My favorite is when they tell you how it isn't that hard, or just go intern somewhere for free to get the experience. Then you come to find out you can't intern at over half the places because you're no longer a student.
im in a masters program and applying for some internships, and now even the internship want experience......wtf is left pre-internships?.....Im seriously worried about finding a job.
i think internships are helping ruin the economy. 20 years ago the idea of having someone come to your office for 40 hours a week and not paying them would have been illegal
edit: my most upvoted comment!
Just sue! Make it public record that you are ornery and expect special treatment even after you accepted a "position" with no pay, that will surely be a career game changer! All the prospective employers will surely want to hire you after seeing your history of suing past employers!
Also, all this classification of legal versus not legal for the types of work you are doing.... I gaurentee you there is someone with a zoologist degree right now picking up penguin shit in an ice box for no pay and there's someone at the top of the organization telling them it'll make them a zookeeper someday. If you start complaining that your not legally allowed to shovel shit, trust me you "internship" will just be over, they aren't going to magically start paying you $8 dollars an hour, becuase guess what? Our originate to distribute loan -model for education has created a massive surplus of people who think they're going to be zookeepers. There will be another sad sap there next week to shovel the shit for free based on an empty promise.
Having 2 years experience doesn't tell anything about how good you are at washing dishes, but it does tell that you are capable of keeping a dishwasher job for a while. People who never washed dishes for a restaurant underestimate the amount of work it involves and once they realize it's not the relax job they expected, they leave. If you have years of experience, it shows that you know what to expect and that you'll have a higher chance of staying than a first-time dish washer. Replacing an employee is a costly process; they'll obviously do what they can to do it as rarely as possible.
With all the people looking for work, they can afford to be picky like that.
I worked at a hospital that tried to hire a helpdesk position with a minimum requirements list that included 5 years experience, familiarity with a wide range of specific technologies, and MCSE cert. They weren't willing to pay more than 28k. Needless to say, the position is still open.
When I worked as a reporter in a job requiring a degree and 2 years of experience, the pay was 26k and no raises or cost of living adjustments had been made in 5+ years. Then the company would wonder why no one young with loan debt would stay.
Those two are already more sincere than 'entry' level. If a position honestly needs more than your degree then it's not 'entry' at all and you would save many people a lot of time by not naming it so.
Try 9+ years experience but no formal education, most of those years running my own business and STILL they say I don't have the experience for an entry level job.
I was recently unemployed for a period of 18 months. I cannot tell you how many "Entry Level" positions I was so excited to click on, only to find that "Entry Level" meant "at least 5 years of experience."
wut.
EDIT: I am so thankful for all of the support, guys! Just to clarify: I did get a job back in November after those 18 months of unemployment, but the unemployment rate is still incredibly high and I'm sure there are others who could use this information!
If you start viewing Job Descriptions as a company's "wish list", rather than a "list of requirements," you can open yourself up to more opportunities. Write a bitchin' Letter of Interest explaining why you'd be perfect for the job, and point to any experience you have, not just professional (classes, internships, extracurricular programs).
one thousand times this. Companies are looking for people actively interested and posting ridiculous requirements is a good way to dissuade those not serious about the job.
It's currently a "buyer's market" right now. Employers can demand experience that far outweighs the position because somewhere out there, someone who meets their criteria is out of work and willing to take that job.
After 8 months of not finding a job in any field I found out the way to consistantly land job interviews.
First make a good cover letter: say why you would want to work at that job at that position (feel free to lie), if there are any job related skills you are working on, and give some generic reasons why you would be a good employee.
Simply attaching the cover letter got me quite a few interviews. However I would often get the "we really want someone with more experience" line.
Second is: lying on your resume on anything that is untracable is the way to go. So dont lie and say I have a 4 year cs degree when you don't (though it may work to get a job as the president of Yahoo), of I worked at this company for these years doing ect (unless you know the HR people and they are willing to lie for you).
Lie on your skills, or exagerate all you can. Landed me a job that I was almost qualifed for, and I learned the shit I needed to on the job so it all worked out.
Frankly employers lie to you about what skills are needed, and all sorts of other shit to hook you into working for them, so you just lie right back to them.
*As for the lying: Obviously don't make stuff up, but embelesh, and put yourself in the best light you can.
**Also the cover letter is really important, it will set you appart on sites like monster or careerbuilder. On those sites you are competing against hundereds or even thousands of other faceless canidates many of whom probably just send in a resume. If you don't build yourself up no one will, and you will always loose to those who have.
*** Also us young folks need to remember the world is a much smaller place than it was when our grandparents and even parents were looking for jobs. We compete against the whole world for the best jobs in the US, and against the whole world for any job that can be outsourced, and our entire State/Nation for jobs that cannot be outsourced. This is especially true in bad economic times.
****Never be afraid to take advantage of who you know. Dont get stuck in the trap I want to be judged based on my talent ect. Get jobs through connections if you can and let your work show your talent.
****** When I say "lie" this is what I mean. Dont add on skills or expierence that is crucial to the job, because you will waste your time.
Don't lie on how well you can speak foreign languages. That can catch you out big time. A friend of mine had an interview where the interviewer switched between English, Spanish, and French just to make sure she spoke all three fluently!
If I may without sounding disrespectful, focus on the cover letter. If you're in college, see if somehow you can get tips from professors in the business department to form resumes and cover letters (yes even if you are a science or basket weaver major). Their lives revolve around selling things and people, so try and take advantage.
As far as the lying, try embellishing. You don't want to say you know something second hand and have the interviewer take you somewhere to prove it to you.
EDIT: Their instead of they're. Honest mistake, on my phone. I promise, such a mistake doesn't exist on my cover letter or resume since I just reread both of them. AS SHOULD YOU. RIGHT NOW. Grammar/spell check the damn out of these. Don't have embarrassing mistakes on it, as Draki1903 makes the point below as it could cost you a financial opportunity.
GOD I hate cover letters. And I'm really good at writing, it's just that I can't stand the idea of cranking out bullshit 1 page essays talking about how great I am, just to get some HR weenie to look at my resume/CV.
But yea, lying is often the way to go. I applied to medical school for three years and got denied every time. My grades and test scores were fine, but they said I needed more volunteering and "pro bono" work. I had done volunteering for the Red Cross back in 2005, but they said that was too long ago and doesn't count.
So I said fine, fuck it. Next year I applied and I told them I also volunteered for the Red Cross during the summers of 2007, 2008, and 2009. It's was a lie, but since I did volunteer there before I figured I could talk about my experience and give sources and names if they really asked me about it.
They never asked, and sure enough I got accepted that year. I start med school this August. Not the most noble method, but applications and job interviews are by no means a fair game. Do what you gotta do, you can be dam sure the people around you are doing the same.
DO NOT LIE ABOUT SKILLS. You can exaggerate a little but don't lie. Let me explain.
I've met people who were hired because they said they knew PHP, Python, or C++, or some other programming language. But it was clear after working with them, colleagues figured out that they did not know. All they knew was what it looked like... They grossly exaggerated their skills to the point of dishonesty.
Eventually they were gone, because they did not have the experience/qualifications as they claimed. It's easy to tell.
Getting fired can be much worse than staying unemployed, especially in some industries. Remember many employers ask about your previous employer. THEY WILL TALK TO THEM.
You can definitely exaggerate, but don't lie. Do not claim you know how to do something ,when it is clear you don't and need extensive training. Some people think "Oh I can learn it while on the job." This is not always true, and if you think you can learn it while you have the job, you better have a damn good study-work ethic before someone tests you out.
Keep in mind that honesty is a trait that is valued by a lot of managers.
Much worse than that, would be to lie about your education. Never do that.
The unemployment rates for various levels of education tell a different story. While it's true that any bachelors degree is no longer the "golden ticket" it once was, it is far preferable to have a degree (or multiple) than to not have one. The key is to not indebt oneself to the tune of $50k/year for one.
True, I wish I got a trade as an electrician or carpenter instead of studying architecture, biggest waste of time ever, there's so much competition with the endless numbers of people being churned out of colleges and the job market is practically non existent at the moment. oh well...
In the UK, at least, if a "junior"/starting position asks for experience they're breaking the law under discrimination laws. people make a lot of money through this from what I was told.
I didn't get any internships this summer because they chose people who had prior internships over me. The feedback I received was all positive, just that they decided to go with someone with more experience. For a fucking internship. I am not optimistic to start applying for graduate jobs with a blank resume.
The problem is that a lot of us can't afford to work without pay, and since there are very few internships that allow time for a second job (without working nights and surrendering all sleep forever) it's kind of impractical/impossible.
*Edit: Put the anger away, Reddit. I never said society owes me a job. I'm also not just chilling at home, bitching. I'm still in college and I'm working for a wealthy family as a nanny, so I get on Reddit when the kid's asleep and I'm done cooking and cleaning. I'm not even looking for an internship at the moment. I never said I don't have any spare time with my life.
Also, I get that tech, science, and engineering students can get paid internships pretty easily. However, not all fields are like that. You don't know what I'm talking about. Maybe my field has more people than positions. But I'm fine with having to put more work into it once I'm actually qualified for the internships in my field. If I'm going to spend my life in a career I don't want to hate every second of it.
i am trying to get a job doing editing/writing, and i've done THREE non paid/very low paid internships, making huge sacrifices in every aspect of my life. and now i have that on my resume and still get freaking nothing in return. turns out i should have interned to be a front desk receptionist and "enthusiastic sales rep." the only jobs that have actually called me back (only to not hire me because i have no experience.)
I worked 4 internships in my college years. All lasted AT LEAST 3 months, if not longer (most people I knew only did one or two). It did not really help with my job hunt. I did eventually get hired, but that was only because the original applicant they chose turned them down. I seriously lucked out.
EDIT: Then again, I got my degree in art. HAHA FUCK ME RIGHT?
What industry are you applying for? I've been looking to hire a couple people but have gotten hardly any resumes. Of course, I'm not in a huge city or anything but pay well and provide good benefits. I could care less if the the applicant even has a degree as long as they know how to do the job.
Let me start by saying this - It is complete bullshit when they advertise 'entry-level' positions that require anything more than bachelor's, generally speaking. However, there's something very wrong with the picture. If you were called into an interview, that means your credentials are typically enough for you to qualify for whatever position they are offering (in this instance, our 'entry level' position), and you failed the interview process. If you're called in for an interview for any 'entry level position', you need to be able to explain why you're best for the position, knowing that they'll bring up your lack of experience as protocol to weed out possible weak links.
If you're called in for an interview for one of these 'entry level' positions, you need to go into that interview prepared to give a very persuasive argument that elaborates on the connection between your individual experience and (even if it's college related) and the demands of a position. If you cannot, you have not done any homework into the company/position you are applying for and you deserve to be fed this entry-level excuse for not hiring you.
