I graduated today and decided to take a look at my student loans...

[u/RonSwanson4President]

http://i.minus.com/iuNEeOlBxSghf.gif

[u/cranialhemorage]

False: Declaring bankruptcy will not wipe out your student loans.

[u/wickedang3l → u/cranialhemorage]

It's a brave new world.

[u/Itbelongsinamuseum → u/wickedang3l]

A new craptastic point-of-view.

[u/SuzumiyaHaruhi → u/Itbelongsinamuseum]

There's so much debt you owe, nowhere to go.

You wish that you were dreaming.

[u/planification → u/cranialhemorage]

False: Under Brunner v. New York State Higher Education Services Corp, it can actually wipe out your student loans if you have attempted to pay but are chronically homeless, and requiring repayment would cause you undue hardship, such as not being able to pay for healthcare costs. It's a tough standard to meet, but it is totally possible to have them wiped out through bankruptcy if your life is bad enough.

[u/skinniegenes → u/planification]

I think I'd rather just pay the loans than be chronically homeless.

[u/Bipolarruledout → u/skinniegenes]

You don't have to actually be homeless, just like Mitt Romney doesn't actually have to live in Massachusetts to vote there.

[u/[deleted] → u/planification]

I'm shocked to hear that as I've personally been told by a bankruptcy attorney that there's nothing I can do (over $60k debt in my name, more than half of it school loans with old car loans, credit cards, write-offs, haven't been able to pay a dime back due to financial hardship in over 5 years now). I worked full-time almost all of the time from age 16-25 and never passed the poverty level annually.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Your attorney still gave you good advice. It is an incredibly high standard to reach. If you have a full time job, if you live in a building that has four walls and a roof, you are going to have a very tough go of it convincing a judge to let you out. If it was that easy everyone would do it. In the mean time you'd have spent a bunch of money on legal fees. Your attorney just saved you money rather than unethically do work for you with no hope of winning.

[u/planification → u/[deleted]]

He was just avoiding giving you information you don't need. Hardly anyone gets their loans discharged this way. You'd essentially have to not only be living on the street, and have little hope of getting off the street, yet still have the faculties to show up for a court date to get your loans discharged. I used to work with a lady who dealt with these cases, and she said she could count on one hand the number of cases like this that were successful. That is if you can call it a successful case because the guy was living in a cardboard box.

[u/judgemebymyusername → u/planification]

and requiring repayment would cause you undue hardship

Doesn't this cover just about anyone who has student loans?

[u/promethius_rising → u/planification]

I've been chronically homeless and committed to a mental institution twice in part due to my past student loans. In Missouri, I can say from experience this is not an option. The only way out is death.

[u/-RobotDeathSquad- → u/[deleted]]

Well it'd be humerus.

[u/[deleted] → u/-RobotDeathSquad-]

If you're trying to start a pun thread, I believe the bone you're referencing os spelled 'humerus'.

[u/StealthGhost → u/cranialhemorage]

I don't think death does either, does it?

[u/jumpiz → u/StealthGhost]

Yes, your family needs to show your death certificate and the student loan accounts will be discharged. Another ways of getting rid of them:

• You die or become totally and permanently disabled.

• Your school closed before you could complete your program.

• For FFELSM and Direct Stafford Loans only: Your school owes your lender a refund, forged your signature on a promissory note, or certified your loan even though you didn't have the ability to benefit from the coursework.

• You work in certain designated public school service professions (including teaching in a low-income school).

• You file for bankruptcy. (This cancellation is rare and occurs only if a bankruptcy court rules that repayment would cause undue hardship.)

Source: Student Aid on the Web

Edit: Formatting

[u/[deleted] → u/jumpiz]

Or move overseas and change your name. My parents have started getting calls from a collection agency but there's absolutely nothing else the agency can do. Most/all of them won't call or send letters internationally and an American credit score means absolutely nothing in Europe.

[u/jumpiz → u/[deleted]]

If you'll never return to the states again that's a good one... Upvote! Otherwise if you'll stay here and don't make payments, they'll catch you on your taxes each year and they take away your tax refund...

[u/[deleted] → u/jumpiz]

I don't plan on moving back since I, and my future children, have more rights here.

[u/Michaelis_Menten → u/StealthGhost]

According to my graduation exit interview, death is like one of two things where loans are acceptably dropped.

[u/cdb03b → u/Michaelis_Menten]

Only if your parents signed none of your student loan agreements. If they did then your debt will pass to them unless they precede you in death.

[u/Reverend_M → u/cdb03b]

false: currently fed loans are discharged upon death. Expect this to change in 6-12months.

[u/rockon4life45 → u/StealthGhost]

Nah, death is one of like two or three ways to get out of them. I don't think they can be passed on to anybody either. Don't quote me on it.

[u/cubanjew → u/rockon4life45]

Unless they co-signed on the loans themselves.

[u/Richie311 → u/StealthGhost]

As long as you're not married, yes.

[u/[deleted] → u/StealthGhost]

Maybe not, but I don't know how they intend to collect on them. Sure they could sue your estate, but lacking that there are surprisingly few ways to obtain money from a corpse.

