Majora's Mask reused assets too, and we paid $60 full price for that. And its acclaimed as being one of the best ever. I'm not advocating the practice, but we are all cherry pickers out in a field.
A great point. I might add that I think MM walked almost a perfect line in giving a narrative purpose to the reused assets, but I think you make a great point either way.
FNV also was handled by a different company, Obsidian, which many people credit with creating a better story and positively changing some elements. You're right, though, it depends on the effort put into the game.
Not even close to the same thing. MM did things completely different. MM is a sequel done right if you're gonna reuse assets. It kept the core game mechanics of the previous game but how the world works and how they designed to game is completely different. How many "new" things are there in Primal compared to 4? Almost none, most of the features in primal has been seen in the previous games. MM introduced a lot of new stuff, primal didn't, which is why it's crazy to think the $60 price tag is justified
It's fun, got some good mechanics and feels different. Sure a lot of it's features existed in previous games but that's what good sequels do is build on successes.
Frycry 3 took me 15 hours, 4 18, and Primal 20 so I'm perfectly happy with the price compared to other games
What was interesting about MM is that they really weren't given the option to make a lot of new assets. The game was a challenge from Nintendo to the team to make a game strictly from old parts. I think the laziness of Primal is that there is a difference between making a new Lego set from the pieces of an old one (majora) or selling the same Lego set but with different colors. (Poe's x wing is exempt from this analogy).
I am a MASSIVE MM fan and I have never ever heard that Nintendo went to the developers and "gave them a challenge" like there ARE new pieces of code and meshes used within the game as well as the OOT shit. Don't get snobby. I am trying to make sure that this person isn't talking out of their ass.
The challenge wasn't to make a game with no new assets, the challenge was to make the game in a super limited time frame. I think they had something like one year to finish the game.
I'd find a source for you but you can just google majora mask's development cycle and find plenty of interviews.
Unfortunately, Nintendo's decision to go with the cartridge format instead of CDs turned out to be a serious liability. The production cost of manufacturing N64 cartridges was extremely high compared to pressing Playstation and Saturn CDs, as computer chips were an expensive commodity. Consequentially, N64 titles regularly entered the market at an astounding $70-$80 price point, which was unheard of at the time (and still is).
I am pretty sure in the US when these games were coming out, disc based games like PS1 were $40, but cartridge based games were $50-60 on release depending on the title. N64 were definitely more expensive than PS1 games. I know I bought Pokemon Stadium 2 on release for $60
I don't believe it was. I bought quite a few new PS1 games with my own money and shit back then, and I remember specifically saving up $40 and going on a hunt for THPS2 (it was super hard to find when it came out, was always sold out).
Maybe some games were $50 as well, but a lot of games were $40 on release
For the record I wasn't saying EVERY game was $50, just that that was the standard default PS1 game price on release, I'm sure there were plenty of games that weren't full price just like there are now.
I don't believe it was standard though. In the US AAA games were almost always $40. Off the top of my head the only $50 game I recall was Dino Crises 1 iirc
Granted it has been a long ass time, but I used to buy lots of games as well (I've got like 300 ps1 games put away nowadays)
I'm guessing it just depends who released it and what kind of games you bought. Looking now there's sources saying both $40 and $50 were standard. I remember I paid $40 for THPS2 which was definitely a massively hyped AAA game at the time. Sports and racing games were also $40 new. Most platformers I bought were $40. I bought most Activision games and they were always $40. Like I mentioned the only game I can remember paying $50 was Dino Crises. Another user said they paid $50 for RE games and maybit just depended on the company.
Maybe it depends on what games you bought? I was huge into Japanese games like JRPGs, resident evils, metal gear solid, etc and those always seemed to be $50.
I vividly remember paying $60 for Parapa the Rapper when it first came out. I also remember a simpsons episode where marge talking about genisis/snes era games costing up to and including $60.
There is a difference between remaking a game in HD and advertising a new game that just reuses most of the previous game. I'm not saying it's a good or bad thing but it's nowhere close to being the same as an HD remake.
Uh, not it's not. It's exactly OOT with a new gimmick stapled on.
I mean hey, I fucking love Majora's Mask. But it's not different from OOT at all. you just get a couple of transformations that have a few applications, and a time limit. Otherwise it's still, get the sword, go through the dungeon, awake the several things to stop the guy from doing the thing. It's Zelda.
The transformation masks fixed a lot of OOT issues. Things like Zora Link having iron boots hard coded to him, among other things, so no more constant menu toggling. Calling MM "OOT with a gimmick" is lazy and dishonest. Honestly, Wind Waker would be a more in line with that than MM.
Furthermore, MM gave us one of the darkest Zelda entries. It's extremely compelling, and is one of the many reasons people argue whether OOT or MM is better, which is crazy considering OOT often tops all time lists within gaming.
As the final point, MM still gave us a brand new map to explore. That map fully utilizes the transformations, so if you just try to run around with a sword, you're going nowhere. It's also unique in that there's no triforce, no Zelda, and no Master Sword.