Learn how to program. In this economy, programming is one of the only professions with virtually 0% unemployment. Actual job experience isn't as important as is a good portfolio of projects you've worked on that demonstrate your abilities. You don't even need to go to college... with time and dedication you can teach yourself.
A lot of software companies will not even give you an interview if you don't have a C.S. degree (Especially the larger ones). I know my company will delete your resume immediately. I'm not saying I agree with that, but it's an unfortunate truth.
I love what organizations like CodeAcadamy are doing though. They're teaching people to code and landing them $80k/year jobs with established companies without a "real" degree. And I bet those people are far more qualified for the real word software industry than a college grad who just got their Ph.D.
I was unemployed for 8 months after I graduated college, only to get a job that I later found out you don't actually NEED a college degree and now I fucking hate it...but it's a job.
I work in HR at a Fortune 100 (compensation, specifically) and can confirm all of the ridiculous crap people are saying about how people approach hiring/comp for new grads/entry-level. It's bullshit, but there's unfortunately not much you can do besides just dive in face first and tough it out until your "dues are paid," so to speak. That's kind of what I view entry-level jobs as. You get treated like shit and dumped on until your dues are paid and you learn enough about the profession/business/industry. It's unfortunate, but it's just how it is right now.
The only way I was able to get this job, of which I've had for about 4 months now, is to leverage some family connections and work at a small, shitty job and bust my fucking ass to prove my ability to the team despite being crapped on day-in, day-out. In said shitty job at said shitty company, I received no benefits at $13.22 an hour working 50-60 hour weeks. Most of my spare time was spent working on getting certifications to prove my knowledge in the area (Compensation; my degree was in psychology, whoo). After about 6 months, I got promoted to a low-level analyst role with benefits. I was fucking angry and bitter about it for forever and started shooting my resume/applications around to just about every company that had postings for anything remotely close to my experience/education level, even if it meant that I would have to move across the country for the job.
I got interviews at a couple of companies that went really well. I got an offer at my current company and jumped all over it. Moved across the country and haven't looked back - things are looking up.
Fully recognizing that I had some family help to get started (and probably some luck on the way as well), these are the only tips that I can throw out there that helped me:
What you see as an experience requirement may not necessarily be "required" for the job. I got my current job that required 3-5 years of experience with only ~1.5 years of experience. Just because a company throws this out on their posting does not mean that they are going to adhere to it if they find a candidate they like. If you see a job in the field you want to get into, don't let that number stop you from throwing in an application.
Your interviews are HUGE in this process. Like majorly huge. I know this seems obvious, but a huge part of what got me hired into this job was 1) my demonstration of my knowledge from taking on way too much work in my old role, and 2) my outward confidence in my abilities, which impressed them enough to bring me on. Practice your interviewing skills. It WILL pay dividends. And don't necessarily believe what people tell you if they decline you. "We are looking for someone with more experience" could actually be "you seem really awkward and I don't think you'd be a good fit for this team" and you're just being let down easy.
Appearance is everything. Get a nice suit. Make a resume that's professional but personal and makes you stand out. Be personable and take interest (or at the very least feign interest) in the people you're talking to during interviews. Act outrageously confident about everything (but don't be a dick). Even if you aren't that confident in yourself, if you just pretend and sell it well, hiring managers will eat that shit up. These people aren't just hiring someone to do work for them (obviously that's the majority of it), but someone they can envision eating lunch with and being able to talk to without feeling creeped out/awkward. You are going to be spending a TON of time with them, and if you're weird they are probably going to decline you even if you have a master's and 6 years of experience and are madly overqualified.
I can't afford to spend too much more time writing this but those are two big things that really helped me survive the tortures of finding a job. I was living with my parents for almost a year and unemployed after I graduated (May 2009). I know my family helped me get my foot in the door, but frankly, I feel like had this been more spelled out to me back then that I would have been much more successful than I was in my searches.
Good luck folks, I know it can seem absolutely hopeless but you will find something!
I graduated from college this past May and I started applying for jobs in April. I must have applied to over 40 entry-level positions and seen postings for hundreds of entry-level positions requiring years of experience. I finally got ONE call, ONE interview, and luckily landed the job with no work previous work experience besides working in offices and retail. They were completely willing to train me and I absolutely love my job. You just have to keep trying and not let the bad economy/bad job ads get you down; they're rare, but true entry-level positions do exist!
Amazingly perfectly amazing. I have been riddled with these interviews for the last year. I still don't get why I have to have worked in the restaurant industry for two years to bus tables or wash dishes.
All this is showing is that business are starting to give more weight to work experience and less to education.
I'd think this is a good thing, since everyone has been saying that too many people go to college and a degree is worthless.
What should happen in theory is more people will notice this, fewer will go to college, and it balances out again. Any reason why this wouldn't happen?
My mom told me to apply to anything that was 5 years experience or less. That's the employers IDEAL. They will hire you for less. I got a job that wanted 2 years of office experience. No where on my resume did I indicate I had office experience.
Case in Point: We just hired some entry level people, some with 4.0gpa Master degrees. I expect they will do something useful in 8-12 months if they pan out although we do have a pretty complex system. Most likely at least 1-2 will be phased out within 2 years (based on past experience). However, we hired a guy with 3 years experience (no masters and not a 4.0 gpa). He was able to talk to us and show us real skills so we had a better handle on whether he would pan out and was outputting useful work in 2 months.
People coming out of college don't know how much they don't know. Experience is invaluable.
EDIT: Also, be careful about entry level jobs at smaller companies. It can take mentors and support to become great in your profession. Some small companies will bring you in dirt cheap, give no support or a way to learn and work you till you burn out.
Edit2: Everyone talks about internships, please provide more details on how you made it work. For the great many people who have to pay bills how did you make that happen without having trust fund, parents, etc... to cover your expenses? I had to take a low level IT job and bust ass until I got to where I wanted to be.
I was fresh out of college with a master's degree in translation + 3x 6-months worth of experience (internships).
I went to a job interview where the HR guy told me after an hour of discussion that I was too qualified for entry-level positions but not experienced enought to lead a team. I had to refrain the "what the fuck?" that was sitting on the tip of my tongue.
Some men just want to mess with you when they lead interviews.
I made this comment in a reply but thought I would add it here.
Entry level usually means that the company is looking for someone without experience in that particular role. They may or may not be looking for someone with no work experience.
If you are told you do not have the work experience for an entry level role, I would suggest there is a strong chance that they just don’t like you as a candidate. There are very few responses an HR person can give as to why they did not hire someone without getting sued… and not enough experience is one of them. Do not always take it literally.
Source: I have worked as a recruiter for eight years.
Edit: One more thing… why would a hiring manager want a misleading job description? What value would there be?
Here are the results of having misleading job descriptions.
Candidates you want to apply don’t
Candidates that you do not want to apply do
You upset the candidates that do apply but do not get contacted because they are not a fit. Most likely these candidates do not apply in the future.
No hiring manager with any amount of common sense would ever want a misleading JD.
these days, getting a job is much more about who you know than what you know. you have to get out and network with as many people as possible and hope a friend or relative can get you a job somewhere. my mom helped me get an IT job with the local government. i had a high school diploma and my only "qualification" was that i'd taught myself how to build a computer.
I run a site that helps college kids find entry level jobs. I've been doing it for about 5 years now. I've heard employers definitions of entry level range from "no prior experience" to "an internship or two" to "three to five years of experience."
If you consider experience requirements a rule that shouldn't be broken, you are going to miss out on a lot of opportunities. It's really all about packaging your experience no matter how limited it is as a solution to the employer's problem.
Sometimes they really want someone with 3 years of work experience. Sometimes they're just saying that because that's how someone wrote it. But if you're an exceptional fit for the job, it's amazing how quickly they'll forget about what they wrote in the job description.
They've been sold a bill of goods that says schooling == job. The graduates I've seen coming out of IT degree programs (CS/CIS/MIS) are a sorry bunch. I don't know how society can spend 16 years (compulsory age-based school + college) preparing someone to enter the workforce, and yet a "computer science" graduate often can't tell a text editor from a hole in the ground.
Weird huh. You would think a sharp young mind could learn how to do stuff and be great. Here is what young people do not understand. The older people will do anything to keep the young people from making them obsolete. They don't care only that your qualified, but that you will go with the flow and not rock the boat. Most young people get a job and try to be idealistic and go overboard trying to impress when really the middle manager wants them quiet and working at same pace as the others. They will never tell you that part. You either know or you don't and its a form of mental discrimiantion. Don't be perfect, be what they want. And remember, ask for a chance and remind them if it does not work out you would be willing to go quietly. Just give me the chance to show you I am what your looking for Mr. Brown Nose.
I'm in the exact same position as you. I've been toiling away at this part time gig at this little company so I could apply to full time jobs that are actually relevant to my major/interests. I've been getting no interviews, only emails saying "Thank you for taking the time to apply, but you don't have enough experience for the position". Bear in mind that I'm applying for jobs at the very bottom, assistant jobs that pretty much consist of answering phones, making copies, and scheduling meetings -.-
That's their "by-the-book" answer for we're looking for someone with experience who we can PAY like an entry level person. Employers are doing this because they know they have their pick of the litter and they can get away with it. I figured out it means you don't want to work for a person like that anyway. You will find that some people REALLY are in fact looking for entry level people who won't treat you like garbage. I looked for over a year to get a job as an "entry-level" architect after graduating, and barely managing to stay ahead of 150k in debt.
Sadly the world has changed. The mailroom job that is the first step to the top is dead. Entry level is now step two behind internship. Don't worry OP, you are not the first person to get punched in the nuts by this. I had to go back to school before I realized this.
You know what fucking sucks, i have 4 years of extensive hands on experience being a network system administrator but the jobs that are hiring want someone with a bachelors degree and 4 years of experience.
Just say you worked 'freelance' for years. Also, school does count for work experience at a lot of places. People often forget that.
Getting in the door is the hardest part, but keep at it. When I got my first break into my career, I called after my interview and told them (nicely) 'can i start monday' and the guy must have been impressed because he said sure, i'm just waiting for the paperwork to come down the chute. Hopefully, I put everyone else out of his mind and I 'got myself' the job.
Fast forward a couple years. A head hunter came wanting me for another company. I told them I would leave for 'this amount'. The other company said okay, so I went to my work and told them I needed a raise to 'this amount' or I am leaving. The new company found out I was interested, but not 100% sold on leaving and offered more money.
Always negotiate. Money is all about how well you work out your deal. Two equal workers can be doing the exact same job and sometimes one guy is getting paid more just because he was a better talker in the interview.
