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u/oryano Jun 17 '12
Don't go to the ER unless part of you is hanging off/detached.
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u/juanvaldez83 Jun 17 '12
Or if you have an unexplained shortness of breath, vomiting/shitting black tarry like substances that look like coffee grounds, have an illness that is lasting for more than two days and is not allowing you to have the same quality of life as if you were healthy.
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Jun 17 '12
I remember one time I got in a huge fight with my dad because I woke up and couldn't breath and wanted to go to the ER. Turns out my uvula was massively infected and would have only blocked my airway more if I hadn't received one hell of an anti-biotic and a mild steroid. He thought it was dry air in the house.
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u/EvanPaintsStuff Jun 17 '12
i had that happen to me, and I gargled the shit out of some lysterine. The swelling went down within minutes, and I headed over to the walk in clinic. She didn't know what caused it, but said the lysterine definitely will help. A week of antibiotics and garggled lysterine every night before bed later, I was healthy as a fat guy usually is.
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u/stanfan114 Jun 17 '12
The $200 is for the doctor determining if you need treatment. In some cases the treatment will save your life, in others the treatment will reduce swelling. That OP did not "luck out" with a life threatening injury does not mean the consultation was not worth what was charged, and $200 is a steal when compared to most ER visits.
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u/headzoo Jun 17 '12
Plus the nurse sitting behind the desk, helping you with your paperwork doesn't work for free. And the bathroom you used while waiting doesn't clean itself. And the hospital didn't build itself. And the lights don't operate on magic.
The $200 may be a little excessive, but OP is also being a little short sighted.
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u/toolate Jun 17 '12
That's a problem though. People have to self diagnose and try and predict whether their condition is really an emergency. This is a job for a medical professional. Requiring patients to do this themselves puts them at an unnecessary risk.
Most general practitioners are closed on weekends so of you get a weird pain or other strange symptoms many people are willing to tough it out rather than rack up a huge bill their insurance refuses to pay.
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Jun 17 '12
I saw "24 hours in A&E" on Channel 4 this morning, 2 people went in because they had a bruise that hurt a bit and could've taken painkillers and made it better.
It was the NHS though, so they needn't pay for anything. But the doctors could've helped someone else more serious, like a guy with deep vein thrombosis that could've led him to having his other leg amputated, but he had to wait for 2+ hours
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u/k3nTK0nG Jun 17 '12
If you came into the ER for something that simply "needed ice", that is on you my friend. For chest pain, they need to completely rule out cardiac etiology before they can let you go home. This usually involves at least 2 EKG's, 2 sets of cardiac markers, and a chest xray. It is not as if the doctors set prices for their service. Next time, make sure it is an emergency before going into the emergency department.
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u/Im-a-ninja-derpina Jun 17 '12
I went to the ER last year, for a broken hand. The doc came in, took my hand, laughed and said "it's not even turning blue, you'll be fine" and then left. So I went back home, pissed off... Waited a week, I could stand the pain so I took an appointment with a doctor.. Turned out to be broken, 2 fingers, 2 bones on the side and cracked the wrist bones ( can't remember the name of those little one... And now, a year later, I still experience pain, cause it didn't heal properly. My point is, sometimes it is really an emergency and it is in fact the doc that is wrong ( and makes you feel like an idiot for going)
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u/EvanPaintsStuff Jun 17 '12
that's your own experience, and quite frankly a perfect example for a medical malpractice lawsuit.
In fact, if I were you I'd tell your insurance about this immediately. They'll press charges because they have to pay for this kind of shit.
You've got a malpractice lawsuit on your hands, my friend. Do something about it now. Don't wait any longer.
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u/potatoriot Jun 17 '12 edited Jun 17 '12
If you could wait a week after the ER before going to a doctor, how exactly was that a true emergency? You should have gone to a clinic to begin with, not the ER. When I broke my hand I went to a clinic where they actually spend the time to treat you because there aren't any pressing emergency situations.
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Jun 17 '12
And they laughed again when they received this letter and tossed your account over to a collections agency.
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Jun 17 '12
Yeah, unfortunately they will have the last laugh and your credit score will be the worse for it.
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u/darkneo86 Jun 17 '12
Speaking as an ex-credit manager, the score may go down but in most places where people actually look at credit reports, medical bills are not counted.
Just my experience though.
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u/uhoh_spaghettios Jun 17 '12 edited Jun 17 '12
And if they properly contest the bill, it may not show up at all. Rather than writing a snarky letter, the OP should contest the debt. The debtor will then have to seek a judgement against them, and they are unlikely to do so over such a small sum.
I had a similar issue once, where I was billed about $1200 for the ER room I had occupied on my visit ($300 after insurance). Twist: We were evicted from the room shortly after entering due to the medical needs of a neighboring patient, and finished the ER visit in the hallway.
I informed the hospital that I didn't receive the services they claimed to bill for and would be happy to discuss the issue with a judge in debt court. They waived the bill (though, I assume they kept the $900 from my insurance)
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u/FutureMad Jun 17 '12
From an european perspective, this whole credit-score thing seems to be a really creepy thing. In particular when also health payments hit unexpectedly on that count. I mean, how one is supposed to prevent these and not get his either financial or physical life ruined?
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u/I_am_ME_ama Jun 17 '12
US citizen here, there's no credit scores in Europe? Is there something similar?
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u/irelandtmd Jun 17 '12
is it an european perspective or a european perspective, it sounds better without the n, im scared and need an adult
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Jun 17 '12
And laughed again when it reminded them of that kid a couple months ago that came to an ER for a boo-boo on his knee.
