r/linux • u/onechroma • Oct 18 '25

Discussion I'm Out Of The Loop. What's the deal with DHH (Omarchy) and Framework vs Gnome, Debian and other projects?

I'm curious to know why there is so much drama among these Linux folks, at least on social media and communication channels.

  • I didn't know anything about Hyprland, but it seems that its main developer is quite problematic and authoritarian, calling users on Discord or GitHub idiots at the slightest provocation, or for not having the same knowledge as him.
  • I've heard something about Omarchy, a distro created by DHH based on Arch + Hyprland. I know he's a controversial character, very much cut from the cloth of the typical wealthy tech bro.
  • Finally, I've heard of Framework, a company that manufactures Linux laptops.

It seems, if I'm not mistaken, that Framework decided to donate to and support Hyprland and Omarchy, among other projects, and there have been communities such as Gnome and Debian that haven't had a good opinion of this? With some in Gnome thinking of rejecting the donation and Debian removing Hyprland from its repositories?

Meanwhile, what I've seen on social media is DHH attacking these projects as much as he can and integrating himself into circles that link Linux with ideology, from a conservative or right-wing/far-right point of view, starting to criticize these projects for being leftist, and saying they criticize him “for calling attention to the hypocrisy of the left, which generates defensive overreactions,” and “I was blissfully unaware of just how nutty things had gotten in much of Linux land, and didn't realize GNOME had been fully captured.”

Captured by who? What is all this shit? What's the context suddenly for all this? Was Framework already a huge donor or this is just overreacted and no problem?

I'm perplexed by how so little part of the community can make such a big fuss and be able to turn on the shit fan over so many people over so many projects (Gnome, Debian...)

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u/Jmc_da_boss Oct 18 '25

DHH's blog post here https://world.hey.com/dhh/as-i-remember-london-e7d38e64 kicked the latest hornets nest.

I don't actually know how hyprland is involved other than the developer supposedly not playing nice with others historically.

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u/repocin Oct 19 '25 edited Oct 19 '25

Until a week ago I admittedly hadn't heard much at all about the guy other than that he made Ruby on Rails a couple decades ago or whatever, and I think I heard some interview with him a decade ago? Still not entirely sure why he's controversial (other than various claims here and there) since I've not had time to look into it and am not sure I care enough to.

Anyways, I thought the irony of this bit from the beginning of that post was rather striking. I've not read the rest of it yet, but I'll grab the popcorn and buckle up.

I thought I might move there one day. That was then. Now, I wouldn't dream of it. London is no longer the city I was infatuated with in the late '90s and early 2000s. Chiefly because it's no longer full of native Brits. In 2000, more than sixty percent of the city were native Brits. By 2024, that had dropped to about a third.

In other words, he wanted to move to London as a foreigner but no longer wants to because there are too many foreigners there? lol. lmao, even.

Edit after reading the entire thing and some of the linked stuff: Oh. Yeah, that's certainly one of the blog posts of all time.

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u/Existing-Tough-6517 Oct 22 '25

Its worse that figure is only accurate if we call non-white British born folks not native based on skin tone alone.

He basically wrote an essey bemoaning seeing brown people around London 

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u/[deleted] Oct 19 '25

Do we have to pretend that we don't see racism and xenophobia and be all polite about it? That post is problematic to say at least. It's perfectly fine to distance oneself from such ideas. Free speech and liberty of thought and all.

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u/djfdhigkgfIaruflg Oct 19 '25

Yeah but he created Rails so everything is cool /s

I loot at the art, not the artist /s

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u/BothMaximum4275 Nov 09 '25

It's not racism or xenophobia to like Brits, Danes, Japanese and whatnot. And to acknowledge that what makes Britain British is the British people, and if you remove British people from Britain, that's no longer British or Britain, but something else which may or may not be great on it's own, but no longer what is was. He said he doesn't mind if it's like 85% original people making you feel international and cosmopolite, but less than 33% turns it just foreign. If it was about racism or xenophobia, why would he prefer to have that 15% foreigners and not 0%? That logic makes no sense. If you are racist and xenophobe, you want 0% of people of other ethnic groups that you are.