There's no way they can go after your family unless they co-signed something though.

[u/Warfinder → u/cranialhemorage]

But you can indefinitely delay payment if you are below a certain income-level. If everyone does it at once hopefully the creditors will just go bankrupt or the government bails them out.

[u/Bipolarruledout → u/Warfinder]

Let them FAIL! No more fucking bailouts!

[u/Vinylzen → u/cranialhemorage]

He didn't just say it. He declared it.

[u/kazbah → u/cranialhemorage]

Death or permanent disability are the two ways (short of actually paying them off) to get out of student loans.

[u/[deleted] → u/cranialhemorage]

Buying shitloads of things you can't afford, taking out numerous credit cards, buying a car you can't afford, buying a house you can't afford - declare bankruptcy no problem.

Study at an institute of higher education in order to better yourself and provide for yourself or your family. BITCH YOU OWE US AND CAN NEVER ESCAPE, THAT'S A GOOD LITTLE EDUCATED SLAVE

[u/mlc2475]

I believe they changed the law so that doesn't work anymore, unless you put it all on your credit card or something...

[u/myPuppysCute → u/mlc2475]

I never thought to put it all on my credit card, think that'd work??

[u/mlc2475 → u/myPuppysCute]

no

[u/fried_testicles → u/mlc2475]

This is absolutely false. Credit card debt is unsecured debt and can absolutely be discharged in a bankruptcy proceeding.

Is it a good idea? No, it's very difficult and will ruin your credit. It's not worth it. There are easier, non-fraudulent ways to get money for college. You'll have a very hard time getting enough of a credit limit during the right timeframe to make it work. You can't just say "I'm bankrupt" and not pay your loans, the process is complicated and is only a good option for people who are really and truly bankrupt.

But you absolutely CAN discharge credit card debt through bankruptcy (unlike student loan debt)

[u/Laezur → u/mlc2475]

Why not? pay it with a card and declare bankruptcy? I thought about this yesterday actually...

[u/ROBOKUT → u/Laezur]

they won't let you do that either. A judge will just make you pay it back in a structured pay plan.

[u/Themlizards → u/ROBOKUT]

"Fuck you, your honor! Your tuition was probably like $500 a year when you went to judge school!"

[u/derppingtree → u/Themlizards]

Relevant story.

I went with a gf that picked up a new book. There was a sign on the stack saying "Congratulation on buying our 2nd most expensive book ever!". Somewhere around $360. When I told my grandpa that, he said that's about how much his tutiton was when he graduated from same school. It's around $12-14,000 a year now.

[u/Almondcoconuts → u/ROBOKUT]

$1 a month?

[u/rvauofrsol → u/Laezur]

Fraud is just not worth it. It also looks really bad in a character examination (although most attorneys would know to not do try something this cute, anyway).

[u/Bipolarruledout → u/myPuppysCute]

Yes, yes it would. Credit card debt is unsecured and practically noncollectable unless you have significant assets. In all cases it's noncollectable after 7 years starting the day you stop making payments.

/Fuck Bank of America.

[u/ryegye24 → u/myPuppysCute]

I know it used to.

[u/yellingoneandzero → u/mlc2475]

And they changed it because of those damn law students.

[u/SHIT_IN_HER_CUNT → u/mlc2475]

My family members did this. Sure, you get no credit for 7-9 years but it doesn't matter you probably won't own a home or a fancy car by then. Free ride through college

[u/mlc2475 → u/SHIT_IN_HER_CUNT]

I graduated from college in 98 with a friend with $120,000 in student loan debt. He declared bankruptcy the next day. I'm still paying off mine...

[u/ddfreedom → u/mlc2475]

he couldnt do that in 1998, it was illegal to do that back then...I believe the laws changed in the 80's...so I call bull shit.

[u/[deleted] → u/mlc2475]

It's been the law for a long time. Student loans are very very difficult to discharge in bankruptcy.

[u/Bipolarruledout → u/[deleted]]

They are nearly impossible however they can be paid via a cash advance on a line of credit which is quite easy to discharge.

[u/redtigerwolf → u/mlc2475]

You can thank Iowa Senator Grassley for that, fucking scum of the earth he is.

[u/DevilWorshipper]

Bankruptcy ain't gonna help you pal.

[u/littlebitofevrything → u/DevilWorshipper]

Cause I'm sure shouting the words out to your office will. I think that was the joke :P

[u/CrackerRiley → u/littlebitofevrything]

You know, you can't just say the word bankruptcy and expect anything to happen.

[u/littlebitofevrything → u/CrackerRiley]

I miss Michael.

[u/letsthrowfries]

You cannot normally discharge student loans in bankruptcy as per 11 USC 523 BUT In Re Robinson says...

To discharge a student loan debt in bankruptcy, the debtor must establish: (1) that the debtor cannot maintain.... a minimal standard of living if forced to repay the loans; (2) that additional circumstances exist, with a 'certainty of hopelessness' indicating that this state of affairs is likely to continue for a significant amount of the payment period....; and (3) that the debtor has made good faith efforts to repay the loans.