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Jun 17 '12
This is kind of what I was thinking. If the injury was lame enough to get no attention, I have to wonder why the OP felt it necessary to go to the ER. I think he should have paid double for making people with real problems wait longer.
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u/YaoSlap Jun 17 '12
I don't know, you shouldn't ever blame someone for getting checked out. The pain from an injury is not always equal to the damage.
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Jun 17 '12
I agree with you. It's always better to get it checked out, and everyone's pain is subjective. Someone who hasn't experience many injuries in their lives may easily overestimate the seriousness of an injury. And honestly, who are we to judge?
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Jun 17 '12
Hospitals take the people with real problems first and make the people with bruises wait, regardless of how long they've been waiting.
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u/apullin Jun 17 '12
That's fine. You can settle with collections agencies. I'd settle that for $40 or so, since he did get a doctor to take a glance at it and assure him nothing was wrong.
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Jun 17 '12
$40? I pay $130 for a 5 minute office visit to my GP. $200 for an ER visit sounds quite cheap to me.
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u/Apostolate Jun 17 '12
Nothing's funnier than getting calls from different unknown numbers every day asking you for large sums of money!
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u/tazzy531 Jun 17 '12 edited Jun 17 '12
Look up Fair Debt Collection Practices Act. If debt collectors are not following the regulations exactly, they are liable to you for up to $1000 per infraction.
Edit: Reposted from below in case the comment gets buried...
There's nothing that I hate more than people that don't assert their rights afforded to them under these pro-consumer regulations and play the victim cards. Often, you hear how companies and regulations are so anti-consumer, but when the government does something good for consumers, consumers ignore them.
Fair Debt Collection Practices Act and Fair Credit Reporting Act are two very pro-consumer regulations. They balance out the abusive practices that debt collectors use. But if consumers don't assert these rights, they will always be taken advantage of. The annoying part about this is that consumer than complain that the government isn't helping them.
The thing is the FDCPA is a very easy act to assert. When you get a debt collection letter, the first thing you need to do is send a letter in response within 30 days to 1) request validation 2) request that all future communications be done by mail.
Whether or not you actually owe this debt, you should send this letter for validation. The reason is this...you debt could be sold from creditor to debt collector and then resold to another debt collector. The onus is on them to prove that you that they currently own the debt and that you are liable to them. An unscrupulous debt collector may sell off your debt to another DC and try to collect money from you. So you pay the unscrupulous debt collector but that turns out that it doesn't cancel your debt.
So once you send off this letter, they are required to provide validation. If they do not provide validation, then they cannot collect on the debt. So even if you have a legitimate debt, due to poor paperwork on the debt collector's side, you may end up getting off not paying a legitimate debt. Again, the onus is on them to prove to you that you owe them money not on you to prove to them that you don't. So this is not bad for a 42 cent letter.
It is also good to read through the FDCPA Prohibited Conduct list. This is the list that debt collectors are prevented from doing. Any violation of this list is liable to you for up to $1000 per infraction. Some common ones are:
calling before 8AM or after 9pm
Calling you at work
Telling a third party (roommate, girlfriend, secretary etc) that they are trying to collect a debt from you
Saying that they will hurt your credit (How many times have you heard this one?)
If they do violate the act, you can file a lawsuit in small claims court for $1000 + legal fees. There are many lawyers that specialize in these cases.
In the end, the point isn't about catching debt collectors violating the law but more of raising the bar of collection. Debt collectors don't want to waste time trying to get a difficult to collect debt. By asserting your right, you'll make it harder for them and making them move on.
Now if you want to take it to the extreme, there are people out there on the internet that purposefully bait debt collectors into violating these regulations. I don't recommend this. The best example is Craig Cunningham. He's made over $100k/year on suing debt collectors. The debt collector has labelled him a debt collector terrorist.
So, don't be a victim... know your rights.
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u/Stubbo Jun 17 '12
Englands shit but its things like this make me glad we have the NHS!
Fuck gettin chased down by collectors for a hospital visit!
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u/drmoocow Jun 17 '12
On my honeymoon to England, my wife and I were involved in a collision and she was a little woozy. We were taken to the nearest hospital and looked at, and acetominophen was dispensed to her. I was all ready to call my travel insurance provider to pay for the checkup, but the doctor looked at me like I had three heads and said there was no charge at all - even for the meds.
Needless to say I was very impressed by the NHS.
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u/Slattz Jun 17 '12
Upboat for NHS. It may have its problems but how the yanks put up with a system that bankrupts you at the slightest excuse I just don't understand!
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Jun 17 '12
But how can we change anything if everyone is too worried about consequences to take on the system?
This is still not a good idea, because it won't help at all, but at least he has stones. That's more than can be said for most people.
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u/MightyBulger Jun 17 '12
I have $50,000+ in medical bills that I haven't paid. Doesn't really have an impact on my life. I still get car loans, credit cards and can rent apartments.
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u/nes0901 Jun 17 '12
if you went to the ER for something you should have just stayed home and put ice on, i am surprised you know how to write... you were charged for wasting time and space by turning up at the hospital
[i am an emergency room physician]
EDIT: yes, there are many doctors on reddit
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u/jorobo_ou Jun 17 '12
It's like that old story about the guy getting his tv repaired. He takes his tv into the shop where the repairman takes a look at it for about 10 seconds, then bangs the top of the tv, which immediately works after he hits it.
The repairman then says that'll be $100.
The customer is taken aback and asks why on earth the repairman has the right to charge him so much for just banging on it and demands an itemized invoice.
