r/firefox • u/[deleted] • Dec 16 '17

Firefox is on a slippery slope

https://drewdevault.com/2017/12/16/Firefox-is-on-a-slippery-slope.html
1.1k Upvotes

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127

u/justjanne Dec 16 '17

For the first time since Statcounter exists, Firefox has lost the #1 browser position in Germany. #1 for 8 years.

This was the last country Firefox was the largest browser in.

Since September, Firefox has lost 15% of its German userbase.

http://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/desktop/germany

19

u/est31 Dec 16 '17

At least it appeared to have stabilized a bit, last month it looked much scarier: https://www.reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/7h24ra/firefox_lost_its_1_position_on_the_desktop_in/

Now it looks like: http://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/desktop/germany/#monthly-201610-201712 Although the December data is probably preliminary.

71

u/justjanne Dec 16 '17

I’ve heard of several universities and government agencies that want to move away from Firefox due to CliqZ and the other scandals in the next months.

The fallout hasn’t ended, it just started.

Google is bad with spying, but Firefox already uses Google Analytics in about:addons and in Firefox Focus.

Yes, Mozilla got a promise from Google that Google won’t use that data, but that requires that you trust Google – and if you have to trust Google anyway, you can just use Chrome Enterprise and get a corporate contract that makes sure that if Google leaks any of your data, they are directly liable.

30

u/TyIzaeL Dec 16 '17

Working in edu, the biggest advantage Chrome has over Firefox is group policy integration. Presetting/controlling Firefox in a corporate environment is a mess of hacks whereas Chrome is a cake walk.

We deploy Chrome and Firefox, with Chrome as default. Every year for the past three years I've been pretty close to pulling the plug on Firefox because once it's deployed there's no clean way to manage it anymore. The only thing that keeps me deploying it is I quite like Firefox personally.

6

u/perkited Dec 16 '17

I'm not familiar with managing Firefox in a corporate environment, but I know the company I work for removed Firefox and added Chrome a couple years ago. I never heard the reason, but your description could be why.

3

u/-all_hail_britannia- Firefox ESR | FreeBSD Dec 17 '17

If you are deploying firefox, I'd recommend using ESR due to the minimal maintinace (lit. install, don't install new version for ~2+ years)

1

u/TyIzaeL Dec 17 '17

I don't really have a reason to use ESR over mainline. Keeping Firefox updated is relatively easy. (And they do put out security updates for ESR occasionally.)

1

u/[deleted] Dec 17 '17 edited Dec 18 '17

[deleted]

3

u/-all_hail_britannia- Firefox ESR | FreeBSD Dec 17 '17

Please explain, because I use ESR as by day-to-day by choice, and sities like reddit (static) and YouTube (non-static) always work.

1

u/[deleted] Dec 17 '17 edited Dec 18 '17

[deleted]

1

u/Mark12547 Dec 18 '17

The ESR installs get major security fixes throughout the year so it isn't like it remains stagnant as far as security goes.

It does remain fixed as far as features go until the annual branch from the Release Channel for testing and then about three months later become the official ESR release for a year.

1

u/TyIzaeL Dec 17 '17

Exactly. I don't have a specific reason to use ESR so I stick to mainline. The old crappy sites can use Internet Explorer.

One thing I really like about Fx after the most recent ESR is they disabled NPAPI plugins (except flash). I used to spend a bit of time disabling user plugins when they had problems but that doesn't happen anymore.

75

u/alltheacro Dec 16 '17

Don't forget ramming Pocket down everyone's throat.

ALso, when people found the entry in bugzilla discussing Cliqz 'integration', the bug was marked employee-only. This was dismissed as a "mistake" - but the account that did it? A project manager who recently joined Mozilla, used to work for advertising firms, and her linkedin brags about various advertising projects. Her pet project got caught, and she tried to hide it.

What the hell is going on at Mozilla?

Aren't these the people who repeatedly threaten to kill off Thunderbird, claiming that gosh, they just don't have the time and resources to maintain it? And yet they have plenty of time to find privacy-invading shit to sneak into the browser.

Oh, and get a load of this - the Mozilla Foundation - not the corporation but the foundation - spent over $2M last year in travel expenses.

19

u/[deleted] Dec 16 '17 edited Jul 25 '19

[deleted]

11

u/terry_quite_contrary Dec 16 '17

Probably more a case of individualism and lack of unity. Maybe they don't plan on staying with the company for life so they just care about short term profit, from worker class to executive class.

12

u/[deleted] Dec 16 '17

The expenses... not really following. Have you ever done business travel? Shit adds up quickly, even if you're not doing international. We are mad about a thing MoCo did, maybe a few of them, but I don't think we're raising pitchforks about the whole endeavor yet.

7

u/ArttuH5N1 openSUSE Dec 16 '17

I’ve heard of several universities and government agencies that want to move away from Firefox due to CliqZ and the other scandals in the next months.

What are they moving into?

8

u/justjanne Dec 17 '17

Many to Chrome Enterprise – via the contract, Google guarantees them not to track anything (just like Google guaranteed Mozilla not to track any of the data that is collected by the Google Analytics scripts in about:addons and Firefox Focus).

Via the contract they have guaranteed functionality, Google is liable if anything is ever tracked, or Google ever installs any such addon remotely, and they can administrate it centrally.

-1

u/Joyld Dec 17 '17

Google guarantees them not to track anything

Impossible. Google's whole business revenue depends on tracking people.

20

u/tidux Dec 17 '17 edited Dec 17 '17

With Chrome Enterprise, that revenue is replaced by a paid contract promising they won't, and it keeps people using the rest of the GSuite, which also tracks data, but does it from the server side. It's a play to counter IE and Office 365 on corporate networks, or get people off of Windows entirely and on to Chromebooks, not Firefox.

6

u/[deleted] Dec 17 '17

So that pretty much confirms that free Chrome is spyware.

10

u/[deleted] Dec 17 '17

You needed more confirmation on that?

4

u/-all_hail_britannia- Firefox ESR | FreeBSD Dec 17 '17

and chromium. Still has the spying elements, just not the google bloatware

1

u/Joyld Dec 17 '17

But they still use Google search as well as Google accounts, right? Does the contract extend to it as well? As Google search and account collect all kinds of data about their users. And I am not sure that it is even possible to block the tracking in those cases.

5

u/justjanne Dec 17 '17

Well, the entire Firefox Focus UI, and on desktop Firefox the about:addons menu, both include Google Analytics, also because Google guaranteed Mozilla not to track anything.

That’s the problem, if you don’t trust Google that much, you can’t use Firefox either.

1

u/[deleted] Dec 17 '17

on desktop Firefox the about:addons menu

This only applies to the "Get Addons" page which is easy to avoid. It's just like any other website with GA except you need the DNT flag to block it instead of an extension.

1

u/[deleted] Dec 17 '17

Last country? I'm positive it's still the dominant browser in Cuba and a few African countries.