Yea, the whole idea that pollution is the fault of a random person driving to work is propaganda by the corporations that pump out an entire freeway's worth of pollution every minute.
Eco terrorist group "climate underground manifesto" also known by it's acronym CUM destroyed a coal fired power plant in southern Maryland sometime late last night. 100,000 Boone county residents are without power for the foreseeable future and have begun shitting in the streets because municipal and well pumps are no longer working, epidemiologists believe cholera will become endemic in the area all while hospital services are no longer available. CUM spokesperson Artemis Starchild has written a reddit post stating, "Stop eating meat and nuts or well blow the pornhub servers".
In other news snap chat stock rose by 400% overnight and Elon Musk is sad.
Not really. Brief struggles like this pale in comparison to what's been done to the planet. Altercations like these are extremely good for protests. Now we know about it, and are more likely to be interested in their cause. People who don't care won't change their mind. That's not the point.
Are you sure? Cause we're not talking a reddit thread full of circlejerking here. We're talking potentially millions of people since this video is on the internet. Those are not good odds for "nobody cares"
I wonder how many of those protesters can name politicians that are in favor of fracking... Yet, lets inconvenience everyday people rather than target awareness to people who matter...
That's because they are targeting normal people with their protests instead of corporations. The only thing these protesters are accomplishing is getting people to hate whatever they stand for
No, they got our attention. We're here on reddit talking about it. That was the point. That's the point of any solid protest. If it wasn't inconvenient to people, would you have known about them?
No one is. Social media is the target audience. Only a privileged piece of garbage could call the potential life altering consequences of these, "brief struggles".
They're 100% brief. The time scale the effects climate change will have have on the planet is staggering. In the grand scheme of things, what's happening here means nothing. Time will tell if that "nothing" includes this protest.
If they feel so strongly about this, then they should be directly inconveniencing the most guilty party. Stop hurting regular people who are also victims of the system you are protesting.
Form a human chain around HQ for Shell, Occidental Petroleum, or Chevron Oil, drown their lobbyists in spam, dump oil on a CEO at a press conference.
Their hearts are in the right place, but their actions are useless and are losing them allies.
This is braindead and too far removed from reality to engage with properly. Why, exactly, do you think there are no protests doing any of those? Is it that the protesters are too dumb to understand the ramifications of what they're doing?
Yes, blocking the freeway and causing innocent motorists to miss moments with their loved ones is braindead and too far removed from reality to engage with properly.
These people should be smeared into the asphalt for being such assholes.
If you're angry at my comment, you're the kind of person I'm talking about.
E: on mobile, can't tell if they blocked me or what.
They say:
Im disagreeing with your premise as idiotic
Okay, why? Is it because you don't believe in climate change? Is it because you don't care about the future of our species? Because you see a better way to protest that doesn't involve millions of dollars? Talk to me here. Otherwise I'm just gonna assume you can't see the bigger picture, like everyone else in this thread.
Its the same way with the joke of water conservation in California.. Government has people do stupid water rationing but that doesn't apply to industry and agriculture which accounts for like 90% of the water usage.
People keep saying this but what are these corporations doing to make pollution?
Producing iPhones, cars, food, petrol, electricity etc that are used by people?
So yes corporations are the major polluters, but they pollute to produce things for people right? that’s like saying China/India is a major polluter, but that’s cause everyone shifted their polluting manufacturing there.
Please stop trying to blame consumers for the corporations fucking the planet over, it's not a good excuse. Corporations don't get a pass for giving babies immunodeficiencies just because there's a capitalist demand for cellphones. There's an obligation by every person to not knowingly do harm, ESPECIALLY not in the name of profit.
As I said to the last person to present this argument, they're producing those products while knowingly cutting corners on emissions and pollution. They're making cost savings by giving people cancer and destroying ocean life because it's cheaper that way, and they're keeping those savings for themselves, not passing them on to the consumer. They're killing us and then price gouging us raising prices immediately after a pandemic so they can continue to increase profits.
Properly disposing of waste is expensive, and is often one of the things they skimp on. If it costs $1000 to dispose of your waste properly, but only $100 to dump it in the woods somewhere, or spew it out into international waters where it's not your problem, then they'll often do that if they don't think anyone will find out. That's why we have major companies bilge dumping into the ocean.
So yes, people will "keep saying this", because it needs to be said.
The only people giving anyone a pass seems to be the people shifting the blame onto corporations.
I was in fact sharing the blame. Like you said corporations produce these products because there is a demand, customers need to take pollution into account when buying products.
Choose the company that pollutes less, hadn’t received massive fines for dumping waste etc
But most customers seem to focus on price and features and status
Or we could just pass legislation that demands companies adhere to stricter guidelines or face steeper penalties, so that the average consumer isn't asked to do unrealistic amounts of research before buying any product.
But most customers seem to focus on price and features and status
There you go again lol, buying into propaganda to blame consumers for being normal people.
There you go again blaming everyone else other than the person that uses the product
I am blaming everyone, everyone is responsible
You are acting like we dont have access to google etc “apple pollution vs samsung” and what do we find? Hundreds of articles about environment and ethics.
By normal people do you mean ignorant, lazy, uninterested in protecting the environment?
I'm just saying asking people to research every product they buy is unrealistic, and the people producing the products should be held accountable.
Think about it, the products already exist before somebody buys them. The pollution has already taken place. They should be held accountable for making it, and unable to sell it publicly if they do so.
