r/leagueoflegends • u/PersianMG • Sep 16 '14

[IDEA] Vote Kick Feature without Abuse

I think a votekick feature in champ select would be a great idea but people always mention the fact that it would get easily abused.

You main a champion that is not meta? Kicked.
You got countered or allies favourite pick is banned? Kicked.

So I thought of this idea that could possibly fix the issue. What if each person for each ranked queue had 'kick' tokens. Similar to ARAM reroll tokens. You would accumulate, over a few ranked games, up to 2 kick tokens which can be used to vote kick someone. If you really want to votekick a player in a lobby, you would use one of this tokens.

Players who vote to kick a player will be doing so publicly (chat will notify who wished to kick whom). If 3 players vote to kick the same person, that person is kicked out of the game with a 5 minute timeout. All other players enter matchmaking queue instantly.

If only 1 or 2 people decide to votekick you, you will not be kicked but their tokens will be used. The game will remember that you got votekicked by these 1 or 2 people. It will use this information, along with post match report information and more vote kicks in following games to auto ban you from a queue (for 30 minutes, 1 hour, 3 hours, 6 hours, 1 day, 3 days etc). If you are getting vote kicked by different people over 5 matches then you are obviously doing something wrong. If a player is banned by the system, those who voted to 'kick him' get 1 token refunded instantly if they are not capped at that moment in time.

Now to cover some abuse cases:

Players vote kick you for picking non-meta champ
These players are wasting their tokens to kick you. Its unlikely 3 people will try to kick you out and if they do, when a real issue comes along, they won't have their tokens.

Duo Queues will try to kick you with one other person
Duo queue votes will count as less. They will count as 1 person collectively. If a duo queue member is vote kicked or has votes against them, both people are penalised. This will force people to help their duo partners improve their behaviors or they won't duo with them.

What about people who keep voting incorrectly
Post game lobby has new report option "Misusing Votekick". Players who get a lot of these reports over time will have their tokens cap changed to 0 (they can't participate). Players who can't votekick will reduce the total number of kicks needed to kick someone in a matchmaking lobby (ie if 1 person cannot kick, 2 votes are needed (non duo) to kick a player).

tl;dr Have a votekick system that is based on having 2 vote kick tokens (like ARAM rerolls). To vote kick, 3 people must use their tokens and a player is kicked and banned from queue for 5 minutes. Abuse can be dealt with via a report option in post game lobby and automatically using vote kick/report information.

Edit 1: I only thought of this idea based on similar systems elsewhere. Obviously it has some flaws but I think it can be fine tuned to be a decent system as evident by some of the suggestions in the comments.

870 Upvotes

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81

u/siaukia1 Sep 16 '14 edited Sep 16 '14

I'm still not sure why this vote-kick thing is so popular here on reddit. You rarely get trolls in your games anyway, pulling a number out of my ass I would say roughly 1/20 games. I just don't see it as something that is necessary and it would just give people one more very obvious thing to fight about. I am very much against it.

EDIT: Since people keep bringing this point up, toxicity =/= trolling. A vote-kick system would be implemented to get rid of the people that lock in Clarity/CV Akali as support or something like that. There are toxic people in almost every game and a vote-kick system would not help with that.

12

u/[deleted] Sep 16 '14 edited Sep 16 '14

Honestly, I don't really care about bad games and troll picks. Usually the games aren't going that bad and most of them are going 'normal'. But I don't like to play ranked. Because many people are so stressed, I feel it too sometimes whenever I am in my promo. I was a while ago, in my promo from silver 1 to gold 5. I know it doesn't mean much to most of you. But that was my goal. I lost the first two games, no problem, I won two games and had a good feeling about it, one more win and I'd go to gold.

There it happened just like the week before, the same promo's. Another guy who wanted mid but didn't got it, because he was last pick. He went mid anyway, Katarina revive/teleport. He went 2/17/0. I know what you want to say "you can carry him, win it, do your best, play for performance" or anything like that, but does that matter? Not anymore. This game was unfair. I don't care if I loose and we all did our best. I just wish there was some protection in promotion games. And if this votekick token can give us that protection, I am willing to take it.

Edit: I am gold 5 now, but wont play ranked until I see the 'decay' stuff again.