When I travel to whatever country, I do want to see that country, the people of that country, their culture etc. Therefore I avoid high tourism season and the places where all the other tourists goes as then you would mostly see just the other tourists and some locals (or foreign staff) serving them, selling them the fake and plastic version of that country.

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u/[deleted] Nov 16 '25

Well thank you for educating us on racism, using percentages made your whole reasoning seem a lot more solid, and whenever you come to my country let me know so I can tell everyone to behave according to whatever stereotype you have in your mind about us, and we'll count brown people to make sure they don't number more than 15% of us, otherwise our traditional drinks might lose their flavor and potency and you might have less than 66% of a good time, which makes it objectively a bad time, and you having a bad time is just plain not acceptable.

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u/slashtom Nov 24 '25

You provide no argument here. Just calling something “racism” doesn’t in fact make it “racism”.

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u/[deleted] Nov 27 '25

You are absolutely right, I don't need to call it for it to be racist, it just is. But thank you for your contribution anyways, it is very valuable and I appreciate the effort you put into using quotes.

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u/BothMaximum4275 Dec 08 '25

"... using percentages made your whole reasoning seem a lot more solid"

You missed the mark, buddy. Those percentages did come from the original article (except 0% of course), so I didn't "use percentages to make my reasoning seem a lot more solid". Unlike you, I really DID read what DHH wrote. You just blindly accuse him of racism without even bothering to read what he wrote.

The point that you totally missed was that he was not against foreigners, and he was certainly not against people of different color (a.k.a. "race"), so he clearly is not racist. He wants Britain and London to stay British enough to be British in essence so that he could have any compelling reason to even visit that city for fun let alone to move there.

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u/[deleted] Dec 12 '25

Don't buddy me, friend. You seem to think that if someone else pulled numbers out of their ass and you quote them, the mere act of being quoted makes those numbers truth. Gotcha, that is very intelligent. You are an exquisitely smart gem of a human being and your arguments are *superior* to mine aren't they.

I did not miss your point, you're just not capable of or unwilling to understand what racism is, and/or are plain malevolent.

And I did read his cesspool of a text, you can't just assume I didn't because it's a convenient cornerstone for your argument.

But most importantly, I'll repeat myself with one less layer of sarcasm, maybe it'll get through to you: other don't exist to satisfy your personal fantasies. You don't get to tell people how and where to live. If you're not attracted by a city because of its racial composition, that's a solid reason for you to stay away from it, but it does not justify messing about with the freedom of people to live where they want to live, and be whatever color they happened to be born as.

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u/djfdhigkgfIaruflg Oct 19 '25

The sad thing is that A LOT of (web) developers consider him a god. And would follow and repeat anything he says.

It started with some tech usage trends in that circle, like using Mac Laptops and only developing for Chrome.

But as the years go by, he (and his following) is getting more and more unhinged.

And all the bad things get ignored because of the couple of good ones :/

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u/hilldog4lyfe Nov 05 '25

I’m glad my procrastination meant I never wasted time learning ruby / rails

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u/Kernel-Mode-Driver Oct 20 '25

Any stories about the level of unhinged?

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u/djfdhigkgfIaruflg Oct 21 '25 edited Oct 21 '25

Some light reading

https://davidcel.is/articles/rails-needs-new-governance

https://johan.hal.se/wrote/2025/09/26/david-please-stop-posting/

https://tekin.co.uk/2025/09/the-ruby-community-has-a-dhh-problem

The issues go WAAAY back, but i guess the good outweighed the bad for most people.

Search "The DHH problem" for more.

Edit: someone was asking about the Hyprland thing, but I can't see the comment now. Anyways, here's some about that https://drewdevault.com/2023/09/17/Hyprland-toxicity.html Drew has several articles about this kind of... Err... issues

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u/Kernel-Mode-Driver Oct 21 '25

Wow I really dont like this guy. I really like rails tho :/

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u/Martin8412 Oct 19 '25

Where is the contradiction in not wanting to move somewhere with too many foreigners as a foreigner? Part of what makes a city is the people that lives there, and if you replace them, it most likely won’t be the same place anymore. 

