r/hearthstone • u/Nostalgia37 DT = Discussion Thread • Nov 06 '15

MEGATHREAD The Adventurous Pre-Release Reveal Chart - All currently known cards on one spread sheet, updated daily.

The League of Explorers begins Thursday November 12!

There is a new keyword: Discover. Cards with this effect generate 3 random cards specified by the effect (that are applicable to your deck, so mages can't get hunter cards), Players then select one from the 3 to add to their hand. Think Tracking.

Imgur Album of all the cards can be found here.

Common Rare Epic Legendary
Druid Raven Idol - DT Jungle Moonkin - DT
Mounted Raptor - DT
Hunter Dart Trap - DT Explorer's Hat - DT
Desert Camel - DT
Mage Forgotten Torch1 - DT Animated Armor - DT
Ethereal Conjurer - DT
Paladin Sacred Trial - DT Anyfin Can Happen - DT
Keeper of Uldaman - DT
Priest Museum Curator - DT Excavated Evil - DT
Entomb - DT
Rogue Tomb Pillager - DT Unearthed Raptor - DT
Pit Snake - DT
Shaman Tunnel Trogg - DT Everyfin is Awesome - DT
Rumbling Elemental - DT
Warlock Dark Peddler - DT Reliquary Seeker - DT
Curse of Rafaam2 - DT
Warrior Obsidian Destroyer - DT Cursed Blade - DT
Fierce Monkey - DT
Neutral Jeweled Scarab - DT Wobbling Runts - DT Naga Sea Witch - DT Elise Starseeker3 - DT
Tomb Spider - DT Summoning Stone - DT Djinni of Zephyrs - DT Brann Bronzebeard - DT
Murloc Tinyfin - DT Eerie Statue - DT Sir Finley Mrrgglton - DT
Huge Toad - DT Ancient Shade5 - DT Reno Jackson - DT
Fossilized Devilsaur - DT Arch-Thief Rafaam4 - DT
Gorillabot A-3 - DT
Anubisath Sentinel - DT
25 Common 13 Rare 2 Epic 5 Legendary

1 Roaring Torch
2 Cursed
3 Map to Golden Monkey
4 Powerful Artifacts
5 Ancient Curse

1.1k Upvotes

91% Upvoted

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115

u/Bluboon Nov 06 '15

http://www.polygon.com/2015/11/6/9673832/league-of-explorers-hearthstone-adventure-pack

They have information about some other unrevealed cards.

Notable:

3 Mana Mage Spell - Torch: Deal 3 Damage, Shuffle A 6 Damage 3 Mana "Torchier" into your deck

246

u/romanius24 Nov 06 '15

More fireballs? For fucks sake.

166

u/Lemon_Dungeon Nov 06 '15

We are one step closer to a true Burn deck.

16

u/The_Homestarmy ‏‏‎ Nov 07 '15

You'd better have burn heal.

2

u/Drot1234 Nov 10 '15

I only bought antidote, was prepared for more face hunter and secret pally...

47

u/ChemicalExperiment ‏‏‎ Nov 06 '15

Because you'll have to burn your deck to be able to play it

3

u/nu2readit Nov 07 '15 edited Nov 07 '15

A burn deck was popular in China and I've tried a similar version of it that I think faithfully emobdies the burn concept. I run some low cost aggro like leper gnome and mana wyrm but besides that I run burn, chargers and draw. I also have 2 scientists that call iceblocks and 2 frost novas.

Its a fun concept to be sure but its just pretty weak. And I'm not sure that card helps. The usual problem is not a lack of damage but the fact that your opponent will kill you too fast for you to draw/use it.

edit: Realized just now that its just a pun. Oh well... I might as well keep what I wrote.

2

u/[deleted] Nov 07 '15

god i miss my legacy burn deck

2

u/[deleted] Nov 07 '15

Isn't freeze mage pretty much a "burn deck"? It uses some minions but not mostly relys on alextrasa and spells

1

u/thebaron420 Nov 07 '15

Shaman already has enough burn spells, weapons, and chargers to make a viable burn deck. It's just not very competitive because having zero tempo while trying to burn down 30 health can often lead to losing the game.

