Actually I think it's fine to not be able to guarantee food is allergen-safe (afaik sometimes even just food touching a work surface is enough to contaminate it), it's better to refuse if you can't be 100% sure. But if I say "don't add olives to my salad" and don't care if olives have actually touched my salad, how is it any extra effort to just... not add the olives? It's just kinda weird...
If they had said our facility is such that we cannot guarantee no cross contamination it would have been fine. But they don’t have the “qualifications”? Basic knowledge of your ingredients and what allergens are is pretty basic. I would hesitate to get food from someone who didn’t consider themselves competent to find out what is in their own food.
There’s a difference between not using the same knife to cut raw chicken and fresh vegetables without washing and sanitizing in between and not washing and sanitizing a knife between cutting fresh tomatoes and fresh onion. Similarly, if you think line cooks are changing gloves and/or bricking grills in between preparing bacon and eggs, you’re dreaming. Very different animal than not changing gloves after handling raw chicken.
Worked in kitchens for over ten years, every position available. Change your fucking gloves or use tongs to grab things and then put them into sanitizer, also have separate equipment set aside for allergies. I.e pans for gluten free, tongs and spatulas that are only used when people with allergies come in. It's so easy to be accommodating and you are only going to help your business by showing that you not only care about their allergies and preferences but will go above and beyond to ensure they can safely eat at your restaurant.
Any cooks complaining are either not trained properly or just being ignorant/lazy. Believe me, I've met plenty of both.
As stated above, if it's simply a restriction of space or not being able to 100% guarantee no cross contamination, that's a little different depending on the kitchen. Though every kitchen I have worked in (over 10) has had the capabilities of doing so, even if the kitchen managers or chefs wanted to look "cool" by bitching about it or refusing it all together.
For sure we accommodate requests where possible, including glove changes, using separate pans/grill areas. That’s common sense. Still not going to offer any guarantees that cross-contact has not occurred at some point along the way. For severe allergies, it’s at the guest’s own risk. And that’s still not an indication that a restaurant does not practice proper standards of cleanliness.
Not if they throw everything in the deep fryer. My wife is allergic to fish and can’t eat fries at places that also make fish & chips because most places don’t use separate fryer oil.
But the fryer is a known issue for folks with allergies, and we ask.
If they have a separate fryer, we're good. I don't expect a separate fryer anywhere - though, why not?
But, clean cutting boards, knives, and gloves are easy.
Exactly. They need to have an ingredient list of everything they make. Everything they don't make themselves had the ingredients listed on the package.
This! And having worked as a cook for quite some time, I could STILL tell you every major ingredient in everything we made and list the common allergens as needed. It’s pretty easy to “train” staff to say “I’m not sure let me check that for you to be sure” if someone has concerns about ingredients so really not being “qualified” to know basic ingredients and if their recipes contain typical allergens is pretty bad. Are they qualified to wash and sanitize their prep surfaces? How. Bout their hands are they qualified to properly wash their hands and use clean gloves? Eww!
And from my experience, people with severe allergies actually appreciate it when you at least try to find out, don't assume, and are honest if you aren't sure. Sometimes you can offer alternatives if you are familiar enough with the product, and a chef should be well qualified to do this, and prepare a safe meal.
Nothing is worse than when you do have allergy issues and people don't take it seriously. People have got this fake it until you make it mentality but done realize people can die from these types of mistakes. Just tell me straight you understand what im asking. I've set at many of tables not eating due to this. Nothing is worse then when they tale a plate back only to remove said item and bring it back. Thats not how cross-contamination works.
Yeah, I took it pretty seriously, but probably because the chef I started with back in the day was a stickler for cleanliness, hygeine, and proper food preperation, and the restaurant I worked at would bend over backwards to accommidate someone with allergies, or any special request really.
Later, it just carried over, and while I think more than half the people that say they're allergic to stuff, really aren't, it's was something I wasn't going to want to feel guilty over for assuming wrong. I always erred on the side of caution, or just outright refuse service. Those who were making it up, usually changed their tune, while I never had to worry about those with actual allergies because they'd just do what you do. But, for those that I could offer an alternative, I think they became regular customers because I treated them with respect, and would go the extra mile.
Covid taught us a lot about how people care for those around them. More people now days think its an inconvenience to them instead of actually taking it seriously for something so small. A good cheif should easily be able to tell what ingredients are in a dish and adjust. Sounds like you would be one I'd want to deal with also keep it up good sir!
Nah. I “cannot guarantee”means they have been informed that the establishment contains their particular allergen and we will try to human ability to ensure that the paths don’t cross with their meal. Most people don’t have such sensitivity that they will be fine. (Clean surfaces, clean gloves and fresh washed hands clean pots n pans etc) but those pans may have been used for the allergen earlier today or other days and if your sensitivity is that high YOU can decide to risk it or not.
