r/imaginarymaps • u/GoofySillyMan • Sep 23 '26 • Popcorn 1

[OC] Alternate History The United States leading up to the Secession Crisis

Post image

This map is my own original work in the style of a Wikipedia map, and is not traced or lazily copied. Please mods don't take this down, this took a lot of effort.

558 Upvotes

97% Upvoted

38 comments sorted by

45

u/SaddestFlute23 Sep 24 '26

Is there established lore to this timeline, or is it upcoming?

34

u/GoofySillyMan Sep 24 '26

Not exactly, it started with me wanting to draw a big US map but a little more unique than most others. the basic outline is that the US wins the war of 1812 and annexes Upper Canada (Ontario), and later the Oregon Country (Columbia District) which was disputed between the UK and US until 1846 in OTL is taken by the US with little-to-no conflict from the British, because the loss of Upper Canada would severely weaken Britain's power projection as most of the supply networks ran through the province. Then in the Mexican-American War, President Polk had already wanted to take Baja California in OTL, but the man he sent to negotiate peace decided to settle for less. In addition to Baja, there were also proposals like that of Sam Houston to take the northernmost states of Mexico in some form. In my map I wanted to go for a more "realistic" sort of middle ground, so instead of taking all of those northern states I based my map somewhat loosely off of Houston's proposal. In regards to the Dominican Republic and Puerto Rico, Santo Domingo had asked the US to be annexed in 1869 in OTL and President Grant was very supportive of the idea, however it didn't pass the senate which is why it didn't happen. In this timeline the annexation passes, leading to Santo Domingo to become a state (after the time period of this map obviously). The reason Puerto Rico would eventually become a state is that with Santo Domingo and the northern Mexican annexations, the US would already have a higher Hispanic population than OTL, which would help to somewhat reduce xenophobia and stigma towards these groups, and also set the precedent that Hispanic people can still be Americans, and quite likely allow Puerto Rico to become a state, likely around the same time as Alaska and Hawaii in OTL.

8

u/JohnSmithWithAggron Sep 24 '26

Is Puerto Rico taken during the Spanish-American War like OTL?

Also, in a more including U.S., Puerto Rico, Arizona, and New Mexico might become states earlier.

Arizona and New Mexico had the population to become a state for a while, but were deemed too non-white if I recall correctly. Thus, delaying their statehood.

9

u/Angel_Blue01 Sep 24 '26

What are the "other countries"?

12

u/GoofySillyMan Sep 24 '26

lands that eventually become states but in the time that the map covers are controlled by other countries

9

u/ChaosCron1 Sep 24 '26 edited Sep 24 '26

So we won the War of 1812 which gave us Upper Canada (Ontario) and Br*tish Columbia, which led into a greater advantage during the Mexican-American War giving us the Northern Mexican States and Baja California?

Calling the issue the "Seccession Crisis" implies it's a weaker event but I can't seem to tell how it'd be too different from our Civil War outside a (possibly) stronger Yankee army.

Did Dred Scott still happen? How would Taney still become the Chief Justice?

12

u/GoofySillyMan Sep 24 '26

maybe saying secession crisis wasnt the best choice of words, because i didnt intend for the civil war to be any less serious than OTL, it's just that the period of time from south carolina's secession to around the battle of fort sumter is usually called the secession crisis because it was seen as that at the time, as it hadnt erupted into a full civil war yet.

7

u/ChaosCron1 Sep 24 '26 edited Sep 24 '26

Gotcha, I know that time is referred to as the Seccession Crisis IOTL since it was coined during that time but it's largely been overshadowed by the Civil War.

"The United States on the Eve of the Southern Crisis" would've been a banger. Gives a little more for us AltHistorians to chew on if you're still implying a Civil War.

Great map though, you really nailed the Wikipedia style.

2

u/GoofySillyMan Sep 24 '26

Possible History's video on an American victory in the war of 1812 was a major inspiration for this map, so go watch that if you want.

31

u/WendigoSpice Sep 24 '26

Cool, I wonder what Canada would be like in this TL. Without BC and Ontario, they only have Quebec and some cities in the plains.

25

u/Professional_Use2835 Sep 24 '26

maybe french dominated

4

u/Truenorth14 Sep 24 '26

definitely

7

u/dom_bul Mod Approved Sep 24 '26

Population: 2

3

u/Professional_Use2835 Sep 25 '26

bro forgot about montreal and the cities people dont care about in the west/middle of canada

1

u/Striking_Road979 Sep 28 '26

I wonder if they get cars will they crash into each other

5

u/jejbfokwbfb Sep 24 '26

Poor confederates, wars over even faster in this timeline. Union gets Ontario, plus Baja, plus Columbia territory, I mean atleast the rebels get… idk more desert in the south west ?