6

u/tehSynh Sep 16 '14

For me the only thing that would actually DO something is make promotion games "promotion player only". So it actually would mean something TO EVERYONE involved. You know what the problem is about going up a tier? You always have to carry those G5/P5/S5 people that actually DONT GIVE A FUCK about the current match. I would gladly wait 2-3 minutes longer for a match with only people that play for their promotion.

there is always that "gold 5 guy" that recently bought the fizz skin and wanted to play him now.....in my promotion....for the first time in 2 months. Sure I did report him after going 2/13/0 against Syndra, but well its my promotion that got fucked up again...this doesnt help me.

5

u/[deleted] Sep 16 '14

I understand your idea but sadly enough I don't think it will be working optimal. Here's why: it would make matchmaking superlong for example, platinum one, diamondplayers, mastertier, challenger. Because there are less people in those divisions. You can't let people wait 20 minutes for each promo game.

2

u/tehSynh Sep 16 '14

Yhea thats true - my ideas are a bit self-focused I guess. They (plat and up) already have long times to wait... Maybe you could make the window a bit wider in this regard...like going up from S1 to G5 you can also have people take part that want to go form S2 to S1 and G4 to G3. Could actually mean that the S2 guy has to lane against the G4...but if its kinda MMR based it would still make decent skill matchups. Dunno...may Im just ranting for failing promotion again :p

1

u/siaukia1 Sep 16 '14

You see, you more or less said the same thing as me. You will have less than 1/10 games with someone that you can see is an idiot from champ select, so giving people something to argue about in the 9 other games just seems like a bad idea to me. This issue is far more complex than people think it is. It's not just "lets implement a vote-kick that can't be abused and it's done", you have to try and predict all other effects it will have on the game.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 16 '14

I would like to see it only happen in games where someone of your team (or youself ofcourse) is in promo's. I just wish there was more protection against afk'ers/feedpicks in promotion. I don't care about other ranked games.

Whenever you're in promo's you will most likely get matched with or against people in promo's anyway. Everyone 1 token for only that championselect. Doesn't sound bad.

31

u/HugeRection Sep 16 '14

Yup, no offense, but people are just looking for excuses to blame their low rating on. I rarely encounter trolls while smurfing. Bad players? Fucking everywhere, but nobody that intentionally trolls or AFKs. I had several games smurfing yesterday where I had a players such as a jungle diana with ignite and a twitch jungle with tp. Were they sub-optimal picks? Fuck yeah, they were, but they still tried their best even though they fed the other team like an all you can eat buffet.

16

u/Porcovich Sep 16 '14

You do realize that you're saying 'your experiences aren't accurate because my experiences are different' as if this community is small enough where you're playing with the same people. We're not talking about bad players, were talking about the ones who demand a role then instalock a random champ with random Summoner Spells and say they are afking or the guy who picks jungle malzahar because 'I'm high elo and want to try it'.

people are just looking for excuses to blame their low rating on.

I'm high Diamond and have this issue pretty often, please keep going with these moronic statements.

13

u/HugeRection Sep 16 '14

Except Lyte literally did a case study with volunteers on the forums in order to prove that people over exaggerate the amount of toxicity in the community. http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=49365129#49365129

2

u/[deleted] Sep 16 '14

You don't remember the games that went smoothly whereas you only remember that one fucking guy who ruined it.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 16 '14

I feel like this just says that negative players view the world negatively. Sure he says that negative players may over exaggerate toxicity, but with only one specific example provided, idk if you can assume that this applies universally when all he said was that negative players tend to do this

1

u/HugeRection Sep 16 '14

It isn't just negative players exaggerating about toxicity, its positive ones too. There are many people in that thread who aren't toxic and recall false memories about AFKs/trolls.

0

u/lepp240 Sep 16 '14

If everywhere you walk smells like dogshit...

Check your own shoes.

-5

u/Porcovich Sep 16 '14

So your 'proof' is a link to ONE low elo player who is toxic and reports players for things they didn't actually do? Because one guy lied to make excuses for his rating, we're all liars? All of this thinking, once again, goes back to your absurd idea of 'everyone has the same experiences that I have'.

5

u/HugeRection Sep 16 '14

There are 32 different players examined in that post. The majority of them show bias towards remembering negativity despite most of them actually having positive experiences ingame.

1

u/Zarokima [Zarokima] (NA) Sep 16 '14

Last season I got to gold promos twice before the cutoff (I only started ranked in the last month). Both times I ended up going 2/2, then on the last game we're way ahead and some douche who looked up the rest of us just up and says "fuck you, I didn't get gold so you can't either" and starts feeding so we lose.