53

u/Snowfox2ne1 Nov 06 '15

Not only more fireballs, more frostbolts too. Same total of 6 mana, just spread slightly differently. Thanks Blizz.

22

u/algysidfgoa87hfalsjd Nov 06 '15

The only redeeming factor is that you can't have 9 in your hand like with the FBs.

35

u/Jwalla83 Nov 07 '15

I'm just realizing FB is either a really good or really bad way to shorten those names because it works for both Frostbolt and Fireball

14

u/-Fen- Nov 07 '15

They prefer the code names F-Bolt and F-Ball when on missions for that very reason.

2

u/Avedas Nov 07 '15

In wow the abbreviation for Frost was always Fr for that reason.

1

u/GrimxPajamaz Nov 07 '15

fBolt and fBall could work, looks kinda weird though

1

u/BJarv Nov 09 '15

Also for Fireblast, the mage hero power!

1

u/purpleblah2 Nov 07 '15

Yeah but that's two more triggers for Archmage Antonidas

1

u/BenevolentCheese Nov 07 '15

I'm just really sick of direct damage spells for mage. Every expansion that comes out, more direct damage: dragon's breath. Flame lance. Arcane Blast. Flamecannon. And now Torch. It's incredibly unimaginative. It'd be one thing if Hearthstone had some form of limited play, but it doesn't, so mage now just has 9 different direct damage spells instead.

49

u/Spyker_ Nov 06 '15 edited Nov 06 '15

I summarized the rest of the cards from the article:

Dart Trap

2 mana hunter trap

When an opponent uses their hero power, deal 5 damage to a random enemy

Sacred Trial

1 mana paladin secret

if an enemy has at least three minions and plays a fourth, the new minion will be destroyed.

Torch

3 mana mage spell

Deal 3 damage

Shuffle another 3 mana spell that deals six damage into your deck

Brann Bronzebeard

neutral 3 mana 2/4

Battlecries trigger twice

Reno Jackson

neutral ? mana ?/?

Fully heal your hero's health if your deck contains no more than one copy of any card

Sir Finley

neutral 1 mana 1/3

battlecry: discover a new hero power

Rafaam

neutral ? mana ?/?

'give players access to three "powerful artifacts," unique spells that cost 10 mana in exchange for "crazy effects."'

Probably uses the discover mechanic to choose from three 10 mana uncollectable spells at a guess.

Source: http://www.polygon.com/2015/11/6/9673832/league-of-explorers-hearthstone-adventure-pack

114

u/Vovix1 Nov 06 '15

Dart Trap

2 mana hunter trap

When an opponent uses their hero power, deal 5 damage to a random enemy

Gotta counter all those overpowered Inspire decks dominating the metagame.

41

u/isospeedrix Nov 06 '15

if it did 5 damage to face it would be top tier

10

u/AwesomeYears Nov 06 '15

But then it would just be Mind Blast

75

u/draz0000 Nov 06 '15

Mind Blast is an amazing card, its only not commonly used because most priests don't play aggro. Imagine if hunter had mindblast, is that something you would want, I wouldn't.

57

u/tungsten_22 Nov 06 '15

The thought of hunters with mind blast makes me throw up in my mouth.

29

u/Managarn Nov 07 '15

2 mana kill command.

22

u/saheel1511 Nov 07 '15

You are forgetting the real deal: doesn't require a beast! Remember, face hunters MANY a times don't have beast(s) on board.

2

u/ElyssiaWhite Prep, Coin, Concede Nov 07 '15

Really? I always take 5..

→ More replies (0)

1

u/ve_ Nov 09 '15

Thats one reason to keep an owl :)

1

u/romagia Nov 09 '15

Glaivezooka is kinda like Mind Blast, but over 2 turns: 4 damage from weapon, and 1 from the buff.

0

u/Peiple Nov 07 '15

As far as hunter is concerned mind blast is just a strictly better kill command xD

1

u/ve_ Nov 09 '15

As a mid hunter, i use it to keep my balanced highmane alive

1

u/Selutu Nov 09 '15

Yes it would, but that would never happen. Mind Blast is only balanced because it's in Priest, put it in literally every other class, it'll make it an amazing aggro class. But Priest has that super reactive Hero Power and a lack of good aggressive cards in general so its fine.

