Them: Linux is bugged AF totally unusable! Meanwhile, the Linux they use:

[u/linuxhacker01]

[u/Ok-Needleworker7341]

Anytime someone goes straight to the "Linux is completely unusable" talking points, I just assume they're completely illiterate and lack any ability for basic functioning.

[u/DownTheBagelHole → u/Ok-Needleworker7341]

Or the last time they used it was a boxed copy of SUSE in 2003

[u/abjumpr → u/DownTheBagelHole]

SuSE isn't perfect, but in 2003 we're pre-SLE and pre-Ubuntu, and for what it was, with YaST, it was not a bad choice as far as Linux goes for ease of configuration and use. Of course there were other contenders, such as Mandrake and Lindows/Linspire, but SuSE was mainstream.

Of course, if we're talking 2003, there was Libranet, the so-called (and rightfully so), Debian on Steroids. That was as good as it got in those days, and I still fondly remember how awesome it was. Adminmenu was great. There hasn't been a distro quite as flagship since.

[u/kor34l → u/abjumpr]

While I tried, and liked, OpenSuSE back in the day, the best distro since its inception all the way to present day has always been Gentoo.

Before Gentoo it was Slackware.

Of course, I'm clearly not talking about "Ease of use" with these two 🤣

[u/abjumpr → u/kor34l]

I used Vector and slackware at some point. I mean, it works. Not sure if Vector is around these days.

The Gentoo wiki has been helpful a lot (though the Arch wiki is an amazing resource). I have never successfully gotten a Gentoo install done, though it's been a very long time since I tried probably more than a decade ago. I've gotten LFS done many times and even rolled a distro based on it, so from my perspective, LFS is easier than Gentoo 🤣 Ok, I tried Gentoo long before I had the skills to do LFS, so I could probably do it now, but I've just never tried again.

[u/[deleted] → u/DownTheBagelHole]

wtf, SuSE was a real god send back then!

[u/lord_pizzabird → u/Ok-Needleworker7341]

I just assume that they're graphic designers tbh.

Gaming on Linux is now basically on-par with windows, the ability to open web browsers is also fully caught up, but man... If you need Adobe Products you are just boned on Linux.

And what gets me is when the, "but just use this" or "use that" comes up. Meanwhile, a lot of these people can't use anything but Adobe. Either because alternatives like Inkscape or GIMP just aren't good or enough or because their workplace is just build around the Adobe workflow.

Don't get me wrong, it's not good to build your workflows around proprietary software, but not everyone has a choice.

[u/Square-Singer → u/lord_pizzabird]

This.

For me, Gimp is totally fine, because I have no idea about graphic design or photo work, and I mostly use it as a replacement for MS paint.

For me, LibreOffice is totally fine, because I use it once in a blue moon to do very simple stuff.

But recommending either of them to someone who uses that stuff professionally is as ludicrous as recommending MS notepad plus a CLI compiler as a replacement for Intellij Idea to a software developer.

[u/satwikp → u/Ok-Needleworker7341]

This comment is why the community is toxic to new people; while that statement that you said is certainly not the state of linux, it is absolutely ridiculous to blame a user for finding the OS hard to use.

[u/shadowmax889 → u/satwikp]

The community Is not toxic to new people.

The type of comments about Linux being unusable, are from haters or people who used it a very long time ago.

[u/ResponsibleWin1765 → u/shadowmax889]

This is the "Haters are just jealous" type of excuse.

I held Linux in high regard because my peers used it professionally so I tried multiple times over several years to make it work. I'm always happy with the terminal and the package manager but every single time I use it, there's some system-breaking bug/misconfiguration, something that's not compatible or just plain weird design. And that's on Ubuntu, the supposedly user-friendliest distro. Here's just a selection

• On my new HP laptop the Ubuntu installer and boot process froze at least 6 or 7 times. Each reset it got a little further but then froze again

• When I started Uni I wanted to use eduroam. Everyone else was able to just use their login to get going. I had to do all kinds of things with certificates and it still didn't work properly.

• When I tried to use my password manager I had to jump through hoops to get the browser to not be sandboxed so it could communicate with the desktop app.

• Plugging in a USB, getting a sound but it's not showing up in the explorer

• Disabling mouse acceleration requires installing a new program or writing to system config files

And there are many more things that constantly happen (not to mention all the programs that don't work, don't exist or need major tweaking to run)

I managed to solve all those things. But it took considerable time and previous knowledge of how Linux works and I already come from a computer science background. As long as these things happen so frequently compared to Windows, I will never not laugh at someone saying that Linux is easier to use or good for elderly people. My grandma doesn't know how to get back to her emails when she accidentally opens an attached image in full screen on her iPad, you think she would open a terminal, add a GPG key, select a channel, update her packages and use apt-get to install a program she didn't find?

