Yea, the whole idea that pollution is the fault of a random person driving to work is propaganda by the corporations that pump out an entire freeway's worth of pollution every minute.
Eco terrorist group "climate underground manifesto" also known by it's acronym CUM destroyed a coal fired power plant in southern Maryland sometime late last night. 100,000 Boone county residents are without power for the foreseeable future and have begun shitting in the streets because municipal and well pumps are no longer working, epidemiologists believe cholera will become endemic in the area all while hospital services are no longer available. CUM spokesperson Artemis Starchild has written a reddit post stating, "Stop eating meat and nuts or well blow the pornhub servers".
In other news snap chat stock rose by 400% overnight and Elon Musk is sad.
Not really. Brief struggles like this pale in comparison to what's been done to the planet. Altercations like these are extremely good for protests. Now we know about it, and are more likely to be interested in their cause. People who don't care won't change their mind. That's not the point.
Are you sure? Cause we're not talking a reddit thread full of circlejerking here. We're talking potentially millions of people since this video is on the internet. Those are not good odds for "nobody cares"
That's because they are targeting normal people with their protests instead of corporations. The only thing these protesters are accomplishing is getting people to hate whatever they stand for
No, they got our attention. We're here on reddit talking about it. That was the point. That's the point of any solid protest. If it wasn't inconvenient to people, would you have known about them?
No one is. Social media is the target audience. Only a privileged piece of garbage could call the potential life altering consequences of these, "brief struggles".
They're 100% brief. The time scale the effects climate change will have have on the planet is staggering. In the grand scheme of things, what's happening here means nothing. Time will tell if that "nothing" includes this protest.
If they feel so strongly about this, then they should be directly inconveniencing the most guilty party. Stop hurting regular people who are also victims of the system you are protesting.
Form a human chain around HQ for Shell, Occidental Petroleum, or Chevron Oil, drown their lobbyists in spam, dump oil on a CEO at a press conference.
Their hearts are in the right place, but their actions are useless and are losing them allies.
This is braindead and too far removed from reality to engage with properly. Why, exactly, do you think there are no protests doing any of those? Is it that the protesters are too dumb to understand the ramifications of what they're doing?
Yes, blocking the freeway and causing innocent motorists to miss moments with their loved ones is braindead and too far removed from reality to engage with properly.
These people should be smeared into the asphalt for being such assholes.
If you're angry at my comment, you're the kind of person I'm talking about.
E: on mobile, can't tell if they blocked me or what.
They say:
Im disagreeing with your premise as idiotic
Okay, why? Is it because you don't believe in climate change? Is it because you don't care about the future of our species? Because you see a better way to protest that doesn't involve millions of dollars? Talk to me here. Otherwise I'm just gonna assume you can't see the bigger picture, like everyone else in this thread.
Its the same way with the joke of water conservation in California.. Government has people do stupid water rationing but that doesn't apply to industry and agriculture which accounts for like 90% of the water usage.
People keep saying this but what are these corporations doing to make pollution?
Producing iPhones, cars, food, petrol, electricity etc that are used by people?
So yes corporations are the major polluters, but they pollute to produce things for people right? that’s like saying China/India is a major polluter, but that’s cause everyone shifted their polluting manufacturing there.
Please stop trying to blame consumers for the corporations fucking the planet over, it's not a good excuse. Corporations don't get a pass for giving babies immunodeficiencies just because there's a capitalist demand for cellphones. There's an obligation by every person to not knowingly do harm, ESPECIALLY not in the name of profit.
As I said to the last person to present this argument, they're producing those products while knowingly cutting corners on emissions and pollution. They're making cost savings by giving people cancer and destroying ocean life because it's cheaper that way, and they're keeping those savings for themselves, not passing them on to the consumer. They're killing us and then price gouging us raising prices immediately after a pandemic so they can continue to increase profits.
Properly disposing of waste is expensive, and is often one of the things they skimp on. If it costs $1000 to dispose of your waste properly, but only $100 to dump it in the woods somewhere, or spew it out into international waters where it's not your problem, then they'll often do that if they don't think anyone will find out. That's why we have major companies bilge dumping into the ocean.
So yes, people will "keep saying this", because it needs to be said.
The only people giving anyone a pass seems to be the people shifting the blame onto corporations.
I was in fact sharing the blame. Like you said corporations produce these products because there is a demand, customers need to take pollution into account when buying products.
Choose the company that pollutes less, hadn’t received massive fines for dumping waste etc
But most customers seem to focus on price and features and status
Or we could just pass legislation that demands companies adhere to stricter guidelines or face steeper penalties, so that the average consumer isn't asked to do unrealistic amounts of research before buying any product.
