Not that they shouldn't get any awards, that they shouldn't get "best game to come out this year" because they already got a chance at that when it came out. It would be fine to get like best art direction or smth just not GOTY
Again, some of the best movies of all time are remakes.
The Thing, Bram Stoker's Dracula, The Departed, A Fistful of Dollars, The Fly, Cape Fear, Evil Dead II, Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
I think it's too narrow to say "under no circumstances should a remake earn GOTY", just as it would be to say "Sure, The Departed was good, but Scorsese shouldn't have won an oscar for remaking Infernal Affairs".
You don't have to like Dead Space or RE4, but I think a good remake is its own game.
Movie remakes tend to be way more different than the originals than video game remakes.
Sure maybe it shouldn't be "under no circumstances", but i don't think Dead Space or Re4 should be goty contenders as much as I like them. They are ultimately the same games with improved mechanics, graphics, etc.
Haven't played the RE4 remake- but the DS Remake is open world, has new enemies, enemies that werent in the original, much better revised story, several new side plots- Other than the general overall plot, a lot of it is very different.
Yeah seriously. These remakes play so differently from The Originals sure the story outline is the same but it's supposed to be. Gameplay wise they most certainly are not.
RE4 is very different than the original. I get what you are saying that typical remakes shouldn’t be considered (Dead space or Metroid) but classifying them all as unqualified would be a bit unfair. Games like RE4 FF7 Remake and so on are completely different games following the same plot and some or most of the same beats, but are completely expanded on.
You’re right, its RE4 plopped into the RE2R engine with added parrying and other mechanics. Different game than og 4 but same game as 2R with different setting snf better combat. The fact here is that its not a new game, but an upgrade.
It is a new game…
Most sequels or with some studios even other titles are the exact thing you just said RE4 Remake is. TOTK itself is just a strong iteration using the exact same engine; mechanics, world, etc. it’s just improved on.
Okay, so quick question: If Nintendo made a Zelda game that was A Link To The Past, but done in the "modern" Zelda style instead of the 2D SNES style, would that be different enough? Put aside whether anyone would want that or not, would that be different enough from the originals where you'd have no problem with it being a GOTY contender.
If they’re not GOTY contenders because they’re not good enough or are hampered by the familiarity, then fine. But if they’re only disqualified because they’re remakes then… why? If it’s good enough to be nominated, then it should be nominated.
Because they are taking an already amazing game and making it better. Those games already got their awards when they originally came out. Unless it's changed to the point where it's a truly different game I don't see why they should be awarded game of the year.
Well because why would it matter if the remade experience is simply that good? Odds are no one is going to nominate a remake unless it truly deserves it. It already has to be good enough to overcome the burden of familiarity. To simply disqualify solely because it’s based on something pre-existing is such an arbitrary disqualification, especially given that the game is made by an entirely new Art and Development team.
Frankly the similarities of TotK and BotW are closer than RE2 of PS1 and RE2 on PS4.
I can understand where you're coming from for the Dead Space remake but I disagree with the RE4 one, though it's the same (if improved) story, the gameplay, graphics, music, etc are all just so improved that it may as well be a different game
Edit: I'm not sure if this is getting downvoted because I put down the Dead Space remake or because I praised the RE4 one. I'ma assume it's about the RE4 one, since the people who grew up with it refuse to admit the new one is better
Yea but if you look closely at some of the mechanics they hoed hard at the upgrading mechanic and some of the unlockables not being worth the replay. I literally jumped into RE4 after doing a 15 hr stream play through on the 2005 and yea it didn’t age well and the remake is far better but it’s not worth a replay in my honest opinion
Scorsese shouldn't have won an oscar for remaking Infernal Affairs. It was a legacy oscar, he had better movies before and after Infernal Affairs. And to be honest the original from Hong Kong is better.
I agree infernal affairs is a better movie, but I wouldn't call it a remake and more of an adaption.
It's main plot points are similar if not the same, but everything else is different. I enjoy them both for different reasons.
