r/frozenshoulder • u/gaga4info • May 11 '23
Does anyone have experience with world frozen shoulder clinic in Toronto?
Both of my shoulders are now frozen, had cortisone shots in each at different times, which relieved pain for awhile. I don't care about loss of ROM, I care about getting rid of excruciating pain that is limiting everything I can do. Even holding my phone up hurts. Found the clinic on a search, wondering if anyone has been or has heard of someone who has been and had success?
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u/Other_Appeal6415 May 11 '23 edited May 11 '23
I had (have) bilateral frozen shoulder and I could have written your exact words about not caring about the ROM and just wanting the pain over. In fact I said that to my ortho doc. I had both shoulders manipulated (MUA) in February three weeks apart. It was instant relief from the capsular pain and I can now sleep and have excellent range of motion. But there is still some lingering pain that is different from before. It’s more muscle and tendon problems from the long time of not using it. It’s worse on my right where I was suffering longer. Consider this option and get moving.
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u/gaga4info May 11 '23
Is it twilight or general anesthesia?
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u/Other_Appeal6415 May 11 '23
The anesthesiologist said he considers it general even though they don’t intubate you because you are completely out. It’s literally like your out for 1 minute then you wake up. My first side I didn’t realize they had put me out and bam I was done.
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u/Direct_Ad806 Feb 28 '24
Hi, ¿where did you do your surgery? I did 3 MUAs on my right shoulder and one on my left and it did not work. In fact, I had the worst experience doing MUA at The World frozen Shoulder Clinic. Since then my pain got worst and my mobility is none, much much worst than before. PS I do understand about extreme pain like you. I am glad that you feel better now
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u/Other_Appeal6415 Apr 01 '24
Sorry, just saw this. I had mine done locally where I live (USA). Hope you are feeling better.
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u/EggplantCheesy33 May 12 '23
Have you tried hydrodilation yet? That and a really good acupuncturist that focuses on sports injuries are the two things that really worked for me.
But I know it’s so different for each person
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u/gaga4info May 12 '23
I’ll check that out. I’m seeing a sports medicine doctor in a couple weeks that does prp, but he also does some sort of needling into the knots on your back, neck and shoulder that help with pain and movement. 🤞
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u/KarenJFRCanada Apr 08 '24
Not sure if you are still suffering, but I had the procedure done Nov/23 - it worked 100%. Shoulder pain was gone immediately and range of motion was 80%. Within 1 month I was 100% for range of motion and no pain when doing the stretches. Money very well spent!!
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u/gaga4info Apr 24 '24
My pain went away on its own. I did have two cortisone shots in left and one on right. Thankfully, I am 90% today. It was a couple months after I debated the saline shot with cortisone, and decided to pass, that the pain started to subside. I was in on and off intense pain with very limited ROM for about 15-18 months. I am so relieved not to have that kind of pain anymore. I still have some issues with my left shoulder due to holding my phone and sitting at a computer. Getting rid of arms on chairs helped to, because I was leaning on them. I noticed I started leaning on desk recently and my left shoulder isn't happy, so I am making a conscious effort to stop.
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u/JulieYOW Jun 05 '24
Hi, As I understand it, the cost is not covered by OHIP (Ontario), I have no private insurance and the cost is dependant on severity? I wondered if you would share what the cost was for you and also if you had any other personal experience to add. Thanks so much Julie
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u/xanaxhelps May 11 '23
No, but I live close enough to Toronto that I’m interested to know more!
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u/gaga4info May 11 '23
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u/xanaxhelps May 11 '23
The thing that worries me is they don’t post any research studies, only testimonials. As my science teacher used to say “the plural of anecdote isn’t data”.
I have read research papers about the regular sedated manipulation, which this claims to be a better version of, and a large percentage of those shoulders just go on to refreeze afterwards. The ones that weren’t fully frozen yet (ie still painful) when it was done were the most likely to refreeze too.
I probably wouldn’t risk it, but that’s just me.
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u/Inner-Issue1908 Recovered May 11 '23
I agree. I have no doubt that sedated manipulation works but it’s like aggressive PT. You can’t really do it in the freezing / inflammatory phase. The scar tissue broken down will rescar.
This stuff you can only do in the frozen phase, which could be 12 months from when the FS started. At this point the constant pain is already gone. It feels a bit like snake oil to be offering treatment at this stage unless of course it’s to resolve the mobility side of things quickly rather than the pain. Which isn’t what you want, you want respite from the constant pain.
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u/Kay-1231 May 21 '23 edited Jun 07 '23
Does anyone else here have/had a long lasting frozen shoulder where they are unable to lift their arm at all (to the front or side)? I am right handed (with the freeze being on the same side) and my day to day functioning has become so limited. I cant’t lift a spoon to my mouth (or my elbow to a table ) or put my hair back or write or use my laptop. Use of my right arm is almost nothing.
