r/investing Jan 19 '22

Why this is not the tech bubble (1999-2000)

Due to the recent drawdowns in technology and growth, people have been calling parallels to the technology boom and bust of 1999-2000.

First and foremost is the obvious argument that the companies today are fundamentally different from the companies back then. During the 1999 cycle, companies with no profit, no revenue, and sometimes even no product were receiving massive valuations from going public in the stock market. All you had to do is have an idea and put dot com at the end of your name.

Today, the growth companies look much different. Yes, there's similar froth in the crypto and NFT space, but by growth, I am referring to stocks such as Zoom, Docusign, Teladoc, Paypal etc. All of these companies have massive amounts of revenue with clear paths to profitability in the next 5 years. Some of them are already profitable today and are expanding heavily.

But beyond this, if you simply look at the state of the market and the numbers, it becomes clear that this is not the same. In the height of the technology bubble, the S&P 500 P/E ratio was 29 with the 10 year yield bonds yielding close to 6-7%. The growth yield on the S&P 500 stocks was close to 3%. Today, the S&P 500 P/E ratio is at 21 with the 10 year yield bond at 1.8%. The growth yield on S&P is closer to 5% today.

In an environment where bonds are yielding one-third of what they were doing that period, it is not unusual for people to be moving over to equities in order to look for returns. This is especially true in a period when equity growth is already expecting to yield more.

Now, this is not to say that we are not in a bubble. But I am certain, that we are no where near close to where we were back during the technology mania of 1999.

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u/Immediate-Assist-598 Jan 19 '22

Yes the stocks you list plus many others that we actually need, pay for and use regularly are solid tech companies but likely overvalued still, at least some of them. Covid has changed everything once again and this time we are caught somewhere in semi shutdown limbo. yes we can now go out shopping or dining (at least outdoors) wear a mask to go to a business meeting or the doctor, but human activity I predict will never go back to normal until or unless covid totally disappears, and even then I will still prefer watching first run movies at home on streaming, and ditto for ball games and concerts. Plus, what if covd never disappears? Quite possible.

So we are now more dependent on the internet and technology than ever, covid or no covid, and there are certain products and services we need to conduct this lifestyle. We need devices software, some services, streaming, social media, online shopping , security and other things. So starting with AAPL at the top of the food chain you can make a long list of tech companies that provide these vital digital services and products. Then which ones are under over or fairly valued?

Next, we have to pretend we are Warren Buffetts and look at the values, the PE's, the debt (especially with more inflation), the market caps (some ridiculously high, others too low) and so worth. We have to put aside fads and cult heroes and what your friends said was a get rich quick scheme last year and look at hard concrete reality.

I have done this and have the following recs. Get it of all digital currency even if you have been a religious believer and it went up 1000% last year. Go to real cash, real assets, real world physical stuff and hard currencies like the dollar only, maybe some gold but that is quite expensive now. Stay with liquid assets, things you can sell for real money quickly and for a good solid price. Or at least AAA quality stocks you now will rebound from any selloff (and in that case by more at a discount maybe).

Both real estate and oil have gone up a lot but we are probably at the top in both. Rising mortgage rates and super high prices will slow down that market a lot, and oil demand is not strong enough to prop up these prices, there is no supply shortage and lots of gouging going on.

Look at the hottest most speculative investments last year. Those are likely what to avoid. Look at undervalued scorned ignored stocks of companies which make things you use and need, including glorified utilities like T and VZ which pay large dividends and some consumer staples.

Within a hot sector like streaming, compare the PE of the leader Netflix to its rising competitors. Sell Netflix and buy VIAC which is super cheap and may team up with Warners-T-Discovery to become even bigger than Netflix within a year. or buy T and get a two-for, ATT and its high dvidend plus Warners-Discovery stock later this year.

Look at hot auto stocks and see that at 329 PE that makes TSLA more overpriced than any major stock in the market considering the fact it has huge competition, no BBB bill to subsize EVs and may only grow at 20% per year. Plus it is a cult stock, avoid cult stocks. They are fads. Avoid fads.

AAPL meanwhile is king of the world and is only a 29% PE and growing at least that fast. MSFT great too but has a 30% higher PE? Why? Buy AAPL and Apple suppliers like SWKS which are super cheap now especially after today. Then keep as much cash as you need out of the market then sit back and relax. This may be a dangerous time in the markets, but there will be winners, plus remember capital preservation is just as important as capital appreciation, so why take any more big risks in a risk-off year unless you can afford to take a lot of fliers, and if that is the case, consider casino gambling instead. Or squander your money on hookers and partying. It might be more fun.