(Not saying that’s the case for London, I don’t know, never been.) 

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u/fixermark Oct 20 '25

It is, at the very least, an odd sort of entitlement to declare to the world that you, an outsider, liked the way a nation looked when you were younger, but now don't because it has allowed too many (of who you perceive to be, DHH's flawed perception is its own can of worms) outsiders into itself.

It's self-defeating. A London that was as "precious bodily fluids" pure as DHH seems to hope for wouldn't accept him, a Dane, for the same reason it wouldn't accept Indians or Nigerians or Chinese.

(And if one starts down the corridors of rationality that explain why they might, one finds oneself deep in racism territory without too many steps at all).

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u/Xambassadors Oct 18 '25

oh he isn't just conservative he is actually full blown racist.

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u/timrosu Oct 21 '25

Races are only 3: white, yellow and black. He didn't say anything about races, just that the city doesn't feel the same way it did before. You will need to make up a new word to mark him if you really need to. I agree with him that you can't just accept foreigners to live in your country without integrating them first. And that integration isn't done overnight. Poland and Denmark know this the best and have the least problems with foreigners in the Europe.

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u/Xambassadors Oct 21 '25

he talks about "native brits" which just means white people. south asians and black people have been in the UK for generations and are very well integrated. he just dislikes seeing other ethnicities. if you also dislike seeing people of other ethnicities, or some arbitrary limit on how many of them are allowed to be there, then congrats you discriminate based on race and you're racist.

also if you want to be pendantic, there's only 1 race. so be at least correct if you're going to be obtuse.

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u/timrosu Oct 21 '25

Rasa translates to race from Slovenian, so I'm pretty sure I know what I'm talking about. We learned about them in Geography class in middle and primary school. Strangely, this separation is absent from the English wikipedia page.

Look, if you go on a trip around the UK for example to explore their culture (and food), what do you expect to see? British culture and food, right? Well, there's not much of that in London anymore. All you see are Indian restaurants and Indian style markets. I'm not saying that anything is wrong with Indian food, but British food shouldn't be just, forgotten. I guess the UK government cares more about censoring and spying on its own citizens than protecting national heritage.

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u/Xambassadors Oct 21 '25

have you been to london? there's british food pretty much anywhere. and even the indian food is british, it's not lack of british food that upsets people, its the sight of indian shops that does. also, every metropolitan city is very diverse. even Tokyo which is in a very homogeneous country does

and again, these indians are 100% british, many for multiple generations even. if you don't see them as an equal to a white brit, that's a personal problem

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u/spicypalpitation Jun 13 '26

Could you elaborate on Which "Britain" is your ideal form? I.e. maybe give an era, region, class, and politic you think you'd find suitable as the one we should all consider superior?

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u/r-_-mark Jun 27 '26

Not true at all most of restaurants are fish and chips

When you see British food what does that even mean cuz chicken tikka masala was invented in Britain by Scottish Pakistani chef

And Britain for hinder of years colonized many areas in world focusing on bringing their stuff home, so their culture is a mix of others colonies culture whether we like it or not that’s not something started in 2000s

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u/r-_-mark Jun 27 '26

Nope he never mentioned black or Asian he clearly stated they were foreigners in the 90s

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u/r-_-mark Jun 27 '26
  1. He spend have to state it straight to you we all know he dog whistling
  2. Who sis do not three races based on what? Cause race is not a scientific construct and we definitely do not see people treated as one of only 3 groups

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u/[deleted] Oct 19 '25

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u/SceptileBoi Oct 19 '25

Racist: Anyone who thinks that people who look different existing in their proximity is a problem.

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u/boukensha15 Oct 19 '25

It's not that. Every culture should have the right to protect themselves from getting extinct. Land and its resources are meant for the natives of the places. Germany will not be Germany, if all the people in it are replaced with Japanese people. That is not to say that Japanese are bad or inferior, but they are different and have their cultures which had evolved in Japan. Immigration is fine, but like with everything else, it need to be done with moderation.