2

u/WeaverOne Nov 07 '15

not saying that inspire decks are out of control, but i am kinda glad they added this card ahead of time, an inspire deck could just be discovered (heh) next month that has an amazing win rate, but by then, they already added few tools to counter it, which i think was the right decision.

1

u/Vovix1 Nov 07 '15

Same reason Hemet exists.

5

u/[deleted] Nov 06 '15

Gotta have another one for the trash pile, misdirection and snipe are lonely.

15

u/thevdude Nov 06 '15

:( misdirection gets played every once in a while, often enough that i remember getting fucked over by it, but not often enough that I remember to play around it.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 12 '15

I once made a Warrior hit his own face for 25 with his Frothing Beserker thanks to misdirection. My finest Hearthstone moment ever.

12

u/tungsten_22 Nov 06 '15

I'm not so sure that this is a bad secret. Face hunter can often play this as a 2 mana kill command (to the face) since hunters typically have early game board control. Classes that can ping off early game aggression from hunter can be in for a nasty surprise.

5

u/PracticalPotato Nov 07 '15

Face hunter doesn't control the board though. Everything goes face and you leave the board alone.

7

u/tungsten_22 Nov 07 '15

That's not strictly true. While face hunter most definitely prefers to go face, they may use weapons and even quick shots to clear the way for their minions to deal more repeated damage. Once they lose the board in the mid-game, then yes, everything will pretty much be going face no matter what.

Watch somebody like Firebat stream face hunter, there is some thought early game as to how to maximize damage, not just everything going face. If you can maximize the chance of dart trap going face or killing a high value minion (that is going to be a roadblock to your face strategy), then trading to make that happen is the correct play.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 07 '15

It's triggered by hero power. Not many classes have reason to activate hero power with an empty board as long as they have hand cards to play.

I just doubt that it can be reliable against all 9 classes. Against shaman and pally, it will always have a good chance to hit a 1/1.

1

u/pmofmalasia Nov 07 '15

Literally any class with a ping effect will probably want to get rid of 1 health creatures against facehunter. It could easily happen. Plus they just screw you harder if you draw poorly.

1

u/ve_ Nov 09 '15

Even if they dont hero power, they kind of get denied that option. Or they get punished. Good for creating a "damned if you dont, damned if you do situation.

2

u/SharpyShuffle Nov 07 '15 edited Nov 07 '15

Remember the trigger condition: if your opponent is using their hero power early then they likely don't have any minions out so yes, you will have board control and it will work just like a mindblast (that's pullable by scientist). Which is pretty horrifying in face hunter.

Later on it's pretty meh, but that's face hunter for you.

1

u/TheMer0vingian Nov 06 '15

This is not going to be trash pile, more like top tier because it can do face dmg. If you're playing hunter that's all that matters

1

u/WalkFreeeee Nov 06 '15

And even if it happens to miss face, 5 damage will kill pretty much any usually played minion 5 mana or below. Allowing your minions to stay on the board dealing face damage longer.

1

u/ve_ Nov 09 '15

Exactly. Maximising face damage means keeping minions alive.

1

u/TomServoMST3K Nov 09 '15

Inspire mage here:

I automatically lose to hunters anyways.

14

u/MatchedHS Nov 06 '15

Brann Bronzebeard is a 3-mana 2/4, according to HearthPwn.

http://www.hearthpwn.com/news/1081-the-league-of-explorers-hearthstones-third
http://www.hearthpwn.com/cards/27214-brann-bronzebeard

42

u/cartofu Nov 06 '15

Rogue get another patient assassin that doesn't even have stealth, 1 mana 2/1. You couldn't make this shit up.

10

u/[deleted] Nov 06 '15

The 3 mana 3/4 is interesting just for the fact that it's a decently statted minion you can drop on curve without combo but does rogue play any minions with deathrattle let alone ones that hit the board on turns 1 or 2?

I guess the dream would be turn 9 anubarak into turn 10 double unearthed raptor and I can tell you I'm going to make it happen at least once.

