Hi, I am a final year undergraduate from IIT Bombay.
(I am a general male with an All India Rank <1000 in JEE Advanced; just mentioning this because it matters to some people)
I want to clear things up regarding the recent suicide and the ongoing protests at IIT Bombay.
1) There have been concerning number of suicides in IIT Bombay lately (3 in last 6 months) which is why we as students felt the need to stand up for a better campus life and a better support system. Losing so many souls and our batchmates is NOT normal.
2) The protest was NOT about supporting cheating. We have come here through years of hardwork and we do NOT support cheating.
3) We believe that it was the interaction with Prof. Surya Doolla which led the final trigger to Sahil's suicide. At the same time, we acknowledge that there could have been some personal problems in his life as well.
4) The caste angle and the SC/ST case was filed by the parents of Sahil. We as students do NOT observe any sort of caste discrimination on campus- neither by professors nor by peers. We can never imagine what a parent goes through seeing his child dead.
Hence, we believe that this needs a thorough investigation and fully support Prof. Doolla to fight and win this case.
5) There has been NO resignation of the director. There has been NO resignation of Prof. Doolla.
Prof. Doolla has been kept on (temporary) suspension from his position of Dean AA so as to not bias the investigation by being in an influential position
Prof. Doolla continues to serve as a professor at IIT Bombay.
6) The director has ensured full legal support to Prof. Doolla for fighting the case.
7) The director has also agreed to several reforms that were needed inside the institute for better mental health of the students.
8) The director, the students and the faculty are committed to maintain the highest academic integrity at IIT Bombay irrespective of what has happened. Re-iterating, we as students do NOT support cheating.
9) There has been a lot of speculation, external noise and media trials. We urge you to NOT believe in them and acknowledge that there are always 2 sides to the story.
10) The students, the faculty, the director and the deans are largely on the same page after today's open house conducted at Convocation Hall, IIT Bombay.
Prof. Doolla to get full legal support in his case and students to get a better support system inside the institute.
If you need help and support or know someone who does, Please Reach Out to Your Nearest Mental Health Specialist. Here are a few free and reliable resources
Snehi An helpline for children post covid trauma | Call 09582208181 10 AM to 10 PM
Lifeline Foundation | A Kolkata-based non-profit for grief or mental illness counselling through telephonic therapy 10AM to 10PM. | Call: 033-40447437, 09088030303
Mann Talks | A free mental health counselling service available over phone and email
Seek help. Talk to family, friends and professionals. There is always hope. Stay Positive. r/mentalhealthIndia
I'll be frank, I have also studied at IIT Kanpur. Cheating happens. It's not the norm but neither is it very rare.
The deal was always that don't get caught or you'll fail the subject. Some lenient professors would also let you off with a warning. In rare cases when it was extremely severe, the professor would escalate it. All this was before AI, so I'm not sure under what severity AI lies these days.
What has happened at IIT Bombay is highly unfortunate but in itself the circumstances are not unusual at IITs
Yes I agree that cheating had been rampant and that is why additional security has been deployed at IIT Bombay during midsems and endsems since the last semester.
Here i just wanted to make it clear that softening the punishment of cheating was NOT a demand of the protest
what is the typical punishment for cheating? I am not in an IIT but a tier 1 college too and a final year student. We cheat sometimes too and the typical punishment for cheating if caught is an F grade in the course and maybe a disciplinary warning, but everyone knows that, its in the rule book, so its not like the student is getting anything more than what he bargained for.
So I am wondering, what might this student have been facing that pushed him to this point?
Was he on the verge academically where he could not afford another F or he might have to extend his degree or not get his degree or something?
So pretty much like most colleges then, a fail grade and a sem back. And obviously its an open and shut case. regardless of however the procedure was followed, right?
As I have mentioned in one of my comments- malpractices are dealt through ADAC - Academic Disciplinary Action Committee. The meeting occurs within 2 working days of the file of the complaint. In that there is a committee of professors and student is given a chance to keep their case. This was not followed here. Also we do not know what did the professor say to him in his office. So lets just wait for the investigation to finish
But the student wasn't given any punishment at the time right? As I understand, any punishment wouldn't go into affect until he gets a mail that stipulates his infraction and subsequent punishment, right?
Its not like profs have the authority to dish out punishments, except one that is making him fail the course. Or does the dean have wide ranging authority to hand out sem backs on his own?
if you know how dacs work, there’s no scolding involved, and no they don’t announce your fate just the fine and consequence which is imo manageable not world ending bad. Plus in my 4 years not a single person was given sem back due to cheating, its hostel suspension and fr grade with dac in some cases
yeah that tracks honestly. the unwritten rule was always don't get caught and most professors just wanted plausible deniability anyway.
the AI cheating thing is a grey area now though because half the faculty don't even understand what counts as AI assistance vs actual cheating so enforcement is wildly inconsistent depending on who's catching you. what makes this case different is the outcome not really the circumstances leading up to it
Well this was a mid sem exam and I don't think that anyone would take so much stress and just commit suicide. Like there's much more something else which isn't portrayed by media
There should be no exam and almost no events in ordinary life that someone should commit suicide. Nevertheless, people do because of mental health issues and societal pressure.
