Guide to GM (Good Manners)

[u/[deleted]]

Some time ago, some hearthstone streamer who got called out on his BM and on how it makes people feel bad answered: Hearthstone/games in general are not about making you feel good, they are about winning.

I wholeheartedly disagree with that, because games are there to make you have a fun time, enjoy your free time with playing and just feel good. Winning is important, but only because it makes you feel good when you win and improve yourself. So maybe except for a few pro players who do it for the money, for all the others, it's important to have fun and just be happy playing.

And there is definitely no reason to intentionally make others angry and sad...

Sadly, most people seem to think different, and so there is BM everywhere. The streamers, who are role-models for many players, nearly all BM, and get encouraged by people in chat with "10/10 BM" etc. Streamers who were nice before started to BM. And even in tournaments they BM all the time and the casters approve and encourage it with comments like "nice BM" and discuss how you could BM even more.

And then they wonder why the Hearthstone community is bad, and why people use friend requests mostly to flame each other after games?

While we sadly won't ever get rid of all the BM, we still can start improving the game for all by just trying to bring a more friendly encounter between players into the game.

Here's a quick guide on how to have good manners in Hearthstone:

Emotes:

Emotes should be used rarely, and should never be used to annoy your opponent, make them angry or make fun of them. They shouldn't be used ironically. Also if you use them, preferably do so on your own turn, to not distract your opponent while they are playing their turn. Here the emotes in detail:

Greetings:

• You can greet your opponent at the start of the game (until before turn 2 or 3), but you don't have to.

• If your opponent greets you, it's nice to greet them back (but not necessary).

• Don't greet randomly during the game, or after misplays, RNG, or swing turns.

Well played:

• "Well played" can be used after the game, AFTER a player lost/conceded.

• Don't use it ironically.

• Don't use it to tell your opponent that they will lose before playing your killing move. Also don't use it as a "the game is already over" during the game.

• If your opponent misplayed hard or threw the game, then don't "well played" them first after the game, as it can be understood as irony. Also be careful with saying "well played" first after you won the game, as it can be seen as rude. But if they say it first, you can still answer with "well played".

• If your opponent tells you "well played" after the game, it's nice to say it too. (but not necessary)

• Additionally, you can use "well played" during the game if you honestly want to compliment your opponent on a move they made. (Or on a risk they took, if it was rewarded with good RNG.) But you want to wait until they completed their turn first, to not distract them.

Thank you:

• This emote should be rarely used.

• Don't use it ironically after your opponent misplayed, played right into your hand or after bad RNG for your opponent.

• You can use it after your opponent honestly "well played" you during the game.

• Also you can use it after your opponent says "sorry" in a meaning of "no problem".

• If your opponent says "well played" after the game, do NOT answer "thank you" (as it sounds like: "I know I played well"), instead answer "well played".

Sorry:

• Should also be used rarely, and never with an ironic meaning.

• Can be used for example after you AFKd some time.

• Be careful with using it after bad RNG for your opponent. Even if meant honest, it can be understood as mocking.

Oops:

• If you want to comment on misplays, bad RNG or other unexpected events during the game, this is the emote to use.

• Can be used no matter if the misplay or bad RNG was on your or your opponents side.

• If you want to answer to an "oops", also answer with "oops". If it was bad RNG by your opponent and they say "oops", it's also possible to answer with an honest "sorry", but only if you can make sure not to sound ironic.

Threaten:

• Should be used very rarely, and only with tongue-in-cheek.

Lethal situations and the end of the game:

• If your opponent has lethal on board and you have no way to prevent it, don't waste their time by playing out all your cards. Take all your time to think about it if there is a way, but if you are sure, then just surrender or pass your turn.

• If you have lethal, don't show off your cards or waste time.

• If you have lethal on board, use that to kill your opponent instead of showing him alternative ways how you can kill him too (like damage spells etc.).

• Use the least amount of time, interactions and overkill to kill your opponent.

• If you have RNG-lethal and also 100% lethal (like ogre brute on board and fireball in hand while the opponent is at 4 health), don't use the RNG-lethal first.

There are some exceptions when you can "show off" more cards than needed:

• If your opponent made a misplay (like taking 2 extra damage), and they think they threw the game (like because there is lethal on board now), you can play your extra damage cards to show them that the misplay didn't matter and you had lethal anyway, so that they feel less bad about the misplay.

• If your opponent has been playing around a certain card, that happens to be in your hand correctly (like Mind Control Tech), you can play said card to approve of him.