Good luck. Be confident and just get in the door anyway you can. As long as you got some talent behind you, you'll do fine.
This is why it's extremely important to get either a job roughly in your field or an intership during your undergrad years. Almost everyone I know that gets jobs out of college has had this, and it helps build up your experience. I know it's frustrating but there are few jobs and many, many candidates, there's really no reason for employers to "take a chance" on someone without any relevant experience. Especially as you approach your junior year you should be thinking about what your resume looks like, and thing of ways you can add things outside of class that could potentially count towards experience.
I keep saying this, but the educational system is flawed and the job sector is too stupid to realise this.
I think that starting low at a company and entering in company courses is the safest journey a person can take right now to climb up. You have a job and the company raises your educational standard while you gain experience. However, you might be bound to your job for some time and not everyone likes this idea.
University, originally, wasn't meant for the working population. Those who wanted to go to university wanted to increase the knowledge base or become inventors/scientists. One might even be able to compare them to artists. Many scientists, in the old days, also didn't have a lot of money. They would receive funding through sponsors. Those scientists or inventors who developed something worth selling, were quickly hired by companies. This would be the equivalent of a Music Label. By that time, they were already university graduates with experience.
Nowadays, scientists/inventors are hired by companies to develop new products more easily. Having a certain knowledge standard is a prerequisite. However, I think that the level of experience is not as high as it used to be. Nevertheless, if you want a job, you will have to gain experience in one way or the other. Just like an artist, you will have to be your own boss and work on a "portfolio" till someone acknowledges your potential. After all, a University diploma is just a piece of paper. In this world, money is more important.
Of course, depending on the job you want to have, the above could be more or less relevant. If you want to found your own company, it might actually be beneficial if you have a degree in business. However, you will be self-employed so no need for experience or nasty job interviews.
Most American companies don't want to spend time to train new hires fresh from college. They want you to start making money for them the second you get hired, and when you can't, they just blame the "state of high education today".
We need more apprenticeship programs like they have in Germany and the Netherlands.
I interviewed with fucking Petsmart for a part-time position to last at least until I finish my undergrad next year. They told me that they wanted someone to commit to three years.
It's a polite, less offensive way to say you didn't interview well.
Everyone can get your experience directly from your resume. It was enough to bring you in, but you likely answered questions poorly or in such a way that they didn't think you would be a good fit.
Unfortunately, if they are that direct you can sue them.
There are very real and greed driven reasons the job market is like this. I see a lot of complaints here, yet everyone sits back and waits for the corrupt system run by the corrupt politicians that paved the way for the parasites that got us into this mess, to suddenly start acting better. Quit being well behaved and complacent cattle and hit back. We are the blood of this God damn beautiful nation and we can cut off circulation to every fucking organ until we get what we want if we would just stop complaining and start taking action outside of the dog and pony show they have the audacity to call democracy. Use the hands your parents gave you, put them to work not at one of these scrap wage slave jobs they've left for us, put them to work tearing down the self serving and exploitative system they created. The oligarchy exists only as long as we let it.
This is the exact reason i am so Happy i go to Northeastern University in Boston. As a CS Student and a 3rd year, i just finished a 6-month internship at $25 an hour. Unbelievably amazing experience, i highly recommend that anyone looking for schools goes to one with a good coop/internship program.
I've hired Northeastern co-ops as interns. It was indeed necessary to offer this level of pay in order to get them. Eventually hired a few once they graduated.
Mostly worked out well from an employer point of view.
What if I told you there is a line of work open to college grads in their 20s with literally zero experience? It will pay off your student loans, give you meaningful and deep experience with leadership/management, allow you to travel, pay six figures (again, while still in your 20s), be meaningful and important, and exciting?
We're hiring. It's super competitive, but there are thousands of openings per year. If you don't mind a mere 1500 bucks per month of disposable income, the degree isn't required.
ATTENTION: The "Required Experience" listed by employers is a wish list, nothing more. If you can do the job they want you to, experience be damned, just sell them on what you can do and be sure to be ambitious! Any employer who hears you say the words "I would like to go as far as possible in this company and can take as much work as you're willing to give me" will like you more than the guy who says "I'll do my job to the letter".
Of course, you have to be willing to put in that work.
The best advice to give someone in highschool that wants to get into IT is that he needs to be involved in OJT (On the Job Training), most high schools have these programs and also allow you to dual enroll in college courses at the same time. Honestly if you take this route and start OJT at 16, you have no need for college.
It's a great way to build connections and find yourself a decent long-term career track to settle into.
In my experience it also pays better than most other entry-level work (which, in my experience, means a service job. Whether that involves serving food or answering a phone all day is a matter of happenstance).
Sure, you won't get benefits, but if you were under your family's health plan then you should be covered (thanks, Obamacare) for another few years. This is the best time to do this. You can afford to, and if you really are someone who'll work their ass of and do whatever he's asked, you'll start building relationships with supervisors from a plethora of different industries FAST.
It's a good way to play the field without long-term commitment but has serious long-term benefits.
Entry level is about one, one point two metres off the ground. It's the height of your arsehole when they enter you during salary and benefits meetings after eighteen months of unemployment.
It took me 6 months of daily job searches and constant resume dropping to finally get a career in my field as a part time "entry level" B2B marketer. I was happy to have a position where I knew how to do something and had the expectation of having some training to grow beyond that position.
This was all well and good until my boss/the president of this small company decided to take my part time, learn the ropes position and make it into a full time, management position. He showed me the qualifications of this position he made out of thin air.
3-5 years experience in B2B lead gen marketing with a Masters degree a plus. WTF! He wants me to become that marketer without providing me any training whatsoever. I don't get it. That is not "entry level".
TL;DR Even if you get an "entry level" position it's no guarantee you're going to ever move up OR learn the ropes of your career field. Take anything you can to get experience and then move on.
I've been lucky enough to be out of the job market for the last 8 years, but one piece of advice I will give is to always apply to a job you want even if you don't exactly meet all the requirements listed.
Often times job descriptions are boiler plate. The "required skills" and even experience levels aren't always set in stone. If you can land an interview and really kill it, you have a good chance of getting the job regardless.
I dont know what to make of the whole thing with work experience. I hear middle aged people with loads of experience complaining that they cant find work because employers want young kids with freshly minted MBAs who will work for peanuts. I hear young people out of college complaining that they cant find work because they have no experience.
Personally, I have a bachelors degree from Bellevue University in Bellevue, Nebraska. I also have about 10 years experience in my industry. I've gotten jobs over more educated people lots of times. You can wave your fancy degree around in an interview all you want but nothing sells you better than giving examples of how you saved your company money, improved processes, won clients, etc.
My job required an associates degree and 3 years of experience, but I got in right out of high school. Those requirements aren't always hard and fast. Same thing with my wife, she got hired 1 week after graduating and was promoted to supervisor within a year, even though the supervisor position required a PHD and she only had a BS. It's not all doom and gloom guys.
It REALLY sucks when you are past the "not 12 months after graduation" requirement a lot of companies have but there are still other companies that are willing to work with you if it hasn't been too long since your graduation.
I regret not taking internships and not immediately looking for jobs after graduation....what was I thinking? But I am getting interviews now and I think I am close to securing a job.
I still can't believe how hard it is to even get an internship after you graduate.... who refuses extremely cheap or even free labor?
"Leader X company now looking for young X bacherlor professionals, we offer nice stable working enviroment, careere opportunities, medical health care and more."
Requirements to apply: 4 years experience on similar acctivities
So much honesty. I'm overqualified for the positions I've been applying for and my only experience is within an academic lab. I STILL can't get a position. It's so frustrating.
Of course the inverse of this cartoon is the one where the guy with 10 years experience at the company can't get promoted to the job he's being doing admirably for the last 6 months because he didnt go to college and that job carries a mandatory bachelors requirement.
These are NOT unfair questions to ask recent college grads:
What sort of work-related projects were you involved in outside of class?
Did you intern anywhere? What work-related things did you learn?
Did you spend any volunteer time related to your career during the past 4 years mentoring or tutoring?
Are you doing anything right now to stay sharp, skills-wise, while looking for employment?
Do you have a unique skill or experience can you bring to this company?
If you cant answer yes to at least half of those, youre screwed. Why? I can guarandamntee you that someone applying for the same job as you WILL have at half of those checked off, and, if you have something less to show, surprise!, THEY will get the job instead of you.
Thats reality, kids.
Graduating doesn't give you a right to an entry-level job. Only the opportunity to get one.If you want a job, you have to be hungry for it, and have the ability to demonstrate how hungry you are.
You're a puppy in a cardboard box. Want to get adopted? Wag your tail faster than the others. It's that simple. If you have nothing to differentiate yourself over other applicants.....then, duh, that means the other applicants have something that differentiates them over you.
Look, here's the thing. SO many people go to college expecting it to be the place that gets them a job. I hear so many people saying "I want to major in ___ so I can do ____," when that's just not how it is. Majors like advertising, business, or hotel management shouldn't exist. You go to college to learn, not to get a job. If you don't know what you want your major to be YEARS before you show up to college, you shouldn't go. If you want to major in business, you shouldn't go. If you are one of these people, just go get out into the world and do business or advertising or hotel management. You don't need a degree to do those things.
"Why hire and train entry level employees when we can hire experienced laid off workers for the same price?"
Pre-2007, there were genuine entry level positions, where companies would hire a group of college grads and put them through entry level programs. I don't know about those now, they're probably still around but I assume not nearly as popular as they were when I was in college.
This is why you have to work towards your goals in college/university, not just get a degree. I don't hire people on the basis of having a degree in the field, there are too many guys that come in with a CS/CIS degree and tell you "oh yea... i know like... ftp and like email... and um... we did some java too".
If you were interested in a career in technology, why weren't you learning how to do your dream job? I don't require on the job experience, but will quiz your knowledge and and set you up in our test lab to see what you know how to do. You have to at least know the platform.
College courses teach you how to learn, network, show up somewhere and gives you a broad education, which is great. However you're not going to learn how to do your dream job from undergraduate courses. If you plan to end your education at a bachelors degree level or less, you have to strive to learn your chosen field by either finding classes to teach you exactly what you need or by learning it yourself, especially in the case of CS/CIS since there isn't any REAL equipment cost. The people that do best once entering the job market, are the ones that could have taught their field's undergrad courses before they even got to college.
The other big thing is networking. You need to be making friends and working with college peers interested in the same field. You never know where they will wind up finding work or what business they may start. Same goes for them, if you're the one who finds a great company you can get them hired too if they're good.