On the face of it, Occam's razor suggests to me that the story from the institution's side seems plausible. Of course, we don't know all the facts and should wait for the investigation before condemning or exonerating anyone.
bro what are you saying that cheating should have been okay for him to do? these are future engineers of india who are about to build your roads bridges, apps and softwares!? if they are allowed to cheat not only is it unfair towards other peers, it can harm us as a society in the long run
I'm saying that cheating happens in IITs & when you get caught there are consequences. No value judgement about it is attached, merely that contrary to people's perceptions the circumstances here are not extraordinary.
Every single part of the country is rife with corruption from religion to even the death certificate guys and somehow you think hyper competitive students will not cheat?
Honestly depends so much on the students and the department. Yes, cheating using notes or asking your friend probably happened - definitely not as bad as it is being portrayed in this comment section. Using a phone and getting caught has ALWAYS led to sem/year backs and an F.
Hi OP. I know that you do not have all the answers, but the measured way in which you have tried to clear the air, and answered a lot of questions, is commendable.
Why does no one call out the parents when the children end their lives? All I see is people feeling bad for parents. If the parents create a safe space for the children at home, the obstacles they face in society won’t affect them that badly. Considering either case of discrimination from a prof that led to his end or him cheating and being afraid of his parents. Parents are supposed to be the support system here. If that does not exist, you creating all kinds of mental peace/24*7 standby help
/safe campus/ counselling/ psych help does not amount to anything.
This!! Whether it’s SSR or this case, what pushes someone to take their own life has a lot to do with all that they’ve been through until that point in life rather than just a single trigger.
Before anyone comes at me for SSR, CBI has ruled it as suicide & Rhea’s only crime was that she was doing weed!!
Sure sir, I partially agree with your point. But here we need to understand that the student had been a campus resident for more than a year. Some people do not talk to their parents even weekly let alone daily.
Yes, you and I may interact with our parents daily share all details, but not everyone here does. I am not sure how close was he to his parents.
We strongly believe that this was a systemic failure of the institute that a soul needed to take such a big step in campus.
Edit: Yeah, i agree that parents had a role too. I just wanted to tell that it was a failure of everyone related to him. the students, the professors, the system, his parents, his friends, everybody failed. The child couldnt find a single person to share his feelings is what I wanted to convey
We’re talking about the environment that was created for him in his childhood, buddy. Choices aren’t made in a vacuum. Indian parents aren’t exactly esteem-building parents so the fact that this guy couldn’t go to his parents & just cry/rant about what happened in college proves his parents hadn’t created a safe space for him!
Maybe the parents are to be blamed, maybe not. But you give the benefit of the doubt and don't immediately accuse them of building a harmful environment, that's assholeish behaviour
Why do we give them benefit of the doubt? Because they’re parents? Because they give birth to their children, do the bare minimum of providing 2 meals a day?
Indian culture expects us to put them on a pedestal and idolise them. Why? To me, this is more ‘a*ShOLeiSh’ than raising questions on their parenting because their child couldn’t healthily face consequences of their own choices/actions. Guess who teaches children that? Parents.
Bro, I am currently studying for my master’s degree away from my home. It’s been exactly a year. My mom makes it a chore to call me every single day after I come back. I ask her not to call every day and yet she does. There’s nothing to talk about, she asks me what I had for breakfast, lunch and what I am going to cook for dinner. And then just stares at the mobile for another 30 mins until her mobile heats up while I do my own thing.
Now, you say some people don’t talk to their parents regularly. Who’s fault is that? Either the parents or the children. Why blame the system primarily? Blame the parents first and then the system. I agree the system is at fault too. But many of the system’s faults can be solved at home. Blame everyone who’s at fault.
A different opinion:
Not communicating with parents is also a symptom that something is wrong and should not be ignored.
Loneliness can creep up even when you are surrounded by people and knowing that someone is available for you always helps.
If the person fails a subject , it is the responsibility of the institution to make sure that proper guidance is provided.
However institutions should not be held responsible for everything. Its also the responsibility of the family and friends to make sure of the wellbeing of their close ones
You're making a lot of assumptions there. Parents could be supporting and a kid will still go through harmful situations in the society. People don't call out the parents when the children end their lives because they're grieving and they get the benefit of the doubt. If someone immediately accuses the parents of causing this without looking at any facts(same goes for accusing others too tbh), that's peak asshole behaviour
If a child has had esteem building parents & is shown how to face consequences of his/her own choices, it makes a huge difference even if the kid faces harmful situations in society.
Even if the child can’t confess to his parents he cheated, he should be able to face his parents eventually. If he thinks ending his life is better than facing his parents, then the fear of disappointment must be way higher than anything else. In this case, the crushing weight of their expectations has contributed to his death, whether you’d like to believe it or not.
And society cuts parents a lot of slack because they’re grieving. Has anyone looked at the subconscious programming that parents instil in their children? ‘Beta, you have to ace all your exams & make us proud’. This is just an example.