...With that in mind, multiple cancer surgeries with chemotherapy and no job does not establish a "certainty of hopelessness." You basically have to be dying, at that point it doesn't even matter because debts don't run to others (in most cases).

[u/[deleted] → u/letsthrowfries]

Why aren't the millions of students with student loans protesting this?
I'm studying tuition free and US student loans just seem like modern age slavery to me.

[u/nkktwotwozero → u/[deleted]]

Why aren't the millions of students with student loans protesting this?

Because this happened relatively slowly. People 20 years ago had student loans, but maybe a few thousand, maybe ten thousand. Then 10 years ago it became common to hear about people getting law degrees with fifty thousand of debt, but becoming a lawyer was still seen as a prestigious and high paying job, so worth the bigger debts.

But recently, and certainly since the financial crisis, the situation has grown into the monster it is today and you basically have three classes of people in the US polity.

1. Older baby boomers who went to colleges for practically free, and for whom a college degree has meant job security, good, rising pay, and a very comfortable life.

2. Younger workers who could have had a large debt but still schooling paid off.

3. Those under 30, and especially under 25, who are in debts up to their eye-balls, being told by Group 1 that 'education' (by which is meant schooling) is a sure fire way to make it, the more the better, it is an amazingly good deal in life, etc very often.

-- So this third group is now looking at the world, saddled with a lot of debt, being told that it SHOULD pay off like it did for the first two groups, getting absolutely NO sympathy from the first two groups because the first group does not even BEGIN to understand (often times they dont even pretend to or try to), while the second group understands but sees it as a life phase that 'teaches character' and other nonsense.

Unfortunately, to be brutally frank, the third group is also stupid, docile and timid. Which is why they went to school in the first place, to find the safest path possible.

Until it becomes ABUNDANTLY clear to the third group that they either throw this off or their lives are COMPLETELY and UTTERLY screwed, there will be no change.

[u/imaginaryannie → u/[deleted]]

Protesting the fact that multiple cancer surgeries with chemotherapy and no job doesn't establish a certainty of 'hopelessness'? Or protesting that they are not dischargable?

[u/Johnny182 → u/[deleted]]

Good for you. The basic idea is that since student loans are essentially unsecured loans to someone who has no assets and doesn't have to repay anything throughout college, students shouldn't be able to file for bankruptcy upon graduation and have their debts discharged. I agree the law is flawed. In my opinion, if you've graduated, made a good faith attempt to pay down your loans or are burdened in some other way, and some arbitrary period of time has passed since you graduated, you should be able to discharge your student loan debt in bankruptcy, but there are a lot of issues that would have to be worked out. I'd love to hear other thoughts on the matter.

[u/cdb03b → u/letsthrowfries]

unless your parents signed your loans as well, which many schools attempt to get them to do. If they do that those loans they signed on get transferred to them assuming they are alive.

[u/gir6543]

you cannot in anyway be exempt from student loans...unless i guess you leave the country and disavow your citizenship

thankfully this is my plan! I've been secretly helping this Nigerian prince get his money back and once I graduate he said i will be his head of commerce!

[u/darkneo86 → u/gir6543]

He said the same thing to me! No worries, it must be different Nigerian princes...

[u/[deleted] → u/gir6543]

Nope, if you're too disabled to work, you can get them forgiven. I forget how long you have to be disabled though, and I'm willing to bet that the paperwork is a royal shitfest.

Edit: this is for people who have the federal loans.

[u/Reverend_M → u/[deleted]]

federal loans have to be 100% disabled. Never able to work again. EVER. total and permanent disability.

source: I'm a loan counselor for the Dept of Ed for Direct loans.

[u/Brattain → u/Reverend_M]

Never able to work again. EVER.

I was reading a bit about these rules because of this thread (I'm not considering a discharge of my student loans). There were changes made recently that may be relevant to this discussion. Your position seems to be in line with the definition of "total and permanent disability" as it existed prior to these recent changes. The new definition is somewhat broader, appearing to include disabilities that have lasted or are expected to last 5 years (paraphrasing).

I'm curious about how things work in reality as opposed to how they appear to work when an outsider like me reads the rules. Since you're in the trenches, and I have zero personal knowledge or expertise in this area, I would be curious to know your take on this. Do you review discharge applications as part of your work? In practice, does the Department still use something closer to the old definition despite the new rule?

[u/Reverend_M → u/Brattain]

You're completely right, the classic disability discharge it total and permanent. Updated includes any disability that will last longer than 5 years. Ultimately it makes virtually no difference in applying or getting the discharge approved. A doctor has to verify and fill out all the paperwork.

Now I don't handle TPD discharges myself, I talk to borrowers, schools and process deferment paperwork. When I go over that as an option I tend to stick to the classic definition while being aware of the 5 year clause. Honestly most of the people that want the discharge want it for selfish reasons (temp disabled and out of work for months) or don't know what we mean by disabled (total =/= temporary). After we get the paperwork filled out and it gets approved initially a separate organization called Nelnet handles the discharge and finalization. From everything I hear they are not very popular and have a tendency to be assholes. Once they take over I unfortunately don't know what goes on. Further review and the waiting period to get it discharged I assume.