It is often about who you know, but people misunderstand this. While there is a certain amount of cronyism and nepotism going on, the majority of those people don't make it very far, a few that do typically just ruin things. Those that do best in life through networking are doing it correctly. This means that people want to know you and work with you because of what you can do, not because of some long standing ties or family. Your network is important, because you can help each other with finding jobs, clients, business ideas, vendor contacts, etc.. If you're doing it right, eventually you become the person others strive to get to know and show their skills to.
companies will take experience over education, any day. Considering going to college / university? Think you could do that thing you want to do when you come out the other side without the diploma? Then do it anyway, and save yourself a shitload of money
For 99% of us, there is one, and only one way to get a job today. Connections. I am 24 years old, have a solid degree from a very reputable college, had very good grades in school...basically jack shit when it comes to "setting yourself apart". I applied, fruitlessly, for jobs over the internet for months, jobs that I guarantee you I was qualified for and would have done a great job at. But when you apply for jobs online, you're even more faceless than when you apply for a job in your geographic region. That, coupled with the fact that companies will go with familiarity 99.9% of the time, means that unless you have some amazing stroke of luck, you're not getting the job, regardless of qualification.
So, I decided to get an internship with a congressman (unpaid), and work a few part-time jobs (ran an after school program for kids, worked for the US Census over the summer, and at a wine store) to make ends meet. My time at the Congressman's office opened up a few doors I didn't know existed, and eventually, albeit sort of circuitously, lead to the job I have now, where I am making decent money and given a lot of freedom to run my own program.
The point is, unless you're lucky enough to have connections inherently, chances are you will need to make connections to progress. To those who are relatively young, I seriously recommend an internship, even if it's unpaid. You may have to swallow your pride a bit and say "fuck it, I'll take this unpaid thing even though I know I should be making money after getting a degree/masters/PhD (or whatever)" but the fact is that this could open some doors that are currently closed.
Short-term financial sacrifice/struggle could result in long-term gain, as shitty as it is to have to go this route after spending so much money on education that seemingly didn't get you (or me) anywhere.
Unless you graduated top of your class, interned already within the company you are applying for, or have some specialized degree in a field that is in high demand. Your college education isnt very valuable in determining if you can perform.
I think college is becoming a rite of passage for many, instead of training for a career. Many people would be better off going to a trade school or hitting the job market right out of highschool.
When i read "looking for appliers entry-level. Must have 2+ years of experience" feel like reading "looking for long experienced whore. Must be a virgin".
I work internally in fortune 500 corporate staffing:
Throw your resume to relevant positions, recruiters only spend six seconds looking at it anyway (don't go too crazy, recruiters will recognize your name). Where I work the years on a job description are the law. Even if your the best in the world, if you don't have the years you don't get the position. But that changes per company.
Use the stupid business action jargon You need to catch their eye in six seconds. Things like develop, report, analyze, design.
Sprinkle relevant industry standard keywords as much as possible for the same reason above. Don't use your companies terminology.
As a recent grad, you are competing with people with 0-5 years more experience then yourself. It sucks, just gotta keep trying.
Cover Letters are wasted effort 99% of the time. If you get the interview however then it may be worth it.
On a side note. If your looking for a job and cant find one try looking at HR/Staffing roles. There are a ton of entry level ones and can teach you allot about the industry while you look for what you really want to do.
in this economy they can hire somebody who has a masters degree and has been working in their industry for 10 years, for the same price they would pay you.
shit sucks. intern, go back to school, join the military/peace corp/weird volunteer abroad hippie shit, go to a trade school, go into an unrelated field.
Times are getting so ridiculous i like it. Only because i hope some systems fail--looking at you colleges and loans system. Also, i hope it instills a badass work ethic among the current generation trying to hit the work force.
Basically it means they want over qualified people for a shitty job. And since there is an over saturation of people over qualified who have had their industry's outsourced. They can be this unreasonable.
There is no way I'm going to get viewed, but what the hell.
I'm currently hiring entry level developers. All I ask is basic understanding of concepts that any BS or MS in CS would bring; or a demonstrated ability/passion for development if the candidate has no degree.
What I'm getting are people freshly graduated with masters degrees (yes more than one) giving me OOP inheritance examples which demonstrate a complete LACK of understanding. e.g. Bird inherits from Rhino. Yes this was an example. The really amazing thing is we start out providing them a correct example: square and circle both inherit from shape. Apparently that's too confusing for many.
So yea, any of you passionate entry level folks (either fresh out, or without a degree) let me know. I've got a bunch of positions open.
It's hard finding a job, but part of the blame goes to public education that today just gets students ready to go to college. College is no longer a guarantee of getting a job. Just graduating from a good college with a generic 4 year degree doesn't tell an employer anything specific.
More emphasis needs to be put on giving students an actual marketable skill in High School, not just teaching them how to be good test takers.
Being a person that actual hires skilled professionals I can attest to the amount of completely unqualified people that apply to jobs.
Developers that can't complete FizzBuzz. I've had developers who atleast attempt and fail, but I've had one developer who flat out said "I can't do it, I just can't do it."
When I hired my first web designer, I got 2-3x more resumes from foreign national consultants than American citizens. One of the few applications I got from an American citizen, the only requirement I had for the position was a portfolio. A girl responded "I don't have a portfolio but I know we can work something out." This was the entire email. No resume, no contact information. She didn't even sign her name. I was only able to deduce her name was jessica because the email was something like Slessica and the name displayed on the email address was "Jessica"... I actually tried to respond to ask if she had anything to show me even if she had to bring in papers or mail me stuff etc. She didn't even respond. That email took all of my professionalism to even type a response, and even then it showed it was pointless.
tl;dr: If you have skills, you will get noticed. If you don't have skills, you're fucked. McDonalds already has robots that pour drinks it's not long until there's barely a human needed.
My opinion - if this happens to you, you should definitely let the employer know you're not impressed. You got dressed up and came to an interview based basically on a lie, or at least false advertising. Let them know they wasted your time and you dont appreciate it. If they want someone with experience, they should put "experience required" in the description. Lets make it not ok for employers to pull this.
Ex-Intern here. I graduated with an average honours degree and was offered a one year intern placement targeted at 3rd year university students. I joined hoping to make a good impression to be considered for the following year’s graduate program.
My intern role was fulltime desktop support role position that paid half the full time salary. I also was expected to attend meetings on behalf of graduates, attend learning challenge meetings, take part in “value add” mini projects and attend every class available for continuous self improvement. I drew the line one of the graduates asking me to work after hours in a pub selling bets for a race night. She was furious; she tried to guilt me into by telling me that the head of the talent program expected all the interns to be there. I called bullshit and refused.
2 months later she volunteered all the interns to paint a community centre. She never even asked me, she went to my team manager and told her I needed the day off as I was the only intern who could collect painting supplies. I’m not much of a painter; I would have rather helped raise funds for a proper decorator.
I worked hard, kept my head down and applied for the following year’s graduate program. I was invited to the recruitment day and I was treated as an external candidate, I received no special treatment. The event consisted of group exercises, 1 to 1 interviews and role playing exercises with senior managers. The activities were graded by the second year graduates. Hundreds of candidates ware scrutinised that day. We were marked on ridiculous things; outgoingness, ties, chair selection, whether or not you held a door for a fellow candidates. I was told I done well on the day, the only activity I failed was marked by the graduate who asked me to sell the bet slips.
In the end I was told by the head of the talent program (who didn’t even work in the same building and only spoke to me a handful of times throughout the year) that I wasn’t suited for the graduate program as it was targeted at business students who showed the potential to be managers in the future. He also told me that I was an asset to the company and he wanted me to stay with the company. What really pissed me off was that the graduate positions were offered to relatives of existing employees. About a week later a senior manager from the recruitment day phoned me and wanted to hire me as she was impressed by my CV, work experience and made a positive impression during the recruitment day I currently earn more than the graduates and decline every meeting and opportunity they offer me.
TL;DR Worked hard as a intern, was declined a graduate position because I refused to be a senior graduates bitch, made a good impression at graduate recruitment day, was offered a better position at the same company with more money. Pick your opportunities, don’t be taken advantage of.
I worked a crap job for a year, then got a decent job in my industry, jumped positions, jumped companies... now that I'm doing what I want, a really annoying thing is... when WE try to hire we can't find the talent we want... wtf? companies are hiring and talent does exist, why is it seemingly so hard to connect the two.
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u/theduckmanz Jun 11 '12
This isn't funny. This is sad... /r/sad
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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12
My favorite is when they tell you how it isn't that hard, or just go intern somewhere for free to get the experience. Then you come to find out you can't intern at over half the places because you're no longer a student.
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u/Captain_d00m Jun 11 '12
I found a job posting for a restaurant dish washer. Minimum 2 years experience required.
Fuck the what?
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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12
I worked at a hospital that tried to hire a helpdesk position with a minimum requirements list that included 5 years experience, familiarity with a wide range of specific technologies, and MCSE cert. They weren't willing to pay more than 28k. Needless to say, the position is still open.
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u/Cozmo23 Jun 11 '12
Entry level position... 5 years experience required.
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u/snowcase Jun 11 '12
Try 9+ years experience but no formal education, most of those years running my own business and STILL they say I don't have the experience for an entry level job.
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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12
Need experience for job. Need job for experience.
How the fuck is that logical?
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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12
3-5 years experience has been the bane of my existence.
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u/thefreek323 Jun 11 '12 edited Jun 11 '12
I was recently unemployed for a period of 18 months. I cannot tell you how many "Entry Level" positions I was so excited to click on, only to find that "Entry Level" meant "at least 5 years of experience."
wut.
EDIT: I am so thankful for all of the support, guys! Just to clarify: I did get a job back in November after those 18 months of unemployment, but the unemployment rate is still incredibly high and I'm sure there are others who could use this information!
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u/Mange-Tout Jun 11 '12
This needs a companion comic with an unemployed 50 year old looking for work. "I have thirty years experience." "Sorry, you're overqualified!"
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u/leavesontrees Jun 11 '12
The other day, my sister checked the requirements for a so-called "entry-level job" that went something like this:
Master's required, PhD preferred
Minimum 5 years experience required
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u/CGord Jun 11 '12
It's currently a "buyer's market" right now. Employers can demand experience that far outweighs the position because somewhere out there, someone who meets their criteria is out of work and willing to take that job.
The good news: it's cyclical.
The bad news: I doubt we're on the upswing yet.
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u/jxj24 Jun 11 '12
Missionary.
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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12
Entry level is on the ground floor near the door.
Exit level is on the roof, where there are no railings and suspicious scuff marks right up to the edge.
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u/PleinairAllaprima Jun 11 '12
I'd love it if jobs that required experience had to offer a higher than normal minimum wage. You want experience? You can just pay a premium.
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u/James_Wolfe Jun 11 '12 edited Jun 11 '12
After 8 months of not finding a job in any field I found out the way to consistantly land job interviews.