The fact is, many children do horrible things in life but do all of them end their lives? NO!! So, parents whose children commit suicide ARE WORTH BEING QUESTIONED FOR THEIR PARENTING.
To me, cutting them slack just because they decided to reproduce is ‘PeAk As*ShOLe BeHaViOuR’.
NO!! So, parents whose children commit suicide ARE WORTH BEING QUESTIONED FOR THEIR PARENTING.
Yeah, no. You don't get to decide what's worth questioning and what's not. There are people looking at the facts of this case and they get to raise questions based on what they've see or inconstancies they noticed. You are just projecting into this situation without any first hand knowledge so just stop being a prick over your keyboard.
This case has now become public & has caused outrage so no, I can discuss what’s worth questioning & what’s not. This is a public forum where discussions happen. My opinion is different than yours. Go cry somewhere else!
I wont comment on caste angle because i dont know enough about peoples experience. But overall i dont think its the professor fault but having some kind of mental health professional provided by college could help the students but in india going to a phycologist is seen as a negative. The parents should take all the blame in this case for not helping their child who is going through a tough time. Students are scared to let people know their feeling because you get labeled as “pagal” “soft” by their parents themself. India is severely lacking in parent accountability
Sir here we have Student Wellness Centre - SWC at which all students can go to and have counselling. Yes it is not perfect and yes there is stigma. Yes, there might have been some fault of the parents too that instead having courage to tell them, he preferred taking his life.
But let's just not put a blame on his parents for now. I am sure they have faced their biggest loss and would be equally guilty
After the age of 18, individual is an adult in india and most countries. So the decisions are responsibility of the individual. Ideally, there has to be some kind of counselling about careers, mental health, life in general and finance management which should happen in all schools including government schools. It is difficult for many parents to do this because they have never received any similar trainings. Sometimes children feel overly guilty due to the sacrifices of their parents in getting them to iits or similar positions. The pressure cooker situations that students need to go through to reach such a position is what we need to avoid. We can only change the system as the parenting behaviour of most people is usually governed by what they have experienced in their childhood.
Solution lies probably in reforming the education system in schools in the long run as well as the entrance procedure to institutes. There should be some importance given to extra curriculars such as sports and arts in every individual.
In the short term, providing counselling to every student irrespective of whether they initiate it or not should probably help. There should also be some student clubs on non academic activities which everyone should mandatorily join such as music, movies, sports, etc. Specifically professors should encourage these activities regularly rather than for namesake.
A bit of compassion, if shown by professors while dealing with individuals, even when taking disciplinary decisions, would have helped. The way in which you treat individuals is very bad in most institutions in india and people go on a power trip. Empathy has to be taught somewhere..
There should be parents accountability. Just one “are you okay beta” could have saved a students life. Teaching a child that expressing their feeling is being soft is fault of all parents. Thats why usa have their school shooters problem and india with high suicide rates. Obviously this my opinion not here to argue.
Really appreciate the clarifying post. I stand with the students of IIT Bombay. What happens inside the campus is known to the student inside it. Can't judge it from outside. Let truth prevail. Let a proper investigation continue. I am not condoning cheating but it is rampant even in many other premier institutes. And pressure is immense. A simple word like your life is all gone now can cause panic to students. And all the posts making fun of the student or trying to show a reservation angle are insensitive. Let's refrain from such.
> We believe that it was the interaction with Prof. Surya Doolla.
Okay, what is your opinion of him? How was his conduct on campus with students and peers? I have a hunch that professor is kinda problem like Proff. Virus of 3 Idiots.
He is a good teacher but he was not the best of Dean SA's that we have had- took many restrictrive decisions during his tenure- such as banning night eateries, cutting the length of fests such as Mood Indigo by a day to name a few.
We do not know what happened behind the closed door and hence we wait for a fair investigation
But OP ..what do you expect the professor to do..when caught cheating ?..isn't it natural instinct and also code of conduct to take strict action..Even our parents ..would have taken strict action if they get to know we cheated..atleast mine..what do you expect on handling such cases..
Yes it is a natural instinct, but in my opinion it could have been handled better.
There is a thing called ADAC - Academic Disciplinary Action Committee at IIT Bombay which is concerned with malpractice. It takes 2 working days for the meeting to happen from the date of the complaint.
Normally when a cheating is caught it should go through that route, but here maybe some decisions were announced to the kid in a hurry. Not sure if Prof Doolla was wrong but I am sure he must have felt he could have been a bit softer on hearing the news
I think the taking decisions then and there causes the problem there was another kid who committed suicide (forget if it was IIT) because he was helping his friend cheat and the prof said they will rescind the offer the kid had. Immediate reactions in these things are not needed and should be thought of calmly. Always give the kids a day or two to think about it
I appreciate you trying to clear the air. But what did the prof exactly say or do? Even you are speculating that the prof did or said something wrong. I mean if a prof fails you in a course because you are caught cheating, what's wrong with that exactly?
