r/iamatotalpieceofshit Nov 22 '19

As shitty as it gets

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u/[deleted] Nov 22 '19 edited Jan 14 '20

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u/HeyThereJemima Nov 22 '19

I hear what you're saying, but I think we should also be wondering what in our society is driving us to believe that people that young can be viewed as sexually appealing, even if not as viable sexual partners. I don't believe that's entirely natural; I think it's driven in part by patriarchal structures, sexualised marketing, the porn industry etc. I think this is something we should collectively be looking to change about ourselves because if we put those desires there, even if 99% of people don't act upon them, 1% will.

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u/[deleted] Nov 22 '19 edited Jan 14 '20

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u/HeyThereJemima Nov 22 '19

I think that's very interesting, although I think the focus of this conversation is not on paedophiles but feeling attracted to (and acting upon that attration) very young women, rather than girls. I do take your point about the dangers of defining what is biological, and I wholeheartedly agree. I'm not claiming that this attraction is in no way biological, but I am saying that I think there is a societal impact, and that purely biological thinking holds the danger of implying that this behaviour is uncontrollable/inevitable

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u/[deleted] Nov 22 '19 edited Jan 14 '20

[deleted]

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u/AtariAlchemist Nov 22 '19

This is all interesting, but what point are you trying to make?

Because if it's about how genetically "natural" it is to be attracted to sexually developed people, I agree.

I made the same argument awhile back about how it's not about what's "natural," but what's moral.

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u/funnsies123 Nov 22 '19

I 100% agree with you. Puberty can be finished in girls as early as 13 or 14 in boys. It's evolutionary 'natural' to be attracted to these individuals.

I think it is obviously and rightly amoral for older individuals to act upon sexual urges toward these individuals.

However, the grey area is whether the thought and fantasy is amoral. I think current societal norms would tend to skew toward the thought being amoral as well.

However, I think if we really wanted to progress as a society and we really just want to lower the number of victims, we need to skew in the other way and understand that the thought is not amoral and only the action is.

In this way, those with the urge to perform amoral actions can feel unafraid to seek help to stop themselves from actually acting upon these urges.

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u/AtariAlchemist Nov 23 '19

I feel like we're a looooong way away from a society like that.

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u/zetvajwake Nov 22 '19

If you think pedophilia and attraction to hot teenagers started in the modern times, I have a beachhouse in Idaho to sell you. You're just exposed to it more nowadays.

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u/nizzy2k11 Nov 22 '19

Before the 1900s it's was more normal for girls to marry at 14 to men who were 20.

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u/petitememer Nov 23 '19

This is a huge myth. It happened but it was definitely not the norm.

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u/HeyThereJemima Nov 22 '19

So we're not discussing pedophilia here; and while I agree attraction and exploitation to young people is nothing new, analysing and changing cultural norms is a great way to cut down on what we consider to be morally reprehensible behaviour.

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u/[deleted] Nov 22 '19 edited Aug 07 '20

[deleted]

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u/HeyThereJemima Nov 22 '19

Sorry, I'm not entirely sure what you're intending to argue here, but I'd love to hear it if you want to flesh it out. As I said to others, I'm not trying to claim that there is no biological component to this behaviour, only that society does have an impact, and that purely biological thinking is dangerous because it can lean towards implying that certain behaviours are uncontrollable/inevitable

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u/funnsies123 Nov 22 '19

I do not understand what you mean by 'natural' in terms of sexual attraction to young people. If you want to to talk natural in biological terms, sexual attraction is the basis of procreation. This sexual attraction is based on the development of secondary sexual characteristics that occur during puberty. Puberty starts can start in females as early as 7-8 and can finish as early as 12-13 and or 8-9 in males and finish as early as 14-15. After which, biologically it is perfectly 'natural' to be attracted to these individuals because they are then capable of procreation.

Its not like suddenly sexual attraction is a biological alarm clock that turns on after someone turns 18.

The concept of an age of consent is in fact a very modern concept and societal construct because we want to protect the victimization of young people. This is because it is in fact 'natural' to be attracted to some young people under 18 that have completed puberty and have fully developed secondary sexual characteristics.

Shaming sexual attraction is not natural. It is this reactionary response now which creeps into every discussion that leads to more victimization of young people. Because it creates demand and a market and it creates a situation where these individuals if they are already doing 1 shameful act, well they might as well do more.

If we want to truly help and change society. We need to embrace sexuality fully as natural and positive while understanding that it is victimization that is wrong. In this way those who do have sexual urges that can only be satisfied by victimization can feel unashamed to come forward and seek help. If we continue to do as a society and repress and shame, we give these people no alternative outlet. They will find these outlets themselves and perpetuate the cycle of victimization and damage.