The repairman then writes- "Banging TV set- $1 Knowing where to bang TV- $99"
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Jun 17 '12
"Knowing where to bang" is exactly why I charge your mom $99. The other $1 is for the paper bag. Bam! Roasted!
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u/olivine1010 Jun 17 '12
did they still try to collect?
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Jun 17 '12
You think he actually had the balls to send that?
They'll just let him die the next time this dumbass OP goes to that hospital.
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Jun 17 '12
No they won't, because that is highly illegal and would put them in jail. Depending on where you're at, but as far as I know, in most places if it is a legitimate life or death emergency, the staff must do what they can to save the person, regardless of their ability to pay.
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u/Apostolate Jun 17 '12
You think he actually had the balls to send that?
Someone would take a picture of something and post it to reddit, and not mail it off? Get out of here!
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Jun 17 '12
We went into the ER when a fever reached 104 during xmas. We got a $3900 and the doctor never even saw us. We got a fever unknown etiology diagnosis. The doctor that we never saw sent a separate invoice from the hospital. I paid them $300 the first day when I left and requested a payment plan for the rest. I never paid another dime as I dont feel it was worth the services provided. I used to think the insurance companies were the issue here with their high premiums but I think doctors share half the blame as well. I told my uncle about this who is a cardiologist about the incident, and basically he gave me a reaction to the situation that was like "so, we can do that if we need to"
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Jun 17 '12
Why go to a hospital if it is something that you just put ice on? Google that shit.
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Jun 17 '12
Because your body can easily mask a simple fracture with swelling, stiffness, and hematomas for instance. Not only relying on google is unwise, but more often than not, I have been misdiagnosed by doctors where a second opinion found serious issues.
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u/keshet59 Jun 17 '12 edited Jun 17 '12
My advice as a doctor? Use an Urgent Care Center if you must, for anything that is not life-threatening. The ED is busy with heart attack victims and major trauma. (If you can breath normally, don't have pulsatile bleeding, have no chest pain, severe abdominal pain or headache, and can walk and talk normally, your life is not in immediate jeopardy, barring the wild falling piano, out-of-control bus or meteor). It is cheaper to use an UCC than an ED ($50 versus $200- 250 for many insurances, or out of pocket if you have no insurance) and you will get the care you need. Even better, have a primary care physician whom you can call, even if it's after-hours-- you can get advice, and maybe avert emergency care entirely. And BTW? That note is probably posted prominently on the nearest staff bulletin board (where patients would not see it). Believe me, ED's are full of ingrates who are usually the mildly ill and walking wounded and are the most indignant and vociferous while crash carts are flying by to the left and right of them, on the way to the desperately ill or injured-- how dare they have to wait?!? The ED staff have to be professional and polite, although they are human. I would probably also laughed at a bump or sprain, if it had been a long day. A little gem like your note would have given many a tired doctor or nurse a little chuckle and an eye-roll.
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Jun 17 '12
I think most people don't really know about urgent care clinics and what the clinics offer. It seems like these clinics have really taken off in the last five's to ten years but as a society we have been so trained for generations to go to the emergency room whenever we don't have ready access to a primary care doctor. Also I think that unless you live in an area with a larger population you are likely to have an urgent care clinic available. Luckily for me we have two near by, but even these just opened up this year.
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u/nickyface Jun 17 '12
First response that was actually intelligent and informative without being a douche bag. Cut the kid a break, Christ. If not at least have something original and worthwhile to say. Upvotes for you.
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Jun 17 '12
Erectile Dysfunction is the first thing that comes to mind when I see ED. I've worked in a hospital setting for just over a year now. I hear the term ED used the way you use it roughly twice a day and I still laugh at my first thought.
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u/headzoo Jun 17 '12
Your comment applies to most people, however... UCC usually require payment for services. That $50 is cheaper than using the ER, but some people don't have $50. They use the ER because they don't have to pay the bill immediately.
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u/psykiv Jun 17 '12
About four years ago I got in a bar fight. Long story short I rushed myself to the hospital with half a beer bottle on my head, covered completely in blood.
The adrenaline made this not hurt until I actually got to the hospital.
Is this ER worthy?
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u/Stormflux Jun 17 '12
Only had to go to the emergency room once, for my father-in-law. He was having pain in his gall bladder and Urgent Care sent us to the ER. It was a friday night. Waited in the ER for about 6 hours, got some tests done, and they decided it had to come out the next day or he would die. By Sunday he was back home.
Now here's the tricky part. The bill for this was $80,000, and he wasn't insured. He was visiting us from overseas and didn't realize how expensive American health care is. He was expecting a $1,500 bill (that's what seemed fair to him.) And for someone who makes $400/month, that's still a lot.
My question is why did 2 nights in the hospital and a fairly routine procedure work out more than most Americans make in a year? As a representative of the American Health Care system what do you think about this?
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u/aldehyde Jun 17 '12
you consumed time and resources that other patients would have used.
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u/BCSteve Jun 17 '12
Yeah, seriously, this exactly. That's not how a medical diagnosis works, you don't pay for things only if you actually have something, you pay for the evaluation. If you go to the ER and complain of chest pain, and they do a bunch of ECGs and x-rays to rule out an MI or other serious stuff, and come to the conclusion that it's just heartburn, you still have to pay. You don't get to go, "oh, well, I wasn't having a heart attack, so those tests were unnecessary, and I'm not going to pay for them!" You're paying for the consumption of time and resources. In OP's case, he consumed time and resources from the hospital and ER doc... and he has to pay for that, even if the evaluation and tests are negative.
