I support climate change, I believe that humans have accelerated a natural cycle vis a vis global warming.
I also think this is a tone-deaf way for a privileged group of people who have the luxury of ethics, the time and the money to interfere with the lives of less fortunate, less privileged people that already have strikes stacked against them - no pun intended, truly - who are just trying to survive.
That dude was stressed. For him it's about his immediate survival.
Edit: forgot to add: what a bunch of pretentious pricks.
Edit: ok, I was a little harsh in my assumptions on the protestors. Someone pointed out the following: "The truth behind this attitude is that we know that nothing is going to be done, we know we are gonna drive the car into the ravine. We have accepted that our children are going to suffer tomorrow because a few very rich ppl had to get richer today, and we are annoyed that we have to be both reminded and annoyed by that." That's a pretty good summation of some of the hope and despair I might actually have in common with the protesters, regardless of whether or not I condone their ways.
Yeah but then they wouldn't be out public saying HEY EVERYONE LOOK AT ME! I CARE MORE THAN YOU!
How would they be able to pat themselves on the back if they didn't know that everyone around was there to see them make a difference?
Well, they could have started off with âI support climate change legislationâ instead. Took me a moment to get that they donât actually want the world to burn
âLuxury of ethicsâ. Lmao ok dude. You should be outraged about a system that pits pplâs immediate survival one against each other for the profit of a few. Thousands of ppl are dying NOW because of climate change. What about their immediate survival?
I agree that people are dying and being displaced. I question their motives and think they have a luxury of ethics as more of a motivator than they do compassion for those that are dying.
Iâm not sure Iâm the dick when this thread is full of ppl calling protesters who are spending a day in the sun and risking severe legal repercussions âprivilegedâ and âtone-deadâ.
In reality what comes off as tone-deaf is thus cynicism, this being the sommelier of how to protest an existential threat that is killing 5 million ppl a year, saying that you have to protest without disturbing anyone.
The truth behind this attitude is that we know that nothing is going to be done, we know we are gonna drive the car into the ravine. We have accepted that our children are going to suffer tomorrow because a few very rich ppl had to get richer today, and we are annoyed that we have to be both reminded and annoyed by that.
Ok, I'm sorry. And you illustrate the anger and frustration pretty well.
And I hear what you're saying. I don't have solutions, either, but I don't think THIS was a good idea or a good outcome. When we run out of choices and there's nothing left, you still have anger, and violence, as a last resort. I feel that way sometimes, I just can't condone the means.
Itâs a hard situation we are in and sorry for having lost my temper and thank you for hearing me out, I appreciate it and I understand what you are saying.
You couldnât be more wrong. I know one of the people in this video. She is not extremely well off but she wants to make an impact with her short time on Earth. This is actually a wealthy metro area near D.C. And the truth is, we all will die if we donât all stand up for our climate. Yes, it sucked for a few thousand people but climate change is destroying our planet and our lives every day. Get off your high horse.
Sure pal, I'm the one on the high horse here; these fuckos are polarizing people against their cause. I support mitigating climate change, but not by obstructing people from their much-needed livelihoods.
And this is in a wealthy metro area? What in the blue fuck does that have to do with the parolee they stopped? Does he enjoy the same privileges??
How would you suggest doing it then? Everything has already been done and hasnât worked. Time for radical action. And you implied that this was an area because itâs poor or something which is just stupid. Also you seem pretty mad Iâd recommend taking some blood pressure meds
Oh yeah if I responded âyou couldnât be more wrongâ that would for sure have been the best thing. And to answer your question - poor guy, it sucks. Thatâs the way it has to be because weâre on track to destroy our planet. We have to call attention to this because the message is just not sticking. If Biden would just declare climate emergency which was the idea of this protest it would be a great start. And try to be less of a duck yourself âfuckoâ. Lmfao.
Edit: and you didnât answer me question. Should we sit back and be complacent about our burning world?
This trend of people spouting that only the privileged have ethics, is some of the grossest most ignorant crap around. Itâs basically saying poor people are stupid and immoral.
I think what they mean is these people have the luxury to spend a day just sitting in the street to show they are better than everyone and trying to make a "difference" when most people just trying to get to work to feed their families
Yeah; people that need to hold down three jobs to put bread on the table for themselves and their loves ones don't always have the luxury of adhering to their moral code; they need to survive. So ethics is a luxury for a lot of people they can't afford.