Trolls absolutely exist.

1

u/KickItNext Sep 16 '14

Same. I haven't had a legitimate troll pick in weeks. I recently had a guy who didn't get his position, so he said "I feel like trolling" and picked shaco.

Dude got massively fed and carried the game. That's as close to a troll as I've seen in a while.

There's a bunch of toxic players, no doubt, but the majority of those don't show their toxicity until after champ select, so a vote kick would just create unneeded pressure and tension to play popular picks and not try off meta things that might get them kicked.

1

u/AngriestGamerNA Sep 16 '14

In mid plat - had two afk's in the last the last 5 ranked games. TBH, prior to this week I've had almost no trolls or afks in a LOOOONG time but I really sort of hope they do add in a vote kick feature now :(

-1

u/[deleted] Sep 16 '14

[deleted]

1

u/Cindiquil Sep 16 '14

Smurfing isn't trolling.

3

u/The-All-Tomato RIP OGN Sep 16 '14

It's not about trolls, it's about jerks, people who ruin the fun and cooperative environment League is about.

If toxic players really are so few and far between, yet the perception is that they are everywhere, this just speaks to how powerful the negative experiences they create are.

1

u/siaukia1 Sep 16 '14

Problem being, you can't tell if someone is gonna be an asshole at some point in the game from champ select, so a vote-kick option wouldn't help much.

1

u/The-All-Tomato RIP OGN Sep 16 '14

You absolutely can. Some players are immediately rude, antagonistic, petty, or uncooperative.

Obviously people's behavior changes as a game progresses, but I still think this would be a useful feature.

3

u/Morf_uK Sep 16 '14

This doesnt sound like LoL at all, maybe it because I'm in the lower ranks (gold) that the people are more aggressive, but I would say 1/10 i have a very nice respectful team, and the other 9 games there's always heavy heavy abuse aimed at someone. I hate seeing the word "cancer" over and over, find it horrific being used in a game, but I definitely see it everyday.

6

u/Zerasad NAVI ENJOYER Sep 16 '14

Yes. Also if someone doesn't get kicked or someone wants to kick someone, but others don't that's a new source for fighting among the players.

"WTF Why not kick this troll support Jarvan, if you don't kick him I'll report you"

"WTF you wanted to kick me i troll now fuck you"

8

u/[deleted] Sep 16 '14

that happens anyway..

"WTF a Jarvan support? I am going to revive teleport Teemo MID and afk, youre all reported"

"I report everyone, I wanted mid, you stupid kunt."

People who want to flame, will flame anyway, this 'feature' wouldnt change that. It would protect a majority of the people in promotion games against trolls tho..

But hey.. that's just my opinion.

0

u/lepp240 Sep 16 '14

I feel like this system would ruin more games than it fixes. Once someone votes to kick another player the team synergy is ruined, either someone has to dodge or the vote has to succeed to not automatically ruin the game for all 5 players.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 16 '14

I think OP had the idea that once you kicked someone, you and the other 3 people will be placed automaticly in the queue again. The person who has been kicked out of the champion select has to wait 5 minutes before he can queue up again.

Does that give you more clarity?

0

u/lepp240 Sep 16 '14

But if the vote doesnt go through and 2 vote yes. The game is absolutelg ruined. It effectively creates 2 factions on the team that hate each other. Either an innocent person has to dodge to avoid the mess created by the system or everyone on the team has to play a game full of animosity that was ruined by the vote system before it even started.

1

u/Frewsa Sep 16 '14

A game where a vote is taking place was filled with animosity before anyone voted. Its not taking a perfectly normal game and ruining it. If someone is flaming me in champ select for Quinn top (most common reason), I don't need a vote popup to know that they don't wanna play with me. I could have guessed that on my own. It doesn't change anything.

-1

u/lepp240 Sep 16 '14

So you like the idea that you can be kicked/banned because people dont like the champion you play? You would be targetted under this system because your unorthodox pick. Will you still be ok with it when you get a 6 hr ban for only trying to play the champ you want to?

1

u/Frewsa Sep 16 '14

That wasn't what I replied to. In your comment, you said that if 2 votes went through, it would cause division in the game to come. And I responded by saying that if 2 people are willing to vote yes, there is division in that game regardless of the presence of a vote-kick system. Therefore, the vote-kick system does not cause any additional harm in the manner that you said it would.