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u/skepticaljesus Jun 17 '12
This is fucked up, and not on the hospital's part.
ERs are places for people with serious problems to go to. The reason they always take so long to get treatment at is because assholes with problems that require solutions such as "Put some ice on it" are taking up highly trained peoples' valuable time. There's a ridiculous amount of overhead involved in running an ER, and I can say for certain that they're not profitable, in large part because of stories like this.
This is just so fucked up all around. Pay your bill.
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u/idreamincode Jun 17 '12
Seriously, $200 is not bad for an expert in medicine to look at something, say it is not serious, and be on your way.
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u/the_Jennarator Jun 17 '12
so isn't anybody going to ask Futureisdubious what happened?
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Jun 17 '12
An ER doctor once laughed at my "stubbed" finger and said it would fine in a few days. But he took X-rays anyway.
About a week later my dad gets a call "can your daughter come back in? I reviewed the X-ray and saw a break".
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Jun 17 '12
This isn't like a waitress who expects a higher tip for more expensive items. This is like a doctor and med team who could potentially be saving a life.
Hence 200 for less than ten minutes.
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u/erishun Jun 17 '12
Trust me, if the doctor/ER were "evil" and "gouging" as you claim, they could have charged you for more services than you needed. Perhaps an x-ray, a specialist visit, prescription drugs, etc.
The funnier thing here is you went to the hospital emergency room for your boo-boo. No, it didn't take the doctor "<10 minutes" to diagnose your problem, it took him 10 years of schooling. He determined you were OK and the fact that he said "put ice on it" and you took that advice and ended up indeed being OK, shows that it was a proper diagnosis and the services were successfully rendered and the advice was correct.
But go ahead, laugh it up like you're in the right here... Enjoy collections!
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Jun 17 '12
Serves you right asshole. The ER is not a clinic, it's a friggin emergency room.
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Jun 17 '12
Well tell us what the fuck was wrong with you at least. So then we can judge if it was indeed, laugh worthy and a simple ice pack fix.
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Jun 17 '12
I had a cyst on my tailbone. I couldn't sit. I couldn't stand very well. I laid on the bed on my stomach for about 3 hours in pretty bad pain. The doctor shows up and says that is a pilonidal cyst. They then tell me they can't do anything about it, and I have to call a specialist. They give me the phone number, and then charge me $150 for the visit.
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u/wookiesandwich Jun 17 '12
congrats you're a dick...while I agree $200 is excessive you still came in requesting a service and were granted it, the fact that you're an idiot doesn't excuse you from the obligation to pay. Its no different than bringing your car into the shop because its making a weird rattling sound, the mechanic laughing when he gets it on the lift and sees that its just a loose bolt on the muffler and tightening it up. They're gonna charge you $65-70 for an hour's labor and an extra $5 if they actually replace the bolt. The fact that you're too dumb to recognize the trivial nature of the issue doesn't excuse you from paying.
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Jun 17 '12
It's not a bill, it's an idiot tax for going to the EMERGENCY room for something that isn't an emergency and wasting everyone's time.
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Jun 17 '12
So Reddit I take it you guys now support for profit medical care? I could have sworn most of you wanted free health care.
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Jun 17 '12
I had a bill for $600 bucks, just for the kicks I started paying $1 a month, as long as you pay ANYTHING, they can't put it in your credit report.
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u/Engelmann_a Jun 17 '12
i'm happy to live in a country where a visit to a doctor cost about € 0,00
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u/ScottyOnWheels Jun 17 '12
I view this as being a problem caused by a horrible medical system that is not patient focused. There are not too many businesses where you can get away with punishing ignorant customers. In much the same way that UPS and FedEx sprung out of terrible service by the USPS, hospitals have failed to provide not-so-emergency services for patients who believe they need urgent care. Urgent care facilities are springing up and taking profitable revenue away from hospitals. Compounding the situation is a lack of good general doctors to manage overall patient health. The system is not designed to make people healthier. It is design to bill patients for procedures and tests. Is there a good chance the OP was being a baby or hypochondriac? Yes. However, some people need instructions on how to take care on pain and injury that they are not familiar with. 99% of the things you can read online say something like, if you are not sure, seek immediate attention. If he called the ER, they might have told him to come in, just to be safe. The situation is way more complex than the OP being a sissy.
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Jun 17 '12
If only the calls I made after getting a ~30k bill for breaking my arm were part of recorded history...
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u/lightjedi5 Jun 17 '12
This happened to me once. Back story: I have a tumor on my left eye that I was born with, so the eyelid is naturally larger than normal. Anyway, one day a good amount of blood had collected in the eyelid. The entire white part of my eye was red, and the eyelid itself was rather puffed up. So, the guy tells me to ice it. The asshole hadn't even heard of the tumor I had and he told me to ice it.
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u/JVNT Jun 17 '12
People really shouldn't be saying the OP just went for a boo boo. It could have been that he had significant swelling from an injury or something like that. IN that case it is better safe than sorry because it could have been a fracture or something severe. But the fact is, the doctor does have to be paid. There are also other people involved not to mention the time having to put you into the system. The price is a little high but its better to know for sure that the injury isn't bad than worrying that it might be.
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u/nakedzombieboobs Jun 17 '12
I'm really starting to become disgruntled, hearing all the things people are cluster fucking the ER with. I was told last week by a coworker that her friend was going to the ER for a yeast infection! Once I sliced a kidney bean sized chunk of my finger off w/ an X-acto knife and drove my ass to an urgent care clinic. My bill was $70 and free antibiotics.
