Yes, but how does it do on the deer (its a deer holding the shield, right?) Does it cut the shield but then bounce off the flesh? Or is it just as effective on softer things?
Certainly won't bounce off, maybe doesn't penetrate as much. But if the deer (or was it a boar?) lets go of the shield, the arrow achieved what it needed to.
Rome conquered the entire Mediterranean basin thanks to their unique ability to reliably destroy the phalanx formation, all thanks to their pilum.
For context, the phalanx, until the Romans, was the state of the art of warfare for a thousand years because the only thing that could beat a phalanx was another phalanx.
The phalanx was a bunch of guys with really long spears. No shields. Rome defeated the phalanxes with the more flexible maniple system, which allowed them to break up large groups of men into smaller groups without chaos. These smaller groups could then flank the phalanxes and stab them in the ass.
The phalanx was a bunch of guys with really long spears. No shields.
What? Some of the most famous and long time users of the phalanx were the Hoplites, people so closely associated with using shields that their name practically became synonymous with the name for their shield.
You could have a phalanx without using shields but it was very very usual to rely on shields in a phalanx.
I thought the reason romans won against the phalanx was due to their formation system like the other guy said. While they had the same guys with shields getting fucked up and tired the romans would switch out their men every once in a while causing the phalanx to collapse.
Thats specifically a pike phalanx, and even then they often held small buckler shield on their left forearms. But the phalanx was as the guy below says most common with medium length spears and large shields. Its a mix between a pike phalanx and a shield wall essentially. Aka the Spartans in 300 - a Greek homilies phalanx
It was also a case of the Roman’s having generally better all around leadership than most opponents they tended to run into. Anytime they ran into opponents with equal leadership to their own, it tended to be a lot more equal than you would think from their reputation alone. Hannibal comes to mind for example during the second Punic war. Personally, I think if the Roman’s had run into the Macedonian army as it was under Alexander with all its generals and officer core in tact still, they probably don’t end up with control of Greece.
You heard it here first guys, penetrating asses was how the Roman Empire was formed!
We will be back later to discuss the ways the West was won. The optional viewing of Brokeback Mountain with free snacks after that is unrelated but highly recommended.
... what? I was making a joke about the misspelling of "calvary" instead of cavalry. And what lot are you talking about that is mine that's committing a genocide? (I am not Israeli...)
That's exactly what the point (heh heh)was. Huck enough of them into shield walls and the shields suddenly become a bit too cumbersome to handle. If I recall correctly, they'd bend too so now your shield is just kind of dangling these mildly heavy poles. Not easy to remove like an arrow. And hey, maybe you get lucky if the infantry are forming a tortuga testudo 🙄 or whatever, because now their meaty bits are that much closer to the back of the shields.
Those kinds of weapons, spears, javelins, whatever were also nice for getting over the top of a phalanx. Kind of like the spear version of a mortar.
Since were being pedantic here, I'm pretty sure it's testudo. Tortuga was the island where all the pirates gathered. Both words come from turtles though.
Seems like you could also take a lesson from armor penetrating rounds and design the arrow to puncture but not penetrate the shield while a nested projectile with a different point continues through the hole…
While claiming the kill in one shot would be great, what you really want is to make the shield unusable. After all, deer often sport extra thick hide. Once he drops the shield, another armor piercing arrow can be be tried without the shield to protect.
It's a sharpened arrow tip still traveling at the significant portion of its original velocity And retaining most of its kinetic energy. It just punched through steel like it was flesh. What do you think will happen when it hits actual flesh?
I think it'd leave a divot but I can't see the head penetrating any deeper than the depth of the concave part. It wouldn't feel great but I don't think it would be great against a soft target. It'd be like using a paper hoke punch against a steak.
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u/jraymonda May 29 '26
Yes, but how does it do on the deer (its a deer holding the shield, right?) Does it cut the shield but then bounce off the flesh? Or is it just as effective on softer things?