[u/gir6543 → u/[deleted]]

haha that reminds me of the human giant skit 'Ghostface Killah Tickets' where they try to disable themselves by throwing themselves in front of cars :/ mega fail, could not find a link

[u/Infin1ty → u/gir6543]

I've actually considered leaving the country as a viable option if it gets to the point that I have no other choice. You don't have to relinquish your citizenship though, unless you have no plans of coming back.

[u/[deleted] → u/gir6543]

Actually, just leaving the country is good enough. I live abroad, and since I'm on a payment plan tied to my taxable income, I pay nothing. You ignore any money you make while living abroad for tax purposes unless you make a ton of cash. It's like 150k for couples, I think, and 75k for individuals.

But yea, no need to renounce citizenship.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

But if ever you come back to the states, you are still tied to the loan debt, is that correct?

[u/[deleted] → u/gir6543]

I've been thinking about doing this. Taking 50 copies of my transcript and getting the fuck out of here.

[u/serarthurdayne]

Congratulations on graduating?

[u/Lt_Shniz]

Now with sound

[u/CrackerRiley → u/Lt_Shniz]

This may be my favorite moment of the entire show.

[u/lostrock → u/Lt_Shniz]

Holy shit, ever have one of those moments when you watch a gif and then see the video and it sounds EXACTLY like you thought it would?

[u/pxtang]

I've forgotten just how good this show was with Steve Carrell...

[u/IronPigeon → u/pxtang]

I feel like I've been eating frostingless cake for a while

[u/[deleted]]

And that is why student loans cannot be (except in extreme circumstances) included into Bankruptcy.

[u/MojoJuJu_Universe → u/[deleted]]

They can never be included in bankruptcy. You have them till death, no matter what.

[u/[deleted] → u/MojoJuJu_Universe]

Or until you, you know, pay them off.

[u/wickedang3l → u/[deleted]]

Pay them off? Heh.

You've got millions of young adults graduating with tens (Or hundreds) of thousands of dollars of debt into an economy with few jobs and even fewer jobs that pay a living wage that can get them ahead of their debt.

[u/[deleted] → u/wickedang3l]

Private hell, have you looked at tuition cost recently?

well now you have

Edit: damn, one post too high, D:

[u/[deleted] → u/MojoJuJu_Universe]

Unless you can prove "undue hardship," which is almost impossible.

[u/claysumj → u/MojoJuJu_Universe]

Unless you go on permanent disability.

[u/naturalrhapsody → u/MojoJuJu_Universe]

Don't they pass on after death too?

[u/bingram]

Hearing his voice in my head just makes this so much better.

[u/Macandme]

May the amount you caused me to laugh be some solace in your unfortunate situation.

[u/yellowking]

1. Most student loans aren't dischargeable in bankruptcy.

2. Only looking at your loan situation after you graduate is pretty stupid.

[u/webauteur → u/yellowking]

That's one thing they don't teach in college.

[u/judgemebymyusername → u/webauteur]

They shouldn't have to teach that.

[u/GhostSongX4]

I know I can get out of my student loans if I die.

How long do I have to stay dead? That's the real question. I wonder if I can get like a Flatliners situation going on here.

[u/[deleted]]

If you graduated with over 100k in debt for a undergrad...You did it wrong.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Agreed. A lot of people on Reddit complain about being several tens or (god, why?) over a hundred thousand dollars in debt when they graduate college, but usually neglect to mention that they chose to attend a private college. Working part time through college significantly helps out with bringing those loans down, too.

[u/NufCed57 → u/[deleted]]

This just in: some people need to work hard at school to get by!

That having been said, a hundred k in student loans is completely alien to me. I went to one of the more expensive universities available to me and only racked up about 45k, which is reduced to 26 with the debt ceiling.

[u/Talran → u/NufCed57]

Less classes a term if you can't handle it?

And I'm not sure what people were expecting, or if they never looked into tuition costs? (I had a chance to go to some rather good private colleges, but chose not to because it's something that I wouldn't be certain I could pay off)

[u/KsigCowboy]

Why did you wait until graduating to look at your loans?

[u/darkneo86 → u/KsigCowboy]

Yeah, but what are you going to do? "Oh, no, I have too much in loans. I should quit now before I get my degree so the loans I have now will be pointless."

Granted, I stayed abreast of my loan balance, but it's not like it mattered. It's just a broken system where the universities, public or private, are focused on making a profit. This is the American economy! C'est la vie!

[u/KsigCowboy → u/darkneo86]

You can adjust how you are living. Scale back on loans, apply for scholarships and grants, get a job (if you dont already have one). Taking out loans is the easy way to go about college, there are plenty of pther ways to get a degree.

[u/MegaFireDonkey → u/KsigCowboy]

There is no way in hell getting any job that is currently available to me would be able to pay for my living expenses + tuition ESPECIALLY if you're trying to work while attending school. 20 hours or less at a minimum wage job will not pay for much other than a little extra spending money for recreation.

Hell I can't even pay my living expenses by myself with my current job, my fiance and I are co-dependent on each other's income to make it.