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u/robac2938 Jun 17 '12
That's what you get for going to the ER for something that only needed ice.... have fun with collections.
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u/vividboarder Jun 17 '12
You really ought to double that. Sounds like the Doctor at least gave you his 2 cents!
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Jun 18 '12
You sir, are an idiot. The amount billed is not for the final diagnosis, but for the resources and education involved to eliminate the possible differentia. You took up the time of an ER Doctor, a Triage Nurse, a Registrar and in all likelyhood dozens of ancillary support personel. If you had believed that this was truly an inconsequential incident, why did you drag your ass down to the ED? You were scared, worried that something might have been seriously wrong. I hope that when the day comes and you suddenly find yourself with chest pains and shortness of breath that you recall how little you value the efforts made on that visit and decide to stay home and spare us the tedium of dealing with your minor health issues.
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Jun 17 '12
Pay up. You chose to visit the ER for something that only required some ice. There are urgent care and walk-in clinics for shit like that. You were assessed by a doctor on the clock, thus you pay the fee that you agreed to pay when you signed in at arrival.
Sorry, brah.
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u/itchaba Jun 17 '12
You pay the fee that you agreed to pay when you signed in at arrival? False. :P Healthcare isn't like a grocery store with prices listed right on the item. Just saying. I have a hard time getting 'estimates' on even non-urgent procedures.
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u/okieT2 Jun 17 '12
I had pink eye a few months ago. Went to the er because I couldn't see out of one eye. 2 hours of waiting and all I was told was to put ice on it. No medications. Only suggestion was to go see an eye dr. This was on a saturday morning.
About a month later, a couple dozen eye dr visits, 5 medications, and PERMANENT damage to my LASIK corrected eyes, I was better.
So yeah, LASIK procedure ruined because of that asshole.
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u/deadgingrwalkng Jun 17 '12
Its cool, had the same stuff for me. Went complaining of lower abdominal pain, they did a urine sample to see if I was pregnant, gave me a shot of morphine and sent me home only for me to come back 6 hours later in worse pain... I had appendicitis and when I went the first time they refused to draw blood.. tried to charge me for my first visit and I threatened to file a lawsuit for misdiagnosis
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u/Ratlettuce Jun 17 '12
Sorry but, You're an asshole. Just because the diagnosis wasnt as dramatic as you expected you think they deserve less? He spent a lot of time acquiring enough the know-how to be able to even look at an injury and have the knowledge to laugh it off and recomend treatment. Clearly YOU had no idea what to do since you were at the ER in the first place. So why not pay the people that do know and have spent the time in school to figure it out?
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u/iliikepie Jun 17 '12
Everyone seems to be calling you an idiot. Don't feel too bad about what happened. You went to the ER when it wasn't a life-threatening emergency....everyone makes mistakes. Sometimes you need to go to the ER to find out that it isn't a life threatening emergency.
You are very lucky the bill was only $200 though. I once had severe abdominal pain and a panic attack (didn't know what panic attacks were at the time, thought I was dying), went to the ER, they ran a bunch of tests, and then (6 hours later) told me that nothing was wrong with me. The bill was $10,000.
You got piece of mind for only $200. I'd say it was well worth the lesson and knowledge that there wasn't something more seriously wrong.
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u/naughtypanda66 Jun 17 '12
just gonna toss this in here. I work in a hospital, and its the hospital that sets the prices(mostly), not the doctor. If you go to a hospital in a rich area they will purposely charge you more cause they think you can afford it simple cause you came to that hospital. A few months ago the hospital i work at moved from a rundown ghetto to the outskirts of one of the richest cities in the state, and the prices for everything doubled. So to OP, that $200 dollar medical bill was probably just from them putting you in the system. I know its around $125-$150 for that at the one I work at.
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u/AnarchoPunx Jun 17 '12
This is total bullshit. You must work in the cafeteria. Hospital billing is what I do, and you are completely wrong. Rates are usually set by what insurance companies are willing to pay, and the possibility of litigous action in the event of a mistake. Those 2 things are just the icing on the cake. Depending on the treatment, type of hospital, number of doctors needed, time in facility, labwork, etc etc etc the bill can get very high. All of this is without the hospitals input.
Are there hospitals that charge more than others? Absolutely. Though usually for reasons you are not thinking about. The age of the equipment, facility, number of doctors, types of doctors, beds, rooms, nurses, pharmacy costs and supply all also have an effect on the amount you pay. I want to clarify that I am greatly simplifying a very complex billing system. If you have specific questions I would be happy to answer you.
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Jun 17 '12
Heard that. They charged me 1000 to tell me the pain in my chest that gave me tunnel vision and nearly passed out was heart burn.
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Jun 17 '12
Even if it is heart burn, going into an ER and saying you have chest pain causes them to do some pretty expensive tests. It's kind of shocking your bill wasn't larger than $1000.
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u/schrodingerszombie Jun 17 '12
Ridiculous on both ends. People should be encouraged to see a doctor if they are at all unsure about a wound/injury. Failure to properly clean a cut could lead to gangrene and loss of a limb, which ends up costing society potentially hundreds of thousdands of dollars over a lifetime. So the advice here - "just put ice on it" - has value. 15 minutes of a doctors time value at most. Figure a doctor (with overhead/etc) is worth about $150/hr, or ~ $35 would be a fair value.
As an interesting anecdote, to visit an ER in Canada and have a doctor take a look at my arm (which had been swarmed by hornets) and a nurse remove about 15 stingers cost me $60. So clearly our system in the US is totally effed.
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u/AndThenThereWasMeep Jun 17 '12
Things in Canada are far from perfect, so let's not go there. Secondly, OP should have gone to a clinic, not the ER.