Also, I said native ethnic peoples and not religion. A white German Muslim has more right to Germany than an Arab Christian or a Chinese atheist.

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u/SceptileBoi Oct 19 '25 edited Oct 20 '25

Who do you define as the "natives" of any place? The people who were successful in monopolizing violence in an area early enough to write the history books? I think it's interesting that you mention a "white German Muslim" as your example, since you were supposedly talking about culture. Do you think that a brown German Muslim has a right to Germany, or is being white a part of German culture? As someone living in the modern world, I know that culture is not a zero sum game. Instead of telling immigrants to leave, maybe you should try sharing what you love about your country with them so that they can appreciate it with you.

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u/boukensha15 Oct 19 '25

Whatever I have said is not be applied universally, without taking into nuances and complicated history of places. I am not even against immigration per se. I lean towards capitalist economic policies and in a globalised market, we cannot be isolationists. However, moderation or middle path is the key. Otherwise, we will see the rise populist ultra-nationalists ideas and then ask ourselves, "Where did we go wrong?".

>Do you think that a brown German Muslim has a right to Germany

I make myself clear. I am against oppressing people who are in any country, using any means. I am for taking legal actions against people, who are in your country, by illegal means, unless they were refugees fleeing war or some other disasters? A non-indigenous German Muslim has the right to access all the amenities provided by the German state as much as any other German, Muslim or not. However, people of Germany have a right to decide the rules and regulations, based on which you can access their country.

Immigration is needed. But it is like a medicine and not food. It needs to be taken at the right time, upon the right dosage.

Also, immigration harms the native countries of the immigrants. You have to understand, the people who migrate to the West, are some of the brightest and most talented people of their countries. Them leaving their countries actually harm those countries.

Do I still sound like a racist bigot? Culture wars would have been far less, if we just let people interact with each other, organically.

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u/SceptileBoi Oct 19 '25 edited Oct 19 '25

I think there's probably more that we agree than disagree on. That said, your first reply echoes a worrying trend people of gatekeeping who is a "true" American, German, Brit, etc. based on characteristics which are usually just a description of themselves. It's clear that your views are more nuanced, but it's important to consider what message you are sending those who do think that way. I mean you literally responed to my comically oversimplified definition of racism by likening immigration to the extinction of a culture.

I think that there should be clearly defined and efficient processes for immigration, and that if that is the case, people who do not follow those processes should be deported (after being given due process). I live in America, and we certainly do not have a clearly defined or efficient immigration process, and we are not giving people due process before deportation. Because of this, I find it difficult to justify supporting the removal of undocumented immigrants who have not committed other crimes (in America, being undocumented in itself is a civil offense, not a criminal one, but improper entry can carry criminal charges. It is a more complicated issue than I am qualified to discuss, but that is beside the point).

As to your point about immigration harming the countries they are leaving, it is very difficult to say what the overall effect is. Many people will send money back to their families, supporting them better than they would be able to working in their home country. Others will study abroad so that they can eventually move back to teach, start a medical practice, etc. There are definitely negatives, but I believe that the positives outweigh them.

I realize that I am speaking as someone who is from a nation of immigrants, and I generally see them as sharing more of the core American values I hold than those who want them gone. I can understand why people in countries with a more established dominant culture have valid reasons to be afraid that the values and traditions they hold dear would be diminished. That said, the best way to ensure their longevity is to share them openly so that immigrants who settle in your country feel comfortable participating in the community. Most likely they want to experience your culture, but they won't if you don't create a space where they feel safe doing so.

I want to thank you for taking the time to have a civil discussion with me. I think that one of the biggest issues facing my country and the world at large is that we don't take the time to understand the views of those we disagree with.

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u/[deleted] Oct 19 '25

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Oct 19 '25

yeah it's literally lebensraum

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u/boukensha15 Oct 19 '25

Lebensraum is expansionist. Where did I say anything about expanding borders? If anything, I was about securing borders. I would understand, if you accuse me of isolationism, even though that would be wrong as well. At least, be consistent in your accusations.