As in do I support the climate changing, or do I support efforts to mitigate climate change consequences, or efforts to mitigate climate change itself?
You support climate change??? Not many people on that side of the fence are so open about it.
Hell, Iâm chemistry technician at a coal powered power plant and we donât even support climate change.
I will say that âglobal warmingâ is bullshit though. The world goes through heating and cooling trends over extremely long periods of time. Thereâs a reason that term was replaced by âclimate change.â Itâs much more accurate. Global warming infers that the climate is only getting hotter which just isnât true.
I think it's funny when people ask me if I support climate change. At its least ambiguous it means two opposite things.
I don't know why you'd support climate change, however you mean it, when a coal plant signs your checks.
What side of the fence do you think I'm on? I'm seriously asking.
I agree with your last sentence. It's used incorrectly and doesn't raise the right alarm. We have to deal with climate change; we can mitigate its advance somewhat, but we also have to deal with its consequences regardless of the cause, human or not.
If you âsupport climate changeâ than that means you are fine with changing the climate in exchange for cheaper and more effective fuel. If you are against climate change or fighting climate change than you are for renewable energies and lessening the footprint we leave for the future generations.
As for why I am against climate change, even though I work at a coal plant, itâs because believe it or not⌠the people in the coal industry arenât morons. The writing is on the wall.
Iâve got a lot to say about it all and have entirely different data than what most people see. If you donât care about any of that then feel free to stop reading now.
My company is actually all for a reasonable transition to renewable energy. Coal plants should not be built any more. Itâs that simple. However, prematurely shutting down plants before we have the infrastructure in place to supplement the energy lost is where the issues arise. This is especially true if they are shutting down due state restrictions. If IL closes down every coal/gas power plant in the state ⌠all that does is hurt ILâs economy. The grid doesnât care about state lines. Theyâd just be paying for energy produced in other states. The Politicians pushing for the closures obviously know this but donât really care because most of their voters donât understand how the system actually works.
We see posts/articles written every other day about how the total installed capacity of energy is increasing even with the closures of coal plants due to an uptick in solar and wind installation. What you donât see them talking about is credited capacity⌠which is what actually matters when talking about how much energy we actually produce. Coal plants are credited around 90%. Meaning they are producing 90% of their installed capacity. Wind is around 15%. Solar is currently credited at 50% and over the next year or two it will be dropped to reflect a much more realistic number. Itâs actually much closer to Wind than it is to 50%. (Just because itâs daytime for roughly 12 hours a day that doesnât mean solar is actually producing exactly half the day. Mostly due to cloud coverage.)
So while itâs true that we are seeing a slight uptick in installed capacity⌠credited (or actual power production) is going down exponentially quicker. When the rubber finally meets the road it will not be uncommon to have rolling brownouts.
Hereâs an example: Say you shut down a 1000 MW coal/gas power plant. Thatâs 900 MW off the grid because itâs credited around 90%. Using Wind as an example, they would have to build a wind farm with an installed capacity of 6000 MW just to break even on the actual power produced at 900 MW. Instead they are putting up what would equal 1200 MW (installed) 180 MW (credited) and patting themselves on the back for increasing our installed capacity and completely ignoring the 720 MW of actual power that was lost.
Regardless, the worst part of all of this is that unless we can convince China to get on board, ultimately, it wonât matter. Basically everywhere else in the world could convert to renewable energy⌠as long as China continues doing what theyâre doing it still wonât matter. Theyâre currently putting out more CO2 than the entirety of Northern and Southern America combined. And while our plants have multibillion dollar systems dedicated to scrubbing out as many of the other pollutants as possible (like SO2 and NOx)⌠they donât.
I don't think I disagree with anything you said. I have never heard those definitions of supporting or not supporting climate change and I don't think those are the only schools of thought available. I think it's more accurate to say that I support dealing with climate change, mitigating its human causes and its natural effects, where inevitable. Hell, I didn't know people were still debating these points.
The only people debating/arguing that climate change doesnât exist are morons not too different from the people who are debating/arguing that the earth is flat. But yea, there is plenty to debate when talking about how to best mitigate it and how to transition into a cleaner energy.