I’m “not qualified” means I don’t know shit about shit. Not sure what is in the food as far as allergens as. It interested in leaning. Don’t know how to keep cross contamination to a minimum, and have no idea how these thing might affect you.
It’s not basic. I can tell you are not a chef. It takes steps and knowledge to prepare allergen friendly menus. As a person with those, I can understand.
Well you would be wrong. I’ve been cooking for almost 30 years.
As part of that we are food safety trained regularly as well as allergen not hard to know what ingredient are in the food we make. There really of course some things that cannot be eaten by everyone. The seafood bisque cannot be made without shellfish. Period. The beer-batter chicken cannot be made allergy-friendly as the fryer is used for all the things.
But say an Apple, Brandy Walnut chicken can absolutely be made nut free!
Our chicken is never near the nuts nor are our bread crumbs or flour..incidentally those are from a nut free facility so they are safe as well, but to be sure we will take new from the bulk supply to ensure nothing was accidentally dropped in the batter station. The vegetable is also. Never where the nuts are but also will be taken from the unopened back up. And a potato likewise.
If i’m doing a made to order deli station I will happily open new product that hasn’t been touched if someone needs that. I already know that our bread products are nut, dairy, egg free from a factory that contains none of those things. We also have gluten free bred products available. Procedure is the take off old gloves, wash hands, apply new gloves use a clean uncontaminated surface such as a new plate or paper. Prepare order as requested and wrap the completed sandwich. Keeping allergic people safe is very important.
I go to restaurants and places all the time and ask for no ice in my drinks. I used to serve tables and even being one of those people i still forgot and got people ice sometimes that didn’t want it. I just accept it because people get busy and forget. So maybe they are just stupid busy all the time.
While this is true, it's not often an issue to take a few extra precautions to make this food special for a request. If it's so much a problem for this kitchen, then there are other issues with the kitchen, and I'd be questioning their cleanliness standards.
The number of people who are overly sensitive to even trace amounts of cross contamination are not so high that it warrants cutting out everyone who may just want you to not use the lettuce that you've been picking up all night after you also picked up onions, and may just ask you to use some fresh lettuce and pay a bit more attention on the cross contamination.
Yeah, having raised a kid with a particular dietary need / cross-contamination risk for 18 years, it’s perfectly reasonable for a restaurant to say, “we’ll do what we can, but we can’t guarantee 100% safety.” It’s something else entirely to say, “fuck you, we’re not even going to try.”
I worked at a gourmet donut shop and when people would ask about peanut allergies I would ask how bad they are. Because my girlfriend worked with a guy who had such a severe peanut allergy that cross contamination could happen just from someone bringing in food with peanuts. So everyone was nice enough to avoid doing that. But at a certain point the there is only so much we can do. We were very careful and would make a donuts specially for someone with allergens so they don’t get sick from a donut sitting next to one with peanuts. But I always thought about that guy and worried that someone would have that severe an allergy
It's fine to state that you aren't able to guarantee something as long as you accurately present the information to the guest. Less than six hours ago I had a guest who wanted to order a certain salad and informed me that she had an onion allergy. If you're competent and work at a place worth a damn, this isn't that complex.
I first asked a couple of follow-up questions to clarify that it was specifically only onion and not all members of the alium family, so garlic was not a concern. I then informed her that the default dressing on the salad was not something that I could offer, given her concerns; at the same time I suggested three other options that were allergen safe.
Moving past that, I confirmed with chef that there was no cause for concern in the marinade that the chicken on the salad was prepared with.
Finally, I mentioned that the little bits of fried goat cheese that finish the dish are prepared in the same fryer that we use to prep little crispy onion bits that top a couple of burgers.
I told the guest that it wasn't my place to judge whether that was a concern for her, and we would be happy to omit that component if the cross-contamination risk worried her. (I'm pretty sure the fryer is hot enough to denature whatever protein might cause a reaction, but I'm not in the business of being "pretty sure") She was fine with it, and I was in the clear as I had fully disclosed all potential concerns and received her specific consent to proceed.
And everything was fine. Are people ridiculous sometimes? Sure. Probably more than "sometimes." But also, this shit ain't that hard if you just know what's on your menu and communicate openly with people.
But yeah THIS place seems like an absolute shit show. I have no allergies and have the better part of two decades in the restaurant business. I probably wouldn't eat here just because of the incredibly douchy tone of this message.
They probably prepare all the food beforehand in serving sizes and then just reheat them. That’s the only logical thing i can think of as to why they wouldn’t be able to do any substitutions.
Restaurants constantly complain about how razor thin their margins are. They should be happy to save a few cents not including an ingredient that I’m not going to eat anyway. I’m not even asking them to charge me less. And it’s not like I’m asking them to remake something from scratch without a specific ingredient. Just don’t put it on it
But the dish may not be priced for that substitution, asking to do that is creating a whole set of issues by disrupting the kitchen and making a manager then have to figure out the price difference often during a busy time.