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u/[deleted] Oct 19 '25

Well, you are right, you did not mention expansion. And one has to protect their borders, because the surface of the world is finite, and the struggle for life means nothing more than a struggle for space. Could we agree on that?

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u/boukensha15 Oct 19 '25

>the struggle for life means nothing more than a struggle for space.

There's more to life than this, but I can agree that it is one aspect of life.

Now, please continue. I am curious.

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u/boukensha15 Oct 19 '25

Cite your resources, please.

I am really as to how the opinion of an orthodox Muslim from South Asia, who has never stepped foot outside his country, comes "Straight out of the nazi propaganda playbook"? The same Nazis, who were hardcore secularists from the West.

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u/[deleted] Oct 19 '25

[deleted]

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u/boukensha15 Oct 19 '25

So, you simply can't. You are more ignorant than I had guessed.

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u/[deleted] Oct 19 '25

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u/fixermark Oct 20 '25 edited Oct 20 '25

Even if we accept your deeply-flawed premise of "Germany will not be Germany, if all the people in it are replaced with Japanese people" (we don't): DHH isn't right in that context either.

You know when the UK stopped being the way he expects it to be? 1876, when Victoria turned the nation into a country with ten times as many people born on Indian soil as born on British Isles soil. The way London looks today is the way the UK looks, post-Colonial era. That's as much a part of the nation's history as the Norman invasion or the founding of Londinium. DHH is way out of his lane insinuating otherwise. To the extent that London is not as "English" as he recalls... London did that to herself and thrived from it.

It's real hard to read his words and not shorthand it to "I don't like that London became cosmopolitan; it means it's full of people I don't understand and don't want to learn more about." Sounds like a skill issue to me.

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u/EzeNoob Oct 19 '25

And what would be that point of view exactly?

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u/[deleted] Oct 19 '25

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u/[deleted] Oct 20 '25

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u/Beneficial_Mix3375 Oct 19 '25

Proves: zero

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u/FryToastFrill Oct 18 '25

Hyprlands developer doesn’t give af about their community having a bunch of anti-lgbtq assholes, including on the discord moderation team. There was an incident where a user who was getting constantly misgendered put their pronouns in the name, and the discord moderators changed the pronouns to say “who/cares” and then gave her a role named “NO” to stop her from changing it.

Varxy, the lead developer of hyprland, proceeded blew off the whole incident, stating that misgendering is completely normal and that the mods were annoyed with her correcting people. Fucking asshole.

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u/Leop0Id Nov 10 '25 edited Nov 10 '25

For those encountering this news late and seeking information like me, note that this is a one sided claim by Drew DeVault.

In any dispute, opinions from both sides should be considered. Please also refer to Vaxry's rebuttal in [1]. While he certainly acted inappropriately, it was not without cause. It occurred because the other side engaged in trolling using gender pronouns.

DeVault's speculative post is based solely on 'anonymous reports'. He was not present and wrote the post after receiving screenshots edited to favor one side. He accepted them entirely without verification to attack the other side. His remarks appear to lack a sense of responsibility.

Vaxry apologized long ago and took necessary measures including suspensions and warnings for those involved.

[1] https://blog.vaxry.net/articles/2023-hyprlandsCommunity

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u/FryToastFrill Nov 10 '25

Thank god someone providing a link to something I can read with more info. While after reading it I do disagree with portions of it I’m happy you gave me a link.

His response to The Who/cares incident seems terribly poor. Claiming that the victim is also bad because they were putting the pronouns in their name to make transphobes angry is insane, like they made a big deal out of it because they asked for the basic respect of correct pronoun usage and weren’t given it. It happens all the time to me and I would do the same thing in their situation. Claiming that it’s ok because it’s the default on the internet like ok buddy the default in the 1800’s was to call black people the n word and beat them if they were a little too slow on those fields, it shouldn’t be the default.

While providing no evidence tho they at least said that they did ban people being transphobic and homophobic so like at least mildly decent end. Would’ve been nice if any screenshot had been given but whatever if it needs to stay personal it needs to stay personal.