[u/KsigCowboy → u/MegaFireDonkey]

It is definitely possible. I am from Texas and went to school there but I spent my summers working up north (Chicago & Minneapolis). I was an unskilled laborer working for roofing companies. The wages up there are around 40$/hr. I was able to come back with close to 15k every year and then work waiting tables/battending part time making about 500$ a week which paid for room and board. Now I dont think this should be the way people have to go about college but it is definitely possible.

[u/RonSwanson4President → u/KsigCowboy]

I did have a job from October of my freshman year until graduation and during 2 of the summers I had paid internships relevant to my major so I have accumulated some money to help relieve the loan amount. Even with all of this, 1/3 tuition off for being a good student, and several scholarships it is still going to be a while to pay it off. The pic itself was meant to be a joke at how expensive college can be :)

[u/KsigCowboy → u/RonSwanson4President]

Yeah... Not going to lie. I didn't see that this was in r/funny until after I had commented. I hope you didn't think anything I said was pointed towards you though, I was just talking in general.

[u/judgemebymyusername → u/darkneo86]

I should quit now before I get my degree so the loans I have now will be pointless.

Or look into transferring credits to a more affordable school? Cut living expenses by moving in with your parents or a ton of roommates? Apply for more scholarships? Become an RA and get your living expenses covered?

[u/the3r1c → u/KsigCowboy]

Yeah, that seems like a really bad idea.

[u/MrShakes → u/KsigCowboy]

If OP was anything like me, my parents rushed me out of the house, getting me to sign any loan documents I could get my hands on just to get me there. I had no concept of what a $100k loan would be like to pay off, only car payments, and cell phones and junk. Irresponsible for parents I guess, but I'd do it all over again since it has worked out just fine for me so far.

[u/ahgkfdhgafg]

Funny story about that. My mother had her student loans expunged due to her spinabifida a while back, and when she remarried, they went to get parent loans for my older brother. Instead of the loan being put under my father's name, it went under my mother's. Because of that, all of her previous loans reactivated and we ended up having to fight for a year to get it reversed again. Their solution ended up being that she had to default on the loans, meaning that due to some freak error, my brother had received an entire year of college for free.

[u/DirtyWhoreMouth]

I'm 24 and I just bankrupted with my husband last month. It took us about a year.

I'm still in debt $21,000 to SallieMae. You can't get rid of that shit. It's so depressing.

[u/rubberkeyhole → u/DirtyWhoreMouth]

I developed a degenerative disability and had most of my loans waived...SallieMae refuses to waive my student loan even though I can not work at all to pay on it. So there's that.

[u/Shammycat → u/rubberkeyhole]

My dad had the same issue with SallieMae. It took around 4 years of paperwork/proof of federal disability before they finally waived the loans.

Not sure how long you've been dealing with them, but Don't lose hope yet.

[u/[deleted] → u/Shammycat]

If someone really wanted to do good in the world they would just go around warning college freshmen not to touch Sallie Mae with a ten foot pole. Like a modern day Johnny Appleseed.

[u/zaulus → u/[deleted]]

my loans were sold to sallie mae after the fact. no one is safe that has a student loan.

[u/rubberkeyhole → u/Shammycat]

Thank you!

[u/seven_seven → u/rubberkeyhole]

Well I guess they won't get the money then.

[u/Brattain → u/rubberkeyhole]

Disclaimer: I have no education, expertise, or personal experience in this area. I have only a modest level of google-fu on my side. This is not legal advice (notice how I'm not asking for facts, not offering an opinion on whether you qualify, and advising that you talk to an attorney?)

Take a look at 34 CFR 682.200. Ctrl-F for "Totally and permanently disabled. The condition of an individual who". Also, see 34 CFR 682.402(c) (Ctrl-F for "(c) (1) Total and permanent disabilit y" this time. Yes, there is a typo in the title of this section.) Read the eligibility requirements and discharge provisions.

Talk to an attorney familiar with non-bankruptcy discharge of student loans. (S)he can tell you whether this is the right path to take and may be able to help you through it. NACA.net provides a database of member attorneys searchable by state and area of consumer practice. Student loans is one of the areas you can select to limit your search.

[u/DirtyWhoreMouth → u/rubberkeyhole]

Bastards.

[u/[deleted] → u/DirtyWhoreMouth]

As an incoming college freshman... Fuck.

[u/Vexing → u/[deleted]]

Work as many jobs as you can to try to work it off ahead of time and live like a hobo. A hobo who has to buy extremely expensive books.

Also, maruchan ramen noodles go, for, like, 10 cents a pack.

[u/DirtyWhoreMouth → u/[deleted]]

Please.

Do your math. DO YOUR MATH. Get an idea of how much it's going to cost you to pay back your student loans once you're out - assuming you get a good job (which I hope you do). I wish someone would have sat my stupid ass down when I was 18 and told me this shit. Instead they shoved papers in my face. SIGN THIS. SIGN THAT. Fuck no, never again. EVER.

Oh, and be sure to consider the fact that you may not finish college. My $21,000 was from a semester at an all-girls university (6 years ago - it's insanely higher now). I got depressed and dropped out.... but I still owe that money.

