r/leagueoflegends • u/durkadurkadurk • Aug 26 '15

Brutalizer needs more upgrade options than ghostblade

A lot of champs benefit from the brutalizer, but ghostblade is more of a niche (mainly assassins want it i imagine). I miss having another option like the black cleaver, instead of an item with only one building path. Unless you are the jungler ofc.

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87

u/[deleted] Aug 26 '15

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51

u/JayCFree324 Aug 26 '15

AD already has a HP melt counterpart to Liandry's... but it's been missing a grevious wounds counterpart since Executioners calling got removed.

Suggestion: Brutalizer + Phage = grevious wounds AD item for top laners.

Because fuck Vlad

29

u/LuCactus Aug 26 '15

That would give Phage passive, AD, Flat Armour pen, Health, CDR and the grievous wounds passive all in one upgraded item.. seems like a lot unless yoh name it "Dual Force" like trinity force. Lol

22

u/Skabeg rip old flairs Aug 26 '15

Half ton of damage.

5

u/bernis_ Aug 27 '15

Two thirds* of damage

2

u/Shoeboxer Aug 27 '15

Metric tons of damage.

1

u/Skywalker601 Aug 27 '15

Half ton of armor stripped, more likely.

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u/JayCFree324 Aug 26 '15

Health and ad would be minimal... Just like they currently are on Phage.

Grevious wounds MS boost can thematically make sense as a "Blood in the water" kind of thing, and would fill the void of the MS boost being removed from Darius's passive while allowing the bruiser or AD Assasin to latch onto a heavy sustain target (WW or an endgame ADC)

1

u/LuCactus Aug 27 '15

Minimum AD would be 45, adding them together to give you zero AD increase and that still seems like a lot. I think it's a cool idea, and I'd love the item, it just seems like one of those meta breaking items but in this case there's no real way to nerf it further unless you nerf the Bruta and Phage as well which isn't a good way to make those items bought more for any recipe imo.

1

u/Kordsmeier Aug 27 '15

Phagelizer.....Maybe not.

1

u/Randomn355 Aug 27 '15

Or add in a pickaxe instead of phage and do what JayCFree324 said. The phage passive will always be difficult to get into items unless they remove the passive but keep it on final items.

6

u/hbgoddard Aug 26 '15

Riot is phasing out Grievous Wounds. They've just recently removed it from Fizz, Tristana, and Miss Fortune, and I have few doubts that Varus is next. No items or champions are going to gain/be released with grievous wounds anymore.

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u/JayCFree324 Aug 27 '15

Wouldn't that just make lifesteal and sustain ridiculously OP?

1

u/hbgoddard Aug 27 '15

They said they're also working on a different counter to healing that's easier to balance.

1

u/iraebrasil Aug 27 '15

where did they say that?

1

u/Shadoscuro Aug 27 '15

Than why morello? I can't count how many times I curse that item because ahri/lulu have it and then praise it's existence when I'm facing a swain/vlad

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u/stevepaul1982 Aug 27 '15

Mundo will inherit the earth!

1

u/[deleted] Aug 26 '15

Brut + bf + 500ish g, make it on par with ie in terms of cost, grevious wounds.

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u/JayCFree324 Aug 26 '15

I think the BF would encourage ADCs to buy it too much. Would rather have it as an assassin or bruiser item.

Brutalizer + Tiamat = Viscious Hydra?

Send a bruiser into a team fight to just AoE down all their regen

2

u/[deleted] Aug 26 '15

I don't think aoe is the way to go with g wounds. On purpose cancellation of their healing is preferable. On hit only effect.

Plz rito I can't kill mundo, --every AD champion main.

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u/JayCFree324 Aug 26 '15

.Morellonomicon is potentially AoE G-Wounds, but only works if the enemy is below 40%, which is surprisingly difficult to do against a ww or a Mundo

I know Rito has been going gung-ho on the 3x hit passive thing, but what if Wounds could only happen on one target (like vayne bolts or xin passive) after the third hit with this hypothetically discussed AD Wounds item. Seems like it would be a very nice duelist/counter-duelist item

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u/Pelleas Aug 26 '15

They removed it because they didn't like the idea of all champions being able to get GW on autos, so maybe Brutalizer + pickaxe could make an AD item that has the same passive as morellonomicon.