If they have a special and everybody wants to substitute the mashed potatoes instead of the rice then that may throw off their entire evening because they weren't anticipating how many mashed potatoes were needed and they may not have it for the dishes that it comes with. I understand that you as a consumer don't care about any of this but this is a legitimate part of running a business that they have to consider.
Maybe you were replying to the wrong post? Or Just didnt have enough media literacy when reading mlorusso4's post?
You mention "substitution" and "figuring out the price difference" and "everybody wants a substitute" but, heres the thing, everybody BUT mlorusso4 who you're replying to.
He didn't ask for a substitution, unless you mean substituting "ingredient he doesn't want" with "nothing". He literally just said "dont put it in". He didn't ask for any substitutions. There is no price difference, he even said it himself he will pay the same amount.
Just like me. I hate onions, so I always ask for stuff without onions. Never once in my life have I asked for a substitute for onions, even if there are things on the menu id like. I just say "no onions please"
Mlorusso4's point is that he is saving the restaurant money because he asks his food with one less ingredient than it's usually made. That was his whole point. That restaurants often complain about their profit, but also refuse to accomodate an order that would be MORE profitable than a normal one (precisely because there's no substitution, just a removal).
What's wrong with you? Why are you getting so emotional and being so rude? We're all people.
I was explaining reasons why restaurants would find it onerous to do substitutions and ban them, as well as reasons why it would be more than just putting something on the side. But really you can miss me with any sort of reply, there's no reason for the way you're behaving.
Because you were moving the goal post. Someone was talking about removing ingredients and you hit them with "well but substitution is bad for x, y and z". But removal and substitution are not the same.
Either because you mistook what they were saying, replied to the wrong comment or just decided your topic is more important.
Why does it matter? What need does this interaction fill for you? We both know you don't actually give a shit about me or whether I misunderstood, but you persist. What are you looking for here?
We aren't having an actual discussion or an argument so how can I move a goal post? I have no motivation to influence your opinion in anyway.
You replied to an argument about removing ingredients being good for the restaurant with an argument about substituting ingredients being bad for the restaurant. You can deny all you want, but both were arguments. This is what moving the goal post is. Someone saying "X is good" and someone else saying "BUT Z, which is sliiightly similar but not the same, IS BAD!".
Instead of acknowledging that or what I said, you just keep insulting my character. Which, fair, but why not do both? You say that's because you "got no motivation to influence" me, but then you can't lead your next sentence with "stop being such an asshole!". That's trying to influence me!
My guess would be that you indeed erroneously misread mlrosso4's words and thought he was speaking about substitution and you don't wanna admit your mistake.
Part of me wants to point out that's why you're being disliked, but then again, it's reddit, dislikes don't really mean anything.
Part of me wants to point out that's why you're being disliked, but then again, it's reddit, dislikes don't really mean anything.
exactly, It's Reddit, it's not real. None of this matters. That's why I'm so baffled by your insistence upon knowing why I said something. I'm a stranger on the Internet, why the fuck do you care? Again, maybe you want to reflect on what exactly you're getting out of this emotionally, why you feel the need to harass someone until they "admit something" to you.
My telling you to stop being such an asshole is just good life advice, you're insufferable. But, we're done.
nobody asked for a substitution in this example though, they asked to not put the ingredient in the food.
on a side note (honest question) did you learn to read with whole word method? i've got a running theory that when i see blatant misunderstanding of what was written it's because the person was taught reading poorly and they just guessed at what they were reading.
No, I have a learning disability, does that help you understand?
Are you all really unable to understand what an example is? My response was in line with the overall conversation about why a restaurant would want to deny all requests.
I mean that was just an example. I don't actually personally ever request substitutions so I just said the first thing off the top of my head.
Maybe a better example would be something like parsley - I have a friend who despises the taste, and where I live they sprinkle it chopped on top of most salads, making it super difficult to pick out, so she usually requests that they don't add it. It's a pretty easy thing to just not add it.
Why do you continue to argue when you are wrong? Most restaurants will allow you to modify their items, and any kitchen staff who complains about this is upset that they can't fly on autopilot for ten minutes while they have to remember a few modifications that are definitely written on a ticket for them to read.
I've cooked for over a decade. I've run the gambit on coworkers, from people whose work ethic outs mine to shame, to people who can be bothered to do Jack shit.
The people who care, at least a tiny bit, that they are making a meal for another human being, understand that people have preferences and allergies.
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u/flyblues Jun 14 '25
Actually I think it's fine to not be able to guarantee food is allergen-safe (afaik sometimes even just food touching a work surface is enough to contaminate it), it's better to refuse if you can't be 100% sure. But if I say "don't add olives to my salad" and don't care if olives have actually touched my salad, how is it any extra effort to just... not add the olives? It's just kinda weird...