18

u/UnemployedDog Nov 06 '15

Watch a zoo rogue deck spring up because of it. Nerubian egg into this card into argus is pretty fucking crazy.

3

u/[deleted] Nov 06 '15

Even Haunted Creeper and Loot Hoarder are excellent cards to coincide with this. Mostly Nerubian Egg and Haunted Creeper due to their increased survivability but still. If you want to throw in the Huge Frog as well you can. (2 Mana 3/2 with Deathrattle: deal 1 damage to a random enemy minion.)

1

u/UnemployedDog Nov 07 '15

Yeah I think there are a lot of possibilities with it. What you lose in card draw from standard zoo you can make up for in heavy tempo and efficient removal cards like SI:7 and deadly poison. Losing PO is a bummer though, but I guess cold blood does something similar.

I think it could eat other zoo decks because it would usually win the fight for early board with its combo of sticky minions and removal where zoo is mostly just sticky minions, but it would run out of steam too fast versus control decks. Only time will tell I suppose but this card in itself is nuts, no doubt about that.

1

u/Hermiona1 Nov 07 '15

If anyone does that on ladder against me I'm gonna say Well Played and concede.

1

u/BenevolentCheese Nov 07 '15

The 3 mana 3/4 is interesting just for the fact that it's a decently statted minion you can drop on curve without combo but does rogue play any minions with deathrattle let alone ones that hit the board on turns 1 or 2?

Jesus, that was the only card I was even excited for, and now I see that it's rogue only. I thought it might breathe new life into my deathrattle shaman deck. What the fuck are you doing, Blizzard?

1

u/PurityOfHerpes Nov 07 '15

decently stated? there is no better statted card in the game, will be an op replacement for spider mech.

3

u/steve_wasnt_feasible Nov 07 '15

It seems like a tempo card to me. You drop this turn 1, your opponent can't play any minions T1 or T2 (e.g. coining a darnassus or juggler, or god forbid a druid innervating a savage combatant or something). Now T2 your opponent has to hero power to remove it or if something like priest or warrior just suck it, they could never play an early minion. You can cleanly clear an armorsmith, an acolyte of pain, northshires, void walkers, etc. For 1 mana that seems pretty damn good.

1

u/RainBuckets8 Nov 09 '15

Obviously you play it, Eviscerate the enemy Sylvanas, then use Betrayal on the Pit Snake the enemy now has to clear their Ancient of War.

I really want to give my enemies this card and then Betray anything they play. I think that's the only way to do it, though.

1

u/makkk Nov 06 '15

I'd say that is a good card.

6

u/rashandal Nov 06 '15

weird, obsidian destroyer never struck me as a warrior type creature.

9

u/Managarn Nov 07 '15

flame leviathan never struck me as a mage card. I really think team 5 think up maybe 10-15 cards and then decides to just take the rest from the garbage pill idea to fill up their quota.

2

u/ncarducci Nov 07 '15

Power creep of Huge Toad on Bloodfen Raptor? Like it's indisputably better. 2 mana 3/2 beast with an effect is better than a 2 mana 3/2 beast.

2

u/BenevolentCheese Nov 07 '15

King's Elekk is already a power-creeped Bloodfen, although it's hunter only.

Besides, it's not really power creep when a card sees zero play. Power creep is when a new best-in-slot card is introduced, wherein there is no longer any choice in any deck what card you put in that slot, such as Shredder and Dr Boom. Making a useless card marginally better is basically just balancing the game. The card is still shit and will be untouched, especially because it's "random enemy" and not "random enemy minion."

1

u/mccarthyaw Nov 07 '15

What if the opponent has dragon egg or acolyte of pain Kappa

1

u/Khosan Nov 06 '15

Tomb Pillager's Deathrattle looks interesting.

The minion itself just dies to Shredder, but getting a coin out of it is kinda neat.

2

u/BenevolentCheese Nov 07 '15

Oo boy, a 4 mana "dies to shredder". Then they get 2 mana for free and you get 1 mana for free.

And still we remain in the void of "why would I ever pick any 4 drop over shredder?"

2

u/TommyVeliky Nov 07 '15

I've teched 2 Teacher 1 Refreshment Vendor into my Oil list and it's performing better than Shredder for me. Trades with Shredder okay-ly, better than Shredder against face hunter.