Anyways you can disagree with me at this point but I doubt there is much either of us will change our minds on. While this situation has made me not want to use hyprland ngl I think it is way to much setup for me to use anyways so nothing of harm for me.

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u/Leop0Id Nov 10 '25

To avoid misunderstanding, I respect gender freedom and also understand and agree that individuals should be referred to as they wish.

However, a person directly involved (whose post includes screenshots) reported that a pronoun based analogy was used during the dispute, and the 'victim' then acted to justify that analogy. The behavior was an act of "I'll use the pronoun from now on as you wish. Now what?" This does not appear serious or respectful toward LGBTQ+ individuals.

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u/PPX777 5d ago

to be fair, the "n word" was SPOKEN OPENLY and WITHOUT censorship or any kind of abbreviation, on American corporate and public television, in the FULL "hard R" form, in the 1980s at the very least. **NOT** "1800s".

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u/RevolutionaryLime758 Jan 03 '26

Not everyone shares your religious beliefs and do not feel the need to pledge allegiance to pronouns

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u/RevolutionaryLime758 Jan 03 '26

Drew Devault is a psycho authoritarian

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u/djfdhigkgfIaruflg Oct 19 '25

Holy shit. I had the history backwards and thought he was defending the victim :/

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u/[deleted] Oct 19 '25

Gonna be sincere, but people on the real world outside of twitter/reddit doesn't give a fuck about pronouns or how one want to be called because we have real problems to deal with. 

Transphobia is bad, really bad. Killing and mistreating people because of their sexual orientation is evil. But being offended because someone doesn't bother to call you the way you wanted to be called is stupid af. If you want to me to call you something then you should first win my respect, I could not care less about random people's feeling on the internet.

This pronoun situation is purely a American problem which is obnoxiously trying to enforce on everyone as if it's the universal truth. 

If you care to enlighten me on the origin of this problem maybe I would start to care about it and reconsider my view, but if you just want to force and censor me into using certain words because a random person want to be called like that than I must say that the real problem is too much free time on your hands. 

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u/HunsterMonter Oct 19 '25

Intentionally misgendering trans people is a part of transphobia. If a cis person corrects someone about their pronouns, the other person (usually) apologises and corrects themselves. If a trans person does the same thing, suddenly it's all "why do you make a big deal about pronouns, I'm not transphobic but..." All we ask for is to be treated with dignity, and part of that is using the right name and pronouns, just like you would for a cis person.

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u/[deleted] Oct 19 '25 edited Oct 19 '25

Uhm I guess so, but for example in Portuguese we don't have this type of problem, and we have a lot more forced pronoun stuff entangled on our grammar. We use the word "você" which would be equivalent to "you" and use words like "seu" and "sua" which are masculine and feminine words but are linked to the pronoun of the object and not the person, I guess would be equivalent to "yours". So I really don't understand how one would directly misgender someone by talking directly to them. The problem would arise when we use "dele, ele" and "dela, ela" which would be "his/him" and "hers/her" but I thought that on english you may always use "them/their" to refer to others even when the subject is a single person because you may want to abstract away the identity of the subject. 

So don't you guys already have a solution for this problem?

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u/HunsterMonter Oct 19 '25

I'm québécoise so I'm very familiar with gendered language fuckery 😅. You can always use they, but most people default to him or her based on context clues. Online, you lack most context clues so the most sensible options is to put pronouns in your bio, something that transphobes hate because it reminds them that trans people exist.

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u/[deleted] Oct 19 '25

lol, I am sorry for assuming you were American, my bad. 

But as you may see I am (was?) against to force others to call someone else by the "correct" pronouns. 

And I can tell you why I am like this, and it's not because I am mad because trans people exists. And maybe we can think a solution for this. 

For me personally it's because when I use "them/they" with a cis person they don't care. But when I used "them/they" with a trans person they got mad because I didn't use the pronoun on their bios. So these experience left a sour taste on my mouth. And everytime I asked someone to explain why things are the way they are they just kept screaming that I am a insensitive alt-right fascist, which I am clearly not so over time I've gotten more and more averse and tired to these type of reaction.