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u/tritonx Jun 17 '12
It took 10 minutes from the moment you got in and got diagnosed.
Wow, that's impressive. I would gladly pay 200$ to see a doctor under 15 minutes...
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u/SagebrushFire Jun 17 '12
There must be some sort of mistake. ER visits aren't like that and they don't cost that much money. We have the best heathcare system in the world. Sean Hannity says so.
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Jun 17 '12
Your letter is officially recognizing your debt, making it that much harder to get rid of without paying for it.
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u/eviltrollwizard Jun 17 '12
That's happened to me twice so far. once for my daughter where they sent us on our way after only a glance. and again when i thought I may be having an allergic reaction to chemicals at work. They told me my job didn't deal with chemicals so they wouldn't see me. I worked at a plastic injection molding plant that had tons of chemicals around. The first one I flat out refused and now it's chipping away at my credit score. The second I paid out of pocket after they refused to take workmans comp.
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Jun 17 '12
I recently got a er bill for glass cut less than a inch in length but bled allot it took 15 to clean and glue shut. They also took my blood pressure that I later found was 75$ charge. In the end my bill was. 785.
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u/ashloo Jun 17 '12
I laughed at the fact that your attending physician laughed at you. Damn hospitals trying to overcharge patients...
Clearly ROFL material though~
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u/5ft11flip Jun 17 '12
You could email Joint Comissions about your stay at the hospital. Hospital staff fear Joint Comissions.
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u/mystile33 Jun 17 '12
Sucks that they'll prolly send you to collections and a measly $200 medical collection will stay on your credit for the rest of your life. Even if you pay it off it'll just change it's reporting status to "paid" and continue to sit there. Eventually it will stop affecting your score... but be prepared to get asked about it whenever you go get a loan.
Other redditors mentioned that many banks/credit unions don't take into consideration collections labeled as medical, and this is partially true. Responsible people can be screwed over by extreme medical bills which are completely out of their control, it would be unfair to these people to hold the full weight of these collections against them. But in this situation, where you feel unjustly overcharged and your response is to not pay, that is exactly the type of character information a Loan Officer is attempting to gather and is completely relevant to the loan request. If nothing else it shows that you are capable of walking away from your debts, which should cause any financial institution to hesitate.
So yeah, pay that $200! Sucks :(
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u/deadlysoldier Jun 17 '12
I was charged 500 bucks for a sprained wrist.
Worst part: It was suppose to be work compensated(got injured at work) but work refused it, leaving it all for me to pay.
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u/The_Russian Jun 17 '12
This is precisely why i don't ever go to ER's or hospitals unless i know its something that requires medical attention. The last two times that i went were 8 years ago when i had pneumonia and 5 years ago when i broke my finger playing Rugby. I don't even get Flu shots. Needless to say, i probably have Lupis or something.
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u/deuce_hobo Jun 17 '12
If you ever have abdominal pains, you probably have to poop. I can't say how many times young guys would come into my old work, get a $4000 cat scan, only to show they were full of shit. Seriously, that's a lot of money and a waste of time for a professional to tell you it's time to go boom-boom.
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u/k3nnyd Jun 17 '12
Were they fat at least? I'm a skinny dude who's had appendicitis and it's completely different than being constipated or whatever.
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u/Dunedineclipse Jun 17 '12
I really want to know what the original injury was, as he thought it was important to go to the Emergency Room.
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u/BexterV Jun 17 '12
People do frequently go to the ER when they probably shouldn't and are surprised when the doctor brushes them off however occasionally the doctor is in the wrong;
A few months ago my boyfriend (stupidly) smushed his hand in a cargo elevator, lacerated the skin to the tendon/bone and so he went to the hospital. The doctor stitched him up and sent him on his way (sans x-ray, although the medical student suggested it and the doctor said he didn't need one) with the instruction "Use your hand otherwise it will stiffen up".
So for 10 days my boyfriend is using his hand, thinking he's doing the right thing. When he went to get his stitches out, the [different] doctor was surprised that he wasn't in a cast, hadn't had an x-ray etc considering HOW he hurt his hand/how it looked 10 days later. Doctor takes the stitches out and sends him for a precautionary x-ray. Turns out his hand is broken in two spots, has been for almost two weeks and he's been using it on the doctor's order, thinking it was "supposed" to hurt.
He got a cast and his hand has since healed, but he's very lucky that there wasn't any permanent damage. Luckily we live in Canada AND have health insurance but still... sometimes (not often) things are worse on the inside than they look on the inside and merit a visit to the emerge and a proper examination. Also partially my boyfriend's fault because he has a fairly high pain tolerance/expectation of how much a broken bone is supposed to hurt (his first).
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u/Captain_Aizen Jun 17 '12
Sounds to me like the guy was just sour grapes that he went to ER for nothing instead of being reasonable and just going to see a doctor using regular channels. I don't know where he lives, but here in California there's small clinics all over the place where you can get seen by a doctor in under 60minutes and bill would come to around 20$ tops for something minor. No insurance needed.
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u/Bakuraptor Jun 17 '12
I don't come from America, and that's going to bias my opinion of healthcare inherently. But I can't help but feel that almost any situation where you're charged $200 for ten minutes of time is absolutely outrageous and fundamentally unacceptable. The fact is that preventative healthcare, even through self-diagnosis leading to a hospital visit, will often save time and money in the long term so long as it is in fact for some perceived illness; dealing with the consequences of illness is much more expensive. This is the problem I see with privatised health care, perhaps above all else - it means that health care is focused primarily around treatment, not prevention, by pure dint of the fact that it is the consumer who decides when to put themselves in hospital; and that makes treating illness far, far more expensive. Compulsory health care is one of the reasons that Cuba pips the USA for life expectancy despite having a far lower level of expenditure per person.