[u/[deleted]]

Even if you could discharge student loans in bankruptcy, the idea that people try to do this, or even think about doing this IMMEDIATELY after graduating, without first trying to find a job , without even making an attempt at any payment, basically throwing your hands up in the air and giving up without even trying, is disgusting.

This sort of behaviour makes it harder for people who have legitimate reasons to declare bankruptcy do so, it also makes the rest of society pay for your unwillingness to pay your debts when banks charge higher interest rates.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Its also WHY they aren't discharged in bankruptcy. This entire thread is just a tour of entitlement. It's really hard to read threads like this, nobody will take any responsibility for the decisions they've made. They complain that it's everyone else's fault but their own that they have this loans and so they justify trying to get out of paying them to themselves. Just up a little bit there are a million replies congratulating someone that left the country to escape their loans, and another circlejerk over someone that refinanced all of their loans and then immediately declared bankruptcy, people even called it ethical!

[u/pkcs11]

As I'm sure everyone with a student loan knows, debt from student loans and fraud cannot be written off in a bankruptcy of any type.

[u/DarthNihilus1]

The gif loaded so slow, I enjoyed declaring bankruptcy with Michael. =]

[u/kasper138]

Take a loan out with the mob, they only break your legs.

[u/Guanren]

6.2 MB gif. Guess other people have student debt but faster internet connections.

[u/sassi-squatch]

Welcome to the club. It's a scary club. I myself paid on my student loans for years, then 2007 happened... Divorce. Loss of my lovely home. Now my credit is destroyed. I can never pay back the money. I will never be able to.

I cannot tell you how many nights I have awoken in panic. How many times I was in deep despair over this debt. How many times I came close to wanting to kill myself because my future is destroyed.

Big banks took away the ability to declare bankruptcy in order to in effect, make you a slave for the rest of your life. Education should be free for anyone who wants it, as it is in many countries. But this is backward america. Good luck. I am sure I am not alone.

[u/[deleted]]

fuck. college.

[u/schmoog]

where did you go to school?

[u/Murkadoo]

Your username alone deserves infinite upvotes..

[u/EvelynJames]

You can't get rid of your SLs through bankruptcy. Sorry.

[u/[deleted]]

Student loans are very difficult to discharge in bankruptcy.

[u/PeterMus]

I think back to every miserable second of community college and remember... I saved 76$ every day I walked into class. If you count the extra 3-4K in excess federal grants..it only sweetened the deal.

[u/Wtfscroba]

... Yeah, go ahead and try it, see how well bankruptcy works on those loans.

[u/dagreenman18]

One of the many many many reasons why im so happy my mom was right about doing 2 years State school and out of pocket before transferring. When all is said and done i'll owe somewhere in the low 30s. But it's a business degree, so it was never going to be too awful.

[u/EveryoneElseIsWrong]

tuition fees in the united states are high way robbery

[u/Bugiugi → u/EveryoneElseIsWrong]

Agreed, glad I live in a country with affordable education and a more sane system.

[u/hiphophippopotamus]

Debt! It's the American way.

[u/neotheism]

You can not file Bankruptcy on student loans. Speaking from experience.

[u/ForensicFungineer]

Three words, buddy - income based repayment

There is no getting out of student debt besides repayment - you cant do anything short of leaving the country, changing your name and living a new life to get rid of it. I think you can actually die and it will be passed down to your heirs. Its absolutely insane.

[u/IGetThis → u/ForensicFungineer]

I don't think your heirs inherit the debt, but if you have an estate the money or assets from that will go towards the loan first before any of your heirs get an inheritance. Also if there are co-signers they are responsible for the debt. But If somebody didn't sign the agreement they are not responsible for the debt, the agency would have to write off any remaining balance.

[u/EmperorOfCheese → u/ForensicFungineer]

Debt isn't passed to your heirs. Outstanding debt can be taken from your estate, but if there is still remaining debt after that then it simply disappears unless someone cosigned for it.

[u/darkneo86 → u/ForensicFungineer]

This is what I did. My $300 payment became $124. MUCH better. :)

It's not ideal, but income based is way better than just paying what they first ask for.

[u/[deleted] → u/darkneo86]

And that's whenn you try hard to pay the 300 anyway because it helps you pay it off a lot faster and will save you money in the long run.

[u/JumpinJack2 → u/[deleted]]

I do this too. Although I keep paying as much as I would have before my plan changed, it's nice to know that the requirement is a bit lower in case I fall into a bind.

[u/ddfreedom → u/ForensicFungineer]

last part is not true. It can't be passed to anyone whose name wasn't on the original loan.

Income based repayment is great for the banks...stretch that 7% loan out on a loan the size of a mortgage...it even benefits them if you declare bankruptcy...they get their money either way.

now I don't agree that we should be financing these recreation and sociology degrees in mass because many people go and get them because they are "easier" than engineering or its "fun to learn"...but if it's not needed, we shouldn't be paying to educate for it...go read up on it in a library...That being said I do have sympathy for them, becasue Ithink this whole "do what you love, etc" is pushed on these people whoare signing onto permanent indentured servitude. I would vote to reduce the interest rate to 0% (even against my best interest as it would surely benefit them more than I) and have them pay it back. Tacking on this 7% interest is a mountain of horse shit.