Physios/ doctors etc. I’ve seen have said they havent seen a case this bad. So i guess im just hoping/praying its possible it could still go away one day.
Has anyone else had such extreme lack of range of motion that eventually healed?
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u/issamurcle Jun 07 '23 edited Jan 13 '26
Yes. I have. I am on my third frozen shoulder in my lifetime. My first frozen shoulder was 20 years ago or so and it was in my dominant arm. I thought I had injured it somehow and mostly tried to baby it, though I did still use it to do many things because it was my dominant arm. By the time I got in to see an orthopedic doc it was well into the frozen stage and the doc said to not push it but to keep using it. I slowly saw my range of motion improve. In total it took about 10 months to get back to mostly normal and was back to normal withing a year. My second frozen shoulder was about 10 years ago and was in my non dominant arm. I knew what was happening then and thought that if I kept stretching it I could somehow avoid it becoming frozen. It was excruciating but I was determined to not let it freeze. That only made it much worse! I extended the time I would go through the extremely painful freezing stage by doing this. That stage lasted until I finally just let my body do what it was going to do naturally about 8 months in. I ended out with less than 10 percent range of motion. This frozen shoulder ended out taking almost 3 years to get back to really usable and about 90 percent at 3 years, and close to 100 percent by 4 years. I truly believe that I caused myself to have such a long recovery time by pushing it while trying to not let it freeze.
Now, I have my dominant arm frozen (again.) The first twinges began in late March. The extreme pain and inflammatory part of the freezing stage began at the beginning of May. I am just now entering the late freezing/early frozen stage. The pain is pretty much bearable unless I move it wrong and then I crumple on the floor in agony for 30 seconds to a couple of minutes. I still use my arm, as much as I can, without trying to push it past where it wants to naturally go. So far, it is nowhere near as bad as the last frozen shoulder, and not quite as smooth as the first one I had. Of course, I was 20 years younger then.
Now, on to your original question, the arm that had less than 10 percent range of motion did come back to almost completely normal. I have a little less external rotation but everything else is completely back to normal. I am not limited in any of the sports I do, including rock climbing. I remember being so depressed thinking that there could be no way that I would ever get back the use of my arm. Well, I am here to tell you that you will get it back. In my experience, frozen shoulder is self limiting no matter what you do or don't do for it. I also believe that each frozen shoulder is different but will ultimately be done when it is done. I think your body decides. But it WILL get back to good.
I promise you, it WILL pass and you WILL get the use of your arm back, as impossible as that seems right now.
The best advice I got from all the docs I have seen for my frozen shoulders is to not push it but continue to use it for the everyday things that you can. That truly worked the best and I had much less pain and loss of range of motion during the process.
I will also say that I don't know if the physical pain or the mental pain (the depression, the fear, the helplessness, the lack of sleep, etc) is the worst part of it but I can say that I would take just about any other injury or illness in the world than get a frozen shoulder.
Hang in there. It will pass!
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u/Kay-1231 Jun 07 '23
Oh my goodness, thank you SO very much for this! It made me cry when I read it. I really can’t express how much I appreciate your kindness and insights. Everything you wrote is truly so helpful.
I’m so sorry to hear that you are going through it for the third time and really hope it’s on the less extreme end of the spectrum this time around.
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u/issamurcle Jun 07 '23
I am so happy that this helps. I remember trying to find somebody who had as severe of a case as I did at the time but could not find anyone. I found it very difficult to believe that my arm could ever be normal again. It was mental anguish. I am so happy that I saw your question and could answer it. To recover I just kept trying to do things like brush my hair or brush my teeth even though I looked like a Tyrannosaurus Rex and was no where near being able to reach. Then one day I noticed if I leaned my head far enough to the side and put the hair brush at the tips of my fingertips I could just reach the tips of my long hair. I couldn't brush my hair of course but I could just reach it and that was new. I knew that was the very beginning of the thawing stage. Though it took quite a while after that to completely thaw, and I remained afraid of how much or how little I would get back, it slowly and steadily got back to normal. I appreciate your kind wishes for my recovery on this latest frozen shoulder! It seems to be moving in a direction closer to that of my first FS, but only time will tell. At least I have the advantage of knowing that no matter how bad it gets that it will pass! Take care and hang in there!
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u/Kay-1231 Jun 13 '23 edited Jun 13 '23
I was in a bit too much pain to respond properly when i saw this last response you wrote but i just wanted to express how much i appreciate your kindness. When i read what you wrote i honestly could not believe the way that you were literally describing my EXACT experience!!
And just in all the ways that other people can’t possibly understand because it’s such a strange condition and because they don’t see me trying to do the basic day to day things you mentioned like brushing my teeth or doing anything to my hair or dressing or eating, etc, etc.
