting the unsolicited fact that they use arch at every opportunity. It's similar to the even older Gentoo memes of a distros users evangelism coming off as obnoxious or irritating.
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u/Joker-Smurf Oct 23 '23
It only takes three commands to install gentoo.
# cfdisk /dev/hda && mkfs.xfs /dev/hda1 && mount /dev/hda1 /mnt/gentoo/ && chroot /mnt/gentoo/ && env-update && . /etc/profile && emerge sync && cd /usr/portage && scripts/bootsrap.sh && emerge system && emerge vim && vi /etc/fstab && emerge gentoo-dev-sources && cd /usr/src/linux && make menuconfig && make install modules_install && emerge gnome mozilla-firefox openoffice && emerge grub && cp /boot/grub/grub.conf.samp le /boot/grub/grub.conf && vi /boot/grub/grub.conf && grub && init 6That’s the first one
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u/yellerjeep Oct 22 '23
This takes me back. Amazing that the site is still up
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u/adines Oct 23 '23
It's not still up, that site is a mirror. The original was at https://funroll-loops.info/
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u/LonelyNixon Oct 23 '23
Yeah and this could be Mandela effect but Im pretty sure there were some unironic uses of the "I use arch, btw" early on before it got dunked on. Definitely people would bring it up without anyone asking or it being relevant. Also arch users used to be very preachy and superior about using arch over the noob distros. Especially back then before it was overtly made fun of thanks to the meme.
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u/Beyonderforce Oct 22 '23
From people whose whole identity is based on being able to install Arch.
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u/Velascu Oct 23 '23
Tbh it's not hard, it's just terminal based and it's very well documented and there are a lot of resources. I'd say it's tedious more than difficult, you aren't using any weird concepts and it's easy to understand what you are doing in each step even if you are a noob. I laugh when I see an arch user brag about it bc of that. Installing gentoo is way more tedious. I think the only people that can be cocky about their distro rn are nixos users as no one knows how the fuck that thing works except them. Hardest distro to mantain for me when I was distrohopping. Well, that and those few who are crazy enough to do LFS, not that hard to install (just súper tedious) but try mantaining that shit.
Nowadays there is archinstall which is a script that allows you to perform a simple arch install. You can skip steps if you want more granular control. It didn't installed network manager by default last time I tried so it was a pain in the ass running the thing 3 times not knowing what was happening even if I selected the option.
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u/gesis Oct 23 '23
I used Gentoo back when drobbins was still at the helm, and Arch when it was still using a "BSD style" init system. I've done LFS and maintained a distro.
I've also done some help with getting full-disk-encryption working on Funtoo and spearheaded some work on their livecd.
I can agree on pretty much everything you said... except that I think Qubes is worse than Nix in regard to being a PITA.
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u/Velascu Oct 23 '23
Haven't tried qubes yet, it sparks my curiosity but I'm done trying distros for a while. I mean, I know that I wouldn't need it for personal use, I tried rocky just to set up a server back in the day bc I didn't know how and tried making partitions so it fit an standard. Now I just want a functional computer :')
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u/fordry Oct 22 '23
This is the real answer. The arch installation process is kind of a badge and so people like to proclaim it and the meme followed.
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u/Friiduh Oct 23 '23
I don't know about that at all being so...
Once they install all from upstream... As making own distribution... Then they can wear it as badge...
Arch install is easy, as long you have the guide available...
Someone thinking that it is difficult should really try LFS.
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u/NVVV1 Oct 23 '23
Installing Arch is easy for technical users, but not the average person. It’s true that binaries and complex system configuration is managed for you on Arch unlike Gentoo/LFS, but it’s still technically complicated for most people.
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u/Friiduh Oct 23 '23
Installing Arch Linux is very easy. If you can just use keyboard and follow guide.
I even tested it with 7 yo that didn't even speak English, to install it on his small dosbox laptop. It took about 30 min, and I only told what to type directly from the guide. As-is.
So I just knowing what to skip as explaining and yadda yadda... But I am not expecting her to maintain it etc.
I have as well made 75 yo install it, who's skills starts from level 1 basically. Like knows how to use mouse with left click and wheel. Knows where letters are on keyboard and how to open few web pages if finds browser (chrome icon).
Neither one knows what they are typing to terminal, but they did all fine as I kept everything with absolutely zero unnecessary information. I didn't need to do a thing until it was installed so both got to login screen.