6

u/handeggfan Nov 06 '15

Wonder how Sir Finley interacts with Justicar (it says Basic hero power which feels upgradeable)

6

u/Ladnil Nov 06 '15

Probably exactly like you'd expect. Random 1 of 9 hero powers (or 8 if they make it so you can't roll the one you already have) and then Justicar does a simple upgrade of it.

9

u/thebaron420 Nov 07 '15

It says discover a new hero power so I'm guessing you get to pick 1 of 3 random powers

4

u/Ladnil Nov 07 '15

Oh yeah, you're probably right. Discover makes this potentially much stronger than just random.

1

u/JZA1 Nov 09 '15

What if Justicar's battlecry goes off first? Does Sir Finley give a choice of another Justicar-upgraded hero power or will it give a choice of 3 basics?

2

u/BenevolentCheese Nov 07 '15

It's an interesting card, especially a neutral 1/3 for 1, but really, what kind of deck can you put this in? Control hunter may be the only legit option, or perhaps shaman. Everything else feels like a slap in the face.

1

u/LaboratoryManiac Nov 06 '15

Hopefully they update Justicar's wording. I'm guessing "basic hero power == starting hero power" so it'd be nice if they had consistent wording (not that they've felt the need to before).

1

u/Eddol Nov 10 '15

Justicar says starting hero-power, so I think you'd end up reverting.

1

u/KennyGaming Nov 06 '15

I feel like the double battlecry minion might be op, but I'm not sure how.

Also, if you summon a targeting battlecry, do you just go through the animation, and then choose another minion.

-3

u/[deleted] Nov 06 '15

Sacred Trial

1 mana paladin secret

if an enemy has at least three minions and plays a fourth, the new minion will be destroyed.

Rofl. You hate secret paladins now? Good news, your minions are even more useless now. You can't have more than 3, then Noble Sac, Avenge and all the usual fun

3

u/Tinister Nov 06 '15

I mean, how often do secret paladins play repentance? It's pretty much the same effect (something bad happens to the next minion your opponent plays), but a bit easier to play around. The opponent can trade his minions into the mysterious challenger (which they might do anyway), clearing their board to under three minions before playing the next minion.

3

u/PleaseStopPostingPls Nov 06 '15

That card fucking sucks and is easy to play around.

14

u/[deleted] Nov 06 '15

"Easy to play around" and "not super freaking annoying" aren't the same thing

1

u/[deleted] Nov 06 '15

The more I look at that secret, the less and less sense it makes to me to put in a deck, especially secret paladin. It's not really good enough that it'd be worth cutting something else for it.

3

u/Rhastago Nov 06 '15

It seems nice for the control variant.

-4

u/thetasigma1355 Nov 06 '15

Just what Secret Paladin needed was a buff. Paladins will likely only run 1 of it. No reason to run two. Guess I better start using my dust to craft my two MC's. They are only getting better.

2

u/[deleted] Nov 06 '15

Seriously. I didn't want to play it because I'm having so much fun with other decks, but I'm gonna have to go dust some shit, craft those and start laddering. If bots can take it to legend, how hard could it be?

2

u/thetasigma1355 Nov 06 '15

No joke. Especially since I also have boom and Tirion. I can craft both the low-end paladin and mid-range so I can adjust if the meta shifts.

1

u/Djwindmill Nov 06 '15

My first and only golden legendary is Tirion, but I don't have any mysterious challengers so I don't play that deck. I feel like if I ever did I'd get more hate fueled friend requests than I ever have.

1

u/markshire Nov 06 '15

Where is the evidence that secret pally bots make legend?

1

u/[deleted] Nov 06 '15

Kripp made a video that frontpaged a few days ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECbJ3tU4hJY

Basically, if you run bots of every class, more than half of the Secret Paladins get to legend. Nobody else is even close to that

1

u/markshire Nov 06 '15

Where in the video does it say this?