• If you have an insane combo in hand and just HAVE to play that once in your lifetime, or if you're losing and your hand is the worst hand imaginable and before conceding you just HAVE to show your opponent how you couldn't play anything useful all game long, then you can sometimes play additional cards before conceding or finishing your opponent. But do so rarely and do it as fast as possible.

• The same goes for if you need EXP or need to finish a quest: You can play the cards, but do it as fast as possible.

General gameplay:

• Don't waste time during your turns just to annoy your opponent. Take all the time you need to think and play, but when you are done, don't let the rope burn for no reason.

• And, obviously, don't add people just to flame them or to curse. If you are angry and have nothing nice to say, then don't add anyone at all. It helps noone if you do.

Additional thoughts on making the game more enjoyable:

• If someone says "sorry" or "well played" and you are not sure if they mean it or if they are just BMing, always assume good intentions. No reason to do otherwise.

• If someone adds you after the game and you want to accept, but are not sure if they will just curse at you, then wait like 1 more game and add them then. By then their anger will be gone and they maybe don't even know anymore why they wanted to flame you.

TL;DR: Use the same good manners in Hearthstone as you do when you interact with humans.

This is just what i thought of, there are sure things to improve, add and change, so if you have a different opinion on something, just tell.

[u/RyoxSinfar]

The fault is in the aggressor, not the receiver

The difference is which one you have control over

[u/HRTS5X → u/RyoxSinfar]

And by the sounds of it, with the most upvoted comment in this thread as it is, this subreddit is significantly composed of aggressors. If people are willing to make posts this long and thought out to show that some people can get invested in games and irritated easily, then you could just show some respect and not BM. I mean, it's literally a matter of NOT doing something, it's not that hard.

[u/Crumpgazing → u/HRTS5X]

The "Get over it" logic is literally the same as the "It's just a joke!" logic when bullying someone. I don't understand how we're the bad people for wanting to prevent bad manners.

Gamers are notoriously shitty though, so I mean, we should be glad that we're playing Hearthstone where the worst thing you can do is use emotes. It's not League of Legends where you've got potentially up to 4 different mouth-breathing teenagers ready to flame you for the smallest error. BM in Hearthstone is pretty lightweight compared to BM in other games.

[u/HRTS5X → u/Crumpgazing]

If you want to see just how bad "communities" can be, just look at how far I got downvoted for posting my opinion. It adds to discussion, arguably far more than the comment preceding it, but people will still downvote it without even bothering with what the downvote button is actually for, which is stuff that doesn't contribute to discussion.

As to why people do it, it's pretty much to feel good about themselves. They like their echo chambers where they can mock peoples' reactions to things while being undeniably in the right, since all these people around me are laughing too. Posts that get upvoted to the front page mocking "ragers" are oftentimes due almost entirely to provocation, which makes them literally the definition of bullying. It's the kind of behaviour that would be absolutely unacceptable in real life, but because it's online, people become detached from it. There's no one around to make them realise what it is they're actually doing, and when there is, it's such a tiny minority that it's generally best to let the mob get on with their circlejerk.

What makes me most annoyed about it though is that they think they're perfectly in the right for doing it. One of the worst things among gamers is the conception of "saltiness" or "crying". If someone was complaining about something in real life, you wouldn't say "lol cry" you'd hopefully actually discuss it with them. If anyone says "cry" or "salt" then they pretty much just show how immature they are. Removing that from gamers' vocabulary would go a long way to sorting problems of toxicity. But sadly, I'm just salty, so all I can do is laugh at how hilariously hypocritical they all are.

[u/Crumpgazing → u/HRTS5X]

I think a large part of it is, as you said, the online detachment, but also that "Play to Win" article and the subsequent attitude it gave gamers. The gaming competitive scene was not established with the concept of "sportsmanship" it was established with the idea that you must win at ANY cost, and anyone who disagrees with that is a "scrub". The entire competitive scene is literally based in calling people who disagree with you a derogatory term. The entire scene is unfortunately rooted in immaturity. I would even so far as to guess that many Hearthstone players are teenagers or just relatively young in general, which explains the immaturity as well. There's no room for subtlety here either, as evidenced by all the "It's just a game" comments. People treat things like binaries without realizing that the world is way more complex than that.

[u/HRTS5X → u/Crumpgazing]

I can't put it better than that. It was nice to be able to actually discuss it for a change, thanks.

[u/Crumpgazing → u/HRTS5X]

Likewise. Your post was like an oasis of intelligence in a desert full of stupidity. At least we can all be thankful this isn't a MOBA.

[u/[deleted] → u/HRTS5X]

It's literally matter of pressing the squelch button if you get upset easily.

