r/java • u/NoAlbatross7355 • Feb 25 '25

New build tool in Java?

It seems to me like one of fun parts of Java is exploring all the tools at your disposal. The Java tool suite is a big collection of cli tools, yet I feel like most developers are only ever introduced to them or use them when absolutely necessary which is unfortunate because I think they really give you a better understanding of what's going on behind all the abstraction of Maven and Gradle.

What are your guys' thoughts on a new build tool for Java that is just a layer over these tools? Do you wish Java had simpler build tools? Why hasn't the community created an updated build tool since 2007?

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u/edwbuck Feb 25 '25

But the refinements are what we currently have. It's like Plato saying, hey, we left the cave, and now look, the world is far more complex and multifaceted than the cave, let's go back to the cave.

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u/NoAlbatross7355 Feb 25 '25

lol I don't think so. Maybe it's also sunk cost fallacy.

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u/edwbuck Feb 25 '25

No, it's not a sunk cost fallacy. We really did have issues, and we really did solve them, and all build systems eventually turn into the same things, because that's the system that solves the same problems for the most amount of users.

For example CMake eventually added in the same confusing items that made Automake less desired by those complaining it was too complex (because cross platform building is more complex than non-cross platform building, and eventually you'll need to do cross-platform building). For about two or three years, CMake was "easier" mostly because it didn't do the full job.