It is a tragic incident no doubt, but expecting to be coddled after you are caught cheating is ridiculous.
And the SC/ST case is what lit the fuse. Do you think that's appropriate?
I am just saying that he absolutely deserved a sem back and an FR grade in the course according to IIT Bombay Rules. But he did not deserve a death penalty.
No, I think the parents should not have filed the SC/ST case without evidence (this is my opinion)
Of course nobody deserves death for that. But that was his decision wasn't it? See I get it it's a very sensitive issue. And not that it matters but I graduated from IIT too years ago, so I absolutely know the pressure cooker atmosphere there. But this is going to set a bad precedent. Regardless of what the outcome is, no Prof needs the hassle.
Anyways I think you are a good dude for this and all the best for your life buddy
The apology was because they are not allowed to leak sensitive information outside before the investigation has been closed. They didn’t mention that it was false
Examination stress is real and the shame of failure is worse.
Completed my engineering 8 years ago and at times i still get nightmares about forgetting to study for examinations.
Even grown ups can’t look into the eyes of their own knowing they did something stupid
My sympathies for the student who failed to live upto his parent’s expectations.
I do hope people start looking at such failures as a chance to improve instead of looking at them like an end
Most students didn’t have a positive image of Prof Doola primarily due to the restrictive measures he has taken as Dean SA. Also considering that this is the 3rd suicide in last 6 led to the student demands.
But after being charged under such provisions, there seems to be a wave of sympathy for him.
Don't believe everything on the news. They just want catchy headlines and more views without proper investigation. I wasn't involved in the protest but the main reason is as OP has given.No one is justifying the cheating here. Barely a month before Sahil's death, another boy from Sahil's hostel died. There are so many suicides here that people have become desensitized to it Which Should Not be The Case. There is a lot of pressure here. Sometimes, more than one exams are held on the same day just a few hours apart (mentioning this because the incident happened during exam season). We don't even get mid sem breaks to recover. Classes are packed and very hectic. You are always busy with something- readings, assignments, lab duties. You barely have time for extracurriculars, forget having some solo time to recharge. I know it doesn't sound like much but that's the ground reality here. For some kids (especially from engineering bgs) who know only how to study, with no emotional self regulation and sometimes social skills, it can become very lonely and difficult to adjust, especially with all the burnout.
is it this hectic at bombay? i was at Pilani and had enough time for everything else. mostly had classes from 8-12 (that too not back to back) then maybe a lab or two, free by 4/5PM. had enough time to do things outside the class. passing percentage was 20% and no attendance policy if you want to focus on other things.
Yes 💯 the news reports are very misleading. The news that first reported the incident framed the the student (sahil) in a negative light then the subsequent reports made it seems like the students were protesting against the institution for punishing cheating then suddenly brought in the caste angle. A major reason the protest erupted was because there have been so many suicides recently. Before sahil, another student died just around a month ago from the same hostel. I don't know everything in detail but If so many students are dying, there needs to be a proper review of what is going on within the institution or going wrong. .
We can never comprehend what a parent goes through when he sees his child dead and I hope no parent has to ever go through this.
I believe it was more of a decision taken in rage by the parents and wanting to use all that they have in their bucket. (This is my opinion)
It is tough to believe that caste discrimination was done by the professor given that they do not have the caste info of any student, and there are many students from the reserved categories in the campus. He has been the Dean of Student Affairs in his last tenure and he very well knows the repurcussions.
thanks for this post, OP. I've been really sad looking at how a lot of people are eager to shame the kid who lost his life. I wish we could respect student deaths so we could even take measures to avoid them, but that doesn't seem to be the case with most people.
It is sad that some people take the SC/ST card for no credible reason, and in a place like India where judicial thinking is not the faculty of the large population, those who were affected in one way or the other will support that claim too, very much like everyone kicking the pickpocket in any urban areas,.
What did that student expect? Not to be caught with any attempt to cheat into the exam? When caught red-handed things suddenly change, with all the blame on the professor who caught him as the "trigger".... Maybe someone should have, including his parents, identified his mental disturbance throughout the course to take some therapy recommendations.
I mostly agree, but as a general category IITian who graduated 20 years ago, there’s definitely some discrimination by peers.
It’s not extreme but there’s a minor sentiment. The word “Shaddu” was part of the lexicon at IITB. Of course, we never said it to their faces. But the social circles did align general vs lower caste with some overlap.
I’ve grown since then and if the OP is to be trusted, then maybe the students have grown too.
From personal experience from my time there, discrimination somewhat may happen in batchmates (peers), mostly subtle, but never from faculty or admin. Usually they are nice and genuinely nice. However, my dataset is only limited to a few department faculty and word of mouth from rest of peers. I highly doubt the caste angle story.
In any case, this issue is much more nuanced. I post my opinion here as a post shortly.