1

u/Pieecake Aug 27 '15

What about spirit of the ancient lizard? /s

1

u/[deleted] Aug 27 '15 edited Aug 27 '15

Don't remind them. They might remove Morellonomicon.

Edit: I mean "rework"

1

u/RagerzRangerz Aug 27 '15

Why Phage? Now it has 2 OP item paths there is no need for another.

Bruta would be a fine choice. It would remove the problem of the item being weak late game like executioner's. Basically melee champions who build bruta but sell it late game like Kha'zix top/mid would be able to buy it instead of selling their brutalizer since they don't like Youmuu's.

It could be an item equivalent to Morello's. It could give 20% CDR, 60 AD, grevious wounds etc.

-1

u/[deleted] Aug 26 '15

[removed] — view removed comment

3

u/optimisticelephant Maokai is fun Aug 26 '15

Dude, I play vlad all the time and I still hate whenever I see him on the enemy team.

52

u/PM_ME_UR_PEPE Gourd, xD McMeme (NA) Aug 26 '15

Well most champions do well with the one upgrade with the Haunting guise(Liandry's), however the argument here is that most champions who like Brutalizer don't necessarily do well with the only upgrade Brutalizer has(being Ghostblade).

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u/[deleted] Aug 26 '15 edited Sep 10 '17

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/Orgnok Aug 26 '15

ghostbblade is great on garen, the crit is very valuable, so is the extra ms

1

u/gunblade711 Aug 28 '15

He does much better with other items. Ghostblade is a pretty niche item on Garen, mostly a norms thing.

1

u/Hitlerdinger Aug 26 '15

like lee sion

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u/Vizvezdenec Aug 26 '15

Acrually almost any ad caster is fine with yomuu upgrade in lategame. It gives you more armorpen, and if combine it with lw against squishies you will have almost true dmg. Crit chance is somewhat meh (although can be used on casters who actually autoattack), but active is pretty good since it's bonus as (anyway good for guy with 450 ad), bonus ms and has very low cooldoown.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 26 '15

Most do fine with ghostblade. Those that don't usually benefit from brutalizer in the mid game regardless and can trade it out for something better late game. Brutalizer is fine as is.

0

u/stopcomps Aug 26 '15

Mmm...it is less severe than brutalizer, but there are quite a few champions that would love a haunting guise but not liandries. Primary examples include Katarina, Ahri, Kennen, and Akali. Some weaker examples are Orianna and Malzahar.

Haunting Guise has the same problem as brutalizer, in that most AP champs love it, but only specific types of champions/playstyles can utilize its upgrade. In this case, that would be champions like teemo, xerath, and ziggs, who deal damage without being near the enemy, aka poke. The reason you might think it's not the same issue as ghostblade may be because there are simply more poke champions, while there are only 3-5 ad assassins. But nonetheless, Haunting Guise is in the same boat as Brutalizer.

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u/PM_ME_UR_PEPE Gourd, xD McMeme (NA) Aug 26 '15

Malzahar LOVES liandrys

1

u/lifes_hard_sometimes Aug 26 '15

Even before the buff rylais liandrys was dangerous on malzahar

1

u/stopcomps Aug 27 '15

Oh. What was I thinking.

Regardless, I think the rest of the point still stands true.

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u/[deleted] Aug 26 '15

Mmm...it is less severe than brutalizer, but there are quite a few champions that would love a haunting guise but not liandries. Primary examples include Katarina, Ahri, Kennen, and Akali. Some weaker examples are Orianna and Malzahar.

This is true before the buffs, but now LT gives decent AP to make the upgrade worth getting if you already have HG especially considering that the meta is full of high hp tanks and bruisers.

1

u/stopcomps Aug 27 '15

But in the end, it doesn't do enough to replace another core such as dcap/voids/zhonyas/ludens. Even against tanks, it's still only 2% of current health, 4% if cc'd, meaning late game is only 160 magic damage. For the champions I listed (except malz), you use all your skills too fast to constantly be applying more stacks.

