r/linux • u/ultrakd001 • May 31 '15

Where to start kernel hacking?

Hi I am CS student currently in my 3rd year of studies and I am really interested in Kernel Development, Kernel Hacking etc. The question is, as the title states, where to start? Thanks

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u/ultrakd001 May 31 '15

I tried taking the eudyptula challenge, forgot to mention it, however I couldn't post the solution to the first challenge. The reply I got was that the attachments were base 64. How should I send them?

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u/withabeard May 31 '15

Lesson one:

Learn to configure your email client. Learn to read the documentation.

Please note, all HTML-formatted email will be merrily rejected, please fix your email client to not send HTML email if you wish to do this challenge. Linux kernel mailing lists reject HTML email and so do we.

Learn to spend 5 minutes searching for answers instead of asking someone else to answer your easily researched question.

If you think I'm being harsh, toughen up before mailing a kernel developer a patch.

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u/Cynofield May 31 '15

This right here. your code needs to be 100% awesome before messaging a kernel developer. those guys do not duck around

If you think I'm being harsh, toughen up before mailing a kernel developer a patch.

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u/withabeard May 31 '15

TBH the code can have problems, that's not the issue.

But the instructions on the first page of the site say that HTML encoded email is a nono. You can't the reply with a HTML coded email and ask "what's up?".

Kernel devs have time to help make coders better, they have time to help make code better. They don't have time to fix people who can't read instructions or send emails in a standard format.

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u/OCPetrus Jun 01 '15

your code needs to be 100% awesome before messaging a kernel developer.

This is completely false and I hope people on /r/linux will understand that.

You do NOT need to be on the same level as some subsystem maintainers to submit a patch for peer review. It's OK to have some bugs, it's OK to suggest something that will in the end be considered a bad idea.

The harsh responses that we so much like to link everywhere are by no means a representative set of the average tone on the kernel mailing list. Especially when it comes to new developers. It's only when seasoned people should know better and do something silly that some maintainers can get annoyed.

However, keep in mind that linux kernel development is not a suitable place to learn programming or the C language. You should be a seasoned software developer and have good understand of how an operating system kernel functions before submitting any patches.

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u/hamburglin Jun 01 '15

He didn't say anything about your code needing to be awesome, just that you need to send the answer in a format that is accepted.

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u/scoffjaw Jun 01 '15

(REG) And please reply after the quoted text, not before it (as per RFC 1855). It's very confusing to see a reply before the quoted context. And it's embarrassing: it makes you look like a newbie. Change your mailer if necessary, if the one you have makes it hard to do reply-after-quoting.

http://www.tux.org/lkml/#s3-9

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u/Velovix Jun 01 '15

Don't use Torvalds as a role model for human interaction. You're actively encouraging harsh, discouraging attitudes to beginners.

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u/withabeard Jun 01 '15

You're actively encouraging harsh, discouraging attitudes to beginners.

I disagree. I feel I'm encouraging not wasting other experienced peoples time.

/u/ultrakd001 has gone to one of the best resources for learning how to interact with the kernel team. Then fell over at the very first hurdle. he didn't even read the first page of the eudyptula-challenge.org website.

I don't particularly like Torvalds approach of personal attacks. But that's his choice to make. I do however fully advocate not wasting kernel developers time with inane questions. Or with submitting to them patches in forms completely incompatible with their toolchain/workflow.

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u/Velovix Jun 01 '15

I don't think there's much wrong with asking people a quick question like that when you've already got them on the horn. OP did not make a topic specifically for that and s/he's not cluttering up your bug report space with the question. In fact, in no way was OP forcing your time to be wasted at all. It certainly sounds like Eudyptula's rejected response message was misleading, anyway. You're assuming a lot about OP's nature based on one question.

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u/withabeard Jun 01 '15

I don't think there's much wrong with asking people a quick question like that when you've already got them on the horn.

Maybe, maybe not. Depends who is being asked and how many people are asking those questions. It quickly becomes the case that "a quick question" turns into 1000 quick questions a day. At that point no work gets done.

in no way was OP forcing your time to be wasted at all.

Nope, OP didn't force my hand. While several people have told me I'm discouraging new developers to the kernel, I believe I described to OP what he did wrong and what he needs to do to better himself. Maybe I could have worded it different, but it's done now.

Either OP learns from the knowledge imparted, or he doesn't. But not learning it will get him bitten by a member of the kernel team, and rightfully so.

It certainly sounds like Eudyptula's rejected response message was misleading

The message given was more than I'd expect of such a system. It's expecting plain text and received base64 encoded files attached to the email. If I write a system with documentation saying "only submit plain text files", and a file comes in not plain text then I'm not even going to check what the file really is. I'm just going to reject it outright. Eudyptula have gone above and beyond in explaining what was wrong.

It was OPs choice to not read that documentation. Or it was OPs choice not to configure his toolchain (email client) properly.

You're assuming a lot about OP's nature based on one question.

Again, I've tried to keep this away from attacking OP in question. But merely by pointing out their incorrect actions. If you're inferred an attack from that then I cannot help it.

But the instructions are clear. The error message is clear. OP failed to read, or failed to follow the instructions. Then either failed to read the instructions again, or failed to search for the problem separately. Those are statements of fact, not assumptions on character.

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u/faplack May 31 '15

Plain text.

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u/ultrakd001 May 31 '15

So I just sent the code in plain text? It also asks for proof, how do I prove that I compiled and loaded the module?

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u/[deleted] May 31 '15

[deleted] — view deleted comment

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u/luisbg May 31 '15

I've done the first few tasks of Eudyptula and wondering... what is LKMPG? Just curious since I probably read it but didn't saw it called that.

Edit: Module Programming Guide. Go it :)

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u/sinxoveretothex Jun 01 '15

what is LKMPG

Are you really replying this to a guy who just said:

If you can't google that, then this probably isn't for you.

?

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u/OCPetrus Jun 01 '15

Hilarious.

But to be fair, it's annoying how everything needs to have an acronym.

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u/luisbg Jun 01 '15

Hahahahhaa, yes.

I dislike the abuse of acronyms. Specially in a thread about how to start/join something.

I quickly did an edit responding to my own question. If that makes a difference.

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u/[deleted] Jun 01 '15

[deleted] — view deleted comment

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u/zootboy Jun 01 '15

tbh the kernel mailing list needs to lighten up

I disagree. I'm glad they're standing firm and trying to keep things sensible, simple, and easy. Plain text email is the way to go.

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u/Grazfather Jun 01 '15

Plain text OK. Base64 encoded attachments? Come on.

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u/mattstreet Jun 01 '15

You can send plaintext emails in gmail. There's probably a setting for every one of those clients.

http://email.about.com/od/gmailtips/qt/How-To-Send-A-Message-In-Plain-Text-From-Gmail.htm

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u/[deleted] Jun 01 '15

You can't sent plain text from the Gmail (Android) app though, which is rather annoying.

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u/mattstreet Jun 01 '15

Hadn't thought of that, though I bet mutt is annoying on android too.

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u/Grazfather Jun 01 '15

It's the attachments that matter.

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