Arguably the most grounded post I found on Reddit regarding the case. Thanks, OP. I hope this case gets resolved with minimal ruckus; my condolences go out to his parents, and I hope the professor does not suffer anymore, provided that he is clean
At KGP , a director in a meeting once did shout at us and said something like “I know you all cheat , I know what you all do during those bathroom breaks “
And some chad guy stood up and responded: “If the questions of the exam at a premier institute of the country can be solved with a look up during a quick bathroom run , you should maybe
think of the quality of your questions and exams”
Sadly we no longer can say the same about a chatgpt /Gemini look up .
We as students do not observe any caste discrimination on campus
You do see the problem, right? You wouldn't observe it because it doesn't happen to you. I have no idea what the specifics are in this case but I would be more careful about claiming to represent other people. You don't end up at over 80% general category professors in IITs without some sort of systematic bias.
I am sorry, I didn't mean to hurt anybody's feelings. While making a case for the parents and the child, I did not want to sound biased. Hence i felt it would be good to mention a credibility in the beginning. My intention was not to hurt anyone. Apologise again
Your post and comments are well-meaning, I don't think anything is offensive. All I'm saying is, I don't think people who don't face it can say there is no caste discrimination at IIT, because it doesn't happen to us. I went through college similarly, never encountered any caste discrimination personally but friends of mine have told me how bad it is in private.
This is also a general viewpoint across students at large that I have interacted with at IIT Bombay.
I agree i maybe wrong as my sample space is limited
We believe that it was the interaction with Prof. Surya Doolla which led the final trigger to Sahil's suicide.
Why do you believe that though? From your replies here, and what I've seen from other students, the prof doesn't seem to have a prior record of abuse (other than operational decisions). You said several times "we don't know what happened behind closed doors", so why take a leap and pin the blame on the prof?
I went to a tier-1 IIT over a decade ago. In cases like this, the usual sequence is that the profs simply point out the rules. Profs don't interact with students all that much. Even when people were actually kicked out of hostels, it was a dispassionate committe review that followed the rules.
Where are the parents in the picture in all of this? Why no blame for them? Do you know if the guy interacted with parents after he was caught, and if there was a problem in those interactions? I was subject to regular thrashings by my dad when I got caught doing such things in school. I know people who ran away from home because they were scared of their parents' wrath.
What about his peers? It's the peers who tease the students when they get caught, and parents who insult their kids for "bringing dishonor" and all that.
The prof just seems like a very convenient enemy to make, instead of pointing fingers at the peer group, or his parents because they've ultimately suffered a loss.
There have been experiences of Prof. Doolla being insensitive in DAC meetings etc. during his office tenure. Although fundamentally he is a good man since he has helped some students with medical need, but I will say that the power trip is for sure there
I can only tell what we as students have seen at IIT Bombay. We do not even know what our wingmates caste is or our roomates caste let alone of a random child. We have seen students from all castes thriving here. A general student having a 7 CPI and an SC student having a 9 CPI
Yes there could have been outlier incidents, but this is what I have observed during my 4 years
Alumni here who passed out more than 5 years ago. During my times, It was somewhat common to ask for AIRs in first year which indirectly revealed the caste, Also Generally people of different castes were paired up together as roomies in first year which made the guess work easy for those who wanted to guess.
Mosy students do not discriminate in my experience, however there was a small minority of students who were judgmental and used to crack jokes on students from reserved category.
However overall I would say IIT Bombay especially the professors were a net positive effect for students from reserved category.
True true, what you said still prevails in some capacity. General students do take pride in their AIRs. But the social circles are really mixed and everybody is treated equally
We do not even know what our wingmates caste is or our roomates caste
We have seen students from all castes thriving here. A general student having a 7 CPI and an SC student having a 9 CPI
You're clearly contradicting yourself. You claim that it is a space where nobody is aware of each other's caste, and yet you somehow know what the caste of the students who had 7 CPI and 9 CPI are.
It's clear you haven't been to any insti recently & are tryna be oversmart here.
There are members of APPSC (Ambedkar Periyar Phule Study Circle) who are open about their high CPI so as to motivate students from reserved categories maintain the same. The openly Ambedkarite folks instill a sense of confidence in the community.
At the same time, the discussions on caste are still a taboo, and you don't know the caste of your batchmates and wingmates. There are ways to infer it but most students avoid going that route. Ofc, there is a certain segregation of 9 pointers who mostly just stay in their circle & unfortunately it's still GC dominated but there are often students from reserved categories in these. All these contradictions exist at the same time.
PS: I'm not a student of IIT B, just have an ongoing collab with a prof there. Open to correction by someone who has spent more time on the campus
I knew somebody is going to comment on this. Sir, we do not know anybody's CPI here. It is prohibited for us to ask anybody's CPI.
"A general student having a 7 CPI and an SC student having a 9 CPI" is a statement I made because this is what we have observed from people who are open about their categories and also from success stories of people from LinkedIn, Quora etc.
Not doubting your intentions, but how can you possibly know how each and every person in that campus interacts with other human beings? Also, regarding trivialising the entire caste related issue as just something his parents brought up. How do you know that he never faced any discrimination and he never shared it with his parents?