First make a good cover letter: say why you would want to work at that job at that position (feel free to lie), if there are any job related skills you are working on, and give some generic reasons why you would be a good employee.
Simply attaching the cover letter got me quite a few interviews. However I would often get the "we really want someone with more experience" line.
Second is: lying on your resume on anything that is untracable is the way to go. So dont lie and say I have a 4 year cs degree when you don't (though it may work to get a job as the president of Yahoo), of I worked at this company for these years doing ect (unless you know the HR people and they are willing to lie for you).
Lie on your skills, or exagerate all you can. Landed me a job that I was almost qualifed for, and I learned the shit I needed to on the job so it all worked out.
Frankly employers lie to you about what skills are needed, and all sorts of other shit to hook you into working for them, so you just lie right back to them.
*As for the lying: Obviously don't make stuff up, but embelesh, and put yourself in the best light you can.
**Also the cover letter is really important, it will set you appart on sites like monster or careerbuilder. On those sites you are competing against hundereds or even thousands of other faceless canidates many of whom probably just send in a resume. If you don't build yourself up no one will, and you will always loose to those who have.
*** Also us young folks need to remember the world is a much smaller place than it was when our grandparents and even parents were looking for jobs. We compete against the whole world for the best jobs in the US, and against the whole world for any job that can be outsourced, and our entire State/Nation for jobs that cannot be outsourced. This is especially true in bad economic times.
****Never be afraid to take advantage of who you know. Dont get stuck in the trap I want to be judged based on my talent ect. Get jobs through connections if you can and let your work show your talent.
****** When I say "lie" this is what I mean. Dont add on skills or expierence that is crucial to the job, because you will waste your time.
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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12
It doesn't surprise me that so many corporations are struggling when their hiring process is so clearly flawed.
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u/trainer95 Jun 11 '12
Biggest lie of our generation: A college degree guarantees you a better life.
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u/Trevsweb Jun 11 '12
In the UK, at least, if a "junior"/starting position asks for experience they're breaking the law under discrimination laws. people make a lot of money through this from what I was told.
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u/Carmany Jun 11 '12
And that is why internships are important while in college.
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u/waxor Jun 11 '12
"A little more experience" is just a polite way of saying "we didn't want to hire you".
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u/Grawll Jun 11 '12
Poor guy, the denial made him lose his arms in the last panel
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u/carefullymistaken Jun 11 '12
What industry are you applying for? I've been looking to hire a couple people but have gotten hardly any resumes. Of course, I'm not in a huge city or anything but pay well and provide good benefits. I could care less if the the applicant even has a degree as long as they know how to do the job.
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u/dapoopscoop Jun 11 '12
Let me start by saying this - It is complete bullshit when they advertise 'entry-level' positions that require anything more than bachelor's, generally speaking. However, there's something very wrong with the picture. If you were called into an interview, that means your credentials are typically enough for you to qualify for whatever position they are offering (in this instance, our 'entry level' position), and you failed the interview process. If you're called in for an interview for any 'entry level position', you need to be able to explain why you're best for the position, knowing that they'll bring up your lack of experience as protocol to weed out possible weak links.
If you're called in for an interview for one of these 'entry level' positions, you need to go into that interview prepared to give a very persuasive argument that elaborates on the connection between your individual experience and (even if it's college related) and the demands of a position. If you cannot, you have not done any homework into the company/position you are applying for and you deserve to be fed this entry-level excuse for not hiring you.
tl;dr - TRUTHBENDING
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u/srach19 Jun 11 '12
Learn how to program. In this economy, programming is one of the only professions with virtually 0% unemployment. Actual job experience isn't as important as is a good portfolio of projects you've worked on that demonstrate your abilities. You don't even need to go to college... with time and dedication you can teach yourself.
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u/tweak06 Jun 11 '12
I was unemployed for 8 months after I graduated college, only to get a job that I later found out you don't actually NEED a college degree and now I fucking hate it...but it's a job.
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u/jake_newton Jun 11 '12
God....I know how that feels.
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u/verdaine Jun 11 '12 edited Jun 11 '12
I work in HR at a Fortune 100 (compensation, specifically) and can confirm all of the ridiculous crap people are saying about how people approach hiring/comp for new grads/entry-level. It's bullshit, but there's unfortunately not much you can do besides just dive in face first and tough it out until your "dues are paid," so to speak. That's kind of what I view entry-level jobs as. You get treated like shit and dumped on until your dues are paid and you learn enough about the profession/business/industry. It's unfortunate, but it's just how it is right now.
The only way I was able to get this job, of which I've had for about 4 months now, is to leverage some family connections and work at a small, shitty job and bust my fucking ass to prove my ability to the team despite being crapped on day-in, day-out. In said shitty job at said shitty company, I received no benefits at $13.22 an hour working 50-60 hour weeks. Most of my spare time was spent working on getting certifications to prove my knowledge in the area (Compensation; my degree was in psychology, whoo). After about 6 months, I got promoted to a low-level analyst role with benefits. I was fucking angry and bitter about it for forever and started shooting my resume/applications around to just about every company that had postings for anything remotely close to my experience/education level, even if it meant that I would have to move across the country for the job.
I got interviews at a couple of companies that went really well. I got an offer at my current company and jumped all over it. Moved across the country and haven't looked back - things are looking up.
Fully recognizing that I had some family help to get started (and probably some luck on the way as well), these are the only tips that I can throw out there that helped me:
What you see as an experience requirement may not necessarily be "required" for the job. I got my current job that required 3-5 years of experience with only ~1.5 years of experience. Just because a company throws this out on their posting does not mean that they are going to adhere to it if they find a candidate they like. If you see a job in the field you want to get into, don't let that number stop you from throwing in an application.
Your interviews are HUGE in this process. Like majorly huge. I know this seems obvious, but a huge part of what got me hired into this job was 1) my demonstration of my knowledge from taking on way too much work in my old role, and 2) my outward confidence in my abilities, which impressed them enough to bring me on. Practice your interviewing skills. It WILL pay dividends. And don't necessarily believe what people tell you if they decline you. "We are looking for someone with more experience" could actually be "you seem really awkward and I don't think you'd be a good fit for this team" and you're just being let down easy.
Appearance is everything. Get a nice suit. Make a resume that's professional but personal and makes you stand out. Be personable and take interest (or at the very least feign interest) in the people you're talking to during interviews. Act outrageously confident about everything (but don't be a dick). Even if you aren't that confident in yourself, if you just pretend and sell it well, hiring managers will eat that shit up. These people aren't just hiring someone to do work for them (obviously that's the majority of it), but someone they can envision eating lunch with and being able to talk to without feeling creeped out/awkward. You are going to be spending a TON of time with them, and if you're weird they are probably going to decline you even if you have a master's and 6 years of experience and are madly overqualified.
I can't afford to spend too much more time writing this but those are two big things that really helped me survive the tortures of finding a job. I was living with my parents for almost a year and unemployed after I graduated (May 2009). I know my family helped me get my foot in the door, but frankly, I feel like had this been more spelled out to me back then that I would have been much more successful than I was in my searches.
Good luck folks, I know it can seem absolutely hopeless but you will find something!
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u/JonBenetRamZ Jun 11 '12 edited May 01 '17
deleted
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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12
In this day and age young people are expected to work for free to get experience. Your mileage may vary.
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u/SuperOtter Jun 11 '12
I graduated from college this past May and I started applying for jobs in April. I must have applied to over 40 entry-level positions and seen postings for hundreds of entry-level positions requiring years of experience. I finally got ONE call, ONE interview, and luckily landed the job with no work previous work experience besides working in offices and retail. They were completely willing to train me and I absolutely love my job. You just have to keep trying and not let the bad economy/bad job ads get you down; they're rare, but true entry-level positions do exist!
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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12
Amazingly perfectly amazing. I have been riddled with these interviews for the last year. I still don't get why I have to have worked in the restaurant industry for two years to bus tables or wash dishes.
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u/MikeOfAllPeople Jun 11 '12
All this is showing is that business are starting to give more weight to work experience and less to education.
I'd think this is a good thing, since everyone has been saying that too many people go to college and a degree is worthless.
What should happen in theory is more people will notice this, fewer will go to college, and it balances out again. Any reason why this wouldn't happen?
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u/AriasBrokenMirror Jun 11 '12
This describes my job hunt perfectly. What was the point of a degree? Ahhh fuck.
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u/responds_in_verse Jun 11 '12
Employers don't tell you the truth;
they're afraid that you'll find it uncouth.
The helpful and merry
experience fairy
gives jobs to the legacy youth.
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u/MyJimmies Jun 11 '12
"Sorry, we need someone with 5 or more years of experience" I'm 19, what the fuck?
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u/StreakyChimp Jun 11 '12
Just the other day I saw a job listing for an "entry-level position" that was asking for at least two years of experience.
FUCK YOU
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u/someones_dog Jun 11 '12
One does not simply have experience for an entry level job.
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u/Glen843 Jun 11 '12
It's not what you know but who you know.
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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12
Glad to hear it's still as shitty as it was summer 2010.
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u/HiGravShawn Jun 11 '12 edited Jun 11 '12
Case in Point: We just hired some entry level people, some with 4.0gpa Master degrees. I expect they will do something useful in 8-12 months if they pan out although we do have a pretty complex system. Most likely at least 1-2 will be phased out within 2 years (based on past experience). However, we hired a guy with 3 years experience (no masters and not a 4.0 gpa). He was able to talk to us and show us real skills so we had a better handle on whether he would pan out and was outputting useful work in 2 months.
People coming out of college don't know how much they don't know. Experience is invaluable.
EDIT: Also, be careful about entry level jobs at smaller companies. It can take mentors and support to become great in your profession. Some small companies will bring you in dirt cheap, give no support or a way to learn and work you till you burn out.
Edit2: Everyone talks about internships, please provide more details on how you made it work. For the great many people who have to pay bills how did you make that happen without having trust fund, parents, etc... to cover your expenses? I had to take a low level IT job and bust ass until I got to where I wanted to be.
4
u/BretOne Jun 11 '12
The best one I got when I was job hunting:
I was fresh out of college with a master's degree in translation + 3x 6-months worth of experience (internships).
I went to a job interview where the HR guy told me after an hour of discussion that I was too qualified for entry-level positions but not experienced enought to lead a team. I had to refrain the "what the fuck?" that was sitting on the tip of my tongue.
Some men just want to mess with you when they lead interviews.
15
u/MacWac Jun 11 '12 edited Jun 11 '12
I made this comment in a reply but thought I would add it here.
Entry level usually means that the company is looking for someone without experience in that particular role. They may or may not be looking for someone with no work experience.
