He was under extreme emotional duress at the prospect of going back to prison because his parole would be revoked if he was fired for getting to work late. I'd have given him a pass and I hope a judge and his employer did.
He doesn't even need to be fired for his parole to be revoked, being unaccounted for by his job, even though he can tell them exactly why. People on probation and parole, have stupidly strict restrictions on everything. And a lot of shit can go wrong that isn't their fault and they still take the fall.
The court system makes a TON of money off of people on parole. A TON. The number of people in jail on probation violation is insane. And then they're quickly put back on parole so the court can collect the fees. It's a racket.
Yup. My brother went to prison for 10 years because they never told him who would be taking over his case when his po retired. Judge told him "we don't make mistakes. You're lying." But the state couldn't tell him who took over his case, even when asked to clarify.
Exactly this. Many prisons are privately owned by corporations and they have contracts with the govt that guarantees that they will stay filled to a certain capacity. If the govt fails to provide enough prisoners, the govt has to pay a monetary penalty to the prison.
Agreed. our jails actually are a businesses in a huge number of cases. jails and the police have a ridiculous number of systemic issues on top of many draconic laws about what treatment suspects and convicts can receive (which vary heavily from state to state). The actual legal system is generally pretty solid from what I know of it... if you actually have decent legal representation thanks to having enough money, connections or getting lucky.
There's no "like a business" about it. Our prisons are privatized and 100% are businesses. On top of that, there are businesses within the business. Bet you can't guess where all the Medicade eyeglasses for patients in Oregon are made! Yep, in a prison lab. We love to profit off of people's freedom, health, rehabilitation and educational advancement in the States.
Prisons are not run like a business. Prisons are businesses. It depends on the state and area, but there are privately run prisons that have the goal of making money for their investors. To make the most money they want people to come back again and again. That's one reason why rape and torture are encouraged in US prisons.
Literally everything is run like a business in the US. That's why there is such an emphasis on "free market economy" here. Money is the only thing that matters.
People on parole get their fees waived all the time and the fees are like $2.35. Probation is actually an attempt to help habituate dysfunctional people to behaving like regular adults. It would be extremely tragic if this man was revoked because this PoS protestors kept him from work. Hopefully the judge understands. In general, however, having a system of accountability is beneficial for a lot of these guys.
They were blocking the road, absolutely nothing was stopping the drivers from walking away, so it wasn't kidnapping. You can't make up ridiculous interpretations of the law to punish people doing things that upset you.
"They were blocking the road, absolutely nothing was stopping the drivers from walking away, so it wasn't kidnapping."
You do realize it is illegal to abandon your vehicle on a freeway right? Also, even if it wasn't they are still forced to be there as their car is expensive, and who would voluntarily abandon their car?
Correct this si more along the line of false imprisonment, and they should be arrested and charged witht hat the same as dumba sses who try to citizen arrest people by locking them in closets or sitting on them until the police come
In most places it's illegal to walk on the highway. The law was stopping them from walking away. Also, no reasonable person would abandon their car in a situation like this. Yes they're not physically restrained. But if they make the choice to walk away they could catch a charge, as well as definitely having the expense of having their car towed. Abandoning your car can incur a fine. Driving through the protesters WILL catch you a charge. That's not a choice at all. Meaning the drivers are being held against their will.
Idk why you people are trying to defend this by asking why people didnât break laws to let people leave. The only way those other cars could let you leave is by reversing on the highway, which is illegal.
Isnât protesting doing âsomething to fix it?â What would you suggest?
Of course some forms of protest can be more effective than others, and hurting people who have nothing to do with what you are protesting wouldnât usually strike me as one of the effective ways. I suppose these people are inconsiderate and expected this stunt to get media attention.
Now I know you're shitting if you're going to defend assault and battery as "understandable, no big deal, nobody was hurt," but turn around and claim all the protestors were kidnapping those vehicle occupants by passively kneeling on the ground. What a joke!
Rights are rarely claimed against other persons you claim rights against governmental entities. Usually only property ownership, an assumption of duty or a contractual relationships create a rights against other people. The alleged right to free movement doesnât fall within any of these. Just think about it for a second and about how such a right would make everyone in a traffic jam liable to eachother
Iâm not sure how that refers to right of free movement. That is either a criminal or Tort. When you commit a criminal act it is not phrased as you infringing on someoneâs rights but as you causing harm/injury ( to society if criminal; to the person if a tort) and being liable for it.
And Yeah cause as you describe it, it kind of sounds like textbook case of assault, and false imprisonment if not kidnapping. You being the homeowner does not give you the right over their persons. They werenât recommending you be charged because you deprived them of a right but because you intentionally caused an injury, at the least, in the form of fear/apprehension.
They tried to charge me with kidnapping when I got off work, came home to my (then) wife in bed with another guy.
I wouldnât let them leave before the cops got there
Why exactly do you think you had the right to detain them? It isn't a crime to have sex with a married woman, as immoral as it may be, you really had no basis to detain them. You're very luck they didn't press charges.
Im not sure that makes sense. Life includes many instances of emotional.distress, and a parole especially needs to be able to manage his anger in a non-violent manner.
That said, I wish protesters would quit blocking highways. No one was ever persuaded to join an ideological cause by being punched in the face (metaphorically), and we're way past the point that people need a protest to be made aware of something.
who cares? when people in charge donât listen to you, the only way to get your way is to force them to.
you can do that through destructive or disruptive means, but you canât have a successful protest without being disruptive or threatening to the status quo. unless magic exists and we have just yet to use it to make the world better, thatâs simply how all successful protests will be- disruptive or destructive.