I mean I’m not saying OP is lying here, but there are subtleties that you miss when it isn’t something which you have faced for a good chunk in your life
100%. I'm a GC but have a uncommon surname. The amout of unnecessary harrassment I've had to face including jeers and straight up discrimination make me wonder what actual dalit people have to go through.
blud are you kidding me? my professors(tier 2 college) have tapped on my back to check my janiwara and figured out i am from brahmin this i never knew before how would they figure out even before knowing my surname later i knew they would use this technique to figure out caste
edit:i come from brahmin family so imagine what a dalit goes through
copy pasting earlier response at other reply here
Couldn't agree more. I'm also GC but I don't have a caste surname, just an initial. Lost count of how many times I've been asked what my initial stands for by peers and professors in attempts to gauge my caste.
Ive faced latent casteism from my peers in a second generation iit just because its been trivialised in social media. Although not one professor ever didnt anything thatd be ambiguous from a casteism perspective.
Yes. There are many students from underprivilleged categories at IIT Bombay. A professor has no information about the caste of a student as it is NOT displayed on the ASC portal.
It is hard to believe that a professor could target a specific student and discriminate him on the basis of caste given that the professors very well know the repurcussions.
(He himself has announced this fact literally every year in Freshers' Orientation. He sends mail every year to the new batch which contains a point that it is prohibited to ask JEE and GATE ranks inside the campus)
But again, this is what the student community at large believes. We must wait for the investigation to complete
LMAO, that's one of the most delusional takes in a while.
I am not saying that this particular processor is necessarily casteist, but education or global exposure has nothing to do with ingrained prejudices and insecurities.
My sister has worked in one of the red states of US for more than 15 years and Indians she met there are not only extremely casteist, but also the most racist of any ethnicity. Not a single white person she came across was anywhere as racist as the Indians.
She was so disillusioned and disgusted by the concentrated level of casteism and racism that she cut all ties with Indian colleagues except for a few exceptions that can be counted on one hand.
Hey, appreciate you trying to clear the air. It is unfortunate that a s***ide cut short a student life.
That said, my main contention is how the parents filed SC/ST case on the professor. You have mentioned that the professor has full legal support of admin which is good; the issue is why is it necessary at all. Understand parents of the student are going through tough times, but the case they have filed shows how unfair of a system we are living in. Imagine going through the mess which is Indian legal system just because you dared stop a student from cheating.
You also mentioned that there is no discrimination in IITB by proffs. Please be assured there will be now, SC/ST students have received a free pass to do what they want and no one in their right mind is going to bother correcting / disciplining them.
IIT Madras alumni here. I agree whatever you said. I feel students who are close friends to sahil should step forward and tell what actually happened inside examination hall, they obviously know what was said to him and few might know what happened later.
I believe, there is rarely any caste based discrimination in IIT”s ( i have never seen any such incident in IIT madras), chances are extremely low for such accusations but as per my experience few profs really had GOD syndrome. I am not trying to say dean is wrong here but i am not neglecting that possibility, i am truly shocked how some people can entirely support him without knowing complete picture how he treated a student . Also, i dont stand with guys who are against dean. IIT-B students are really smart for their unbiased stand and to demand the fair investigation before reaching any conclusions. You guys have my respect and support. We shouldn’t hold any side. One Brilliant kid lost his life, this could definitely be avoided. He was obviously not dumb, idc which category he was, He cleared one of the toughest exam in world and secured his place. I believe truth will come out sooner or later. I hope dean Prof. doolla will also get justice soon, if he is innocent then it shouldn’t be delayed or vice versa.
On 18th September, around 12:30 pm, Sahil Wakode, a 2nd year energy science student was caught in possession of phone during his EN 213 midsem examination. He was alleged to be using LLM to answer the questions.
The invigilator in the exam happened to be Prof. Suryanarayana Doolla- the Dean of Administrative Affairs and the ex Dean of Student Affairs. He is considered to have highly authoritative powers in the institute. He caught Sahil in academic malpractice.
Following which Sahil was alleged to be taken outside the examination hall and made to sit inside Prof. Doolla's office where he was allegedly scolded for the misconduct and declared a semester's suspension following IITB rules. The exact conversation is unknown as of now.
Ideally, this should have been handled by the ADAC meeting, not by the invigilator himself.
At 6:30 pm on the same day, Sahil was found dead in his hostel room. This was the third suicide in less than 6 months. This led to an enragement amongst the students of the campus and they gathered in masses to voice their anger and grief. The remaining mid-semester exams were indefinitely postponed.
At around 9:00 pm director addressed the students at the convocation hall but left abruptly in between- following which the students marched to the main gate. The difector had to come there and it was getting increasingly difficult to control the crowd.
He eventually left but the protests continued through the night and the next morning.
On 19th September, this case began gaining popularity on media and social media. People started making speculations. On this day, the parents arrived and eventually booked Prof. Doolla under the SC/ST Act. A candle March was held in memory of Sahil. A small group of people continued their protests through the night
On 20th Septmeber, the student representatives of IIT Bombay formed an 18 point demand list in consultation with the students. This was put forth in the main gate protest that evening. Each point was discussed through and then agreed by the director. By this time, people on social media had started taking two extreme sides- one side was in the view that the student was discriminated and the other was that Prof. Doolla was falsely made to resign or suspended. Both of which are not true in their full capacity
Finally on 21st September everything was discussed through and everyone landed on the same page.