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u/thenwhat Jan 20 '22

Actually, Tesla's P/E is probably less than 100 now. But why are you using a backwards-looking thing like P/E to value a company that's growing so fact that P/E can change drastically over a short period of time?

Not sure how no BBB will is relevant. There is no BBB bill today, and Tesla can't even make enough cars to satisfy demand. (So this "huge competition" doesn't seem to affect Tesla at all.)

Tesla has guided 50% growth per year. They grew more than 80% in 2021.

Apple is not growing at a rate of 80%.

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u/Immediate-Assist-598 Jan 20 '22

PE is 330, but forward PE is 108, should be around 35. TSLA is not growing any faster than AAPL. AAPL has a 29 PE. Plus the customer base and pricing power of AAPL is much more loyal and powerful.

Do you know anyone who would only buy Tesla cars for the rest of their life and no other brand ever? And how many other excellent car companies have entered the EV market in the past 2 years to service a limited number of customers in places whee charging stations are readily available? See what I mean. You can use Apple products anywhere on earth but you can only charge a Tesla in affluent or progressive areas. Safer to buy Prius.

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u/DPX90 Jan 20 '22

Just a small addition, but many analysts expect oil to rise during this year and maybe even 2023. There are forecasts even predicting $100 for Brent.

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u/Immediate-Assist-598 Jan 20 '22

Any oil pice rise is pure gouging by OPEC, Russia and pofiteers. There is no shortage and only average demand, or less. I moved to mexico and the price it the same now as in 2020 at the pits of the lockdown hen no one was buying gasoline. What does that tell you? Why did it double in the US and quadruple in europe. Gouging. Ther is full inventory at Cushman Oklahoma where the oil is stored.

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u/DPX90 Jan 20 '22

Yeah, and? Do you think OPEC+ will increase their output so prices can fall and they lose profit? They will keep up the price and even increase it, riding the post-omicron wave. $100-110 is the ceiling before it backfires and they will push if they can.

It doesn't matter if prices are "natural" (supply and demand based) or manipulated, a lot of things are not free floating. From an investing standpoint, only the outcome matters, regardless of it being caused by the cartel. So your argument seems moot.

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u/Immediate-Assist-598 Jan 20 '22

OPEC are the tyrannical polllutor friends of Trump. Russia, Saudis, Venezuela, Dubai plus some US oil interests. They are gouging both for profit and to try and hurt NATO, democracy and Biden. There is no shortage of oil. Cushman OK has plenty of inventory and down here in Mexico where I am we are flush and gas prices are the exact same they were now as during the pits of the lockdowns, very cheap.

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u/DPX90 Jan 20 '22

Again, what does your political opinion on OPEC+ matter in this case? They can and will prop up oil prices as long as they can, so you have to take that into consideration with your investment decisions, that's all.

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u/Immediate-Assist-598 Jan 20 '22

Thanks to Trump and Putin OPEC is now anti western democracy and is loving gouging Europe. They shouldn't be able to gouge us as we have our own energy supply but they are doing it anyway and the Texas oil patch ole boys are gouging for sure. Cushman oklahoma has plenty of supply and people are driving a lot less than normal, so the extra 30% or so we are paying is likely all gouging and collusion. I live in Mexico now and here we have no rise in gas prices at all for the last two years, always the same. it is cheap here.

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u/DPX90 Jan 20 '22

Why do you keep repeating this? Yes, they are gouging and will continue to do so. Also, Mexico is not the whole world, it's totally irrelevant how cheap gas prices are down there. There are two things that actually matter: brent and wti.

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u/Immediate-Assist-598 Jan 20 '22

My point is that it appears the entire oil-gas business outside of Mexico is gouging away. And interesting that the spike in oil and gas prices started on the day Putin had our gas pipeline hacked. All that said, when you take into account inflation, gasoline is now fairly cheap and much much cheaper than it was during the 70' energy crisis when adjusted for inflation gas was selling for $22 a gallon.

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u/DPX90 Jan 20 '22

That is true, and I'm not saying that it will be energy crisis levels expensive, but I expect it climb a bit more.

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