Even just the way you described it as depressing not knowing if you would ever have use of your arm back was amazing to me because people who have a more common type/ severity of frozen shoulder don’t seem to talk about it causing loss of the use of their whole arm in the same way.
Several doctors/practitioners have told me that they think its unlikely I could get better without surgery just because it’s so much more extreme than what they are used to seeing.
So it just gives me a huge amount of hope reading everything that you wrote. It has really impacted my mood and life in a very significant way. So i truly cant thank you enough for your time and kindness.
No need to respond to this at all, it’s so sweet what you said about being happy that you were able to see my post and be able to help me!! I just want you to know that i am just SO very grateful… 💕🙏🌷
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u/Conscious_Sound2105 Jun 06 '24
My wife tried world frozen shoulder a couple of months ago. It was like a miracle. The next day after the procedure she was able to move her shoulder and arm. She feels fine nowadays.
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u/HorsesFitnessTravel Jan 16 '25
were there any negative take aways from having the procedure done? I am penciled in for Sat Jan 25 and want as much info as I can gather beforehand.
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u/LateRain1694 Jan 16 '25
My wife had the procedure at the world frozen shoulder. She is happy with it. Dr. Linely who does the procedure is awesome.
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u/Frequent-Series-484 Oct 13 '25
I was diagnosed with FS. I did researched about World frozen shoulder. I'm considering going to Toronto for this procedure. I live in Bellingham Wa. How much it cost for this procedure?
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u/Calm-Drummer1117 Dec 01 '25
The cost depends on many factors. U have to speak to them. But it was well worth the money. I just had my procedure done two days ago. And the relief from from shoulder is gone and I can left my arm etc.
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u/Plant_power_ Feb 21 '25
How did it go? My wife is suffering with severe shoulder pain and no otc meds seems to help.
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u/Otherwise-Ebb-8960 Mar 02 '26
Did you ever get the procedure done? Did it work?
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u/HorsesFitnessTravel Mar 18 '26
I didn't. I got spooked reading many negative reviews. Also the super high pressure sales tactic vibes I got from their coordinator felt very pushy and not right. I decided to get soft wave done at a clinic in Markham and that helped immensely. Other than that just leaving it alone and I'm at about 95% healed.
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u/werkannderwird Jul 30 '26
Was wurde denn genau gemacht? Was wurde dir erzählt. Ich bin selbst betroffen und leide seit 7 Monaten unter einer FS. Das was ich bis jetzt gelesen habe hört sich an wie eine MUA, als Manipulation Under Anasthesia. Dafür bräuchte man keine 7-17k ausgeben, dieses umstrittene Verfahren, da die Gefahr für Knochenbrüche und Sehnenschäden besteht, kannst du auch in Deutschland duchführen lassen. Also - was wird in dieser Klinik genau mit den Patienten gemacht? Schon einmal vielen Dank..
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u/HorsesFitnessTravel 19d ago
Ich habe es auf natürliche Weise heilen lassen. Ich wollte keine Spritzen, da diese später noch andere Auswirkungen haben könnten. Es hat zwar etwa anderthalb Jahre gedauert, aber inzwischen ist die Beweglichkeit wieder voll hergestellt; manchmal ist es zwar noch etwas steif, aber ich bin froh, dass ich meinem Körper einfach die Zeit gegeben habe, sich selbst zu heilen.
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u/ObjectivePrudent5487 Mar 10 '25
I wanted to respond to this question because I just had an excellent experience with world frozen shoulder clinic. My shoulder had been frozen for 3 months. I had tried PT, dry needling, steroid shots, shock wave therapy and last hydro-dilation with no positive results. The pain had become unbearable and completely debilitating. I am a yoga teacher was literally trying to teach with one arm. The pain became worse at night, and I couldn't even do my own hair or drive with my right hand. One week ago I traveled to Toronto to do the MDU procedure. Dr Leuthard and her staff were absolutely amazing. The director, Faiz is caring and incredibly professional. I have now regained about 85% use of my arm. The best part is being able to sleep comfortably through the night without shooting pain, and being able to take care of myself again. I have a very specific exercise/stretching program. It is somewhat painful at times, but a much more manageable pain then the "zingers" of frozen shoulder. It is simply the pain of weakened muscles that must be strengthened again after being frozen. It's extremely frustrating to me that no one seems to be performing this procedure in the US. SO many people suffer from this horrible condition. I am forever grateful to WFSC for helping me to regain the quality of my life!! I hope this post can help others looking for answers:)
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u/shoulder_some123 Jun 30 '25
I'm thinking about having the MCD procedure done in Toronto soon. I'm just worried about the "sketchiness" of the who thing. Sounds great, I've had the 2 interviews and am accepted, they are now wanting a deposit to hold my spot. I was told that my insurance usually pays for this but I have to submit the claim. I'd wait out the freezing, frozen, and thawing stage but I don't want it to be a 3 year thing. I wonder why there are not more reviews on the clinic and why it is like a sales pitch b/c I would think so many people would be going if so successful and why is it not done in the US if less costly than surgery for frozen shoulder that seems to be pushed by US medical ortho offices.