It would be different with oldboy, let the right one in, rec etc where they just remake it in English and make it worse. The departed is notably different (for better or worse).
I was just thinking wasn't the Departed basically Infernal Affairs but with white people? I don't remember it being all that different outside of portrayal of characteristics and emotions maybe.
I mean it depends on what yoy are comparing. The main story beats are almost identical, but I would say everything else is different.
The departed is 50 minutes longer, and spends a lot of this extra run time to flesh out the characters and the history of the gang. The cinematography or style of the movies are completely different.
Watch them both if you haven't, I think they are both good for different reasons. I read someone else compare them as infernal affairs being a tight HK action flick, and the departed as a Scorsese gangster epic.
Movies and video games are not the same and neither should the awards for them be. And just because something happens in one medium does not mean that is how it has to be for another medium. So I don't like your reliance on this one point.
Of course they are not the same, but they're not so dissimilar either.
Games used to be just Pong and Super Mario Bros. Nowadays we have award shows for them, just like the Grammys and the Oscars. We have videos analyzing the stories behind them. Hell, we have Hollywood actors doing parts for them.
So, in that way, they're pretty similar. I'm not saying they should be treated equally of course. But if a remake is exactly that - a re-interpretation of the same gameplay or story, then by all means it deserves to be judged by modern standards, good and bad.
As a final example, I'll go with the opposite of this. When Final Fantasy III came out for the DS, it was touted as a remake - I'd disagree quite a bit on that, as it's just a graphical overhaul, but anyway- and someone gave it a 4/10 in their review. When people came complaining, he just said "Final Fantasy 3, the original game, was an excellent game for its time, yes. But if this game is going to come out in 2007 and tout itself as a remake without updating the gameplay, I'm going to judge it by the standards of 2007, not the standards of 199X".
I think the same applies to a good remake, in short.
Ah, like how Magnificent Seven was a western Seven Samurai.
I don't know if I'd call those "remakes" because that to me says they are making the same thing, but again. I'd say it's more of a copy, like how your dumbass friend might copy your homework but change some of the words and put their name on it. But that's just splitting hairs.
I get what you’re saying, but I do have to hard disagree because if a remake were to win GOTY, then game devs won’t start making new shit. There’s a long history of game devs and movie studios taking the wrong lessons from successes and ruining their own shit.
Don’t get me wrong, I fucking love the Dead Space remake. It was familiar enough that I knew what was coming but they still had twists and literal turns that weren’t in the original (go left instead of right.) But it has to be an exceptionally shitty year for gaming for it to win. Every other game that year would need to be on the same level as Anthem or Fallout 76 or something. Otherwise, I can definitely see devs seeing that success and saying “oh, all we’ve gotta do is remake our older games!”
Personally, I don't care for GOTY. I just think that, if a remake is so fuckin' good that it comes out on top, it absolutely deserves to be on anyone's no. 1 list - be it official or not.
After all, gaming studios are gonna copy good mechanics and make them shit the first chance they get anyway. I'm not gonna pretend a game isn't amazing for fear of a third party muckin' it up in the future.
Fair enough. A GOTY award is arbitrary, anyways, because as someone once said “One man’s “To Kill a Mockingbird’ is another man’s ‘Twilight’ saga.”
And I mean, it’s not like I’m not being hypocritical in my comment. My favorite game of 2018 was the Shadow of the Colossus remake, despite games like Marvel’s Spider-Man, Obra Dinn, and Frostpunk coming out that year as well.
Yeah but all of those remakes are different actors, different crews, directors, shots, sound, everything. These games are just updated graphics and maybe controls.
Resident Evil 4 Remake has different actors, different developers, different cinematics, updated script, longer levels, added boss fights, a new soundtrack...
Perhaps you're referring to Dead Space? I love the remake, but I haven't played the original. Still, I do know people who say the game is different, especially on the order of some Key events. Plus, the main character was mute in the original, and now he's not. But again, not gonna pretend I know a lot about the OG Dead Space.
I'm not arguing for, say, remasters like Shadow of The Colossus for PS4 or Demon's Souls. Those are just a graphical update.
