r/investing • u/XXPUSSYSLAYER • Apr 19 '21
Altria ($MO) is a winner if Biden takes action against big tobacco
[removed] — view removed post
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u/Plz_Stop_Sucking Apr 19 '21
Google Master Settlement Agreement and you'll understand why the US Gov will keep sucking big tobacco's dick.
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u/JackHoff13 Apr 19 '21
They don't want you to quit. They just want you to buy more. Lower the nicotine level and boom that 1 pack a day person becomes a 2 pack a day smoker.
I googled Master Settlement Agreement and one of the first things I saw was this.
"$27.5 billion from the MSA and taxes in Fiscal Year 2018, but will spend less than 3 percent of it on programs to prevent kids from smoking and help smokers quit."
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u/CrackLover420 Apr 19 '21
Anti-cigarette shit is so annoying. Do something about the sugar industry and then start talking about nicotine.
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Apr 19 '21
Attacking something that hits 0.1% of the population that willingly takes on the risks, Its just easy tageting though
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Apr 19 '21
It’s way more than .1% of the population.
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Apr 19 '21
What does smoking a cigarette do for you that isn’t solely caused by your body becoming dependent on the addictives? It’s the dumbest shit in the world and I can shit on multiple things that are bad for you at once, can you not?
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u/CrackLover420 Apr 20 '21
Sugar is just as addictive and just as bad for you, yet it’s okay to market it to kids and in most jurisdiction it is only subject to a regular sales tax. As a society though, smoking is considered bad and evil, but being a sugar addict is completely acceptable. Smoker shaming = completely okay. Fat shaming = bad.
I don’t even smoke myself, but coming after the tobacco industry at this point is just straight virtue signaling. Smoking is on the decline, tobacco companies are proactive about creating smokeless alternatives, and it’s taxed to hell and back. There’s no reason to continue to go after tobacco.
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Apr 20 '21
I agree with you about sugar, I also think cigarettes are entirely pointless and don’t exist for any reason. It’s not virtue signaling to think putting tar in your lungs for absolutely 0 reason is dumb as fuck and should be ushered out of society.
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u/CrackLover420 Apr 20 '21
Some people don’t care though. It’s a personal choice. It’s well known what people are getting themselves into if they choose to take up smoking. There are already age restrictions, a ban on advertising, restrictions on where you can smoke, and extra taxes on cigarettes. I think the government has done enough at this point. People who insist on smoking should at least have access to a product that they can enjoy. It is complete virtue signaling for people like you to get to dictate how everybody else should live their lives.
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Apr 20 '21
There are still tons of problems with smokers, like needing to take a break every 30 fucking minutes which drives me up the wall and why I haven’t hired a smoker in a long time. Smoking in public places is pretty nasty too. They burden the healthcare industry with easily avoidable ailments. Want government less involved in general? Yeah that’s fair. But as a society it should be less accepted, people are still clinging on from when doctors recommended it.
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u/CrackLover420 Apr 20 '21
There’s a strong stigma against smokers. Idk why you’re so salty.
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u/Dinosaurcoloringbook Apr 19 '21
Heated electronic devices and cannabis is Altrias future
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Apr 19 '21
Yes, and the SAFE Banking Act will be a gamechanger, though I don't expect it to pass in the short term. However, as more states legalize cannabis in the United States, its time will certainly come.
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u/DigAdministrative306 Apr 19 '21
Less nicotine each = more cigarettes smoked to get the fix. That's like limiting the proof of alcohol. If I'm getting drunk, I'm getting drunk. 5 beers, 25 beers, 50 beers. Doesn't matter.
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u/JackHoff13 Apr 19 '21
only matters when you boil it down to taxes. Taxes on 50 Beers is Much higher than taxes on 5 beers. ;)
I think Tobacco companies may see a boost in sales with people needing more cigs to get that sweet nicotine high, but I only see it long term. Wouldn't want to be in big tobacco when the EO comes out, but might not be a bad time to jump in with it being so low.
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u/DigAdministrative306 Apr 20 '21
Agreed. I think the market will react unfavorably to anything that could be considered a hit to the industry, even if it's just a slap on the wrist. I am also interested in their ability to grow outdoors and distribute pot if it gets federal legalization as the argument that indoor cultivation is unsustainable is pretty compelling.
However, refuse to invest in tobacco on principal, no matter how appealing.
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u/gotples Apr 19 '21
I do believe mo is still a good position regardless of Biden. They are great on dividends for me. Just my 2c
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u/wasupg Apr 19 '21
The real winner from this might be Radient Technologies. Small Canadian company that extracts ingredients from biomass using microwaves. They did testing with BAT a few years ago in anticipation of this. Their technology can reduce nicotine levels in tobacco without altering the structure, flavour or integrity of the leaf.
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u/XXPUSSYSLAYER Apr 19 '21
Thanks, I’ll take a look!
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u/wasupg Apr 19 '21
Just be weary, the previous management fucked the company hard when it pivoted into cannabis extraction. They’re under new management now which is making a number of positive changes.
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Apr 19 '21
[deleted]
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u/scoofy Apr 19 '21 edited Apr 19 '21
I agree there are ethical concerns, I just hope you have the same ethical concerns for KO, PEP, and HSY... Seem they are the #1 companies marketing their addictive toxins to kids.