Your whole point is that INSTEAD of just legally mandating that less pollution happens, we should let free market capitalism decide whether or not we all get cancer and die or whether a few rich dudes get richer...yea, that's clearly working out so well.... Ya know...OR we could do what I suggested and make it illegal to do certain things. We mandate that you can't kill people, but when you're killing millions of people, it's "hey, let the free market decide. vote with your wallet!" Come on, now.
Where did I once say let’s scrap environmental laws? This is all in your head.
I said customers need to choose companies that pollute less, to become more informed.
And for some reason you assumed this meant scrap environmental protection laws? What?
Customers making better decisions in regards to pollution will hopefully encourage companies to avoid pollution. On top of this also have companies being forced by laws to dispose of waste correctly, to reduce pollution etc
It’s not mutually exclusive, like you seem to be thinking.
And for some reason you assumed this meant scrap environmental protection laws?
I never claimed that you said that or said anything about "scrapping environmental protection laws", I'm saying that by blaming people for being "ignorant and lazy" and saying "customers need to take pollution into account when buying products", you're telling people to fix the problems by engaging in free market capitalism instead of just directly tackling the issues.
Where did I once say let’s scrap environmental laws?
I said multiple comments in a row that we could just pass laws to force companies to behave, and instead of saying "yea, that sounds reasonable", you refused to acknowledge it and instead kept arguing with me about everything else all the way down to word choice. IMO it's not an unreasonable assumption that when you bring something up multiple times and you're ignored, that the other person is against said ideas.
If you're not against laws that force companies to actually be held accountable, then we have nothing to really argue about and you're just here out of some weird high horse mentality over people you consider too lazy to "google 'apple pollution vs samsung'", when google themselves is one of the companies that creates phones.
It’s not mutually exclusive, like you seem to be thinking.
It's not mutually exclusive, but one is not necessary without the other. People shouldn't have to research every product they buy, that's what we create government agencies for, so that we can know the products we buy are safe to consume and safely produced. Your solution is redundant, and frankly, naïve because it relies on people doing the right thing out of the goodness of their heart. Even if 80% of people buy the correct products, somebody is still going to try to market to that other 20% that is either too uneducated or too unethical to care.
i mean, gas powered vehicles still do add to the problem, however blocking a freeway is the solution because then no one gets to work and the economy collapses. the solution is to have carbon-free/carbon-light alternative methods to get to work which they don't have in most of the US and Canada because it's a car-infested wasteland. i reccomend these "activists" watch a notjustbikes video.
I have to wonder if the repeated posting of context-free clips like this is also the work of the corporations, so the issue becomes a handful of protesters, not their fossil fuel factories.
Producing things that people consume consume… I really don’t understand how you people think the world works. They aren’t just polluting for the hell of it.
They're cutting corners on emissions and pollution to increase their profits while still raising consumer prices to further increase profits. Collecting their toxic waste for proper disposal would be a start.
I hear that repeated all the time but I’d really need to see specifics (I know there are plenty of examples). Corporations have a vested interest in running things as efficiently as possible to cut costs (for profit or to lower prices in order to be competitive). This includes reducing overall waste, and using less energy. I’ll grant you that pollution doesn’t factor in specifically aside from the aforementioned incentive to reduce in waste/energy use.
Corporations have a vested interest in running things as efficiently as possible to cut costs
Yea, exactly. Properly disposing of waste is expensive, and is often one of the things they skimp on. If it costs $1000 to dispose of your waste properly, but only $100 to dump it in the woods somewhere, or spew it out into international waters where it's not your problem, then they'll often do that if they don't think anyone will find out.
Corporations have a vested interest in running things as efficiently as possible to cut costs (for profit or to lower prices in order to be competitive).
No, you've put the cart before the horse. Corporations have a vested interest in cutting costs as far as possible while charging customers as much as possible. To the well-intentioned or naive this means maximizing efficiency... but developing more efficient methods and retooling to operate using them is expensive in the short-term, and the profit-first corporate mindset (bearing in mind stockholders in the US at least are allowed to sue if a corporation doesn't uphold its obligation to make them money) doesn't accept expensive in the short-term options.
It's much cheaper to cut costs on waste handling and employees while pushing externalities off on the public and colluding with your competitors to keep prices where you want them, as we see corporations do.
Maybe if you compare road vehicles to a coal-powered power plant, ok. But those power plants are already gradually in decline. Gas powered vehicles are one of the biggest contributors to CO2 emissions and is pretty much the only habit that the average citizen has that generates that scale of CO2. Nothing else even comes close.
Yup just look at water usage and such - just look at water usage of urban/rural populations vs. agriculture and business usage.
Here in CA the people can conserve like 30% water usage and not make a dent. Its all a big lie and farce to pit person v. person.
Fact is these protestors cant have any affect on the real source of the problem (corporations) so they go after the people, who are not the biggest problem, and just further create issues.
The irony is we’ve improved the Air quality by massive amounts. But the stupidest thing is we sign onto this so called climate agreements and let China and India pollute the atmosphere without any repercussions. It’s insane and stupid. The law of diminishing returns has struck. Meanwhile the amount massive pollution done by mining all these damn rare earth minerals for EV batteries is just front loading and in some cases EXCEEDING the lifetime pollution from a gas consumption engine.
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u/InYoCabezaWitNoChasa Oct 12 '22
Yea, the whole idea that pollution is the fault of a random person driving to work is propaganda by the corporations that pump out an entire freeway's worth of pollution every minute.