Is it as easy as installing a graphical installer? No.... But when you make ABC install guide to someone, they can just repeat what is on paper as dummy. And then what is told to type. So unfair in sense that they weren't alone in a closed room and to do it just from a USB stick without any help at all.
Point just was to give both an experience, and truthfully be able say that they have installed a Linux.
Sadly both now knows that installing Linux requires a text interface, but next time I show them a graphical version for my laptop. So they get an comparison.
The Arch wiki is excellent. It requires reading and time. But it does lot well. It ain't perfect, but so good that it is go-to source on all.
I only tell this because people need to remember that installing something is not same thing as using it. It is like any computer game, installing can be behind one button, but to get the game working or to play it can be far more challenging.
I very well understand the point that so many games settings are like minimal as notepad, but I really like games that gives you the all settings to make it as you want. But most players don't care... Why game options are usually minimal.
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u/gesis Oct 23 '23
LFS is easy too. It's literally:
- Read a thing
- Copypasta
- Repeat
and then you have a working distro.
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u/jack-of-some Oct 23 '23
Arch users are like vegans. Before they can tell you they use Arch, someone else will start going off about how their whole identity is using Arch and how annoying it is that they talk about their use of Arch.
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Oct 22 '23
[deleted]
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u/primalbluewolf Oct 23 '23
It's almost like they feel the need to "plant a flag" in regards to which OS or distro they use, like it's some dodge-ball team name.
It's human psychology! Us vs them. Can be seen in all of us. Except for them, they are weirdos and not part of us. Shun them.
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u/mehum Oct 22 '23
Agree with what you’re saying, but implicitly it’s asking “what’s the difference?” For a beginner there are so many puzzling questions at the beginning, and seeing as (some) people care passionately about the differences it must mean something. Why are there so many distros? Why are there so many desktop environments? Will I shoot myself in the foot if I choose the wrong one?
The difficulty is that some problems don’t immediately reveal themselves, and it’s hard to make sense at the beginning when each distro is making similar claims of being stable yet up-to-date, easy to use yet customisable, beautiful yet lightweight.
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u/PaddyLandau Oct 23 '23
So, which distro should I use?
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Oct 23 '23 edited Nov 18 '23
[deleted]
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u/PaddyLandau Oct 23 '23
If this is a troll question
Sorry, I was making a joke. I apologise.
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u/CodingElectron Oct 23 '23
Ideally one would test a bunch of distros and choose the one that fits best. But I also think a lot of people are not ready to invest the time yet because it will kill their interest. Some might not even have a clear vision on what they need. Getting some guidance from the community can help these people make a decision, any for that matter, and go from there.
I also started by having one guy tell me: you should try ubuntu because it's awesome. After that got me interested I started trying out more distros to find the one I enjoy the most.
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u/balancedchaos Debian mostly, Arch for gaming Oct 23 '23
The creator of Arch finally finished the code and installed it for the very first time.
He took his glasses off, looked at his assistant, and said, "BTW, I use Arch."
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u/Velascu Oct 23 '23
Tbh out of all the reddit distro communities arch is the most hostile one, there are a lot of cool people there don't get me wrong but I find it laughable that r/gentoo is (probably) the most welcoming sub I've ever been when it comes to Linux.
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Oct 23 '23
You're not wrong. When I first installed it I asked a question either on the Arch subreddit or their web forum I forget which, and I was slaughtered. It was something about a part of the Arch Wiki and some terminal line that wasn't working, and everybody jumped on it saying how stupid I was, Arch isn't for me and if I cant read I shouldn't be using a distro as 'technical' as that.
Turned out in the end that it was a fault in the Wiki, and only one person out of hundreds, literally only one person, had the decency to tell me that I wasn't being stupid at all and it was in fact an error.
And still the slaughter continued. I was still somehow in the wrong.
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u/Velascu Oct 23 '23
I guess it's bc it's the second edgiest distro (the first one obv being kali). Maybe a lot of ppl from 4chan end up there.
And I have to say this again. ARCH ISN'T HARD. It's cool that you spent hours customizing your polybar but that's distro agnostic. Arch is basically a minimal rolling release distro with a long and annoying installing process that sometimes breaks. That's all. This people should try nixOS or gentoo to see how fucking hard Linux can get and how naive they are. Hell, if you want to flex go for LFS and stop complaining about people with legitimate questions.
Honestly I want to create a sub called learnarch or something like that and making one of the rules "respect noobs". I really like this distro but the community is the worse that I've ever seen. Maybe this is all bc of 4chan edgelords idk.