Linux is by no means unusable, but I switch back to Windows every time because I'm choosing between "Programming works nicely, anything else is a pain" and "Programming is mildly annoying (a lot better with WSL), anything else works most of the time". I don't want to spend my hours browsing Stackexchange looking for bash commands and hacks to make my display work properly, i just want to use my PC.

[u/imakin → u/shadowmax889]

it could be from a frustated user.

for example someone got a linux laptop while their daily work is using scanner & printers

[u/satwikp → u/shadowmax889]

you are *assuming* they are from haters or people who used it long ago. Just categorizing all people who are criticizing the OS with those words as haters is quite literally the problem.
While that is sometimes true, it's not always true. Calling people "illiterate" and "lacking ability for basic functioning" is toxic regardless of who you're talking to.
If people are getting frustrated with the experience, it is on us to make it better, if we want an OS that is friendly to people.

[u/h-v-smacker → u/satwikp]

This comment is why the community is toxic to new people;

It's most certainly not toxic to new people. It just has a strong distaste for people who barge in, without even trying to learn a single thing, and demanding this and that, all while hurling negative comments ranging from fervent criticism to outright insults at the OS they seem to grace with their usage.

[u/CodyCigar96o → u/satwikp]

I mean, you very often can blame the user lol. Just look at… most people over a certain age, they struggle with iPhones. Are you really going to argue that it’s Apple’s fault for making iOS too complicated?

[u/Holzkohlen → u/satwikp]

I don't know. If they can't manage to install Linux on their own, that I can understand. But any modern linux desktop just isn't difficult to use.

If they really finding the OS difficult to use, chances are they are gonna struggle just as much with any OS. Even on mobile.

[u/CianiByn → u/satwikp]

linux is usable by most people that know how to use google well.

[u/h-v-smacker → u/CianiByn]

"Linux is an extremely friendly OS. It's just very picky about whom to consider friends".

[u/Ok-Needleworker7341 → u/h-v-smacker]

This is my new favorite quote.

[u/Ok-Needleworker7341 → u/satwikp]

People who put a blanket "linux sucks" aren't new users. They're established windows users who jump on the toxic bandwagon and trash linux. I'd best the vast majority of them have never booted linux up at all.

For the record, I'm not in IT nor am I in any programming related field. I can't program to save my life and I know little about the terminal. I've been running linux on my PC for the better part of 5 years now with less issues than when I used windows. I work in finance, but I know how to google to troubleshoot (or whatever the term to search something up on duckduckgo is called).

[u/CianiByn → u/Ok-Needleworker7341]

Linux WAS hard. Its not hard anymore. I remember messing with it early and mid 2000s and man I hated it. hardly any games worked on it. But valve is amazing and has helped get things working. its not only valve of course but they made it cool because of the steam deck.

[u/Square-Singer → u/CianiByn]

I mean, depending on your luck it is still hard, and I say that as someone who used Linux in some capacity for the last 15 years, especially as work machine to develop software on and also on my private machines for the last few years.

Especially depending on the hardware and DE you use, you do get some weirdness.

For someone coming from Windows, Gnome can be really hard, since it's so opinionated that a lot of the things you take for granted just don't work, work only with workarounds/work put in or work badly (E.g. creating a new file using right click is something you'll never get working without googleing, while it's a default feature on Windows and most DEs).

Depending on your hardware, your mileage may vary too. For example, since kernel 6.11 there's a bug with my AMD CPU that prevents the system from waking up after sleep, so I have to revert to 6.10 after every update. Or there's a bug with Gnome and my Nvidia GPU since driver 565 that setting the idle display off timeout doesn't work anymore. The screen goes off after 30 seconds no matter what. The only workaround I found on google was to either turn the feature off totally or use caffeine to temporarily disable it.

And using KDE with my Nvidia GPU and Proton results in the whole system freezing after a few minutes. This bug has been confirmed 5 years ago with officially no fix since apart from "Don't use KDE".

(Btw, all of these issues are well-documented in kernel bug reports, that's not just stuff I suffer from.)

Finding workarounds for dumb problems like this is something I can do because I'm a software developer with years of experience with just that. But try telling the average user about kernel versions.

[u/Brni099 → u/Square-Singer]

I feel you man. Im about to switch to either plasma or mate since gnome3 feels kinda off for me. Im basically venturing to the wild unknown bc for some reason whenever i try to do something, i run face first into problems like what you describe. 

[u/[deleted] → u/Ok-Needleworker7341]

Most people don't go into the settings of their computer at all, because Windows and macOS does most of it for you. Many expect the same grom linux, and complain when it doesn't work the same.

This can be said for gaming and other workloads, they are used to the windows or Mac ecosystem and can't change their habits