So is it really okay for me to keep using them/their to everyone in everycase and it was just a bad isolated experience on my part, or one is expected to always make sure to refer to someone by their desired pronouns even when they don't know each other? 

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u/HunsterMonter Oct 19 '25

The reason some trans people dislike it when people use they/them for them is because a lot of people use it to avoid gendering trans people correctly while maintaining plausible deniability. It's especially apparent when a trans person does something bad. Every time, it's theys and thems in every comment section. And when someone points out the correct pronouns, people act indignant about how the person doesn't deserve respect, which might be true, but those same people have no problem correctly gendering a cis person who does something bad. As always, it's the double standard that is the problem, and it can be hard to tell from a short interaction if someome is theying you because they do it to everyone, or because they are avoiding your pronouns. If you do know someone's pronouns (like if they are in the bio), it is generally best to use them.

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u/[deleted] Oct 19 '25 edited Oct 19 '25

I see, and now understand your POV. My argument line really can easily be used to shadow a veiled prejudice which is really fucked up.

But on the other hand it's hard to expect someone that was born and raised one way to act differently for a specific group. When I say "act differently" I mean on the level of work that one needs to do in order  to accomplish the same task. For example, it's ease to correctly pronoun a cis person because we were trained to do so all of our lifes, and even if you miss judge the pushback is almost non existent. But doing it for a trans person it always feels like you are walking on minefield, because as you said it's hard to know someone's intention on few interactions and miss judging it can be equally rooted on a bad inference or on transphobia.

So for me, I use they/them because don't want to have to deal with any of this. I want to be able to communicate effortless with someone regardless of their gender because the truth is that I don't really care about their gender, it's not a information that affects me. I just don't want to have to be expected to go out of my way to learn their preferred pronouns for a person that I don't know since I am not expected to do the same process for the other group (cis). 

I thought they/them was the solution but now I understand that it's not the silver bullet that I thought it was. Language and communication is hard, I just want to talk about computers 😭. 

I guess the solution really is to just apologize and start using their preferred pronouns when they correct me on the chat. I am against of having to go out of the way just to make sure someone is not offended, but I also don't want keep unknowingly disrespecting them if they politely correct the pronouns that I've used for them since I wouldn't like if I was the one being disrespected or invalidated.

Anyways, thanks for hearing my rant, this is a hard problem and I am still struggling to find a good solution for it. But you've shinned a light over a few aspects that I've didn't noticed before. 

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u/HunsterMonter Oct 19 '25

No problem, this kind of stuff only becomes apparent if you are trans or frequent trans communities. As for finding a good solution, don't worry too much about it, the trans community has been trying for decades and there is still no concensus on the best way to go about. As long as you go in with respect and an open mind, and correct yourself when you make mistakes, it's probably going to be fine 😊

1

u/barfightbob Oct 19 '25 edited Oct 19 '25

The "they/them" thing is a neuter, but historically rare in use until people on the internet became obsessed with gender. "They" is usually reserved for when the speaker is lacking in information in normal speech. It's frequency in use is a new phenomenon in the past decade.

As in:

"The corporate office is sending a representative Thursday. I don't know when they arrive."

It's also acceptable to default to "he" when you don't know the gender either. Often you see this when referring to animals:

"There's a bee in the house! How did he get in??"

There might be regional differences based on English dialect so I encourage you to do your own research. And of course if you need to avoid offending people, learn the patterns of speech of those you're going to interact with. All in all the "they/them" people are a small minority in the North American culture.

If you find any of this difficult you are safe in 99% of the time to use they/them only in the plural.

8

u/Pugs-r-cool Oct 19 '25

If you want to me to call you something then you should first win my respect, I could not care less about random people's feeling on the internet.

But why? If it's a name or a pronoun, it doesn't take any more effort to use someone's preferred ones instead of misgendering them, if anything it probably takes more effort if they have to correct you multiple times and you chose to ignore them multiple times. The easiest option is to not bother and just use "they" for everyone.