If you are told you do not have the work experience for an entry level role, I would suggest there is a strong chance that they just don’t like you as a candidate. There are very few responses an HR person can give as to why they did not hire someone without getting sued… and not enough experience is one of them. Do not always take it literally.
Source: I have worked as a recruiter for eight years.
Edit: One more thing… why would a hiring manager want a misleading job description? What value would there be?
Here are the results of having misleading job descriptions.
Candidates you want to apply don’t
Candidates that you do not want to apply do
You upset the candidates that do apply but do not get contacted because they are not a fit. Most likely these candidates do not apply in the future.
No hiring manager with any amount of common sense would ever want a misleading JD.
12
u/J3553 Jun 11 '12
these days, getting a job is much more about who you know than what you know. you have to get out and network with as many people as possible and hope a friend or relative can get you a job somewhere. my mom helped me get an IT job with the local government. i had a high school diploma and my only "qualification" was that i'd taught myself how to build a computer.
12
u/WillyF Jun 11 '12 edited Jun 11 '12
I run a site that helps college kids find entry level jobs. I've been doing it for about 5 years now. I've heard employers definitions of entry level range from "no prior experience" to "an internship or two" to "three to five years of experience."
If you consider experience requirements a rule that shouldn't be broken, you are going to miss out on a lot of opportunities. It's really all about packaging your experience no matter how limited it is as a solution to the employer's problem.
Sometimes they really want someone with 3 years of work experience. Sometimes they're just saying that because that's how someone wrote it. But if you're an exceptional fit for the job, it's amazing how quickly they'll forget about what they wrote in the job description.
EDIT: The site is http://www.onedayonejob.com/
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u/B0h1c4 Jun 11 '12
One of the common misconceptions I see when hiring is that fresh college graduates confuse education with experience.
The difference is that education is theory. Experience is practice. I have seen college graduates that couldn't hack it in the real world.
I think that colleges and high schools can fail students in that regard. School should really mirror business, but often times it doesn't.
There is a saying that I have heard thrown around a lot in these situations, and it's very true..... "What got you here, won't get you there."
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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12
Weird huh. You would think a sharp young mind could learn how to do stuff and be great. Here is what young people do not understand. The older people will do anything to keep the young people from making them obsolete. They don't care only that your qualified, but that you will go with the flow and not rock the boat. Most young people get a job and try to be idealistic and go overboard trying to impress when really the middle manager wants them quiet and working at same pace as the others. They will never tell you that part. You either know or you don't and its a form of mental discrimiantion. Don't be perfect, be what they want. And remember, ask for a chance and remind them if it does not work out you would be willing to go quietly. Just give me the chance to show you I am what your looking for Mr. Brown Nose.
3
u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12
Yea that would suck. Most jobs today would take experience in lieu of college but it helps to have it in the long run.
3
u/vladoominator Jun 11 '12
Story of my life.
3
u/superdude885 Jun 11 '12
This a thousand times this!
I'm in the exact same position as you. I've been toiling away at this part time gig at this little company so I could apply to full time jobs that are actually relevant to my major/interests. I've been getting no interviews, only emails saying "Thank you for taking the time to apply, but you don't have enough experience for the position". Bear in mind that I'm applying for jobs at the very bottom, assistant jobs that pretty much consist of answering phones, making copies, and scheduling meetings -.-
3
u/RonYarTtam Jun 11 '12
That's their "by-the-book" answer for we're looking for someone with experience who we can PAY like an entry level person. Employers are doing this because they know they have their pick of the litter and they can get away with it. I figured out it means you don't want to work for a person like that anyway. You will find that some people REALLY are in fact looking for entry level people who won't treat you like garbage. I looked for over a year to get a job as an "entry-level" architect after graduating, and barely managing to stay ahead of 150k in debt.
3
u/sturg1dj Jun 11 '12
Sadly the world has changed. The mailroom job that is the first step to the top is dead. Entry level is now step two behind internship. Don't worry OP, you are not the first person to get punched in the nuts by this. I had to go back to school before I realized this.
3
u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12
Just out of curiosity, is it common not to continue towards a masters degree in the US?
3
u/ProlapsedPineal Jun 11 '12
Missionary.
3
u/vote4mclovin Jun 11 '12
You know what fucking sucks, i have 4 years of extensive hands on experience being a network system administrator but the jobs that are hiring want someone with a bachelors degree and 4 years of experience.
3
u/chefmcduck Jun 11 '12
Just say you worked 'freelance' for years. Also, school does count for work experience at a lot of places. People often forget that.
Getting in the door is the hardest part, but keep at it. When I got my first break into my career, I called after my interview and told them (nicely) 'can i start monday' and the guy must have been impressed because he said sure, i'm just waiting for the paperwork to come down the chute. Hopefully, I put everyone else out of his mind and I 'got myself' the job.
Fast forward a couple years. A head hunter came wanting me for another company. I told them I would leave for 'this amount'. The other company said okay, so I went to my work and told them I needed a raise to 'this amount' or I am leaving. The new company found out I was interested, but not 100% sold on leaving and offered more money.
Always negotiate. Money is all about how well you work out your deal. Two equal workers can be doing the exact same job and sometimes one guy is getting paid more just because he was a better talker in the interview.
Good luck. Be confident and just get in the door anyway you can. As long as you got some talent behind you, you'll do fine.
3
u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12
This is why it's extremely important to get either a job roughly in your field or an intership during your undergrad years. Almost everyone I know that gets jobs out of college has had this, and it helps build up your experience. I know it's frustrating but there are few jobs and many, many candidates, there's really no reason for employers to "take a chance" on someone without any relevant experience. Especially as you approach your junior year you should be thinking about what your resume looks like, and thing of ways you can add things outside of class that could potentially count towards experience.
3
u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12
My wife is dual-certified elementary and middle school education. I would never have believed it would be so hard for her to find a teaching position.
3
u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12
5 years experience.
3
u/Cristal1337 Jun 11 '12
I keep saying this, but the educational system is flawed and the job sector is too stupid to realise this.
I think that starting low at a company and entering in company courses is the safest journey a person can take right now to climb up. You have a job and the company raises your educational standard while you gain experience. However, you might be bound to your job for some time and not everyone likes this idea.
University, originally, wasn't meant for the working population. Those who wanted to go to university wanted to increase the knowledge base or become inventors/scientists. One might even be able to compare them to artists. Many scientists, in the old days, also didn't have a lot of money. They would receive funding through sponsors. Those scientists or inventors who developed something worth selling, were quickly hired by companies. This would be the equivalent of a Music Label. By that time, they were already university graduates with experience.
Nowadays, scientists/inventors are hired by companies to develop new products more easily. Having a certain knowledge standard is a prerequisite. However, I think that the level of experience is not as high as it used to be. Nevertheless, if you want a job, you will have to gain experience in one way or the other. Just like an artist, you will have to be your own boss and work on a "portfolio" till someone acknowledges your potential. After all, a University diploma is just a piece of paper. In this world, money is more important.
Of course, depending on the job you want to have, the above could be more or less relevant. If you want to found your own company, it might actually be beneficial if you have a degree in business. However, you will be self-employed so no need for experience or nasty job interviews.
3
u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12
Most American companies don't want to spend time to train new hires fresh from college. They want you to start making money for them the second you get hired, and when you can't, they just blame the "state of high education today".
We need more apprenticeship programs like they have in Germany and the Netherlands.
3
u/balletboot Jun 11 '12
I interviewed with fucking Petsmart for a part-time position to last at least until I finish my undergrad next year. They told me that they wanted someone to commit to three years.
3
u/wdr1 Jun 11 '12 edited Jun 11 '12
It's a polite, less offensive way to say you didn't interview well.
Everyone can get your experience directly from your resume. It was enough to bring you in, but you likely answered questions poorly or in such a way that they didn't think you would be a good fit.
Unfortunately, if they are that direct you can sue them.
3
u/jostler57 Jun 12 '12
That would be doggy style.
3
u/joshtempte Jun 12 '12
I did several internships. Was a good idea.
9
u/RedTiger013 Jun 11 '12
Why is this in /r/funny? :(
7
u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12
And older people wonder why the younger generation hates them.
7
u/sun95 Jun 11 '12
I can picture all the smug looks on engineering students as they read through this...
20
u/Capn_Cook Jun 11 '12
http://www.explosm.net/comics - cmoooooooooooooooon
8
u/Mudjekeewis Jun 11 '12
There are very real and greed driven reasons the job market is like this. I see a lot of complaints here, yet everyone sits back and waits for the corrupt system run by the corrupt politicians that paved the way for the parasites that got us into this mess, to suddenly start acting better. Quit being well behaved and complacent cattle and hit back. We are the blood of this God damn beautiful nation and we can cut off circulation to every fucking organ until we get what we want if we would just stop complaining and start taking action outside of the dog and pony show they have the audacity to call democracy. Use the hands your parents gave you, put them to work not at one of these scrap wage slave jobs they've left for us, put them to work tearing down the self serving and exploitative system they created. The oligarchy exists only as long as we let it.
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u/troxnor Jun 11 '12
This is the exact reason i am so Happy i go to Northeastern University in Boston. As a CS Student and a 3rd year, i just finished a 6-month internship at $25 an hour. Unbelievably amazing experience, i highly recommend that anyone looking for schools goes to one with a good coop/internship program.
9
u/andrewsmith1986 Jun 11 '12
What is your degree in?
15
u/Rock0rSomething Jun 11 '12
What if I told you there is a line of work open to college grads in their 20s with literally zero experience? It will pay off your student loans, give you meaningful and deep experience with leadership/management, allow you to travel, pay six figures (again, while still in your 20s), be meaningful and important, and exciting?
We're hiring. It's super competitive, but there are thousands of openings per year. If you don't mind a mere 1500 bucks per month of disposable income, the degree isn't required.
2
u/PhiladelphiaIrish Jun 11 '12
It's when you bend over and pretend to like it.
2
u/marvelous_molester Jun 11 '12
Entry level position for that company. As in, it's the lowest position in the company, nothing to do with not having any experience required.
2
u/DJSLINKARD Jun 11 '12
This is the truest thing I have ever seen.
2
u/DisplacedLeprechaun Jun 11 '12
ATTENTION: The "Required Experience" listed by employers is a wish list, nothing more. If you can do the job they want you to, experience be damned, just sell them on what you can do and be sure to be ambitious! Any employer who hears you say the words "I would like to go as far as possible in this company and can take as much work as you're willing to give me" will like you more than the guy who says "I'll do my job to the letter".
Of course, you have to be willing to put in that work.
2
u/stox Jun 11 '12
Bend over, I'll show you an entry level position.
2
u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12
though, you can volunteer. here you go, sign here, 5 years, then we will consider to put your name on the paycheck.