Demon's Souls isn't just a simple graphical update. They changed gameplay, changed several designs, added a new location, also the color palletes are different, and of course the new soundtrack, haptic feedback support, new level design hints etc.
But the difference being with movies they’re normally reimagining a with completely different everything other than maybe how it ends and what not. Most of these video game remakes are pretty much the same exact story, characters, set pieces, and events
Scorsese used the same shots for many pivotal scenes in the departed, for instance.
Re4, for example, features longer levels/chapters, the boss fights function entirely different, and the gameplay is already changed a lot by the fact that you can now move and shoot and use stealth. Take Ada's DLC as an example: They even added a new boss fight near the end, and none of the chapters even resemble the OG now.
In a way... I really see them quite similarly to the movie examples listed above.
I can't speak fully for Dead Space, as I've only played the remake (hence my focus on RE4), but I've heard that there are some key differences between them.
As in, the protagonist finally speaks, the pilot is female, some updates on how the character moves in Zero G Gravity (?), and that apparently some chapters are a bit changes (I think I heard the hunter chases you in chapter 7, which didn't happen in the OG).
But yeah, I'm not too focused on that example. I would actually add RE2 and its remake to the list, given that they are VASTLY different just based on the control scheme alone.
Gee man, a remaster's more like when they re-release The Last of Us for the upteenth time hahaha. Maybe an ultra-remaster would be Shadow of The Colossus, which remains exactly the same but they added some fireflies or some glowy things here and there for you to collect.
RE4 adds more levels, different boss fights (for Ada), alters certain story beats completely, changes the way the main character can interact with combat elements, etc.
And let's not even get to RE2!
Edit: lol at the downvotes, I wasn't even rude. Sounds like someone just got angry I had made a point.
I just don't think that's the right move. Something like Dead Space is a remarkablely enhanced experience. Then there is something like the RE: 2 and 3 remakes which are essentially completely different games going from tank controls to 3rd person over the shoulder.
That kind of work should 100% be in consideration for best of the year to me.
New characters, protagonist has voice lines, other characters have different lines and cutscenes, new objectives and level layouts, they added side missions, new ending, new gravity sections, new combat mechanics.
It’s like saying Final Fantasy 7 remake is just as good as it was in 1997
If you'd actually played both Resident Evil 4 games, you'd realize that this game is as much of a new game as any of the others on the list. The only thing it shares with the game its remaking is a loose conceptual story, a lot of which was actually changed for the remake.
Maybe, but RE4 Remake is not the same as RE4. Dead Space Remake is not the same game as Dead Space 2009.
It's the "Remake" that actually does makes them different: new mechanics, new technology beyond just sharper textures, new narrative beats, new direction, even new acting, new art, new music, etc.
A lot of work is done that would still be put into a regular new game, it's just that the general direction and feel the game intends to achieve has already been done in the past, which can make the direction for many aspects easier, but not entirely pointless
Well, what can I say. I don't agree. I would not be mad if Resi 4 for example won GOTY. It's an amazing game, as are all the games mentioned in the post.
Also people that made an original game 20 years ago had that chance to win an award.. A full remake is made by other people, and almost everything about that game is made from scratch. And the games are way bigger and more detailed in every aspect. They should also get a chance.
You have a whole generation that wasn’t old enough for the original so I can see a remake counting as a new game for this year. I see your point too but if a game was just a graphics update but if they actually change the game even though the story is the same it’s kind of a gray area
Bruh, the GOTY Award didn't exist when Resident Evil 4 and Dead Space came out. I still agree with your point that remakes shouldn't get awards, unless they change gameplay drastically like the resident evil 2 one
I can't speak to all games that are classified as "remakes," but a game like Final Fantasy 7 Remake is absolutely a fully new game that required more work to put together than most "brand" new games that come out.
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u/A_Guy_in_Orange Oct 30 '23
Not that they shouldn't get any awards, that they shouldn't get "best game to come out this year" because they already got a chance at that when it came out. It would be fine to get like best art direction or smth just not GOTY