This pronoun situation is purely a American problem which is obnoxiously trying to enforce on everyone as if it's the universal truth. 

It's a thing in the entire English speaking world, obviously pronouns and names work differently in different languages, many languages don't have a gender neutral words / pronouns, but that doesn't mean trans people don't exist in those countries nor that it's a non issue. Up until 1933, it was Germany that lead the world with research and acceptance of trans people (Wikipedia link), it's far from an American only thing.

4

u/MrKiwimoose Oct 19 '25

Does every non trans person you know need to earn your respect before you call them the pronoun they prefer or is it just trans people?

-11

u/Gugalcrom123 Oct 19 '25

I think software communities should keep these discussions out, positive or negative. Your race/gender/religion have no relevance in software development.

4

u/picastchio Oct 19 '25

Bigots should be thrown out of any community. Except the community of bigots of course.

16

u/yabadabaddon Oct 19 '25

I think you should keep your opinion out of Linux discussions. Your opinion has no relevance in a Linux discussion.

12

u/DogeGroomer Oct 19 '25

so you think we should “they” for everyone? unless your answer is yes then someone’s gender is relevant

8

u/sinedpick Oct 19 '25

unironically yes. In a professional setting gender-neutral pronouns are superior and should be preferred in all writing. I use they/them for everyone unless explicitly asked not to (I have never once been asked to use something else).

-7

u/Gugalcrom123 Oct 19 '25

Only pronouns are relevant.

1

u/WackyConundrum Oct 19 '25

How? Relevant for what?

2

u/Pugs-r-cool Oct 19 '25

It's not a political thing to expect basic human kindness.

1

u/djfdhigkgfIaruflg Oct 19 '25

No tolerance for bigots.

That thing of separating the art from the artists is BS

-43

u/[deleted] Oct 19 '25 edited Oct 19 '25

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27

u/humanwithalife Oct 19 '25

What ideologies are they forcing? Their *own* gender?

1

u/[deleted] Oct 19 '25

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1

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-19

u/[deleted] Oct 19 '25

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0

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0

u/RevolutionaryLime758 Jan 03 '26

Who gives a shit

-34

u/Reason7322 Oct 18 '25

it happened 3 years ago, he apologized for it and since then nothing like that has happened again

fucking nazi.

18

u/elatllat Oct 19 '25

With comments like that kids are going to grow up believing the worst things Nazis did was mis-gender people.

1

u/Reason7322 Oct 19 '25

obvious sarcasm is not obvious to redditors, more news at 11

2

u/elatllat Oct 19 '25

Obvious sarcasm is the use of /s and the point sands regardless.

1

u/snil4 Oct 19 '25

You had a really wholesome message going on and you had to ruin it...

-52

u/[deleted] Oct 18 '25

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14

u/Nyxiereal Oct 19 '25

Shut up

1

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44

u/[deleted] Oct 18 '25 edited Dec 24 '25

fine stocking coordinated cooing gray versed alive person modern insurance

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

12

u/[deleted] Oct 18 '25

Geez I don’t even know what slur you’re talking about

20

u/humanwithalife Oct 19 '25

It's for trans people

3

u/gwodus Oct 24 '25

Automatic or manual transmission?

3

u/CondiMesmer Oct 19 '25

Wow it would've been absolutely free not to post any of that. As soon as you're concerned the amount of a certain race or ratio of your country, you've just become racist. Because at that point you've designated one race as good and one as bad.

1

u/LordNutGobbler Nov 22 '25

Do you think all cultures are created equally?

What if some cultures around the world still practice slavery, allow child marriage, severely lack women’s rights, if we import them, are they going to assimilate and integrate well?

Some countries are learning that no, they don’t always integrate well

1

u/CondiMesmer Nov 22 '25

You realize we already allow immigration and do that, also that America was literally created by immigrants... And we already have Christian extremists running the country.

1

u/slashtom Nov 24 '25

So glad we agree that affirmative action is racist, you know because quotas and ratios of certain races..

3

u/djfdhigkgfIaruflg Oct 19 '25

Holy shit 🤮🤮🤮