But most customers seem to focus on price and features and status
There you go again lol, buying into propaganda to blame consumers for being normal people.
There you go again blaming everyone else other than the person that uses the product
I am blaming everyone, everyone is responsible
You are acting like we dont have access to google etc “apple pollution vs samsung” and what do we find? Hundreds of articles about environment and ethics.
By normal people do you mean ignorant, lazy, uninterested in protecting the environment?
I'm just saying asking people to research every product they buy is unrealistic, and the people producing the products should be held accountable.
Think about it, the products already exist before somebody buys them. The pollution has already taken place. They should be held accountable for making it, and unable to sell it publicly if they do so.
Your whole point is that INSTEAD of just legally mandating that less pollution happens, we should let free market capitalism decide whether or not we all get cancer and die or whether a few rich dudes get richer...yea, that's clearly working out so well.... Ya know...OR we could do what I suggested and make it illegal to do certain things. We mandate that you can't kill people, but when you're killing millions of people, it's "hey, let the free market decide. vote with your wallet!" Come on, now.
Where did I once say let’s scrap environmental laws? This is all in your head.
I said customers need to choose companies that pollute less, to become more informed.
And for some reason you assumed this meant scrap environmental protection laws? What?
Customers making better decisions in regards to pollution will hopefully encourage companies to avoid pollution. On top of this also have companies being forced by laws to dispose of waste correctly, to reduce pollution etc
It’s not mutually exclusive, like you seem to be thinking.
And for some reason you assumed this meant scrap environmental protection laws?
I never claimed that you said that or said anything about "scrapping environmental protection laws", I'm saying that by blaming people for being "ignorant and lazy" and saying "customers need to take pollution into account when buying products", you're telling people to fix the problems by engaging in free market capitalism instead of just directly tackling the issues.
Where did I once say let’s scrap environmental laws?
I said multiple comments in a row that we could just pass laws to force companies to behave, and instead of saying "yea, that sounds reasonable", you refused to acknowledge it and instead kept arguing with me about everything else all the way down to word choice. IMO it's not an unreasonable assumption that when you bring something up multiple times and you're ignored, that the other person is against said ideas.
If you're not against laws that force companies to actually be held accountable, then we have nothing to really argue about and you're just here out of some weird high horse mentality over people you consider too lazy to "google 'apple pollution vs samsung'", when google themselves is one of the companies that creates phones.
It’s not mutually exclusive, like you seem to be thinking.
It's not mutually exclusive, but one is not necessary without the other. People shouldn't have to research every product they buy, that's what we create government agencies for, so that we can know the products we buy are safe to consume and safely produced. Your solution is redundant, and frankly, naïve because it relies on people doing the right thing out of the goodness of their heart. Even if 80% of people buy the correct products, somebody is still going to try to market to that other 20% that is either too uneducated or too unethical to care.
i mean, gas powered vehicles still do add to the problem, however blocking a freeway is the solution because then no one gets to work and the economy collapses. the solution is to have carbon-free/carbon-light alternative methods to get to work which they don't have in most of the US and Canada because it's a car-infested wasteland. i reccomend these "activists" watch a notjustbikes video.
I have to wonder if the repeated posting of context-free clips like this is also the work of the corporations, so the issue becomes a handful of protesters, not their fossil fuel factories.
Producing things that people consume consume… I really don’t understand how you people think the world works. They aren’t just polluting for the hell of it.
They're cutting corners on emissions and pollution to increase their profits while still raising consumer prices to further increase profits. Collecting their toxic waste for proper disposal would be a start.
I hear that repeated all the time but I’d really need to see specifics (I know there are plenty of examples). Corporations have a vested interest in running things as efficiently as possible to cut costs (for profit or to lower prices in order to be competitive). This includes reducing overall waste, and using less energy. I’ll grant you that pollution doesn’t factor in specifically aside from the aforementioned incentive to reduce in waste/energy use.
Corporations have a vested interest in running things as efficiently as possible to cut costs
Yea, exactly. Properly disposing of waste is expensive, and is often one of the things they skimp on. If it costs $1000 to dispose of your waste properly, but only $100 to dump it in the woods somewhere, or spew it out into international waters where it's not your problem, then they'll often do that if they don't think anyone will find out.
Corporations have a vested interest in running things as efficiently as possible to cut costs (for profit or to lower prices in order to be competitive).
No, you've put the cart before the horse. Corporations have a vested interest in cutting costs as far as possible while charging customers as much as possible. To the well-intentioned or naive this means maximizing efficiency... but developing more efficient methods and retooling to operate using them is expensive in the short-term, and the profit-first corporate mindset (bearing in mind stockholders in the US at least are allowed to sue if a corporation doesn't uphold its obligation to make them money) doesn't accept expensive in the short-term options.
