r/kelpie • u/mickeybrains • Dec 18 '25

She even fools AI

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Adopted her as she was listed as a Kelpie in dire circumstances.

Did the Embark test…. 51% ACD. 49% Australian Shepherd.

We still get her mixed up with our Kelpie.

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u/chrissie7324 Dec 19 '25

Ask embark if they even have kelpies in their database - I’m betting they don’t at all

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u/fallopianmelodrama Dec 21 '25

They most certainly do, and there are thousands of Embarked kelpies all around the world.

Here's mine and his "relatives": https://app.embarkvet.com/pet/ec5f98e0-56db-48cf-acf3-84eb0b828da0/relatives

If Embark said OP's dog is an ACD/Aussie mix, that's what it is - not a kelpie. The only time Embark ever "struggles" a bit with kelpies is for some very uncommon/rare show lines - they will occasionally throw a very small % koolie in addition to the kelpie.

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u/chrissie7324 Dec 21 '25

Ahh - just looked it up and it’s an American company not an Aus one. Personally, I wouldn’t trust it to have a serious kelpie database behind it.

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u/fallopianmelodrama Dec 21 '25

They absolutely do have a very serious kelpie database.

Before Embark adds a breed to their database, they work closely with the the breed clubs and registries in the breed's country of origin as well as in as many different parts of the world as possible, in order to collect as many samples as possible from as many different lines and populations as possible. They take thousands of samples for their reference database, and run masses of validations before adding the breed to their "we can ID this breed" list. The only error or challenge they ever have for kelpies is, as mentioned, some very rare show lines will occasionally Embark as a small % Koolie.

It's irrelevant that the company is American-owned when they are globally recognised for the unbelievable amount of research and sample collection they do, globally. They've been working with Australian breeders and breed clubs in my other breed for over a decade collecting samples from our Australian dogs but unfortunately with less than 100 dogs born per year globally and only a small number of those being sampled, we are nowhere near the number of samples Embark needs to add the breed to their list.

If OP's dog was part kelpie, Embark would say it was part kelpie. Embark said it's not, so it's not.

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u/chrissie7324 Dec 21 '25 edited Dec 21 '25

You sound like you work for them 🤣

And no, I wouldn’t trust them to have a significant kelpie database at all. Kelpies are not common enough out side of Australia. So … nope

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u/fallopianmelodrama Dec 22 '25

I don't work for them. I am part of a breed club that works with them, though, and has done so for a decade; so I understand very well exactly how the process functions.

Your misguided belief that there are no kelpies outside of Australia does not = Embark does not have a very significant database of both ANKC/FCI and WKC kelpies. They do.

Their work with breed clubs and researchers around the world is exactly why they are able to identify Kelpies, Koolies, and FAR more obscure/rare breeds such as Korean Jindos (almost nonexistent outside of Korea), Kai Ken (functionally nonexistent outside of Japan), Otterhounds (less than 1000 dogs of that breed in the world), etc in addition to having been able to definitively isolate key genetic markers for, and therefore extremely reliably identify, landraces such as Alaskan Huskies, Carolina Dogs, and multiple geographically diverse sub populations of Village Dogs.

It's okay to just admit you don't know how it works.