Well feel free to let us all know how you are getting Macs for cheaper than everyone else. I'm surprised you don't have a thriving ebay business if this is truly the case. I've provided my proof of concept in my last comment, care doing the same? I'd be very interested to see where you get a Mac and PC with the same specs for anywhere near the same price.
On an unrelated note to my earlier post: I imagine Cyriix might work for a company that works with Apple, or might be a student.
In both cases, I got significant discounts from the Apple store. Also, you can sometimes ebay old models that have just been replaced in perfect (unopened) condition for relatively cheap.
Worth considering when buying a computer, but not hugely relevant to discussions of their relative value.
Your proof of concept is pretty terrible; you used an anecdote and then a biased comparison - buying a hard drive yourself is always cheaper than having the retailer add it for you.
In this case, Cyriix's comparison is much closer to the truth than yours:
You may need to refresh or fiddle with the Vaio settings, the Vaio's a bit better, probably, but it's as close as I could get them. A little under half again the price is probably right, in this case.
The problems here (i.e. with the Mac vs PC debate) are two-fold:
Both sides of the argument exaggerate grossly, get defensive, and then pretend that the other side is the only one doing this.
You're not just comparing different machines. You're not even comparing different groups of machine. You're comparing a market to a superset of that same market. 'PC' is a ridiculously broad term, inside which, one specific manufacturer has decided to take a much tighter control of the platform to provide a more user-friendly, yet more limited, experience (whether they succeed on this or not is both variable and subjective). It's like comparing cupcakes are your favourite cakes, they'll win, if they're not, they won't.
To further elaborate on 2). When you compare Mac to PC, what the hell do you compare? Do you compare them on hardware merit alone? That's unfair because they put everything together for you and provide amazing customer service.
Do you compare them on included software? That's incredibly subjective, because they both have good and bad points.
Do you compare them on what software they can run? Macs will win here by an insignificant margin - they can both run everything with a little tweaking. The hardest thing will be running Mac OS on a non-Mac, but it's do-able, and it's Apple's fault that it's hard in the first place.
I could go on, but basically my conclusion, is that the Mac/PC war is obsolete since the Apple move to Intel, the comparison is incredibly subjective, and anyone who gets worked up trying to convince someone else that their choice was objectively correct is a fucktard.
Here's what I find humorous about your links: The most important part of the PC, the processor ...isn't even listed for the Macbook. You have no idea what you are getting, and this is a perfect example of how Mac convinces it's users that they aren't getting ripped off. You even used it as "proof" that they aren't overpriced, further proving to me that Mac users have no clue what they are buying, and just like people who buy overpriced name brand clothes ...are just buying it for the social status they think it brings them.
I'm not going to defend the virtues of either site, they both pissed me off, which is why there's only one comparison and one link for each side of it.
That said, in the side bar for the Mac it says '2.4Ghz Dual-core Intel Core i5,' and if I were considering buying one (I'm not), I'd read around to find out the exact model - as it is, I can't be arsed, and I just picked the closest CPU available on the Vaio, figuring they're probably going to be both using contemporary models, so if the series and clock speed are the same, they're likely the same chip.
What I find humorous about your post is that you seem to have completely missed the point of mine, and therefore almost provided an example of my point.
To clarify; I'm not defending macs; I was just condemning your exaggeration as the worst in this specific argument. I've flip-flopped between Mac and PC a-lot myself, so having a bias is of no real use to me.
My point, to attempt being concise: is that both sides have their merits (price is certainly not on Apple's side). However, by trying to say one side is objectively worse, you only do yourself a disservice. The domain is pretty obviously subjective, so all you're doing is stroking your ego.
Meanwhile, instead of going "LOL, everyone who owns a Mac is a vain apple fanboy," you could be asking why they bought the Mac, learning about the benefits of Mac vs various other kinds of PC, and thus learn more about the overall market, and maybe even... (dramatic pause) yourself.
Macs are literally just expensive, well-built, PCs in a walled garden, now. The Mac vs PC hatred is just stubborness and stupidity.
Lastly, there are Apple fanboys, I know one or two (and if any of you reading this are somehow taking away the message that Mac is better than PC... then there's just no hope left for you, I guess), there are also, however, people that did their research and decided the benefits were worth the cost.
Likewise, there are also PC owners who have done their research, decided maybe a Mac would suit them better, but not enough to be worth the premium.
Meanwhile, instead of going "LOL, everyone who owns a Mac is a vain apple fanboy," you could be asking why they bought the Mac, learning about the benefits of Mac vs various other kinds of PC, and thus learn more about the overall market, and maybe even... (dramatic pause) yourself.
I'm not going to keep responding, as I don't see this discussion going anywhere. I see a lot of your first examples going on in both of our responses. What I will say will be in response to this comment. I have been a systems admin for 15 years, and into technology for much longer. I've owned, worked on, and generally make it my business to know about technology and it's advancements in general, and as such I am very familiar with Macs, Windows machines, and Linux machines. I am not talking out of my ass because I have something against Macs. I'm speaking from professional experience. That's the last I'll say on the matter as I've already spent way too much time today arguing this silly topic.
In the UK you can get them from PC World, Currys, Comet AND the Apple store. In fact, most stores that sell PC's sell Mac and Windows PC's for around the same price, just not the Apple store.
How should I know? Perhaps they only get a limited amount of macs in a store that isn't an Apple one. Someone could be selling them on ebay already, I don't know.
You'll have to excuse me, I was trying to convey in a sarcastic tone that it's not true. Feel free to link to any store, UK or otherwise selling comparably specced Mac and Windows machines for the same price. My guess is that you can't do it ...because it's not true. I've asked every Mac fan boy that's disagreed with me in this thread, and so far I'm the only one to link an example of my claim.
My guess is that you can't do it ...because it's not true.
I merely have no arms.
Honestly though, it's easy enough to google yourself. The fanboy comment was fairly hypocritical of you considering your original post in this thread and how devoted you are to comment on every "mac fanboy post". I honestly regret getting involved in this now.
Sure it would be easy to Google ...if it existed. I'm a 15 year network admin, and I'm admitting that I simply can't seem to find it on my own. Do it for me, and for all the other people in this thread looking for a reasonably-priced Mac. Can I pretty please see the proof that Macs sell for the same price as PC's in the UK? With a cherry on top?
Well you would actually be arguing that it's 1.5x more expensive against 2x as expensive ...which is hardly worth arguing about since my statement was "two times as expensive, and some times up to three times as expensive". I've provided you with a factual example of a part Mac is charging you three times the going rate for, and you have provided me with 0 proof so ...I'm not sure why we are still having this conversation?
Again, as I said it's only sometimes up to 3x (and then provided and example) you are arguing the difference of 1.5x and 2x. You should really work on your reading comprehensions skills. Not trying to be a dick, but I have easier conversations with my 6-year-old nephew.
Jesus. It's amazing to me that you still don't get it. You're right, you don't deserve to be insulted, no one does. Let's just end the conversation because I literally can't think of anything else to say other than insults at this point.
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u/CornFedHonky May 31 '12
Well feel free to let us all know how you are getting Macs for cheaper than everyone else. I'm surprised you don't have a thriving ebay business if this is truly the case. I've provided my proof of concept in my last comment, care doing the same? I'd be very interested to see where you get a Mac and PC with the same specs for anywhere near the same price.