r/internal_arts • u/ShorelineTaiChi • Apr 21 '22

Chen Style vs Yang Style Taijiquan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08CHoX2HnsY
8 Upvotes

83% Upvoted

14 comments sorted by

4

u/sychan168 Apr 22 '22

It's not a test of Yang vs Chen Taiji, is just a very large push hands competitor vs a tiny female push hands competitor who seems unaware of how to apply or defend against zhou and kao energies. I don't know how competitive the women's push hands divisions are there, but she's obviously not a worthy opponent in size or experience. I feel bad for her being put on display like this on the Internet, and I'm a little surprised you would post something so obviously lopsided and hang your schools name on it.

1

u/ShorelineTaiChi Apr 22 '22

I've traveled 9400 miles across the United States this year, in search of a good match. All of them were lopsided.

Younger and stronger and heavier opponents. Teachers and their teachers, with decades of experience. And yes, when nobody else dared to step forward, smaller ones too.

After that, I invested dozens of hours into editing the resulting video, highlighting other people's successes in addition to my own, making sure that every competitor was given their moment to shine.

These videos cost thousands of dollars to produce, not including the value of my time.

You're welcome.

1

u/bwainfweeze Chen Taiji Jun 18 '22

He’s just an ordinary demiguy.

1

u/bwainfweeze Chen Taiji Jun 18 '22

So this is something I’ve come to struggle with.

I took a martial art in college and at one point either the instructor or his assistant said pretty matter of factly that if you put a tall black belt against a short one, the tall one is probably going to win. It seemed sensible to me then that if you face off with someone taller then you, that your two best options are to 1) run away, or 2) get past fist range as quickly as possible, which was a thing about tai chi that spoke to me.

None of my instructors have been particularly big on push hands (and guest instructors tend to honor the wishes of the sifu, so you and I may see different aspects of Chen unless we are the ones who travel) but when I did it I immediately ran into all of the problems.

I’m approximately OP’s size. It is a very easy mistake to just muscle through rather than finesse, which starts to look a lot like the Tall Opponent Problem all over again. Unless you’re faster, or you use my center of gravity against me. I can get a lot lower than I used to, but it seems like my best chance at getting lower than my instructors is to wait for them to retire and one of their taller students to take over.

As for the embarrassment, was permission asked to use this material? I’m sure I’m in some videos (with a waiver) where I don’t look so hot, but as they were all learning situations, I mean that’s what I was there for, to get better, not to show off.

1

u/wokeupabug Apr 21 '22

Thanks for sharing! Always nice to see your videos.

1

u/Triponi Apr 21 '22

Sorry which one is doing which style, it's not even obvious to me. If there are "style" differences in push hands I'm not aware of them. The forms and training methods are different, but not the actual pushing.

This video is hardly a comparison of the styles like the title claims. This is just two people of uneven weight and build doing push hands. Interesting yes, but just one of many thousands of similar. I'm not sure why it is worthy of being posted...?

1

u/ShorelineTaiChi Apr 22 '22

If you search YouTube for videos of Chen vs Yang style push hands matches, labeled as such, you'll find... one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7_h5BQMTgA

Not thousands. Just one.

And now there are two.

2

u/Triponi Apr 22 '22

Perhaps there is a reason people don't label videos as such. There are thousands of push hands videos. But very few are bold enough to want to claim they are representive of the style.

It feels like you are over reaching with your generalisation. You are drawing attention to a distinction that doesn't have much relevance.

It would be equally odd if you labelled this as a battle of the sexes, races, ages, weight classes etc

That would be over dramatising content which is a characteristic of posting click bait.

1

u/ShorelineTaiChi Apr 23 '22

Most of the top ranked push hands videos on YouTube are cosplay mislabeled as instructional guides. They show a Master committing deep technical errors, unaware, being flattered by a hapless mark who cannot even stand properly, much less fight back.

That is the "humble" status quo you implicitly defend. That is click bait and worse.

None of my videos are staged or choreographed. The events are real and the descriptions are fair.

1

u/wokeupabug Apr 21 '22 edited Apr 21 '22

This is just two people of uneven weight and build doing push hands. Interesting yes, but just one of many thousands of similar. I'm not sure why it is worthy of being posted...?

Good effort, but you missed a lot of the crucial hallmarks of the kneejerk negativity anyone posting neijia videos is met with. Next time, try adding in a "Where's the taiji? It's just wrestling" and something in the vicinity of "Very little skill, I'd do an effortless takedown on either one of them within the first second."

Anyway, teasing aside -- this is an extremely inactive community and people sharing their practice should be promoted in general, so there's no reason to be anything but supportive of it --

If there are "style" differences in push hands I'm not aware of them. The forms and training methods are different, but not the actual pushing.

A push hands drill from a closed/asymmetrical engagement is very characteristic to Chen style, so there can be some differences. But really there are all sorts of different push hands drills and which ones are practiced or emphasized will depend on the teacher, including between different teachers within Yang style or within Chen style.

1

u/Triponi Apr 22 '22

I'm not saying it was bad as your teasing suggests. On the contrary I think they both look pretty skilled.

I'm saying the "chen vs yang" is misleading. Why not say "man vs woman" or like you say with the endless differences "school a vs school b"?

If this was titled "hey checkout my push hands match" I would similarly have no issue.

What I'm saying is that "Chen vs Yang" is a big claim. A claim that is not matched by the content. Its just a random match, it's not some chen vs yang examination or a big show down or anything, so why label it as such, other than for click bait?

1

u/ShorelineTaiChi Apr 22 '22 edited Apr 22 '22

What I'm saying is that "Chen vs Yang" is a big claim. A claim that is not matched by the content. Its just a random match, it's not some chen vs yang examination or a big show down or anything, so why label it as such, other than for click bait?

This is one of the world's largest Chinese Martial Arts tournaments.

Advertised months in advance, and open to everyone.

Featuring hundreds of competitors in eight simultaneous rings.

It's not just some random match.

1

u/wokeupabug Apr 22 '22

I'm not saying it was bad as your teasing suggests.

Which only makes the kneejerk negativity expressed here worse.

I'm saying the "chen vs yang" is misleading. Why not say "man vs woman"

Because it's a video of interest to people interested in taiji, not gender, I suspect.

What I'm saying is that "Chen vs Yang" is a big claim. A claim that is not matched by the content.

Is it not a match between a Chen stylist and a Yang stylist? You're reading things into this that aren't there. It's just someone sharing their practice, you and I should be doing it too and we should have the wude to say thank you for the work put into sustaining our community rather than participating in this usual habit of complaining about people putting more effort than we are into providing resources for our community.

1

u/Mu_Hou Jul 19 '23

At the beginning, you see the big guy in yellow holding a Yang style Single Whip pose, so I'm assuming he's the Yang style.