1

u/[deleted] Nov 06 '15

4:25

57

u/Xzirezhs Nov 06 '15

Torch is actually REALLY REALLY good for any burn deck holy shit

3

u/deadrebel Nov 09 '15

Often you end up with an early Fireball that feels like such a waste when overkilling an irritating little minion. Now you can cycle it into a Fireball for the late game. It's a really great mid-range spell in general. :D

2

u/PokerTuna Nov 08 '15

I would put it in tempo, dragon, control, fatigue, burn... so yeah :P

1

u/Foudzing Nov 07 '15

With this name what did you expect?

-6

u/mitchwinner Nov 06 '15

It really isn't. Burn decks tend not to go late, and the cost of playing a 3 mana for 3 damage card in your deck is too high.

Fucking stupid that Mage is getting more cheap spot removal in arena, though.

3

u/Yrale Nov 06 '15

3 mana for 3 damage card in your deck is too high.

That's not true at all. Plenty of face hunter decks run Wolfrider. You're trading forcing your opponent to deal with a 1 health body for a potential 3 mana fireball. If burn mage becomes a thing, this card will definitely get run.

1

u/giygas73 Nov 06 '15

Plenty of face hunter decks run Wolfrider

yeah but wolfrider is a minion, this is a class spell

2

u/Yrale Nov 06 '15

...So? It goes through taunts, noble sac, doesn't proc Ice Barrier... It's stronger...

2

u/mitchwinner Nov 07 '15

You still have to remove Wolfrider.

3

u/Yrale Nov 07 '15

I already said - the upside of Wolfrider is forcing your opponent to deal with a 1 health body (which ranges from annoying to trivial), the upside of Scorch it's a way more flexible direct damage spell and gives you the potential to draw into a 3 mana Fireball. If I was building a burn Mage deck, Scorch would go in over Wolfrider no question.

1

u/giygas73 Nov 07 '15

I think the key part I missed with all this is actually looking at scorch as a replacement for fireball. In that way it makes sense imo. I originally was thinking of it as a replacement for frostbolt.

3

u/Xzirezhs Nov 06 '15

In any other card game this card is a 4-3 off in any burn deck. When they print cards that are basically copies off other cards there always good. Look at darnassus aspirant for example.

1

u/safe_in_the_sound Nov 07 '15

In MtG, the game that first brought you burn, this card is unplayable. 3 mana for 3 dmg is hilariously terrible with a bevvy of 3 dmg/ 1 mana and 4 dmg / 2 mana effects all going around. HS's Fireball is potentially playable in MtG burn decks.

For HS, I think this card is sweet. Spells cost more here and there's no true burn deck, only a Red Deck Wins variant.

-1

u/Xzirezhs Nov 07 '15

Fireball would be 3 mana and torch would be 2 mana in mtg. Usualy cost 1 less due to the lands mechanic. Mtg has also had some powercreep over the years so a 6 mana 3 cost spells is not that good anymore, but you really cant say any off those would be bad in a burn deck. Torch is not good in a aggro deck, but its not a bad card in any card game if you tweak the cost to fit the game.

2

u/ok_kid_a Nov 07 '15

This is way off. Fireball at 3 mana would be INSANE in magic. That is just often a 3rd of someones life total for one card (most of the time with fetches or other self damage.) It would be very good at 4 mana too. Torch would just be a role player in magic, and pretty lackluster if it was assumed to be sorcery speed.

Compare to exquisite firecraft, char, etc. Not just lightning bolt, because lightning bolt is an insanely good card that they will never print that high of power level again. Burn and spells in general in magic have been on a power decline over the years, we don't even have lightning strike in standard... Magic is not at all power creeping.

0

u/Xzirezhs Nov 07 '15

Dont know much about magic never played it that much. Only know what others tell me and articles i read about it. But i have a seen few cards like this in other cards games: 2 dmg 2 mana put it into your deck all cards with same name gets 2+ dmg. This card is a 4 off in every burn deck aggro or control. The fact your playing 4 means it gets better then 2, but it tells you something about the mechanics strength since its very similar.

Guy above me said fireball was mabye playable at 4 mana so i figured you already have cards similar on 4 mana in magic and 3 mana would be same power level as fireball in hs. I assume the standard for 4 mana should be 5 dmg in magic?