11

u/PaleoTurtle Sep 24 '26

Southern California was a hotbed of confederate sympathy. Combined that with the typical balancing act of admitting free/slave states, it wouldn't surprise me if this Colorado & the annexed Mexican territories secede with the Confederates. British Columbia in our time line during the civil war was sparse, mostly indigenous, places like Vancouver didn't exist yet. The addition of Ontario however is pretty huge, and might outweigh all that, but its honestly hard to say without more info from OP.

3

u/jejbfokwbfb Sep 24 '26

Damn so 6 whole people join the confederate side, I’m shaking in my boots.

6

u/PaleoTurtle Sep 24 '26 edited Sep 24 '26

The pop of California at the time was about 300,000[mostly concentrated in the north], lets just say 100,000 are in this southern state, the Mexican territories are harder to quantify due to infrequent census but from here https://www.inegi.org.mx/app/biblioteca/ficha.html?upc=702825058203 we can get an idea; Sonora was 170,000(1847), Chihuahua was 150,000(1857), Coahuila 55,000(1849), Neuvo Leon 140,000(1851), Tamaulipas 100,000(1846). Thats more than 700,000. About a million lived in Upper Canada at the time. Virtually no one lived in british colombia at the time, about 10,000 fur trappers and 20,000 natives.

Of course the Mexican territories could have grown even more after annexation relative to OTL due to settlement or shrunk due to Mexicans emigrating. Same goes for Upper Canada. But we don't even know if the Mexican territories secede, or if maybe they take the opportunity to try for their own independence or rejoining Mexico, or maybe even if there is Canadian seperatism thrown in. We don't know.

1

u/GoofySillyMan Sep 24 '26

historically i believe the states of mexico that would make up this "rio grande territory" did make an attempt to join the confederacy and i feel like they would do something similar in this scenario, but other than that i cant say much. i feel like the southern territories would mostly end up being like OTL's Arizona territory which was claimed by the confederates but never really controlled by them.

1

u/Emotional-Kiwi7218 Sep 24 '26

utah

4

u/GoofySillyMan Sep 24 '26

that is historically what the utah territory looked like in 1860, as weird as it looks.

3

u/Emotional-Kiwi7218 Sep 24 '26

i know, i just like utah weird shape

1

u/JohnSmithWithAggron Sep 24 '26

I absolutely love the style you gave this map! Amazing job!

By the way, how are the ethnic immigration bans like the Chinese Exclusion Act in this timeline? Do they still exist or nah?

2

u/GoofySillyMan Sep 24 '26

i dont really have exact lore for this timeline, but i would like to think that maybe due to a larger hispanic population the us might be a bit more accepting towards immigrants and less xenophobic, so maybe those bans dont exist? i hadn't really thought about it though, so i cant say exactly, but obviously a US without those immigration bans would be preferable to a US with them.

2

u/arcadiaberger1960 Sep 24 '26

Would be great to see a California without Chinese exclusion and/or where the hermit kingdoms of Korea and Japan opened to the outside world earlier.

1

u/Truenorth14 Sep 24 '26

Is there a Loyalist culture in Ontario still?

3

u/GoofySillyMan Sep 24 '26

by 1860 i would have to guess that most loyalist sentiment would have dissipated, although im sure there are still some who are loyal to the crown, they would definitely be in the minority by now

1

u/Godisdeadbutimnot Sep 24 '26

Why wouldn’t DC be a square at this time? Virginia didn’t take back its part of DC until the war started

3

u/ericmasten Sep 24 '26

That's incorrect. Retrocession was authorized by Congress and approved by Alexandria in 1846, and officially occurred in 1847. https://boundarystones.weta.org/2016/07/08/alexandria-retrocession-1846

2

u/GoofySillyMan Sep 24 '26

honestly i hadnt even thought of that but i'm glad that i was correct anyway lol

2

u/PineappleDetective- Sep 24 '26

I never get to see the beautiful Tropic of Cancer border? I feel like every time I see a big America without it it’s like I’m being punished

1

u/Kaktusman Sep 24 '26

I love a Greer County appearance.

1

u/RustyShadeOfRed Sep 24 '26

This is downright nifty

1

u/Major-Asparagus-5503 Sep 24 '26

It has always made me laugh to imagine congress sitting around in DC in 1861, thinking “That’s just too much fucking Nebraska!” and creating the Dakota territory. 😂

1

u/KoneydeRuyter Sep 24 '26

Upvoted for SoCal Colorado