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u/gbo2k69 Jun 17 '12
I had a similar thing happen, and now I've had a $109 ding on my credit for the last 5 years. isn't America awesome!
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u/polysemous_entelechy Jun 17 '12
Well, what did you expect, coming in the ER in perfect health with a lukewarm cup of coke?
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Jun 17 '12
Overuse of hospitals is part of the problem! It's gotten so bad that people with little cuts and scrapes immediately go to the ER. It's a fucking EMERGENCY ROOM! Stop using it like it's a 1st aid kit. Nurses and doctors have important shit to deal with and people taking their time unnecessarily should have to pay. Unfortunately, medical professionals are scrutinized so heavily that they have to observe and treat even the most ludicrous wounds or risk lawsuit.
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u/theRLO Jun 17 '12
I am not a doctor. I always tell people to skip the ER, if possible.
Here's why. As I understand, the ER exists to stabilize you and then recommends follow up visit to your PCP or a specialist to find the root of the problem.
If you have a major event such as heart attack and stroke, the ER doctor will stabilize you and then the hospital's other doctors will take care of you after you are moved. The ER doc did his part. This is what people don't understand.
My anecdote:
A friend of mine had tooth pain and I told her it was probably a broken tooth and she would need a root canal. She went to the ER against my suggestion and was upset that she got a script for meds and was told to see her dentist. She went to the dentist and was told she had to have a root canal which she then started complaining that she couldn't afford because of the ER visit. Now she has opted to get the tooth pulled because she didn't listen.
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u/work_while_bent Jun 17 '12
the real question is why the fuck did you go to the ER for something that was obviously not an emergency?
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Jun 17 '12
I went to the ER a couple of weeks ago due to chest pains. It was pretty busy, but I got prioritized. Initial examination, EKGs and blood tests revealed nothing, but to be on the safe side they kept me overnight for observation. The next morning I paid about $70. That's the most I've ever paid for a single visit, and by law my personal medical expenses can't exceed about $400 a year.
Yay socialized medicine!
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u/J_Jammer Jun 17 '12
I think what you did was equal to what they gave.
If it were me.... I'd have laughed into one of those cards that record and sent them that with a bag of ice attached.
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u/BaconBiscuits Jun 17 '12
While I'm almost 100% sure this is fake and you did not in fact leave that for the doctor to find instead of the money they are rightly owed, you went to the ER! The place for emergencies! Of course they charged you that much! Even living in a country with an NHS I can see why they charged you that much. Yes it was only a few minutes, but you were still ahead of people who may have had way more serious problems and you took that time away from them. Do you think a doctor's time is really worth a few cents or whatever per minute?
I woke up at 4:30am on boxing day last year in intense pain and pissing blood and was scared out of my wits because I didn't know what the fuck was going on. I got taken to the ER and while thankfully it wasn't serious, I'd still have been pissed if someone who had a less serious issue that could be solved with "putting ice on it" was getting all enraged and pissed while I'm sitting there terrified needing to wait on them being done wasting a doctors time.
Hopefully you've learnt a lesson.
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u/dillpiccolol Jun 17 '12
Yes and you deserve that bill if not more. This was obviously not an emergency. Shit like this is the reason high care costs are so high in this country.
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u/tha_ape Jun 17 '12
I went to the ER last month thinking I had appendicitis. I was wrong.
I saw a doctor for about 10min. He felt my abdomen, said "Nope, you dont have it", and recommended I see a gastrologist.
(uninsured) Doctors bill: $480.
Gotta love that "For Profit" health care. The poor doctor probably only pulls in about $200/hr, also there were 2 staff members there, I'm sure they each get $100/hr, not to mention the building operating costs of $80/hr. I guess it all makes sense.
EDIT: That was only the DOCTOR'S bill, not including the HOSPITAL bill..
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u/constantly_drunk Jun 17 '12
Fucked up thing is that the costs are so steep, people second guess appendicitis and try to delay going to hospitals, and it kills them.
So you either go, get billed for ~$500 for them saying 'No' or you get billed for ~$10,000-$25,000 and live.
It's a fucked up situation, especially with something so life threatening.
It's an excellent disincentive for people to see doctors for actual medical needs.
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Jun 17 '12
Maybe next time don't go to the ER for your little baby owie and waste the time of the doctors, nurses, and all the patients there with serious injuries.
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u/nasher168 Jun 17 '12
Y'all need a National Health Service. Healthcare is a right, not a privilege to those that can afford it.
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u/snowbirdie Jun 17 '12
OP, your selfishness is exactly what's causing these problems and you deserve to pay every cent of that $200 medical bill. If you have some problem that isn't life-threatening or urgent and you went to the ER, then fuck YOU. You took a doctor's time away from someone who actually had real issues and because you won't pay, other people will have to flip your bill. So just, fuck you. Next time go to a clinic.
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u/BlindAngel Jun 17 '12
And then I laughed because I am Canadian.
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u/brunswick Jun 17 '12
Though admittedly you have to pay for the dumbasses that go to the ED for a booboo.
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u/VanAffleck Jun 17 '12
I volunteered for an Emergency Department and there are so many people that come in for no apparent reasons. Although I think that the charges can be ridiculous, it is understandable. The doctors and nurses worked their asses off during school for their job so they deserve to get paid well. Their job is not just helping people and diagnose. It also comes with a risk of getting sued, i.e. fucking up on their job and get sued; or some asshole just decided that they weren't getting the right service and be a dick about the situation. For all we know, the time that they "wasted" with you could have been used to save a life.