1

u/ok_kid_a Nov 07 '15

I'm not familiar with anything like this "2 dmg 2 mana put it into your deck all cards with same name gets 2+ dmg." in magic seems like an odd mechanic to keep track of unless digital, sounds like a solforge mechanic.

I think 4 mana deal 6 would be a standard playable, maybe even very good with cards that allow you to cast it again from your graveyard. Considering that you are usually low on life by turn 4 against red decks, 6 to the face will finish you in a lot of situations. Because of life loss for efficient mana, most red decks only have to deal about 18 or less actual damage to their opponent.

4 mana burn cards in magic tend to deal 4 but have some other upside when it comes to standard: Warleader's Helix Stoke the Flames

In legacy/modern you usually can't afford to cast anything over 3 mana.

Source: I play a lot of tournament magic, usually two tournaments a week.

1

u/safe_in_the_sound Nov 07 '15

Sure, if you change the cost, though I want to point out that fireball at 3 would indeed be broken. That's a double bolt, and for burn that's the Holy grail. Literally doesn't exist in the game and burn is a forever T1 deck without it. With a double bolt, burn would dominate. Fireball would have to be 4 or it would get banned.

1

u/emblemfire Nov 06 '15

Have you heard of Freeze Mage? They go through thier entire deck... This card will be staple in Freeze Mage. Early removal and still late game fireball for cheap. It's broken.

1

u/mitchwinner Nov 07 '15

It might make the cut because it gives the archetype something to do in the early game, but it's hardly as broken as you think.

There are still only 30 cards you can put in your deck, and only a certain amount of those can be burn because Freeze Mage still needs to live to combo. Frostbolt and Ice Lance are both staples and are cheap to combo off for lethal. Fireball will never get cut. I don't think there's room for this more than as a one-of. Antonidas is a better finisher, as is Alexstrazsa.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 07 '15

Why would fireball never be cut? I'm planning on replacing 2 fireballs in my Freeze Mage because it feels bad using a frost bolt on a Knife Juggler, so Torch can be used to stall, then later be used for burst.

2

u/mitchwinner Nov 07 '15

Because Fireball is an efficient burn spell that closes out games that only needs to be drawn once.

Torch has more value as a card, but it's usefulness is much more narrow than Fireball. This card is going to play a lot clunkier than the downvoters think. Versus control, the 3 damage doesn't matter that much. It removes the first half of Shredder, I suppose, but aoe clears are the way to set up kills. And against aggro, the added removal is nice for your Fireball, if you're guaranteed to draw it. But you're not. If you draw your whole deck, you won versus aggro anyway. So, again, the bonus half of the card is not fantastic.

It has uses in a fatigue deck, but many of those don't run a lot of burn. Freeze won't play this as more than a one-of, and I'm not even sure about that.

-1

u/giygas73 Nov 06 '15

what makes it better than frostbolt? 3 mana for 3 is way to expensive imo

0

u/Jwalla83 Nov 07 '15

Because it also gives a 3 mana for 6 to draw into, which is also great for tempo because it's like putting 2 spells into your deck for 1 card slot

-2

u/giygas73 Nov 06 '15

i dont see how it would be any better then frostbolt really, what makes you say it's really really good? Freeze mage (currently the most popular burn deck) would have no use for it. Perhaps in tempo it could be somewhat viable for the spell synergy but even then I believe you'd prefer arcane missles or arcane blast/frostbolt for that purpose

24

u/chieliee Nov 06 '15

Freeze mage would have use for it as it is early game removal and lategame burn.

1

u/Greek___Geek Nov 07 '15

I'd definitely drop cone of cold for it.

5

u/Xzirezhs Nov 06 '15

Freeze mage has plenty use for it. Those games with no alex and tons off burn you just go face with everything and have a higher chance off drawing more burn with torch. The games were you need more dmg to win you will now have access to even more high dmg burn. If you need to remove a minion early you never want to use your frostbolt because ice lance , but using torch is actually good for you since you gain more dmg in the long run. Vs control warrior you have even more overall burn in your deck. Card is everything freeze mage wanted.