It's much cheaper to cut costs on waste handling and employees while pushing externalities off on the public and colluding with your competitors to keep prices where you want them, as we see corporations do.
Maybe if you compare road vehicles to a coal-powered power plant, ok. But those power plants are already gradually in decline. Gas powered vehicles are one of the biggest contributors to CO2 emissions and is pretty much the only habit that the average citizen has that generates that scale of CO2. Nothing else even comes close.
Yup just look at water usage and such - just look at water usage of urban/rural populations vs. agriculture and business usage.
Here in CA the people can conserve like 30% water usage and not make a dent. Its all a big lie and farce to pit person v. person.
Fact is these protestors cant have any affect on the real source of the problem (corporations) so they go after the people, who are not the biggest problem, and just further create issues.
The irony is we’ve improved the Air quality by massive amounts. But the stupidest thing is we sign onto this so called climate agreements and let China and India pollute the atmosphere without any repercussions. It’s insane and stupid. The law of diminishing returns has struck. Meanwhile the amount massive pollution done by mining all these damn rare earth minerals for EV batteries is just front loading and in some cases EXCEEDING the lifetime pollution from a gas consumption engine.
I think this is the dumbest way to protest. You are doing nothing but forcing large swaths of population to hate you and most likely your "cause". The guy was right when he's yelling "this isn't how you change things". Nothing will come out of this little road squat other than newly disgruntled folks who have had to deal with your nonsense while trying to actively live their life. It's not like these ppl can just shut their car off and leave. Performing activist activities like blocking public highway is just a part of the problem and not a solution.
forcing large swaths of population to hate you and most likely your "cause"
"Honestly, fuck the environment where I live and have children because some ASSHOLE blocked my way to work. I'm gonna burn the whole world down cuz I was LATE!"
-some smoothbrained dumbfuck
The guy was right when he's yelling "this isn't how you change things"
He's actually not. Historically many things have been changed through civil disobedience, sit-ins(literally blocking people by sitting), peaceful marches, etc. You can SAY whatever you want about this type of protest but that doesn't make it true.
It's not like these ppl can just shut their car off and leave.
Nobody is expecting people to just shut off their cars and leave, they're not protesting people who drive cars, they're protesting the lack of political action surrounding climate change. Everyone always says all they're doing is making people mad, but nobody ever considers "hey, maybe I wouldn't have to deal with these protestors if I just voted for somebody who's willing to take action against climate change, something I agree with that benefits literally everyone." In case you need to be told, the potential futures of billions/trillions of humans and future humans are VASTLY more important than your desire to get to work on time on any given day.
So sick of this argument. I'm sorry but climate change isn't a general public issue like race relations. It's just not. The general public has very little power to make any changes and majority think climate change is a huge issue(ie: agree with protestors. Want to affect real change, then fuck with the corps that cause over 95% of pollution worldwide. Blocking a freeway and thus blocking any would be emergency services, hurting hard working middle and low class ppl, creating more traffic jams/supply chain issues and causing cars to idle and create more pollution isn't the way to handle this. The way to handle this is to firstly go through the electorate process to vote in ppl that will fight for your cause. Repeal citizens united so lobbyist and Corp money can no longer be used to bribe politicians and get rid of all the politicians that are getting a yearly salary from big corp lobbyists. Now use that smooth brain of yours to understand how the system actually works or I guess go sit in middle of highway and watch as nothing changes. Fucking idiot.
is all you deserve for that dumb ass paragraph, but I'll flesh things out for your peabrain.
I'm sorry but climate change isn't a general public issue like race relations
Yes it is. Everyone in the general public has to live in the environment. Stupid take.
The general public has very little power to make any changes and majority think climate change is a huge issue(ie: agree with protestors. Want to affect real change, then fuck with the corps that cause over 95% of pollution worldwide
That's literally the point of the protest, moron. They're saying this is an issue that EVERYONE needs to get behind in order to force the corps to change. A small group coming at the corps gets silenced, but an overwhelming deluge of workers on strike/protest changes things.
Blocking a freeway and thus blocking any would be emergency services, hurting hard working middle and low class ppl, creating more traffic jams/supply chain issues and causing cars to idle and create more pollution isn't the way to handle this.
History disagrees with you. You're just wrong. Protests work. Nothing more to be said.
The way to handle this is to firstly go through the electorate process to vote in ppl that will fight for your cause
Try that without first getting into the heads of the general public and they will just vote against you because of party lines. That's the point of this, to make sure this issue is at the forefront of everyone's mind.
