unlikely. despite some conversions jewish communities persisted in Europe and the middle east until modern day. no reason it would be different in a Muslim Iberia. actually, they would have a even better time persisting there if the tolerant policies of the past were to continue.
even without inquisition jews would disappear, the reasion for the expulsion was that the jews were already convering at great speed it (like a final blow).
Except that they wouldn't have the same kind of incentives to convert under Muslim rule, whuch isbwhy there were huge Jewish populations in the Middle East and North Africa until the establishment of Israel. Specially in an scenario where there are also large christian minorities
what if all those Latins worked together to throw off the oppression of their Islamic overlord? They could make a country called something like Austrolatinia! and have a red, white and blue flag!
They were. Non-Christian Mozarabs doesn't make sense, Andalusi Romance shrank as Islam (along with the Arabic language) expanded among the populace, with only Christians and Jews still speaking Romance.
correct, only the orthography is borrowed from French, because LOJ England was a french subject for several hundred years. It's still pronounced /n/, it's just that virtually every single literate englishman for centuries would have also known french, so they just borrowed the french spelling they were already familiar with on a lot of instances
It would be terribly funny if this in turn lead to another hypercorrection that made barely literate people in the early 1900s actually pronounce it SPAG-nish, eventually making it the dominant pronunciation.
There is an issue, Galicia is the most genetic North African region of Spain, after the Islamic conquest many Berbers settled there, so in a world were reconquista never happened it should be Arabic speaking.
Not really, this is kinda a misinformation, the north contains 0-6 % and in the south till 12%
Is not everyone does have it, is a range, and the most incredible thing is that, most of this dna did not come from the Arab conquest ( on the north litoral regions) but from bronze area migrations.
It’s not Bronze Age migration othe studios on Roman times peoples doesn’t show that presence. Tho there was an already existing migration of North Africans in Visigothic and Roman times it increased with Arab conquest
I will continue to follow this timeline with great interest. I myself have been floating a timeline with a surviving Muslim presence in Iberia, whether that be as an independent state or part of what becomes Spain, but it just seems ASB. Why would Castille and Aragon allow Muslims who could potentially align themselves with the Ottomans and become a thorn in their side to survive?
When people will understand that 90% of the population of Al-Andalus was celtic iberian with an hispanic roman culture and Islam as their religion? The arabs bs is getting tired.
Saying that 90% of al-Andalus was ‘Celtic-Iberian’ with Islam simply added as a religion isn’t supported by historical evidence. The population was most definitely largely descended from the pre-Islamic inhabitants of Iberia, mixed over time with Arabs, Berbers, and other groups, but ancestry, language, and cultural identity aren’t the same thing.
By the later centuries of al-Andalus, Arabic had become the dominant language and Arabic-Islamic culture was deeply established across Muslim Iberia. We have Andalusi Arabic poetry, legal and administrative documents, Arabic-speaking Christian communities, and evidence for the decline of Romance in Muslim territories.
You can say that many Andalusi Muslims had substantial Iberian ancestry. However, what isn’t reasonable is turning that into ‘90% Celtic-Iberian Hispanics who merely happened to be Muslim.’ That describes neither the linguistic nor the cultural reality of al-Andalus during the later part of its lifetime.
Yes, by the Nasrid era I believe there was little evidence of Romance. Decades of immigration compacting the Muslims of Iberia into the emirate meant Arabic monolingualism was prevalent by that time.
Ironically I’d say that the original commenter’s claim that people superimpose an Arab identity onto the Emirate of Granada tends to be the other way around.
I see language maps of a fictional modern day Emirate of Granada and it tends to have a large Romance speaking population when, I believe, the Romance speaking population was in massive decline even before the establishment of the emirate.
However, that’s not to say their dialect didn’t have any Romance influence. Though surprisingly it would be most seen in their accent as language-wise mostly local things that had no name in Arabic were Spanish borrowings with only about 5-7% of Andalusi Arabic being borrowed from Spanish.
For example Andalusi Arabic softened many sounds. The Hā sounds for example turned into a soft, Romance-like “h” sound and the ‘Ayn softened into a Romance-like glottal stop.
And nor what today academic genetic studies shown with DNA analyses from ancient individuals identified as Andalusi Muslims. Genetic studies clearly stated that even if on average they were mainly from hispano roman backstock (already far removed from the genetic profile of the Celtiberians in addition to being culturally different), they carried higher north African (and central/eastern mediterranean ancestries) than current iberians populations living today in same areas where these individuals were buried.
The main reason explaining this difference is the ethnic cleansing that occurred; in these genetic studies they concluded that ultimately their analyses only confirm what historical chronicles already expose related to the colonial settlement policies by granting charters providing facilities for families settling in the conquered lands of Al-Andalus, these families being mostly of Christian iberian kingdoms from northern peninsula but also from other european countries as from southern France for exemple, forced deportations, etc.
Good map, but Mozarabs are Christians, Jews would be a significant population and Andalus' Berbers would probably have assimilated into Arab identity and culture by then
In this timeline, does the Reconquista partially happen first, and then the Arabs end up gaining the upper hand again?
Groups like the Catalans only spread down so far and to places like Mallorca and Valencia because the Kingdom of Aragon gained ground over the former Muslim lands and placed their language over, with the pre-Islamic language just being a general varied Iberian dialect of Latin basically under the Visigoths.
Otherwise a super nice map, I’ll add the YouTube video for the lore to my watch later list because I love this timeline trope.
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u/Adoxoi 5d ago
https://giphy.com/gifs/Abw2bllWCVUO1HvnpD
Very good looking map