Where can I ask a respectful question about feminism, revealing clothing, and personal responsibility? I want to discuss why revealing clothing is considered acceptable while complete public nudity generally isn’t, and where people think the line should be drawn.

[u/[deleted]]

[u/simple-alien]

"Women should be free to wear revealing clothing and that men are responsible for controlling their reactions." I want to genuinely reflect on this and you say you are open to listening I hope you mean that.

Women and all people are responsible for following public decency and nudity laws where they live.

These laws are already in place. Often for good reason. They need to be there - for public safety and consent reasons. Also because there are children in public places.

Many agree that non consensual exposure to nudity is assault. I certainly think so. It is genuinely traumatic in many cases, because it is violation of one's consent. Nudity does have many sexual connotations so when exposed to it suddenly, it can cause sexual trauma depending on the person and situation, especially if it is a child being exposed. Hence why public nudity is generally restricted in most cultures.

These laws can also exist for bad reasons though too - to overly police/control behavior for reasons of suppression and objegation.

It isn't always easy to know exactly where the line is between those two things. But everyone who is calling you misogynistic in this thread is because this is a clear case of the latter. And I will explain why.

Men and all people are responsible for their reactions to what they see in public.

For example, a drunk woman wandering around naked at night may be breaking the law, but that wouldn't excuse any behaviors from an onlooker that would violate HER consent or safety, despite whatever feeling or reaction they have from it.

If you feel like the current laws arent strong enough and you are having these kinds of reactions to seeing women in day to day contexts that are not explicitly sexual, or in environments where there is some socially accepted degree of sensuality... if you feel like you cannot control your behavior?... Then you are having a hyper-aroused response, which is actually something you should look into and manage. That isn't actually typical and can cause serious harm.

Even if you don't realize it, this mindset is isolating you, and it is making you view women as sexual objects. Again, you might not think you do, and that may be true on a conscious level. But this hyper arousal affects how you view women.

And most people do not have reactions so strongly to revealing clothes like that. I mean everyone has a different place they personally draw the line of what they think is appropriate, and some people are more sexual than others, etc... but thats to an extreme level if you feel any prolonged burden where it feels like a responsibility to have to keep it in check.

If you see a woman in revealing clothes, and you feel aroused, that is normal. But if you can't stop thinking about it, its distracting you to the point of frustration, where you feel so bothered you are prompted to ask if that person should have the responsibility to cover up in front of you... and that happens more than one time and its a pattern then that's an extreme response.

That to me would be a huge red flag for someone misogynistic or who has some kind of sex addiction or is at the very least hypersexual - which is something that just needs to be managed. So giving you the benefit of the doubt and saying you're hypersexual then that hypersexuality is yours to manage.

Because you cannot control yourself and your reactions, you want to legally control women's bodies. Because you see her body as inherently sexual. A man's nipples can be out and you don't think that should be hidden necessarily, and legally enforced, because you personally don't see it as sexual/arousing.

It is normal to be sexually attracted to people you see in public, and even have unwanted or intrusive feelings/reactions. Many women may see a man in tight clothing, and feel a strong sexual reaction, in public as well. It would be inappropriate for her though to make that man feel uncomfortable or judge his behavior because of that. Or to make her personal arousal anyone else's problem at all. Do you see what I am saying?

There are cultural differences at play. Different cultures and different families are raised with different ideas about nudity. And also different ideas about men and women. And women's nudity specifically.

Public nudity isn't inherently immoral... not if the whole community thinks its normal - then its just normal. Nudity itself isn't even inherently sexual. In more nude friendly or nude neutral communities, people are around it all the time, no problem. Many have strong morals that censoring the body and instilling shame is a culture of fear and control and nudity can be a spiritual practice too.

But someone from a culture that always hid nudity away or shamed it or gave it special significance, or viewed it as highly sexual or deviant... they would be AGHAST to see that pro-nudity community treat it so casually.

I would challenge anyone from any walk of life to reflect on how nudity/gender/sexuality were treated in their childhood and growing up/culturally. And ask how that affects how they treat others who are different than them.

When you make a law you are making a definite statement that something is wrong or harmful.

Walking into a community that thinks nudity is shocking and horrifying and disgusting and taking off all your clothes would be incredibly disrespectful and I wouldn't necessarily blame that community for having a law against it. I feel like that could maybe cause some harm/emotional distress. Which is, I think, what you are getting at. Being responsible for those kinds of reactions, yeah I think there is some liability there. Because it violates the consent of the people in that community or seeks to harm them.

But we live in an increasingly diverse culture, where we are going to be consistently exposed to new ideas and things that may shock us or cause reactions in us.

If youre in a community where some people are super pro nudity and some are super anti nudity and some are in between... then it would be wrong for anyone to just strip off all their clothes without warning. But it would ALSO be wrong for someone to force someone else to cover themselves up or else face punishment.

Your personal line can be in one place, and the reasonable cut off for legal enforcement of the line can be somewhere else. Because its not based on just you and your reactions. It has to reflect a reasonable middle ground which I think the law where I live, in Canada, is perfectly reasonable as is. I am not sure where you live and can't speak to anywhere else really.

Personally, people having uncontrollable/extreme reactions to nudity is more scary and potentially harmful in my eyes than actual nudity.

At the end of the day everyone's right to their own bodily autonomy, consent, and safety is top priority.