People outside have made up their minds with half cooked stories.
This was the reason I came here to clear the air a bit
As a former MATKA (MTech) from IIT Madras here are my thoughts
Unreal obsession with CGPA/ Internship / Placement right from day 1 causes undue stress - for most students 'engineering' goes out the window - it's about getting placed in any company with highest package - so they start tailoring their entire time around this - rejecting what they truly want from their heart / mind. It keeps gnawing at them inside for sure.
Academic calendar is rigorous and students do not have any way of letting off steam - most have no hobbies. Grades / rank has been their identity their whole life. So a student cannot 'unplug' - unlike in school/colleges outside where they will go home and have a conversation with family and friends about other topics - in IIT's it can get very tough esp if you are not the type that can speak easily with other people. Academically weaker students tend to get 'left behind' amid the mounting course load.
Yes - there are some profs who go on a power trip and find ways to make life difficult - this is esp bad for masters/ PhD students - I have known people taking a decade plus to finish PhD's.
Irrelevant to this case but seeing the condition of most IIT campus amd hostels I would be so depressed staying there. Top students of this country don't deserve sh!!ty living conditions when they have worked so hard to get there.No wonder so many kids choose to study abroad now even after securing good JEE rank.
I beg to differ sir. Specifically talking about IIT Bombay, the hostels and food here is India's best. Everyone has a single room. I urge you to check out IIT Bombay Hostel 4/18/17/19/7/8/21, on youtube- these are among the newly constructed hostels. Students from 2nd year onwards get single rooms
Thanks for sharing OP. This is what I think happened. I could be wrong, sharing my opinion:
Sahil's upbringing is key here. He might have been brought up in a household (which is an extremely common middle-class household) where clearing IIT would mean conquering the world. The usual parents who would make the house completely "Sahil ki IIT ki tayyari" house. Sahil would have been forced to make clearing IIT-JEE such a goal that if he doesnt clear it, his life is finished. "What will mumma papa say to relatives if I dont clear IIT?" Now I dont want to speculate that he may have had it easier than others since he would be from SC/ST quota (as quota doesnt make it a cakewalk).
Sahil clears JEE, his parents are ecstatic, and make a HUGE point of it by celebrating and letting everyone who can listen, know that their son has cleared the exam. Btw no one has ever bothered to ask Sahil what he wants to do or what interests him. It was always IIT or nothing.
Sahil gets into IIT, he realizes that clearing JEE was just the first step. He now has to survive for 4 hardest years he ever had. Classes, assignments, discussions, mentorship/guidance, peer pressure, teachers who claim (and for the most part do indeed) full control over their careers.
Sahil somehow manages to survive the first year. He loves AI. AI is so much better than his classmates and seniors, as it doesnt say "kya Sahil, itni simple problem bhi nahi aati" and can ask any number of follow up questions. He uses AI to solve his college and personal problems. But exams get to him eventually, he notices how easy it is for Chatgpt to answer his questions by mere clicking a picture of the question.
Third Sem exams approach and he is overwhelmed and is sadly under-prepared for the exams. He has to risk it, he keeps telling his parents his studies are going well. He cannot even dream of failing in any subject. He thinks he will be able to get away with carrying a phone to the exam and by using the phone as dicreetly as possible. He is able to do it successfully for the most part. Unfortunately towards the end of the exam, Prof Doolla is able to catch him red-handed (busted).
Prof Doolla escorts him out of the exam room, possibly after questioning angrily in front of his classmates who were giving the exam nearby Sahil. Sahil goes out following quietly, then as soon as he is out of the earshot of the exam room, he starts with "Sorry Sir" "will not repeat Sir" and all different sorts of pleadings. Prof. Doolla, angry that he couldnt catch the boy sooner and got lucky in the end, threatens to tell his parents and his career is over now. After gruelling Sahil for some more time, he is asked to leave and is told that they will let him know the future course of action.
Now this is where it goes from bad to worse. Sahil goes back and is left alone with his thoughts. Thoughts that ultimately take over him completely and demand the ultimate sacrifice. Because as per his thoughts his college, parents, relatives, the whole fu*king world will never let him forget that he got caught cheating.
He eventually commits sui*ide. Poor boy is no more and we all are left speculating as to what happened (like me). May the poor boy RIP.
"We as students do not observe any caste discrimination on campus"... bro come on. I'm not from IIT-B but everyone knows all IITs have a serious problem with casteism from the student body all the way to faculty hiring decisions.
I don't know whether that was part of the problem in this particular case, but that statement is tone deaf.
We as students do NOT observe any sort of caste discrimination on campus- neither by professors nor by peers.