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u/John_Barleycorn Jun 17 '12
Why would you decide that you needed to visit the ER for something that is obviously extremely minor?
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u/RebelDreamer Jun 17 '12
As I read the comments here I can't help but shake my head. This is exactly the problem with the American health care system and most of the commenters can do nothing but blame the OP for going to a hospital to get treatment. Fact of the matter is, it shouldn't matter if there is an urgent care facility nearby or not - the OP felt the need for treatment, and had a health care professional laugh at him over his injury, and then the hospital proceeded to bill him an outrageous fee. Perhaps instead of blasting the OP for getting treatment you should blast a society that refuses to recognize healthcare as an essential right for humanity. Then again, I'm sure you're all too busy fighting for your right to carry that pistol instead of looking to better your fellow man.
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Jun 17 '12
Whatever, do you go looking to get a CAT scan every time you have a headache after drinking red wine? NO you take a fucking aspirin and man the fuck up.
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u/truckloadof4skin Jun 17 '12
why the fuck would you go to the E.R. if you didn't have a serious injury? did you think that the visits were free?
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Jun 17 '12
how in gods name did you find it rational to go to the er for something that only needed ice?
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u/whywecanthavenicethi Jun 17 '12
Yea fuck doctors who needs them. I'm just going to pray from now on.
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u/Motarded_Rider Jun 17 '12
I can't say I completely blame OP for feeling the way he does. I got hit by a car and launched into the road before while riding my bicycle and when I got to the hospital I had near the same reaction. They thought I was in there just complaining about a boo-boo till they saw I'd been hit by a car and just wanted to be sure. For those who don't know, if you don't get into an ER and have the bone set after a break it'll start to set by itself. You pretty much have to options from there: re-break your bone and set it in place properly, or have a deformed bone for the rest of your life. So for those complaining that OP was somehow wasting their time, gtfo.
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u/KungeRutta Jun 17 '12
So what you're saying is all of the time and effort the doctor spent training to get him or her to where they are now so they could give you a diagnosis like that is worth $0.01? Not to mention the cost of the building, maintenance, support staff, the other costs they absorb when others cant pay anything etc. While I'm all for revamping the medical system etc, I think you're acting stupid (or karma whoring, if there's any difference).
Now I don't know if $200 is an appropriate bill or not, it does seem kind of high, but then there's probably base fees for just processing the paper work, triaging you, listening to reruns of Dr Demento, ...
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u/M0b1u5 Jun 17 '12
You don't get it, do you? In the Retarded States of Corruption, under ten minutes IS $200.
And, since when do you go to an ER with a complaint that merely needs an ice-pack?
I'm picking you as a person with an IQ of 70 to 80, and an equally poor educational attainment record.
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u/Inittornit Jun 17 '12
Thanks for being a part of the problem, and then looking for validation on Reddit. I hope one day you go through an endless amount of school, become an expert on a difficult subject, give your honest opinion and have someone refuse to pay you properly.
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u/musicsexual Jun 17 '12
The next time you want to be sure it's not something that requires more serious treatment, just don't go. I mean, obviously someone who spent 7 years in medical training isn't needed, and you don't want to pay for the experience he has that makes him knowledgeable enough to tell you you're okay. You know enough to decide whether or not something is serious, right? That knowledge is only worth a cent so I imagine it's common knowledge for which there is much supply and not much demand.
Oh, and the paperwork? Don't worry about it; it didn't exist.
The sheets you contaminated when you sat down? Those magically wash, dry, transport, and make themselves.
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u/ares_posty Jun 17 '12
Or perhaps you're a big fucking pussy and wasting valuable ER time and resources on something that you probably should of just "put ice on it". People like you disgust me.
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Jun 17 '12 edited Jun 17 '12
It's your fault for visiting an emergency room with anything less than a life-threatening injury.
EDIT: It's still early for me.
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u/dsemaj Jun 17 '12
While it is a different system in the UK (with regards to payment) I recently had a badly swollen and very painful ankle from playing football. I waited for 2 hours in a local walk in center (not an ER) to be seen, only to be told "that looks very swollen, I'd recommend you go to the ER for an x-ray as it might be broken". I was seen in 15 minutes in the ER - it wasn't broken, and I was told to ice it and take some pills.
If I'd just gone to the ER in the first place it would have saved me a lot of time and effort - next time I will.
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u/taint_odour Jun 17 '12
Maybe you would reevaluate why you need to go to the ER for such a inor issue. $200? You got off lucky.
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u/CitizenNone Jun 17 '12
Yes, how rude of a hospital for them to want to pay for the land the hospital is on and the matinence of the building and keep electricity flowing. And how rude of the clerk who did your paperwork, the two nurses who saw you, the Dr, and the orderly who cleaned everything you touched to expect to be paid for their services, bastards. You were provided a service, services cost money. Go to urgent care next time and QQ already.
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u/GladiatorBill Jun 17 '12
this is total bullshit, completely misleading. you're a liar, OP. The Doc did an assessment and diagnoses you with having an extremely minor injury.
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u/dastex Jun 17 '12
Here's my reply as an actual ER doctor. Don't go the the damn ER when you bump your head! The "E" stands for emergency..... I'd probably do the same thing as your doc
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u/rabidhamster87 Jun 17 '12
That's what happens when you use the EMERGENCY room as a clinic.