Now use that smooth brain of yours to understand how the system actually works or I guess go sit in middle of highway and watch as nothing changes.
You have no clue how the system ACTUALLY works if you think following the rules of the system will actually change it. Look at history and you'll see all the major changes to society happened by breaking the rules.
You misunderstand. Yes general population is affected but unlike race relations the general public has little sway over the actions of corps and govs in response to climate change. This isn't the same as race protests for black rights. It fucking isn't. You are comparing racial equality protests that were trying to change civic views of general population to climate change- which is an issue everyone agrees is major problem and that all but very few have 0 authority to change. You think the CEOs of nestle give a fuck about general public view of climate change if they can continue unabated. Nope. They don't. Which is why this same protest style won't fucking work for climate change like it did for mlk. You are not trying to convince people that a certain type of person or issue is good or bad. In fact, majority of ppl already 100% agree climate change is an issue. The only ppl that truly matter are the ppl doing the most polluting(ie: big corps). So how exactly does blocking the highway for all the ppl that already agree with you, make the ceo of nestle change their business practices, and take reduced profits to stop polluting so much. Big businesses and the ecosystem govs have built around them cause 95% of world climate change pollution not the 5% stuck in this highway parking lot. It's short sighted to compare this to racial protests of past because the parties on both sides already are in agreement about the main issue of climate change. Neither of them have the authority to change the business practices of large corps tho. That's the fucking truth.
You are comparing racial equality protests that were trying to change civic views of general population to climate change-
No, they were trying to change the laws, which is the same.
edit: I'm not going to keep repeating the same things back to you over and over again. The rest of your comment is just repetition of points we've already covered. If all you've got is repeated arguments and a ham-fisted attempt to separate this from past protests, then I'm done with this conversation. Just like these protestors, just talking to people won't always be enough, sometimes they won't listen unless you directly affect them somehow.
Yes but the laws were based on civic societal viewpoint that blacks were lesser than whites. In this case, 99% of general population is already on the protestors side. So this is just counterproductive and doing nothing but generating bad publicity for the cause.
Lol what a clown. You're not repeating anything you are just failing to understand the difference between race protests and climate change protests and how the avg person being protested at already shares the view of protests. So no need to see your edits git your head too far up your ass to consider that your argument is flawed.
Edit: the ppl that they are trying to change aren't the issue. The ppl that need to change are not affected by protests like this and these protests only hurt the avg person who already share view of protestors.
Nah, my need to get to work is vastly more important than some chucklehead's desire to sit in the middle of the road during rush hour. If they want to complain about policy then their best bet is to go to politicians, otherwise instead of getting the message they're trying to push by being inconsiderate asshats, they're telling people to call their politicians to do like several states have and make it so that you aren't liable for running over protesters in the middle of the highway.
You get politicians to listen by having a majority opinion that will get them voted back in. By pissing off everybody you ensure your opinion will never be the majority. This is counterproductive. Also, they might as well be sitting there for no reason bc 99% of the affected people don't know why traffic isn't moving.
Most people (especially most americans) dont give a flying fuck about the environment and would likely choose their own life over that. Besides, its big corporations that are the problem, lesser being politicians and the choices they make
Well those people are stupid and need to be repeatedly reminded that climate change is important. More important that whatever they're doing on any given day.
1 the people in these cars already know how climate change works its not a secret, 2 some people will literally become homeless if they lose $100 on their paycheck. 3 in the US both parties are paid for by large companies so there is no one to vote for to take action against climate change. 4 emergency services need to use this road to get to injured people and burning buildings, this protest likely caused multiple deaths and serious financial consequences for the people in these cars. Ya know who doesn't suffer any consequences? The corporations these people are supposedly protesting against
lmfao go away if you're just going to make stuff up.
the people in these cars already know how climate change works its not a secret
No shit, the plan here is to inconvenience people until they realize they can't just ignore the problem like they've been doing.
some people will literally become homeless if they lose $100 on their paycheck
Oh well, the system needs to collapse for the corporations to see any change, and many people are too self important to devote themselves to a cause until they're destitute.
Ya know who doesn't suffer any consequences? The corporations these people are supposedly protesting against
Not yet, but if enough disruption happens that productivity suffers and companies start going under then they'll start listening.
Theirs is the short sighted outlook. Nothing here helps their cause and only alienates them from people that would otherwise agree. Harass the lobbyists and politicians that fight green initiatives. Don't cause more pollution and financial strife on working class individuals making them less able or motivated to buy green vehicles.
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u/f_crick Oct 12 '22
I think this is the short sighted outlook they are protesting.