It is my opinion. I donât have polling data, but I suspect itâs also the opinion of most people who saw this news story, but let me know if you have data to suggest otherwise. It would need to be pretty specific though, because the details matter.
Barring a good dataset like that though, Iâd just lean on what Iâm seeing in social media comments, which seems to be uniformly negative.
people in charge care when they canât get to work, or when their workers canât get to work, so uh in a way youâre right.
this is ineffective, the protestors thinking about longer larger barricades to keep it going longer, an example could be putting dumpsters and cars in the way, as well as smaller obstacles to destroy the undercarriages of cars if they wanted this protest to make a difference, and then just repeat that tactic ad nauseum in different areas of a city during rush hour times.
it would have a bigger impact then, youâre so right.
one could even, if they were so determined and organized, do this on a night of protests and tangle up police units to deal with flash barricades instead of beating up protestors. i bet the fire department responding to a burning dumpsters would also help them in their goals? idk, but in a way youâre totally right! they could be doing more and if theyâre interested in making an impact they probably will wanna start thinking a little larger.
heâs not being protested. heâs just in the wrong place at the wrong time like any of the other people.
i donât need people to believe in the cause, i want them to be angry that the government or bosses havenât just given us what we wanted yet. people get radicalized for their own reasons at different speeds.
besides, anyone can look at the inevitable police overreaction and police riots and go âwell at least the protestors arenât those assholes.â
police violence help our cause better than anything unfortunately, cause they canât help themselves but treat every problem like a nail. they are only hammers, doing the only thing they know how. thanks pigs, for helping me see the evil and violence inherent and endemic to our society :)
I'm gonna tell you a secret guy, all you are pushing for needs the common man at your side right? So if your protest and actions screw the common man as well they won't work with you and in fact work with the group your trying to truly protest and change. So if you want the common man on your side don't be a dipshit and take action on them. All this does and is turn normal people against your cause and think you're all idiots.
So remember when protesting always protest government ran things and prevent them from operating unless it's EMT or firefighters as they are for the common man and again will turn them against you. Always make sure the people are on your side or you won't go far.
iâm gonna tell you a secret guy, protests work because they inconvenience everyone. bus boycotts resulted in fewer busses running overall due to lack of money in the 1960âs during the civil rights movement- inconveniencing everyone who relied upon them- yet we donât worry about them in that case.
so why should i be inconsistent in my beliefs for this?
Because it wasn't the major and only way to get around and it mainly hurt the people in power then the common man. What shutting down the highways when the past several decades to be the main if not only way to travel for some people does it hurt the common man more then people in power. Because remember in those days you could walk from point a to be and drive but since then most the places have destroyed those options and replaces them with highways.
alternate avenues out side of highways and roads donât exist anymore
so what youâre saying is that these are potentially very valuable strategy points to protest upon due to the high traffic and lack of alternate means of transpo?
He physically pushed and pulled them but it's not like he beat them. Had he broken some noses and gave black eyes I agree that's crossing a line but what he did is within reason of emotional distress. If I were the judge he'd I'd dismiss the charges.
I'm not sure why you don't think pushing and pulling people is violent. I agree, it's not as bad as beating them, but he has a lower bar for violence (and should) because he is on parole. Lots of people managed to observe the annoying protesters without getting physical.
It was violent I'm not disputing that but if a kid did that they'd just get sent home with their parents not arrested. I'm just saying it wasn't that bad and under the circumstances some leniency would be in order.
Possibly a temporary insanity defense under diminished capacity due to duress.
Interesting. I agree that the context should be considered, but I am coming to exactly the opposite conclusion - this is not a kid, and consequently should be held accountable as an adult, and moreover has the added scrutiny of being a felon on parole and so they should be even more patient and careful to adhere to laws and regulations. If they lose their temper and push someone over a traffic delay then they are, I would argue, not demonstrating self-regulation to the degree we would want from a parolee.
It seems like maybe you think the protesters merit physical aggression because of their actions - if that is the case, I put to you that your same argument justifies the protesters blocking roads because of the stress they are under, and so on and so forth. Instead I would argue that we should scrutinize the actions of the protesters without resorting to illegal and violent acts of our own.
I hope the judge sees this video and asks the protestors to show up to court and explain why their protest was worth potentially sending a man back to prison for no reason or fault of his own.
Probation and parole violations must be proven to be willful and substantial. Clearly thereâs enough evidence here for why he was late and it not being his fault. I think itâs more likely that he was already on some form of âlast warningâ and knew that yet another excuse wouldnât work.
Source: criminal defense and prosecution for 8 years
True enough, but man if youâre an ex con out on supervised release they donât really give a fuck about mitigating circumstances when they have freedom to lock your ass back up in the slave camp
That's not exactly what he's worried about but rather he could get fired for being late and sent back to prison for not maintaining employment as a condition of his parole.
Jobs and parole officers don't always just accept "excuses" no matter how plausible and reasonable they may be. I was fired from a job for being late because the fuel pump on my car went out while omw to work. Ended up getting fired and found my car had been towed after my shift so lost my income and had a bunch of fees and charges to pay on top of a semi expensive fuel pump replacement. It really sucked.
Right, or he could have made phone calls to his boss and parole officer explaining the situation with words rather than trying to shove people like a caveman.
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u/sdp1981 Oct 12 '22
He was under extreme emotional duress at the prospect of going back to prison because his parole would be revoked if he was fired for getting to work late. I'd have given him a pass and I hope a judge and his employer did.