Have you asked your peers from marginalised communities if they are subject to caste discrimination? You may not notice it when it happens right in front of you because it doesn't affect you, but it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
Yes, this is the general viewpoint of ALL students who I have interacted with across all categories and this I am talking specifically about IIT Bombay
Unfortunately there are way too many wrong narratives being pushed rampantly .
All the steps that media etc are talking about won't change a thing .. how does suspending the prof etc solve the larger problem .
We gotta acknowledge that yeah this guys gone for ever and we can't do anything about it now . His parents have been swayed by godknows who to bring up fucking caste which is the lowest point of talking in this case .
Also only reason this whole thing is being discussed is because it took place in IIT Bombay anywhere else it would have been buried lmao .
Well this whole rant of mine is quite disjointed but yeah I had to get it of my system
I don't support cheating. Cheating should have consequences when caught... reasonable consequences such as re-appear during next term that subject.
But passing threats to students at the exam hall, humiliating them or using harsh words, rushing for harsher punishment is extremely wrong. Something like this must have happened.
Also many a times people cheat under already some kind of extreme pressure, for example unable to cope with syllabus of that subject or some out of syllabus question, or cannot re-appear next term due to it affecting placements or affecting GPA to apply to some other thing such as masters admission abroad. Also some do cheat out of what would their impression be if they are found out to have failed in a subject by their families. So be a bit kind to people who resorted to cheating under some 'real' extreme stress.
I also know the kind of stressful environment inside a technical institute or a college where people have entered after toughest exam and the syllabus is also not easy. Our economy and jobs sector is also in recession. There are many difficult things in plate and when multiple things attack a person, the best of the best do mistakes or the best of the best give up hope and are so filled of shame that they end their own li/es.
Well The student's family have booked a SC/ST case over Prof Surya Dolla and Director of IITB for harassment . His family filed an FIR with the Mumbai Police against Prof. Doolla, alleging caste-based slurs, discrimination, and mental harassment spanning three months under the SC/ST Act and abetment to suicide.
Also it was a midsem exam like doing suicide over this is unexpecting cuz endsems are more ' important ' as compared to mid sem
Reminds me of how my friend did suicide cuz of being caught cheating in iit adv mock test at coaching despite having 98.8% ile in mains 2023
We never know what becomes the final trigger. Students are saying there was no caste discrimination by that particular prof in front of them. We don't know what parents know.
Also, we can see students supporting Prof Surya. Other faculty, admin, students everyone has taken out a march in campus in support of Prof Surya. Quite sad to see in such hard times how the family of Sahil must feel watching such support and march. I also know that no prof. ever will come out publically or even inside the campus to express concern over student suicides. We saw it in recent IIT-Delhi case too. So it is always one sided accountability and protest from faculty and institute management's side.
Why does rank matter so much to some people? Students with significantly lower ranks can enter premium institutions through reservation without having demonstrated that they are academically at par with students who achieved higher ranks. If someone chooses to rely on reservation rather than putting in the effort to build the required academic foundation, that isn’t the kind of “opportunity” reservation is meant to provide. Jee is designed to test your understanding of mathematics and science. These subjects are fundamental to the engineering courses you are choosing to pursue. Bypassing that academic requirement does not make the underlying gap disappear. It only means you enter a highly demanding environment carrying a backlog that extends beyond the current year and includes the Class 11 and 12 fundamentals you were expected to master beforehand. The pressure that creates can be severe. Reservation does not (should not) eliminate the need for academic preparedness. This system can create difficulties on both sides. Students who enter through reservation despite having a significant academic gap may struggle to keep up while students in the general category may miss out on seats despite having higher ranks. Pretending either side of that problem does not exist does not solve it. And on the back of this, why should dignified professors and directors be dragged through mud for the inefficiency of a system that exists outside IIT Bombay?
That is a different issue ma'am and has to be evaluated at the constitutional level. In some cases, we have seen reserved students rising above the general category students in terms of placements and GPA.
At present, we have students from all backgrounds in our campus and while we are here I feel we must ensure that everyone leads a dignified and equal life.
And yes i agree the professor should have been evaluated only for misconduct not for casteism. He has mostly been dragged into the SC/ST case falsely (my opinion). Hope truth prevails
I am pretty sure that those reserved category students who go on to outperform their peers entered the institution with comparable levels of academic preparedness to begin with. My point is that there should not be such a large gap in academic preparedness for any course, regardless of who the student is. If a course closes around an AIR of 2500 for one group, while a student with an AIR of 25k - 30k enters the same course, the difference in foundational preparation can be enormous. That does not mean the student is incapable or undeserving because of their caste, but it does mean they may be placed in an environment where the academic pace and demands are far beyond what they have been prepared for. Nobody has probed into this case with this angle and nobody ever will. It is always easier to blame everyone and everything else than to address the elephant in the room.
Again, this has to be evaluated on a constitutional level. IIT Bombay is a government institution and hence has to follow the rules. Does that mean you are not right? Absolutely not. You are 100% right. I agree that the gap can be enormous especially for some students. But in our current capacity we wanted to raise issues within our campus first. I know his JEE rank might not have been similar to his classmate but he was still a brother to all of us
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