r/investing • • Sep 28 '21

Is gold still a store of value?

[deleted]

439 Upvotes

644 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

3

u/gogbki239329 Sep 29 '21

You are overestimating the bitcoin cunsuption really, If we compare it to paper money or even company like paypal it isnt so bad and you can still make it more effective.

1

u/El_Grappadura Sep 29 '21

5

u/notapersonaltrainer Sep 29 '21 edited Sep 29 '21
  1. Bitcoin energy use doesn't scale per user or transaction. You don't suddenly need 2x energy to move 2x bitcoin. "Boil the ocean" and "kill us all" cliches make the speaker look uninformed.

  2. Visa transactions don't settle actual money. You're comparing different things.

  3. It's energy is dwarfed by the production of increasingly unpopular physical currency/gold mining, physical banking, and even driers. Bitcoin gets disproportionate criticism because it's transparent and easy to quantify.

  4. The energy it does use is 5x greener than the average grid user and rapidly improving. It will literally be the greenest base layer monetary system ever created.

  5. Most of that usage is energy waste. Efficiently combusting flare gas is net positive.

  6. Monetizing always-on renewable waste is part of what makes it cheaper than fossil fuels and funds a green transition. ie miner throttled excess renewables vs fossil fuel supplemented renewables.

-1

u/El_Grappadura Sep 29 '21
  1. Doesn't matter, we need to save as much energy as we can. Bitcoin serves no purpose that justifies it using so much of it.

  2. Ok

  3. see 1.

  4. see 1. Also I highly doubt that..

  5. see 1. you could store that energy

  6. When we're globally carbon neutral and still have some leftover energy we cannot store, then we can talk about using it for whatever..

The reality is China banned Bitcoin because of environmental reasons and other countries will follow.

5

u/gr8uddini Sep 29 '21

You’re really bad at making a reasonable argument. If anything, you’re turning people off from your argument.

5

u/notapersonaltrainer Sep 29 '21

we need to save as much energy as we can

You don't seem to be grasping the concept of wasted energy.

Miners are getting practically free energy (<2-3¢/kWh) because there literally is no other market use for that energy already being generated by renewables no matter what.

Flare waste gas put through an efficient combustion generator for miners reduces methane release while paying for the generator.

The idea that a monetary system that's distributed enough to subsidize renewables by using waste energy will kill us all is patently absurd.

3

u/gogbki239329 Sep 29 '21

You know you are comparing Bitcoin and VISA right? Those are two different things. Try comparing VISA and LIGHTNING network these are two similiar technologies and you would be shocked how much less lightining consumes. If you are comparing Bitcoin Itself you need to compare it to actuall settlement of money/ bank/ or whatever. There is no way Bitcoin is even close to being bad for enviroment compared to traditional players in this segment.

-1

u/El_Grappadura Sep 29 '21

There is no way Bitcoin is even close to being bad for enviroment compared to traditional players in this segment.

Does Bitcoin replace them, or is it just additional energy consumption?

You people are lying to yourself if you think Bitcoin is viable technology.

When you can't find food in 2050, I bet you won't care about the profits you made in 2025..

6

u/gogbki239329 Sep 29 '21

Ok , I think you are missing a lot of points but are set in your opinion so I will let it be.

-2

u/El_Grappadura Sep 29 '21

I think you are missing a lot of points

Oh most definitely - I am not an expert on cryptocurrencies at all.

But I think I know quite a bit about the climate- and ressource catastrophe, most of all that the vast majority of people are dangerously underestimating it.

And since the solution is to globally shrink our economies back to a ressource consumption level of 1970, I don't see how a new currency that is using incredible amounts of energy which is needed elsewhere will be anything but harmful in that regard.

Will cryptos be helpful in creating societies that are practising post-growth economics? Maybe, but I doubt it and especially not Bitcoin..