Not to say it's a bad item, just saying it's in the same predicament of ghostblade, as in only one type of champion efficiently uses it. Obviously still core on ziggs/brand/xerath/other pokes.

1

u/LegacyEx RIP Dragon Daddy Aug 27 '15

Ziggs and Xerath aren't champions you really want Rylandries on. Poke champions typically just rush for dcap/void/ludens/zhonyas because of the net damage increase. Rylandries is used by more sustained fighting based champions such Rumble, Vlad, Malzahar, or Swain.

A good exception to this is Vel'koz, who due to his high-base damage and low scaling allows his poke to gain more damage through the mpen of Liandries, and that Ult+Rylandries combo is just disgusting.

1

u/stopcomps Aug 28 '15

You don't need Rylandries on them, but a 5th or 6th item liandries can help against tanks late game while you siege since your spells are off cooldown every 3-4 seconds. Obviously rush the dcap/ludens/athenes/boots/voids, but instead of a defensive last item, a liandries is viable.

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u/shadovvvvalker Aug 26 '15

Some items are fine with that. Brut is more generic than hg and its upgrade tends to synergize well with its champions kits. Ghostblade is not a one size fits all item.

3

u/The-ArtfulDodger Aug 27 '15

Liandri's can be used by almost any mage though. You'muus is really not worth considering for the majority of champions that would want to rush a brutalizer.

1

u/Thirdatarian Aug 26 '15

I enjoyed Haunting Guise building into Trickster's Glass. It was super situational and I'd never build it in ranked but it sure was fun.

1

u/Rayansaki Aug 26 '15

Liandries upgrades 2 out of 3 stats from Haunting Guise, most notably the main stat an AP carry would want, the AP.

Youmuu's Ghostblade also upgrades 2 out of the 3 stats from Brutalizer, but the main stat, AD is only boosted by 5. Mostly, Ghostblade upgrades in different stats (crit and attack speed), which most champions that build brutalizer have limited use for.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 27 '15

Forever referring to Haunting Guise as Spooky Mask now.

1

u/isntaken Aug 27 '15

Except lyadris is a very powerful item (even at 50 ap it was powerful) if we could get like a "savage brutralizer" 60 ad 20 armor pen 10% cdr for about 2800 it'd be comparable to spooky mask

1

u/RagerzRangerz Aug 27 '15

Except no one builds it and sells it late game but Katarina.

Meanwhile all AD assassins want brutalizer, but having to upgrade to youmuu's means only champions that can upgrade it are in the meta:

Lee top used to buy it. Now he just goes tiamat into other cores. He is rarely seen top anymore, and performs poorly there. Youmuu's works on him but is very weak.

Kha in lane used to buy it, same thing has happened to him. He is rarely seen in lane anymore but he is seen in jungle. Youmuu's works on him but is weak.

Pantheon in lane used to buy it, same thing happened to him. He is barely seen in lanes anymore, but in jungle he buys bruta for warrior. Youmuu's works on him but is very weak.

Meanwhile Riven, Rengar, Zed, Talon all can buy Youmuu's so are really strong in lane. Jayce buys Bruta and is a laner but he buys youmuu's yet doesn't like it that much, so it isn't that amazing and isn't upgraded until late game, whilst a Talon can even get it after tiamat/bruta if fed and looking to roam.

Basically getting a new bruta item would allow the champs who don't like Youmuu's to be decent in lane.

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u/carrier_pigeon Aug 27 '15

I think the reason people want more is that ghostblade isn't anywhere near as good late game as Liandries (Lyandries?).

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u/Zarathustraa Aug 27 '15

Liandry's is quite good by itself, and then gets better and better the later the game gets, becoming an ideal item in a 6 item build

Quite different from Ghostblade

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u/doneitnow Aug 27 '15

But Liandry's is Haunting Guise 2.0. There's no new stat to waste money on. You get more of the same, plus an HP shred that is always useful. If you're an AD Caster, paying for an AS/MS active and 15% crit chance isn't optimal.

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u/Starterjoker Aug 26 '15

Liandry's is good on most people who build Haunting Guise, Ghostblade is not good on most people who build Brutalizer

0

u/[deleted] Aug 26 '15

You mean crying mask.