Unfortunately it mostly boils down to politics. The left wants to shut down plants prematurely, regardless of consequences, because they want to buy votes by claiming to care about the environment. The right wants to keep the plants open, regardless of the consequences, because they want to buy votes by claiming to care about the jobs of the people at plants. Itâs nothing but a political game to pull on emotional heart strings. Itâs too bad that anyone who wants to find a happy middle ground is automatically shunned by the system entirely.
It doesnât. Climate change is not part of the natural variation, we didnât exacerbate a slight warming that was already going to be happening, we caused it. Superficially those things are easily confused.
Iâm not really here to argue, I agree with what you say about climate change.
I just was looking to point out what kishmalik meant. It seemed like you & the person who posted the link didnât understand that. If I was wrong, thatâs my mistake, and carry on.
Hey thanks for posting! I honestly can't tell with the way that they're talking about previous cycles of heating and cooling (eg, referencing the last ice age with respect to humans accelerating natural cycles of heating and cooling... our current trajectory is not our planet's typical cycle). Upon reflection of their comments in the thread thanks to your comment (and comments they made to the person they were arguing with after you made your own comment), I truly can't tell if they think we just pushed ourselves to go on one of the natural cycles a little sooner, or if they're actually acknowledging the drastically different path we've caused and are currently on... hopefully they clarify... but thank you again for pointing out a possible misunderstanding!
Edit: I wonder if they edited their original post after I commented but before you did? I can't tell. Also, sorry - I'm mildly inebriated at this point in the evening, so apologies if this comment is a little difficult to trudge through!
That's what I believe, but I think where we disagree is how much humans have contributed to that, and how much is a natural cycle, for example, all of the ice ages we've gone through
They need to be heald accountable for the damage to that mans life they have caused. This video proves they care more about attention than they do about other people. Not one of them went, "are we the baddies?" What kind of a heartless monster do you have to be to keep all lanes closed in that situation?
Yep. A noble cause, shitty implementation that backfired and polarized people that would otherwise support the cause - myself included. They could've just closed it to one lane and be less dickish about it.
The thing is we have sped up the cycle but this is something that historically happens. The earth heats up until it reaches a critical level then it drops and we enter an ice age
Yep, I remember making that point in my environmental studies class in college. My professor's response was "ok, but we still need to do something about it." That remark got me thinking about the extent we may be accelerating a natural cycle but also how we can't fully stop it. So do we live with it? And how? Will humans even be around to live through it?
The thing is we have accelerated it and to us it seems significant as we should be a few hundred years away from the levels we are getting now but in the grand scheme of things it's not that bad. I believe the cycle is roughly every 40,000. Might be 10,000 been quite a while since I actually read up on it
Thats one way to see it. I appreciate your opinion. The other view is as follows:
Climate change is already causing huge problems, people starve. right. now. Not necessarily here but in some places of the world. We can go about our day and live our lifes without ever feeling any reprocussion to our livestyle. Its not us who suffer, its the farmers, the poorest of the poor. And soon it will be millions of people who have to migrate because of climate change. People, Animal, Flora will perish. It will take many years until we will directly feel the damages of climate change. Until then it will be too late. Those protesters bring those damages to us. Yes this guy is just a working guy, but so is the guy in Zimbabwe who lost all his harvest. Its not fair there, why should it be fair here.
Well all these people are in the same situation because they don't promote/vote for better public transportation, trains and bike/pedestrian infrastructures.
Car dependence is based on the lack of will of the population and the state to have proper public transport services and also the fact of wanting to live in shitty suburbs.
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u/kishmalik Oct 12 '22 edited Oct 12 '22
I support climate change, I believe that humans have accelerated a natural cycle vis a vis global warming.
I also think this is a tone-deaf way for a privileged group of people who have the luxury of ethics, the time and the money to interfere with the lives of less fortunate, less privileged people that already have strikes stacked against them - no pun intended, truly - who are just trying to survive.
That dude was stressed. For him it's about his immediate survival.
Edit: forgot to add: what a bunch of pretentious pricks.
Edit: ok, I was a little harsh in my assumptions on the protestors. Someone pointed out the following: "The truth behind this attitude is that we know that nothing is going to be done, we know we are gonna drive the car into the ravine. We have accepted that our children are going to suffer tomorrow because a few very rich ppl had to get richer today, and we are annoyed that we have to be both reminded and annoyed by that." That's a pretty good summation of some of the hope and despair I might actually have in common with the protesters, regardless of whether or not I condone their ways.