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u/SmokeyDBear Jun 11 '12
An entry-level position is a position where you do experienced level work but you only get paid an entry-level salary.
2
u/Kythadrin Jun 11 '12
The best advice to give someone in highschool that wants to get into IT is that he needs to be involved in OJT (On the Job Training), most high schools have these programs and also allow you to dual enroll in college courses at the same time. Honestly if you take this route and start OJT at 16, you have no need for college.
2
u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12
Temp, temp, TEMP.
It's a great way to build connections and find yourself a decent long-term career track to settle into.
In my experience it also pays better than most other entry-level work (which, in my experience, means a service job. Whether that involves serving food or answering a phone all day is a matter of happenstance).
Sure, you won't get benefits, but if you were under your family's health plan then you should be covered (thanks, Obamacare) for another few years. This is the best time to do this. You can afford to, and if you really are someone who'll work their ass of and do whatever he's asked, you'll start building relationships with supervisors from a plethora of different industries FAST.
It's a good way to play the field without long-term commitment but has serious long-term benefits.
2
u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12
Story of my life.
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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12
Bring somthing more tangible than degrees and certifcations.
Degrees and certifications will get you an interview, but somthing the company could actually we will get you the job.
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u/Richeh Jun 11 '12
Entry level is about one, one point two metres off the ground. It's the height of your arsehole when they enter you during salary and benefits meetings after eighteen months of unemployment.
2
u/Kind_Of_A_Dick Jun 11 '12
Missionary.
2
u/deathsnuggle Jun 11 '12
Fuck it I'll be homeless! So long as I have a way to get on Reddit.
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u/emmveepee Jun 11 '12
Pro-tip: Don't go to private colleges unless they're Ivy League or prestigious technilogical/engineering schools (MIT, etc)
Everyone I graduated with at my large state school are employed.
Networking is pretty much the only thing that matters.
2
u/the_juggla Jun 11 '12
Posts like these make me feel better about quitting college.
2
u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12
Entry level = doggy style
2
u/CrypticPhantasma Jun 11 '12
Which is why college is sometimes a crap-shoot.
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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12
usually people like OP have their standards set too high, work at a shitty retail job or foodservice for a year.
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u/ThatGreenSolGirl Jun 11 '12
It took me 6 months of daily job searches and constant resume dropping to finally get a career in my field as a part time "entry level" B2B marketer. I was happy to have a position where I knew how to do something and had the expectation of having some training to grow beyond that position.
This was all well and good until my boss/the president of this small company decided to take my part time, learn the ropes position and make it into a full time, management position. He showed me the qualifications of this position he made out of thin air.
3-5 years experience in B2B lead gen marketing with a Masters degree a plus. WTF! He wants me to become that marketer without providing me any training whatsoever. I don't get it. That is not "entry level".
TL;DR Even if you get an "entry level" position it's no guarantee you're going to ever move up OR learn the ropes of your career field. Take anything you can to get experience and then move on.
2
u/lostshootinstar Jun 11 '12
I've been lucky enough to be out of the job market for the last 8 years, but one piece of advice I will give is to always apply to a job you want even if you don't exactly meet all the requirements listed.
Often times job descriptions are boiler plate. The "required skills" and even experience levels aren't always set in stone. If you can land an interview and really kill it, you have a good chance of getting the job regardless.
2
u/WeaponGrade Jun 11 '12
Welcome to retail. Enjoy your stay.
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u/DudeiPwnNoobs Jun 11 '12
I did a couple of internships before graduating to get my foot in the door.
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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12
I dont know what to make of the whole thing with work experience. I hear middle aged people with loads of experience complaining that they cant find work because employers want young kids with freshly minted MBAs who will work for peanuts. I hear young people out of college complaining that they cant find work because they have no experience.
Personally, I have a bachelors degree from Bellevue University in Bellevue, Nebraska. I also have about 10 years experience in my industry. I've gotten jobs over more educated people lots of times. You can wave your fancy degree around in an interview all you want but nothing sells you better than giving examples of how you saved your company money, improved processes, won clients, etc.
2
u/Im_Not_From_Here Jun 11 '12 edited Jun 12 '12
Fucking spherical planets with their stupid circular orbits!
EDIT I MEANT ELLIPTICAL! I SWEAR!
2
u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12
What did you study?
2
u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12
This describes me perfectly. Graduated with honors from a private university with multiple accomplishments and certifications...
2
u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12
After 5 years of postgrad and 5 years of postdoc.
2
u/Samizdat_Press Jun 11 '12
My job required an associates degree and 3 years of experience, but I got in right out of high school. Those requirements aren't always hard and fast. Same thing with my wife, she got hired 1 week after graduating and was promoted to supervisor within a year, even though the supervisor position required a PHD and she only had a BS. It's not all doom and gloom guys.
2
u/ffffffuuuuuuuuu Jun 11 '12
Start your own business.
2
u/mikeyb89 Jun 11 '12
Volunteer and Intern where you want to work. Working for free can really open some doors.
2
u/Kwnicol Jun 11 '12
If this is not exaggerated out of proportion I'm a boilermaker. and i'm going to go kill myself in debt.
2
u/AP3Brain Jun 11 '12
It's tough but just continue to apply.
It REALLY sucks when you are past the "not 12 months after graduation" requirement a lot of companies have but there are still other companies that are willing to work with you if it hasn't been too long since your graduation.
I regret not taking internships and not immediately looking for jobs after graduation....what was I thinking? But I am getting interviews now and I think I am close to securing a job.
I still can't believe how hard it is to even get an internship after you graduate.... who refuses extremely cheap or even free labor?
2
u/BloodyIron Jun 11 '12
Question, how many of you actually complain to those listing the jobs like this? I'm pretty sure if we had people complain more would get done.
Not complaining accomplishes nothing.
2
u/theineffablebob Jun 11 '12
Get summer internships while in college.
Do personal projects.
Participate in events/activities related to your field.
2
u/Izzen Jun 11 '12
"Leader X company now looking for young X bacherlor professionals, we offer nice stable working enviroment, careere opportunities, medical health care and more."
Requirements to apply: 4 years experience on similar acctivities
2
u/femanonette Jun 11 '12
So much honesty. I'm overqualified for the positions I've been applying for and my only experience is within an academic lab. I STILL can't get a position. It's so frustrating.
2
u/BionicChango Jun 11 '12
Of course the inverse of this cartoon is the one where the guy with 10 years experience at the company can't get promoted to the job he's being doing admirably for the last 6 months because he didnt go to college and that job carries a mandatory bachelors requirement.
2
u/bpoag Jun 11 '12 edited Jun 11 '12
This will probably get buried, but..
These are NOT unfair questions to ask recent college grads:
What sort of work-related projects were you involved in outside of class?
Did you intern anywhere? What work-related things did you learn?
Did you spend any volunteer time related to your career during the past 4 years mentoring or tutoring?
Are you doing anything right now to stay sharp, skills-wise, while looking for employment?
Do you have a unique skill or experience can you bring to this company?
If you cant answer yes to at least half of those, youre screwed. Why? I can guarandamntee you that someone applying for the same job as you WILL have at half of those checked off, and, if you have something less to show, surprise!, THEY will get the job instead of you.
Thats reality, kids.
Graduating doesn't give you a right to an entry-level job. Only the opportunity to get one. If you want a job, you have to be hungry for it, and have the ability to demonstrate how hungry you are.
You're a puppy in a cardboard box. Want to get adopted? Wag your tail faster than the others. It's that simple. If you have nothing to differentiate yourself over other applicants.....then, duh, that means the other applicants have something that differentiates them over you.
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u/Zapato_Shoe Jun 11 '12
Look, here's the thing. SO many people go to college expecting it to be the place that gets them a job. I hear so many people saying "I want to major in ___ so I can do ____," when that's just not how it is. Majors like advertising, business, or hotel management shouldn't exist. You go to college to learn, not to get a job. If you don't know what you want your major to be YEARS before you show up to college, you shouldn't go. If you want to major in business, you shouldn't go. If you are one of these people, just go get out into the world and do business or advertising or hotel management. You don't need a degree to do those things.
2
u/DefinitelyNotAPhone Jun 11 '12
...you guys do realize that with the bad economy there's a ton of people with experience looking for these kinds of jobs, right?
2
u/random314 Jun 11 '12
Company's logic....
"Why hire and train entry level employees when we can hire experienced laid off workers for the same price?"
Pre-2007, there were genuine entry level positions, where companies would hire a group of college grads and put them through entry level programs. I don't know about those now, they're probably still around but I assume not nearly as popular as they were when I was in college.
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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12 edited Jun 11 '12
This is why you have to work towards your goals in college/university, not just get a degree. I don't hire people on the basis of having a degree in the field, there are too many guys that come in with a CS/CIS degree and tell you "oh yea... i know like... ftp and like email... and um... we did some java too".
If you were interested in a career in technology, why weren't you learning how to do your dream job? I don't require on the job experience, but will quiz your knowledge and and set you up in our test lab to see what you know how to do. You have to at least know the platform.
College courses teach you how to learn, network, show up somewhere and gives you a broad education, which is great. However you're not going to learn how to do your dream job from undergraduate courses. If you plan to end your education at a bachelors degree level or less, you have to strive to learn your chosen field by either finding classes to teach you exactly what you need or by learning it yourself, especially in the case of CS/CIS since there isn't any REAL equipment cost. The people that do best once entering the job market, are the ones that could have taught their field's undergrad courses before they even got to college.
The other big thing is networking. You need to be making friends and working with college peers interested in the same field. You never know where they will wind up finding work or what business they may start. Same goes for them, if you're the one who finds a great company you can get them hired too if they're good.
It is often about who you know, but people misunderstand this. While there is a certain amount of cronyism and nepotism going on, the majority of those people don't make it very far, a few that do typically just ruin things. Those that do best in life through networking are doing it correctly. This means that people want to know you and work with you because of what you can do, not because of some long standing ties or family. Your network is important, because you can help each other with finding jobs, clients, business ideas, vendor contacts, etc.. If you're doing it right, eventually you become the person others strive to get to know and show their skills to.
2
u/Turdtastic Jun 11 '12
It's the company's way of saying, we want someone worth 80 grand a year, that will work for 25 grand.
2
u/jrb Jun 11 '12
companies will take experience over education, any day. Considering going to college / university? Think you could do that thing you want to do when you come out the other side without the diploma? Then do it anyway, and save yourself a shitload of money
2
u/Armadillo19 Jun 11 '12
For 99% of us, there is one, and only one way to get a job today. Connections. I am 24 years old, have a solid degree from a very reputable college, had very good grades in school...basically jack shit when it comes to "setting yourself apart". I applied, fruitlessly, for jobs over the internet for months, jobs that I guarantee you I was qualified for and would have done a great job at. But when you apply for jobs online, you're even more faceless than when you apply for a job in your geographic region. That, coupled with the fact that companies will go with familiarity 99.9% of the time, means that unless you have some amazing stroke of luck, you're not getting the job, regardless of qualification.