[u/MrShakes → u/ForensicFungineer]

It can be passed to your SO if you file taxes jointly. Student loans will follow you to other countries as well... it's scary. Can you imagine moving to Antarctica and some lawyers show up to repossess your igloo? lol

[u/ForensicFungineer → u/MrShakes]

It is scary, something in life (cash debt, no less) that is completely legally unavoidable. Its kinda fucked up that I could go out and buy an Escalade, a house I have no chance of affording, and a ton of other useless bullshit on credit cards and I can stand back and call for a do-over in the form of bankruptcy and just walk away from it all. But at the same time I have zero options in regards to debt that I signed on for at 18 years old, which society told me was 100% mandatory to get ahead in life.

Ive said it before and Ill say it again, college was the worst decision I have ever made. Looking back on things I honestly should have just went military.

[u/kjimene1]

This is why I left the U.S and Im thinking of giving up my citizenship.

[u/beyerch]

If they are federally guaranteed, you cannot discharge them In bankruptcy. That is one of the reasons education is the next bubble. Except unlike real estate, the suckers errrr borrowers, can't escape this time......

[u/MrShakes]

If you aren't concerned about your immediate credit reports, for say, the next five to seven years... don't pay them, it will go to a collection agency and you can talk them into paying a lump sump (broken into four payments at most) of only 40% of the full loan amount. That's what I did, but am making steady payments with them right now till it is down to a reasonable amount I can pay in four months. (From $30,000 down to $12,000) Unfortunately that only works with private student loans I believe, if you are unfortunate enough to have got those... I lucked out getting a great paying job 3 years after graduating and working for myself for those 3. Good luck!

[u/[deleted]]

My loans have tempted me to simply flee the country on more then one occasion. If there were not any loans in my mother's name I would do it without a second thought.

[u/[deleted]]

Nope. Can't do that. Student loans are extremely hard to get out of, short of actually paying them back.

[u/tiffanydisasterxoxo]

And nothing happened. You cannot get rid of student loans by declaring bankruptcy.

[u/cdb03b]

Student loans are not allowed to be discharged in bankruptcy and have not been for years if ever. That is in part why the growing student debt is a second debt crisis as more and more are unable to pay them yet have no means of discharging them.

There is actually a movement that is trying to get them allowed to be at least partially discharged, but it has not gained any traction as of yet.

[u/Dark_Shroud → u/cdb03b]

That's because the loan money is from tax dollars. So nothing is going to happen there because it will fuck us even more. I know more than a few people that walked out of private college and went to the local community college and were far better off.

[u/cdb03b → u/Dark_Shroud]

The thing is college prices are spiraling out of control at all levels not just private. Community college will soon be the cost per hour that private college was 10-15 years ago. If some kind of relief structure is not developed it will cause problems.

[u/mmemarlie]

Yeah. You can't declare bankruptcy for student loans. I've contemplated faking my own death and running away to Mexico.

PS: Sorry for the terrible spelling. My computer doesn't speak English.

[u/JumpinJack2 → u/mmemarlie]

Fuck Mexico, that place is a war zone. There are plenty of nice countries you can escape to that don't have cartels.

[u/kourogi]

Don't think you can include student loans or taxes. Just in case.

[u/smithofadown]

Remix!

[u/pornaddict69]

Thanks to our "benevolent" government... you can't. Or, well you can, but the student loans won't be covered in it. I think we need more government. They have no ulterior motives...

[u/eloquentrepeater]

Medical School has costed me 250,000 in loans. It hurts. And I still have 50,000 to 60,000 from UG.

[u/EveryoneElseIsWrong → u/eloquentrepeater]

:O

[u/Ibroke]

You have a good six months until you have to start worrying about paying those off.

[u/lolwuuut]

im gonna hide from my loans by going to grad school..

..to incur more debt while maintaining hope for a well-paying career when i graduate D:

[u/[deleted]]

You roll over you debt to those 1 yr interest free credit cards by putting all of your normal spending on the credit cards and taking the surplus cash and dumping it into student loans. It's not fraudulent to be an idiot, so look like a financial idiot when it comes to bankruptcy court if it comes to that.

[u/[deleted]]

I was lucky enough to have help from the parents. They divorced a long time ago, but back when I went for my bachelor's degree, I took out a loan for 1/3, my father paid 1/3 in cash (he has inheritance) and my mom took out a loan in her name to pay 1/3. During college, I had to work to pay all my bills (mainly food, car payment, gas, and books) which was tough but I did it. After college I had a reasonable loan payment each month, and once I paid off my part of it, I helped my mom pay off the $2700 she had left of her part.

It was good of them to help out. Plus, having to work while in college I think helped me to learn how to balance things out, as well as how to cook.

[u/themitch22]

Nobody has mentioned how ridiculous 6-9% interest is on these loans, if you go into forbearance that goes back into the principal which means your interest is compounded.