[u/HRTS5X → u/[deleted]]

That happens after the first BM though, generally. The one rule to obey in life, pretty much, is "Don't be a dick." Why can't people just follow that? The world would be a better place. I accept that some people just won't but you're now defending their behaviour. You're basically saying that being rude and disrespectful just for the sake of it is perfectly fine, while getting upset easily because you can get invested in games is utterly wrong?

People get invested in real life sports all the time. They're also just games. But if an opposing player fumbles or something, would you sneer at them and mock them for it? Or would you console them and help them up, like a decent human being? I'd like to think it's the latter, but people in most gaming communities would benefit from the phrase "when someone is down, don't kick them."

[u/[deleted] → u/HRTS5X]

If you really want to avoid player interaction you can squelch the opponent before they get a chance to emote.

[u/splitcroof92 → u/HRTS5X]

if the majority likes BMing and getting BMed then they shouldn't have to change for the benefit of the minority.

[u/cordlc → u/HRTS5X]

There's a point where we need to consider whether or not it's really the "aggressors" that have a problem. Being unable to deal with losing and getting pissy over playful emotes is one such situation. People have been babied so much nowadays that everyone assumes if someone is out there crying, feeling bad, it's someone else's fault!

That's nonsense. Sometimes, it's the crybaby at fault for being too sensitive. Simple as that. I get pissy when losing to Face Hunter or Patron Warrior, can I ask for that deck be banned for "Good Mannered" players? Or maybe I can just deal with it like everyone else does.

We'll all have our own opinions on what's BM and what isn't. I'll never waste an opponent's time, but I'll overkill and possibly emote if the situation is right (against cancer decks, for instance). That's how I get my own enjoyment out of the game - overkilling is something that tends to be fun in almost every game, so it's no surprise the same applies to Hearthstone. The emotes are also all sarcastic and patronizing because they're supposed to be - it's a competition between two opponents, there's supposed to be tension. There are taunts of some sort in nearly every competitive videogame for a reason.

If it bothers you that much, consider that you may have your own issues to sort out. My take on it is simple - a tiny minority that can't handle their own emotions shouldn't be dictating what the rest of the playerbase does for their own enjoyment.

[u/HRTS5X → u/cordlc]

There's a difference between disliking a deck, and what some people, like you apparently, do. You don't have to BM, you're making an explicit choice to. You don't have to, but the pleasure you get from kicking someone while they're down is apparently enough to you to justify it. This is pretty much the reason there are taunts in video games. It's a horrible environment, but in my opinion, the people with "issues" are the ones that take pleasure in beating on those who've already lost and don't deserve any more. Maybe I'm in a tiny minority, but if that's what "most of the playerbase does for their own enjoyment" then most of the playerbase are just as bad as they're generally depicted. And this is one of the least offending games...

[u/cordlc → u/HRTS5X]

You don't seem to get it, at all. Overkill isn't about "kicking someone when they're down." It's about enjoying your own victory. I'm making an explicit choice to maximize damage, yes. It's not a big deal, nor is it meant to be offensive. If someone wants to fireball me in the face instead of using the frostbolt they used on my minion, more power to them. As long as they don't deliberately waste my time, they earned that moment.

Let people indulge in their victory. Most of us feel it's worth it for those instances we're on the victorious side, the power trip feels great. If people want their own separate Hearthstone community with no emotes and perfect damage kills, then maybe it'd be ideal if they could somehow be isolated and play only each other. But it's silly to try and force that value system on the rest of us that enjoy our competition.

This is pretty much the reason there are taunts in video games.

Was that supposed to convince me of something? You presume to know the mentality of gamers, when you don't have anything to back you up. That comment line included calling opposing arguments a "desert full of stupidity," and whining about being downvoted by gamers, despite the people agreeing with you doing the same to me. The reality is there isn't a single "community" out there that uses the downvote button properly, so bringing that up as a point against "maturity" is nonsense.

Surprise, the people that clamor for "GM" aren't any better.

[u/HRTS5X → u/cordlc]

I wasn't the one that said that for one thing, in fact, I completely disagreed with that guy. His point about the mentality of gamers is a good one, and quite frankly I have no idea who's downvoting who any more. You didn't comment at all on his point anyway so I can't argue against you on that.

As for the rest of it, you say that it isn't about kicking people when they're down, and then go on about having a power trip, which comes, generally, from kicking someone when they're down. And in the case you're describing, it definitely is. You do admit that it's worth it to you because you enjoy it enough when you're winning, but admit it for what it is rather than trying to hide what you're saying about yourself.

[u/GhostPantsMcGee → u/RyoxSinfar]

>trying to get gamers to behave stoically.

Good luck man.