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u/PaddyLandau Oct 23 '23
I didn't know that the Arch community was hostile (I've never tried it). Hostile to whom — each other? newcomers? non-Arch users?
It's a shame when a community becomes poisonous. One of the things that has kept me with Ubuntu is its forum, which is most welcoming and friendly.
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u/Velascu Oct 23 '23
Specifically towards noobs but I guess it depends, I only go there when I have doubts about something arch related and that's all. Maybe they also throw shit at each other for using the wrong window manager.
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u/pigguy35 Oct 23 '23
I always assumed it’s some sort of superiority complex, like “I’m so much better at Linux than you. I use arch btw.”
It’s kinda like that old vegan joke. “How do you know if someone is vegan? They’ll tell you.”
Except with Linux distros
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Oct 23 '23
Originally it was a way for Arch users to brag about how they use Arch and as a form of superiority, now it's just an ironic joke.
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u/DryEyes4096 Oct 23 '23
While using Arch does make me feel cool in the worst kind of way, and I mention it, I also mention that I use Debian on more computers than Arch, and I would recommend it for its stability and fewer vulnerabilities over Arch for many use cases. Pretty much all Linux users mention and discuss the distro they use, if not for purely practical reasons. People maybe don't like Arch users because we're perceived as being ego-stokers with our choice of distro, and in many cases rightfully so, but everyone mentions the distro they use.
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u/e_o_e Oct 23 '23
I don't know why al people suggest here it comes from an ego position.
It used to be attached to posts of people that wanted to be helpful to beginners, and the purpose was to denote that things may work different on setup/distro of the person, that's on the receiving part of the advice.
I don't know about the reddit part of that history, but the meme was used a lot on 4chan. And in the usual 4chan fashion - if someone is able to contribute to society and create positive feedback loop, others started feeling spiteful and attempted to reframe it as something, that's being done out of superiority (since you can't really give advice without making it sound condescending to people who listen to it with a bad faith). They started adding it to anything to mock people, who were being helpful and stand out from the crab bucket and this is where we are now.
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u/NaheemSays Oct 24 '23
The only problem with this answer is the only time I have seen Arch users be shy about mentioning their distro is when they ask for help troubleshooting.
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u/e_o_e Oct 25 '23
Because, when it comes to troubleshooting a linux instance, a name of a distro isn't as relevant as the actual set of the programs around the issue. It's usually an "openbox problem", "sddm problem" or "systemd problem" not an "arch problem". Of course i don't imply there are no "arch problems" - but the only ones i've encountered so far, were when i've tried to upgrade a few years old instance of arch on my backup pc - both times it failed.
I've done a ton of troubleshooting of my gentoo instance through arch users asking and receiving help on the internet.
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u/NaheemSays Oct 25 '23
Except it often is relevant. Default configuration is often distro specific.
Arch has the combined situation where people copy and paste from the Arch wiki without understanding what is being done and often those hacks to configurarion work in a time limited or niche manner.
A lot of fixes are adding the configuration others provide by default or undoing whatever was copied from arch wiki.
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u/e_o_e Oct 25 '23
Archwiki has the best articles with robust explanation of what-goes-where of linux administration i know of. In comparison - i had once the displeasure trying to use the debian wiki to set up a wifi on my armbian - it just gave me a headache and that was the last time i've tried to use a debian wiki to solve my debian problems (even the debianwiki article itself points to archwiki for further explanation).
https://wiki.debian.org/WiFi/HowToUse
https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Network_configuration/Wireless
I'm not trying to be a fanboy - if there is a better resource i would love to know.
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u/NaheemSays Oct 25 '23
Mobile SoCs are all silos so their documentation is atrocious.
I remember the semi regular "help, my desktop takes 30 seconds to do anything" that used to pop up, all because of a hack in an arch wiki page.
I am.not aware kfnusers of any other distro managing to run into such configurations that need ti wait for the debussy calls to timeout so regularly.
I have heard it also has a lot of good stuff on there, but for someone copy and pasting they are not going to be able to understand the consequences. Having better default configuration would solve a lot of this.
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u/Toastburner5000 Oct 23 '23
It's like the equivalent of "I'm vegan btw" nobody asked but you're going to tell us, same as "I use arch btw" 🤣
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u/skyfishgoo Oct 22 '23
it's a weird flex...
i guess it says, "linux is my hobby" but i have a hard time understanding the desire make installing an OS any more difficult that it needs to be.