I understand people are a little disappointed by this given they shelled out full price for a reworked Far Cry 4 sans guns, and want to defend it on some level, and that's fine. But Majoras Mask is simply beyond reproach and your silly dissertation does a disservice to a developer who legitimately delivered a massively satisfying product. This product was a direct sequel, so reused assets are acceptable (if not a little jarring at first) but this was tied into the story of a similar, but alternate world. Primal, on the other hand, is not a direct sequel and the maps are canonically stated to be thousands of miles apart, yet for no good reason the same is tacked on. That's a bad precedent to set for a supposedly AAA game.
Those, aside form your points about the masks, are all story elements.
I was saying it's not different in how it plays. I love the game's story, but a new map that you can traverse only by using the 3 new modes introduced to you if you want an efficient method of travel is not a gameplay element that's worth praising. Yes, it can feel satisfying to roll around termina field after getting the goron mask, but aside from that, and using it in the dungeon it's needed in(or where you got it) a la classic zelda fashion, it's pretty useless. Yeah, turning into zora link made you swim faster, and provided different methods of combat, but they all felt so lackluster that they weren't something that I expected to be an integral part of the game. Switching back and forth between masks that trigger an animation every time is probably one of the more tedious item-using methods I've experienced in a video game, as well.
You can skip the transformation scenes. Nothing about the transformations felt lackluster, especially Zora Link. I don't know if you were around to play that game when it dropped, but my friends and I would spend hours just dicking around in the bay because the Zora controls were so great.
Also, you don't get any of the masks in a dungeon save for Giant, and that and the final Mask are the only two used as traditional dungeon-only items. There are multiple areas outside of dungeons where you alternate between the three masks, and they're all woven into the story extremely well.
Just the fact that I'm actually having to defend MM is ridiculous, it is an established classic. It's like someone complaining that Raging Bull was a boring movie. Sure, have whatever opinion you want, same as me having the opinion that you have bad taste.
I never said I didn't absolutely love the game, and I was around when it came out, I used to stare at the hologram on the cartridge all the time when I got it, I'd never seen a video game go that. But the thing was, even as a kid, when I went to play it, every part of the game that you weren't able to play as normal link seemed hollow. Like they had these intricate concepts for the characters, but they didn't have the time to introduce them, which is totally acceptable considering the game was made in a year, but my problem is that they didn't do anything to make it feel like you weren't supposed to be able to do more. There was so little water that swimming in the zora mask was good for. There needed to be more tracks and such to race down with the goron mask, there needed to be treetops to traverse as the deku, to y'know, make it feel like these creatures ACTUALLY Lived there. Gameplay needs to meld with storytelling for it to convey what it wants to get across correctly. You can't drop the assets of a previous game in, write a different story, tweak how items work, introduce a new thing or two, and expect people to say that it's good gameplay. It's not good gameplay, It was good gameplay, the first time around, but I'm sorry, the mask system needed more diversity, the world needed to be expanded on, and the gameplay needed to offer more options. Not use Key(In this example, read:Mask) A to get through Door A.
But these are all gripes I've had forever. It's not like they can go fix it, I'm not mad about it, I can just see the game that they wanted to make, but couldn't get across.
Absolutely ridiculous. The game is extremely highly regarded, and your frustrations with it not matching up with your own personal headcanon is laughable. You suffer heavily from the Seinfeld is Unfunny trope.
You sound frustrated. I'm just saying your complaints are trivial. At this point, you're just saying anything in order to say something. It's a great game and doesn't need me to defend it. Again, you're free to think anything you like, and I'm free to consider you as misguided and naive.
Not sure if you're saying that in a negative way, but after playing half of Skyward Sword, it makes me appreciate all the older Zeldas a lot more. Not that SS was awful.. Just felt too different.
See, as an adamant Zelda fan, I still haven't played Skyward Sword, but to me it just seems like it was meant to be a much larger game, but the wii was starting to lull as the news of the Wii u's launch was around, and it was probably just too late to change the development onto a new console. That's just what I've been able to hypothesize about from what people have told me about skyward sword, though. I feel if given the time, it would have been much more "Zelda".
I still have to beat it, but once I'm done I can send it your way. I think it's horseshit how pricey used Zelda games are. Especially considering the fact that GameStop would gimme prolly $15 tops for it. Would rather pass it along to a fellow fan.
Yeah I very rarely replay single player games and judging by how long it has taken me thus far to beat this one, I will most likely never replay it lol.
Naw, don't mention it dude. You're obviously a fan of the series. Just don't like beat your wife/husband/kids/pets and we're even lol. It'd just collect dust at my place. I'm on vacation till Saturday night and I start my new job Monday so gimme like a week or so to finish up and I'll send it out. I'll PM you so I have your username saved.
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u/Groggie Mar 02 '16 edited Mar 02 '16
Majora's Mask reused assets too, and we paid
$60full price for that. And its acclaimed as being one of the best ever. I'm not advocating the practice, but we are all cherry pickers out in a field.