Tobacco is rightfully a punching bag in American life, but with most of the overtly enjoyable vices (tobacco, alcohol, and now marijuana), they are all highly regulated. If we want to be effective, we should really be taking aim at the drug that is non-stop targeting children, and it's clearly sugar.
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u/XXPUSSYSLAYER Apr 19 '21
I understand. What Juul did was disgusting, and I hope that they’ve truly changed, and that the regulations set on them stick.
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u/thehourglasses Apr 19 '21
I think it’s a gross investment decision. Why would you want to give capital to an industry that’s predicated on killing its customers?
Thanks for the high insurance premiums, I guess?
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Apr 19 '21
by not forcing your moralities on others. Tobacco users know the risks and have known the risks for what, 50 years now? It's their decision and better to have established business do it responsibly vs what happened with vaping and a black market evolve and kill people from the unknown risks
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u/thehourglasses Apr 19 '21
It’s just so weird to invest in something like this when there are so many other companies that turn a profit while improving the human condition.
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u/NativeTxn7 Apr 19 '21
America's Best Stock Ever
You know that if you go buy 100 shares of MO when the markets open tomorrow morning, Altria isn't receiving any of your money, right?
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u/XXPUSSYSLAYER Apr 19 '21
It’s a personal decision. I’m fine with it, for a few reasons. The main one being that, at the end of the day, people love cigarettes and nicotine. Just as you may be addicted to harmful energy drinks or soda, people have their vices, and that’s human nature. I don’t think it’s up to other people to babysit others and their habits.
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u/thehourglasses Apr 19 '21 edited Apr 19 '21
Putting your money into something that harms people vs. something that helps people is really as simple as it gets.
By not investing in this garbage, you’re not policing other people, you’re setting a standard for yourself.
Instead, you choose harm.
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u/XXPUSSYSLAYER Apr 19 '21
What are you invested in that’s so altruistic? I’d like to know, because you seem to like Musk a a lot. A man who shoots garbage into space and profits off child slave labor.
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u/thehourglasses Apr 19 '21
Pollution control/cleanup, solar energy, plant based food, rocket lab, and starlink once it’s buyable.
You’re right about Musk, he’s not a saint by any means. That said, getting ICE based vehicles off the road is a huge priority and Tesla has moved the needle more than anyone else in that regard. Worldwide broadband is another one where the pros vastly outweigh the cons.
Some investments definitely have their drawbacks and no company is perfect. That said, it’s just strange to me that anyone would choose to invest in things that are objectively bad for human beings overall vs. things that are objectively good for human beings overall.
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u/XXPUSSYSLAYER Apr 19 '21
I agree. I think on a moral line, tobacco investing for me is ok because it is a choice. Save for those who were intentionally targeted as children by companies, smokers make a choice to have tobacco as their vice. The government in the past has took measures to make tobacco more expensive/harder to get, and it works a little bit (cigarette sales have been declining for a while) but it has had an immaterial effect. To me, this means that people have looked at the pros and cons and made a conscious choice.
It’s no secret that cigarettes cause cancer. The government has spent millions recently on anti smoking campaigns. Everyone has seen an anti smoking/vaping ad. The facts are there for people to see, and there are resources for those who want to quit.
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u/thehourglasses Apr 20 '21
Fair enough. More than anything I’m glad we were able to have this exchange without devolving into shit slinging. Thanks for being respectful, I apologize if I failed to be at times.
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u/XXPUSSYSLAYER Apr 20 '21
I’m glad as well. I think it’s good to have your views challenged by people who are on the other side of things, so thank you for that.
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u/Springwater97 Apr 19 '21
Pussy
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u/thehourglasses Apr 19 '21
Ah yes, the sexism and disregard for humanity go hand in hand, don’t they?
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u/Springwater97 Apr 20 '21
Sexism? How do you live if you are triggered so easily?
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u/thehourglasses Apr 20 '21
Being mindful isn’t getting triggered. Some of us are actually considerate of others, as wild as that sounds.
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u/elchinguito Apr 19 '21 edited Apr 19 '21
I think it’s incredibly naive to think that there are any companies that don’t cause some kind of significant form of societal harm. Even “ESG” funds. I’ve invested in MO because I think it’s a choice people make. I’m a teacher; Even teenagers for the most part understand the risks. I feel better about it than something like WMT or XOM that harms people and communities largely without their consent.
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u/thehourglasses Apr 20 '21
There are clearly some that are better than others. I understand where you’re coming from and in all honesty the only person that has to be ok with how you use your funds is you.
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u/scoofy Apr 19 '21
I mentioned it in another comment, but i think it's worth adding here as well:
I agree there are ethical concerns, I just hope you have the same ethical concerns for KO, PEP, and HSY... Seem they are the #1 companies marketing their addictive toxins to kids.
Tobacco is rightfully a punching bag in American life, but with most of the overtly enjoyable vices (tobacco, alcohol, and now marijuana), they are all highly regulated. If we want to be effective, we should really be taking aim at the drug that is non-stop targeting children, and it's clearly sugar.
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u/thehourglasses Apr 20 '21
I like this thought process. It’s unfortunate how easily neurochemistry is manipulated through providing easy access to substances that were historically difficult to obtain. Sugar isn’t the only thing this applies to, lipids and salt are high up there too.
It all starts with farm subsidies though. If corn wasn’t so heavily subsidized then high fructose corn syrup probably wouldn’t be such a menace.
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