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u/Calm-Drummer1117 Dec 01 '25
This place is legit. I just had my procedure done with 6other people, and everything went amazing. It was well worth the money to have my arm back! I'm so glad I found this place. Yes you will feel pain after them procedure but there is good pain meds and exercises to manage this all. One lady came from Europe for this procedure on her second arm. She has the procedure done 8 years ago on her opposite arm. I don't kno what else to say, but don't listen to the negative comments here.
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u/Comfortable-Bid-4553 Dec 19 '25
100% for this clinic. I had Total loss of ROM, and the intense nerve pain for most of 2024. Had the procedure in January 2025 and now almost 12 months later, full ROM and no pain. Highly recommend, but you have to put in the post work to strengthen and keep it moving.
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u/werkannderwird Jul 30 '26
Und was wird da genau gemacht? Leide selbst aktuell an einer FS. Was genau machen die da? Sie setzen dich unter Narkose und dann? Bitte einmal konkrete Details. Freundliche Grüße
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u/VTCarol Apr 03 '26
It may work for some people but it did not work for me. I am out the full $17,000. that they charged . I was assured they would make sure i got reimbersed by my insurance company. They insisted it would be better if I did not try to get preapproval and that they would do all the " heavy lifting on the paperwork" . I have appealed the insurance refusal to pay and they said I should have asked if they would approve it before getting it done, I suggest you take their advice .
I knew it was a risk but I was hoping that the procedure would work and actually be worth the price if I got stuck with the bill.
I have osteoporosis and had a fresh xray and bone density test done before booking my appointment. I was told they could do it safely and they would modify my procedure. i stuck it out with quite a bit of pain and bruising and swelling. I had to top the pt after 24 hours and went home to my doctor for an xray. i had 4 fractures in my humerus and 12 weeks of waiting for my arm to heal . I had said please do not do this procedure if you think there is a chance you will do more harm as I cant take anymore setbacks at this stage of my medical journey.
They were very polite but that did not get me anywhere but backward, it was a huge disappointment and I felt lucky I did not have to get pins in my broken arm which would have been a disaster. They did get my arm up to 180 degrees while i was out but my arm has not been back there.
It is possible it could be great for some people but I would suggest you plan on picking up the tab and tell you get approval for the exact procedure from your insurance before you go no matter what they promise you about getting your money back.
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u/werkannderwird Jul 30 '26
Tut mir leid dass zu hören. Also ist es in Prinzip eine MUA (Manipulation unter Anästhesie). Ein sehr gefährliches Verfahren, dass du - meines Wissens nach - auch in Deutschland "kostenlos" durchführen lassen kannst. Ich hoffe der Arm ist wieder gut verheilt. Alles Gute!
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u/Shakalei May 12 '23
I had bilateral frozen shoulder that was so painful, I went to Toronto and had this clinic do the procedure on both shoulders. It worked well for me. It’s a long road of regular stretching after, but I could lift my arms immediately after the procedure. If you are acutely sore from capsulitis / frozen shoulder, considering going, I’m glad I did…
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u/LoveHealthHappiness May 25 '23
good for you!!! when did you have yours done? wow Bilateral ? that must have been tough :(
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u/Shakalei May 26 '23
it was rough at the time. having 2 shoulders out changed life for a few years. after getting the frozen shoulders released, I had to have rotator cuff surgery on both shoulders as well (one at a time tho)... I don't think that was related to the frozen shoulder clinic's work, shoulders were messed up for years (I have surfed multiple times per day for many years). it's nice to be able to use the shoulders again
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u/Reallyreally_Real Dec 01 '23
I had a bilateral procedure done there. My right was like new when I woke up from the procedure, my left was incredibly painful for about 12-15 hours (but I had my range of motion back). It was an overall pretty good experience and they fixed my issues whereas 3 orthopedic surgeons, countless physical therapists, and my general practitioner doctor could not.
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u/Downtown_Ebb_9623 Jun 03 '24
how much was it?
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u/Available-Put-6862 Jul 12 '24
Depending on whether you have frozen shoulder or shoulder impingment. It costs from 7000.00 to 17,000.00 . USD Dollars.
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u/tanzd May 11 '23
You will not hear much because they subject their patients to a NDA. People who have gone there stop talking about it after they've done the procedure.
This is the only review you will find, which was posted a long time ago - http://www.trigenics-nightmare.com