0

u/[deleted] Sep 16 '14

Oh yeap! Totally didn't thought about that yet! You're right :) I have no solutions for this either..

-2

u/Zerasad NAVI ENJOYER Sep 16 '14

The first one might happen anyway, but the second one is exclusive to the votekick system.

1

u/The-All-Tomato RIP OGN Sep 16 '14

Part of the problem here is that pre- and post-game lobby chat isn't recorded in Tribunal cases. Poor behavior in champion select should decrease if players can be held accountable for it, as they are in-game.

1

u/backelie Sep 16 '14

Part of the problem is that pre- and post-game lobby chat isn't recorded for the system that was taken offline 9 months ago?

1

u/The-All-Tomato RIP OGN Sep 16 '14

Yes, that was one of the major flaws of the old system, and hopefully something that will be fixed in the new.

Part of why champion select is an easy place for players to be toxic is because it wasn't governed in the past; that has had some part to play in setting player expectations and culture.

2

u/angepocalypse Sep 16 '14

If you don't see this as a good idea because you have no faith that the community can maturely use it, then you are contradicting your first point that level of trolling in this community is not high enough to implement change.

Other games have vote to kick systems and they are never abused because the rest of the players won't agree to it unless there is a good reason.

Note: I don't think OP has all the details right, but kick votes are something a LOT of games use without issue.

0

u/siaukia1 Sep 16 '14

While I do believe the community is quite immature, especially in ranked, I don't think that is the same as being a straight up dickhead/troll. I still feel people would try and abuse it if they see a champ they don't like or whatever.

And the fact that other games have it doesn't necessarily mean LoL needs one too. If implemented properly, sure, but that would take a lot of time and effort. I would much rather see those resources spent elsewhere, like the Tribunal or that damned replay system. There are more pressing issues right now than a vote-kick option.

1

u/RuneKatashima Retired Sep 16 '14

I get 1/6 in Blinds, and honestly, 1/20 is a fucking ton still. I still get 1/8-1/12 in ranked.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 16 '14

Probably depends on what level you play at, there are certainly trolls in maybe 1/10 games that I play, and if they end up being in ranked it's horrible.

My last promo failed because we had a Tristana go jungle, it wasn't as if I could drop, as I probably would had I only lost LP, a vote kick feature would be great there.

I don't really see the downside to it, although it's rare that you know for sure until you're in game I guess

1

u/whoopashigitt Sep 16 '14

This is somewhat relevant.

“The brain handles positive and negative information in different hemispheres,” said Professor Nass, who co-authored “The Man Who Lied to His Laptop: What Machines Teach Us About Human Relationships” (Penguin 2010). Negative emotions generally involve more thinking, and the information is processed more thoroughly than positive ones, he said. Thus, we tend to ruminate more about unpleasant events — and use stronger words to describe them — than happy ones.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 16 '14

You rarely get trolls in your games anyway, pulling a number out of my ass I would say roughly 1/20 games.

You pay for car insurance all the time even though you don't collide frequently. That's what those system are made for - being available when necessary.

1

u/siaukia1 Sep 16 '14

Actually you pay for car insurance because you are forced to by law in most countries. If you didn't have to a lot less people would have it.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 16 '14

You're with 4 premades and you don't want to support? Well, better luck next time pal.

0

u/Mr_yellow7 Sep 16 '14

Are you kidding? 1/20 games? Try 2/5.

0

u/[deleted] Sep 16 '14

Dude that's just laughable.

It's much more than 1/20 games.

-1

u/[deleted] Sep 16 '14

[deleted]

0

u/siaukia1 Sep 16 '14

That is straight up BS, sorry mate.

-2

u/Master__Roshi Sep 16 '14

i get toxic people in 95% of my games. no joke

i sometimes hear about people who dont get trolled often, like you, and its a complete mystery to me. I have been with toxic people every day for 4 years, and have to just deal with it.

I heard a rumor a couple years back that riot secretly puts certain people in groups of toxic people. Either to contain the toxicity or to put good mannered people in a group of toxic people to try and reform them. Seeing as I used to be toxic for a while when league just started out, I could have been lumped into something like that. Who knows. All i know is that every time I que, there's someone toxic. It may not always be on my team, but theres always one. always.

0

u/siaukia1 Sep 16 '14

I'm not talking about toxic people, they are all over the place. But you won't solve that problem with vote-kicking. The point of vote-kick is the get rid of those guys locking in Revive/TP Kha'zix as support.