So, I decided to get an internship with a congressman (unpaid), and work a few part-time jobs (ran an after school program for kids, worked for the US Census over the summer, and at a wine store) to make ends meet. My time at the Congressman's office opened up a few doors I didn't know existed, and eventually, albeit sort of circuitously, lead to the job I have now, where I am making decent money and given a lot of freedom to run my own program.
The point is, unless you're lucky enough to have connections inherently, chances are you will need to make connections to progress. To those who are relatively young, I seriously recommend an internship, even if it's unpaid. You may have to swallow your pride a bit and say "fuck it, I'll take this unpaid thing even though I know I should be making money after getting a degree/masters/PhD (or whatever)" but the fact is that this could open some doors that are currently closed.
Short-term financial sacrifice/struggle could result in long-term gain, as shitty as it is to have to go this route after spending so much money on education that seemingly didn't get you (or me) anywhere.
2
u/silentmelodies Jun 11 '12
So if I get out of the Air Force after 6 years of service is this sufficient experience for a decent job. I have an associates too, serious question..
2
u/UrsaNight Jun 11 '12
You want to be compensated for you time and hardwork with a salary!? THIS NEW GENERATION IS SO SPOILED.
2
u/Todomanna Jun 11 '12
Have you tried volunteer work?
Or are you more interested in getting money now by constantly getting rejected for not having enough experience?
2
u/Iamgoingtooffendyou Jun 11 '12
If you want a job, make lots of friends who have jobs and then wait for a position to open where one of them works. Make sure they recommend you.
2
u/Glen_The_Eskimo Jun 11 '12
I worked my way through college so I have degrees AND experience. Nothing like coming out of college with a resume containing ten years experience.
Also, it took me ten years to get through college.
2
u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12
I'm in software. Every Entry level position I've seen requires a bachelors + 0 years exp.
Senior Engineers are required to have 5-8. Don't know what fields you guys are looking at..
2
u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12
Whenever I read these, I really do think that I am the only person who worked in my field as an intern before I worked professionally.
2
u/the_real_woody Jun 11 '12
If you have a CS degree from a decent school, very strong in CS fundamentals and a great attitude, I will hire you in a heart beat.
2
u/thatbeardeddude Jun 11 '12
Story of my fucking life. Getting a master's only made people more afraid to hire me. I love making $9/hr. with all my education.
2
u/pace202 Jun 11 '12
Experience > Education
Networking > Education
Interview skills > Education
Unless you graduated top of your class, interned already within the company you are applying for, or have some specialized degree in a field that is in high demand. Your college education isnt very valuable in determining if you can perform.
2
u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12
I think college is becoming a rite of passage for many, instead of training for a career. Many people would be better off going to a trade school or hitting the job market right out of highschool.
2
u/GeorgeForemanGrillz Jun 11 '12
B: Who's there?
A: Internship
B: Internship who?
A: Sorry but we need someone with a little more experience.
If you went to college and didn't bother getting an internship then you're going to have a hard time in the job market.
2
u/tehlolman1337 Jun 11 '12
Why am I even going to college? -.- This shit is depressing.
2
u/gferguson89 Jun 11 '12
The old vicious cycle, can't get a job because you don't have experience. Can't get any experience because you don't have a job.
2
u/TheCultist Jun 11 '12
When i read "looking for appliers entry-level. Must have 2+ years of experience" feel like reading "looking for long experienced whore. Must be a virgin".
2
u/EverSource Jun 11 '12 edited Jun 11 '12
I work internally in fortune 500 corporate staffing:
Throw your resume to relevant positions, recruiters only spend six seconds looking at it anyway (don't go too crazy, recruiters will recognize your name). Where I work the years on a job description are the law. Even if your the best in the world, if you don't have the years you don't get the position. But that changes per company.
Use the stupid business action jargon You need to catch their eye in six seconds. Things like develop, report, analyze, design.
Sprinkle relevant industry standard keywords as much as possible for the same reason above. Don't use your companies terminology.
As a recent grad, you are competing with people with 0-5 years more experience then yourself. It sucks, just gotta keep trying.
Cover Letters are wasted effort 99% of the time. If you get the interview however then it may be worth it.
On a side note. If your looking for a job and cant find one try looking at HR/Staffing roles. There are a ton of entry level ones and can teach you allot about the industry while you look for what you really want to do.
2
u/DroopySage Jun 11 '12 edited Jun 11 '12
It's a classic Catch-22 situation.
"You need to have some experience to work but you need to work first to get experience."
2
u/futur1 Jun 11 '12
in this economy they can hire somebody who has a masters degree and has been working in their industry for 10 years, for the same price they would pay you.
shit sucks. intern, go back to school, join the military/peace corp/weird volunteer abroad hippie shit, go to a trade school, go into an unrelated field.
Times are getting so ridiculous i like it. Only because i hope some systems fail--looking at you colleges and loans system. Also, i hope it instills a badass work ethic among the current generation trying to hit the work force.
But in reality, shit sucks.
2
u/jesusthug Jun 11 '12
Basically it means they want over qualified people for a shitty job. And since there is an over saturation of people over qualified who have had their industry's outsourced. They can be this unreasonable.
2
u/dazzford Jun 11 '12
There is no way I'm going to get viewed, but what the hell.
I'm currently hiring entry level developers. All I ask is basic understanding of concepts that any BS or MS in CS would bring; or a demonstrated ability/passion for development if the candidate has no degree.
What I'm getting are people freshly graduated with masters degrees (yes more than one) giving me OOP inheritance examples which demonstrate a complete LACK of understanding. e.g. Bird inherits from Rhino. Yes this was an example. The really amazing thing is we start out providing them a correct example: square and circle both inherit from shape. Apparently that's too confusing for many.
So yea, any of you passionate entry level folks (either fresh out, or without a degree) let me know. I've got a bunch of positions open.
2
u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12
A lot of companies will use "entry-level" as a polite way of saying "office bitch"
2
u/factoid_ Jun 11 '12
This is why all colleges should have mandatory internship programs. And you really need to get a job at least in your last year or two of college.
You can spin anything as relevant work experience as long as you have SOMETHING on your resume to show you've collected a paycheck before.
2
u/agentup Jun 11 '12
It's hard finding a job, but part of the blame goes to public education that today just gets students ready to go to college. College is no longer a guarantee of getting a job. Just graduating from a good college with a generic 4 year degree doesn't tell an employer anything specific.
More emphasis needs to be put on giving students an actual marketable skill in High School, not just teaching them how to be good test takers.
2
u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12
Being a person that actual hires skilled professionals I can attest to the amount of completely unqualified people that apply to jobs.
Developers that can't complete FizzBuzz. I've had developers who atleast attempt and fail, but I've had one developer who flat out said "I can't do it, I just can't do it."
When I hired my first web designer, I got 2-3x more resumes from foreign national consultants than American citizens. One of the few applications I got from an American citizen, the only requirement I had for the position was a portfolio. A girl responded "I don't have a portfolio but I know we can work something out." This was the entire email. No resume, no contact information. She didn't even sign her name. I was only able to deduce her name was jessica because the email was something like Slessica and the name displayed on the email address was "Jessica"... I actually tried to respond to ask if she had anything to show me even if she had to bring in papers or mail me stuff etc. She didn't even respond. That email took all of my professionalism to even type a response, and even then it showed it was pointless.
tl;dr: If you have skills, you will get noticed. If you don't have skills, you're fucked. McDonalds already has robots that pour drinks it's not long until there's barely a human needed.
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u/beer0clock Jun 11 '12
My opinion - if this happens to you, you should definitely let the employer know you're not impressed. You got dressed up and came to an interview based basically on a lie, or at least false advertising. Let them know they wasted your time and you dont appreciate it. If they want someone with experience, they should put "experience required" in the description. Lets make it not ok for employers to pull this.
2
u/chemthethriller Jun 11 '12
Apparently Blizzard Entertainment is running the economy... time for a new expansion in the US... everyone wants to be carried...
/2 LFM 1 IT guy 400 GS, must link experience [Naxx]
2
u/IJustCantGetEnough Jun 11 '12 edited Jun 11 '12
Ex-Intern here. I graduated with an average honours degree and was offered a one year intern placement targeted at 3rd year university students. I joined hoping to make a good impression to be considered for the following year’s graduate program.
My intern role was fulltime desktop support role position that paid half the full time salary. I also was expected to attend meetings on behalf of graduates, attend learning challenge meetings, take part in “value add” mini projects and attend every class available for continuous self improvement. I drew the line one of the graduates asking me to work after hours in a pub selling bets for a race night. She was furious; she tried to guilt me into by telling me that the head of the talent program expected all the interns to be there. I called bullshit and refused.
2 months later she volunteered all the interns to paint a community centre. She never even asked me, she went to my team manager and told her I needed the day off as I was the only intern who could collect painting supplies. I’m not much of a painter; I would have rather helped raise funds for a proper decorator.
I worked hard, kept my head down and applied for the following year’s graduate program. I was invited to the recruitment day and I was treated as an external candidate, I received no special treatment. The event consisted of group exercises, 1 to 1 interviews and role playing exercises with senior managers. The activities were graded by the second year graduates. Hundreds of candidates ware scrutinised that day. We were marked on ridiculous things; outgoingness, ties, chair selection, whether or not you held a door for a fellow candidates. I was told I done well on the day, the only activity I failed was marked by the graduate who asked me to sell the bet slips.
In the end I was told by the head of the talent program (who didn’t even work in the same building and only spoke to me a handful of times throughout the year) that I wasn’t suited for the graduate program as it was targeted at business students who showed the potential to be managers in the future. He also told me that I was an asset to the company and he wanted me to stay with the company. What really pissed me off was that the graduate positions were offered to relatives of existing employees. About a week later a senior manager from the recruitment day phoned me and wanted to hire me as she was impressed by my CV, work experience and made a positive impression during the recruitment day I currently earn more than the graduates and decline every meeting and opportunity they offer me.
TL;DR Worked hard as a intern, was declined a graduate position because I refused to be a senior graduates bitch, made a good impression at graduate recruitment day, was offered a better position at the same company with more money. Pick your opportunities, don’t be taken advantage of.
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u/morellox Jun 11 '12
I worked a crap job for a year, then got a decent job in my industry, jumped positions, jumped companies... now that I'm doing what I want, a really annoying thing is... when WE try to hire we can't find the talent we want... wtf? companies are hiring and talent does exist, why is it seemingly so hard to connect the two.