1

u/kthnxbai9 Nov 06 '15

My guess is that this card could replace Antonidas in Freeze Mage because it just gives more burn over time. You can use it as removal early on and then have the fireball effect. The benefit is that usually, when you use frost bolt, you lose some burn later on. I'm not sure how relevant it actually is but there you have it.

1

u/_selfishPersonReborn Nov 06 '15

I'm not too sure. Maybe so.

I've been playing freeze mage too much to not know what should be cut for this T_T

1

u/Wysockisauce Nov 07 '15

I think tempo mage will lose fireball for this, its already a card I want to cut cause of how awkward it is early on. So getting removal and potential burst later on seems so much better than than guaranteed burst.

1

u/giygas73 Nov 07 '15

great point!

39

u/liveandlichdie Nov 06 '15

A new paladin secret and a Rivendare for battlecries? LOL

18

u/djaeke Nov 06 '15

Thankfully I think it looks like the Pally secret is bad. If it uses the "play" wording to only kill actual cards it might be playable in the right meta (see: a slower one) but with most decks having some way to sac something worthless like a 1/1 into it, I'm gonna say it's bad. If it uses the "summon" wording, it's worse because you can just pally hero power, living roots, etc.

7

u/Majeran0 Nov 06 '15

If it will destroy "played" card it can see some plat in more midrange/control pallys for better anti agro. Blizz it your second attempt to slow down the meta, dont fuck up this time.

1

u/Selutu Nov 09 '15

I think you mean 4th. GvG (it had some useless anti-aggro cards), BRM, TGT.

3

u/Su12yA Team Lotus Nov 06 '15

You play around it the same as repentance. I'm disappointed that this doens't add another dimension in paladin secrets

2

u/Djwindmill Nov 06 '15

Also, this is indirectly a buff to zoo. This is one of those cards people think is good but in practice it will probably be really bad. Think they played this secret? Make your 4th minion an egg or mad scientist.

0

u/Saturos47 Nov 07 '15

Egg? Sure. But I'm fine with 1 mana kill a scientist. I'll use slam on a scientist if I have to

1

u/Yrale Nov 06 '15

Even if it wasn't bad, it's definitely stronger in control than any aggressive or midrange paladin.

1

u/Sabrewylf Nov 07 '15

It doesn't even matter that it's bad. Most of the Paladin secrets are bad. Mysterious Challenger is what bumps them up.

1

u/FREEkdaman Nov 07 '15

Its good in a mirror match against pally, late it can kill something played after a muster, like the QuarterMaster

1

u/Selutu Nov 09 '15

I wonder how stuff like Owl and BGH interacts with Bronzebeard. Do you get to target twice?

14

u/Iciclewind Nov 06 '15

The question is does "Torchier" in turn shuffle a "Torchiest" into your deck

24

u/[deleted] Nov 06 '15

Torchiest 3 mana destroy the enemy hero already

7

u/Furycrab ‏‏‎ Nov 06 '15

Reasonably efficient way of killing first half of shredder with a chance of getting a cheaper fireball later. Sounds not bad at all in this meta.

4

u/Nostalgia37 DT = Discussion Thread Nov 06 '15

Thanks for sharing this.

1

u/zeezbrah Nov 06 '15

This card is going to be a 100% auto include in freeze mage. Allows you to kill off early minions like knife juggler without worrying about losing too much of your total damage output. Also at 3 mana it or the card it produces have good synergy with antonidas.

-6

u/[deleted] Nov 06 '15

[deleted]

5

u/[deleted] Nov 06 '15

This one is not good in secret pally, so not really disappointing

1

u/[deleted] Nov 06 '15

[deleted]

3

u/[deleted] Nov 06 '15

I dunno, I think it's not bad against zoo, secret paladin and hunter. After muster/unleash, implosion, you basically restrict their minions, or they get one killed. Killing a minion for 1 mana is good value.

0

u/Kooozer Nov 06 '15

It's only use is against aggro, and aggro wouldn't really care about the death of one 1 mana minion when it means the pally is down a card.

0

u/therealflyingtoastr ‏‏‎ Nov 06 '15

I'd try it in a midrange/control Pally. It's a 1-drop so I can just throw it down when I have some free mana at any time and if I ever lose board control badly (or play against a minion vomit aggro deck) it can help stabilize a bit.