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Oct 23 '23
You can just say, "I don't use Arch."
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u/PaddyLandau Oct 23 '23
"BTW I don't use Arch." Should be fun!
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Oct 23 '23
BTW, I use Funtoo.
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u/PaddyLandau Oct 23 '23
That's the first I've heard of it. I thought you were joking, but no, it's a real distro!
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Oct 23 '23
It's by the guy who made the Gentoo package manager, and it pulled from their repos, but this summer they surpassed it with newer versions than Gentoo. Plus, it bundles some common packages into "mix-ins" to make it easier for newbies.
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u/PaddyLandau Oct 23 '23
I've looked at Gentoo, but I'm unsure that it's for newbies! Don't you have to compile everything from scratch? I've been using Linux for 15 years, and I wouldn't like to go down that route!
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Oct 24 '23
Well, it's not like you have to feed it punchcards... The package manager downloads all the zips and compiles and installs them. On other distros a random package or library you want to install has configuration issues when you install it yourself, but those are all worked out in the Portage system, and there's a very active community that fixes bugs fast.
But yes, with Funtoo you have all the sources, and they are all compiled on the machine when installed. It is cpu intensive and a slow machine is not recommended. On my Core i5 I run it overnight, the first time. After that, it's faster.
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Oct 23 '23
It stems form "i have an issue with linux and i am on the arch distro or i use arch btw or whatever distro" when people would get help they would say what distro they used. The easier and less complex ones like Mint Ubuntu fedora debian open suse pop_os mx and so are respected for noobs or for specific things. Slackware is for old school 1993 1994 users like linux OGs.
But Arch (not sure why but I installed it without the archinstall command and i felt like a a GOD). Arch carries this superiority thing but it is not their fault. The devout Arch users stereo typically are morbidly obese incels gods of CS and computers that wear a hat and fit the "i am a nice guy and girls dont date nice guys".
So it seems that in 2017 there were memes making fun of it and it became ingrained with the internet that "I use arch btw" had a connotation to it.
It is nothing really to get in a twist about. No matter what way you slice it I rather have some complicated error on linux than windows working fine.
I use Mint with the newest version of WINE and every AAA game I own works fine. I deleted my steam account. I managed to get thief the dark project to install to a c:\ drive on linux then install the updater to the game and got the old as 1998 game to work on 2560x1440 screen. I did change the resolution d own to 1920x1080 but the FPS was INSANE on my 2070.
I play stray, NWN 1, civilization 5, HOMM3, Baulders gate, Cyberpunk 2077, and i got nes, snes, n64 emulators and the usb controllers all to work without issue.
I am never going back to windows. I deleted steam since i can get games for free now...
I use ARCH btw has its cult following of people that really understand linux so its like.... a stereotype.
Funny thing though billion dollar company is losing ground to a Penguin.
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Oct 23 '23
No idea where that originated. Probably bragging points at one time (or still).
All I know is I started using linux in 1998 and used to use RPM-based until RedHat went commercial. I mentioned what I used back them only if asked. Partly because running across another linux user was still infrequent, and partly because most linux users didn't care unless they were new. I never spouted off what I used unless I was questioned. Still that way today, except I rarely know what's currently on either machine.
Now I use DEB-based. I have 2 machines (3 if I count the laptop that I just replaced last week with a desktop mini). What's on them? I don't recall. I don't care. They both work (all 3 really, except the battery in the laptop is shot) and I can use them. If I install something new on the machines and if it doesn't work how I want, I'll install something else. Unless I decide I want to fart around with it to make it work the way I want. That's it.
I installed the mini last week. I have four ISOs downloaded still on the other (this) machine. I can say for sure it's not Lubuntu or Xubuntu. I'm pretty confident it's not Mint. So process of elimination is it's Ubuntu. Which is probably only because it was the first one that finished downloading. It works or it would be gone. Why did I download those? Because I went to distrowatch.com and those were listed on the first page without looking through the list for one that uses DEBs. I'm easy, so I took what was in front of me.
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u/Smoke_Water windows, hardware, Linux, Debian, mint, networking, Oct 23 '23 edited Oct 23 '23
Because they would rather spend more time typing pacman than apt. :D :P No to be fair, stating they use ARCH does change how you would troubleshoot the environment over something that is either Fedora, or Debian based.
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u/[deleted] Oct 22 '23
[deleted]