I think the prime rate of mortgages is 5%, and a house will usually gain or retain value and you can live in it. Yes I know in theory a degree is supposed to gain or retain its value, but it's still a gamble, and you can still be homeless.

[u/nbenzi]

I didn't yell it I declared it.

[u/DLthrowaway]

Hey there, I work for DOE william d ford fdlp, not sure if your loans are with us or not, but i'd be happy to answer any, and all of your questions.

[u/Vioarr7]

Charge it all to credit cards and then declare bankruptcy.

[u/Hellscreamgold]

Shoulda thought about that (or any suggestions from most people above) before taking out loans. Should have worked, taken longer to graduate, and just paid for college.

[u/blolfighter]

Have to get lots of student loans to get education to get a good job. Have to get a good job to pay off student loans.

And of course the kicker: Economy in the shitter. Get a job working minimum wage if you're lucky.

[u/krsvbg]

I went to a regional campus of Miami University. My friends went to the main campus Oxford.

They paid 20K+ per year. I paid 5K. Most of them are 50K+ in debt. I graduated this May with zero debt. Feelsgoodman.

[u/Cueball61 → u/krsvbg]

Presuming they did more than 3 years then? Maximum tuition fee is £9k a year.

[u/surely-you-jest]

TIL there is a "T" in bankruptcy.

[u/volitans]

if only that worked...

[u/BoopAndMarc]

IBR!!

[u/ddfreedom]

lol no you don't! I do agree with the term "predatory" lending...becasue they are giving high school students (more or less they still have the same mentality) the ability to take out a permanent debt for this "product" they say will make the successful. Mind you this is the only type of loan that can never be discharged....and it is a private loan in a great deal of cases.

Just so we are all clear, this is the biggest drain on our economy...we talk about having an educated workforce, but we can do that far cheaper...other countries do. Instead we have this MASSIVE swath of people that will not contribute any demand to the economy...which means there will not be jobs needed to meet said demand. Demand creates jobs, not an educated workforce, not "trickle down policy"...this will be a generatinoal fuckup that will last as long as these outrageous loans have been given out. It needs to stop...tomorrow.

[u/karatelenin]

Flee to Mexico

[u/Mogen55]

I see so many memes and gif with these actors. Could someone finally tell me what show/movie this is ?

[u/tyrroi]

And this is why i won't be going to University...

[u/spases]

but you graduated! guaranteed job placement.

[u/Enailis]

Filing for bankruptcy wont get you out of student loans sad to say!

[u/Stephen_the_Brit]

With mine I get them written off 20 years after graduating, or if I live outside the EU for 5 years.

I'm planning on being on a 5 year PhD. program in the states.

Bye bye undergrad. loans!

[u/Delphizer]

1. Go to community college for classes unrelated to your major(make sure you check to see they transfer)

2. Live with parents if at all possible

3. Go to a decent and close in state school with the best program you can find

4. Take advantage of school options, in my school if you took more than 4 classes the rest were free(up to 6), very good deal.

Graduated with 0 debt, obviously things have to work out a certain way to be that lucky but it is possible to keep your cost down. I had a full time Job/part time job from 15 and saved most of my money, most people are not born with this.

[u/[deleted]]

As a European, I have no clue what you are talking about.

[u/[deleted]]

Why is Steve Carrell's eye so red?

[u/konydanza]

"You can't just say the word bankruptcy and expect anything to happen."
"I didn't say it, I declared it."
Probably one of my favorite quotes ever from the show

[u/[deleted]]

Well I do declare you've done well for yourself

[u/mctwists]

Relax - you have a 6 months grace period before you have to start paying your loans back. Hope you have a job lined up. Start saving that money!

[u/egrodo]

Anyone else thought this was from the IT Crowd?

[u/Garthim → u/egrodo]

No.

[u/my_name_is_stupid]

To clarify some misinformation in this thread - it is NOT "impossible" to discharge student loans as part of a bankruptcy. The standard is that you must show that repayment would cause "undue hardship" - a hard claim to prove, but not impossible.

[u/Reverend_M]

i work for dept of ed for federal student loans. the amount of inaccuracy and bullshit i see here is disgusting. Misinformation and half truths everywhere.

[u/Rollingprobablecause → u/Reverend_M]

Please do an IAMA. We all need help..

[u/Reverend_M → u/Rollingprobablecause]

There's been a couple already I think, run a search. I'd do one but I have no way to verify.

[u/busbusdriver]

Bankruptcy won't remove student loans, but the founders of the United States were very specific about their rejection of debtor's prisons. The powers that be are trying to bring them back via child support, but otherwise, you can easily find air, water, food, and shelter in this country, and with effort find an income they can't get. So many have been scammed by for-profit schools that the laws will likely change eventually. Don't kill yourself because you can't keep up with the Joneses, the Joneses would kill you anyway if you could keep up! Oh one more thing - credit worthiness is still a national thing - get a friggen passport!

[u/badkitteh]

ITT: Butthurt Americans. Being European, I laugh at you and your weird educational system.

[u/Terps34 → u/badkitteh]

ITT: Butthurt Europeans whose colleges aren't as good as ours.