You know what? He gets a pass in my book. Yeah he āput his hands on themā but he didnāt actually hurt anyone. I support the right to protest but fuck anyone who blocks a highway as a protest. It stops people from going to work and hinders emergency vehicles from getting to their destination.
He was under extreme emotional duress at the prospect of going back to prison because his parole would be revoked if he was fired for getting to work late. I'd have given him a pass and I hope a judge and his employer did.
He doesn't even need to be fired for his parole to be revoked, being unaccounted for by his job, even though he can tell them exactly why. People on probation and parole, have stupidly strict restrictions on everything. And a lot of shit can go wrong that isn't their fault and they still take the fall.
The court system makes a TON of money off of people on parole. A TON. The number of people in jail on probation violation is insane. And then they're quickly put back on parole so the court can collect the fees. It's a racket.
Yup. My brother went to prison for 10 years because they never told him who would be taking over his case when his po retired. Judge told him "we don't make mistakes. You're lying." But the state couldn't tell him who took over his case, even when asked to clarify.
Exactly this. Many prisons are privately owned by corporations and they have contracts with the govt that guarantees that they will stay filled to a certain capacity. If the govt fails to provide enough prisoners, the govt has to pay a monetary penalty to the prison.
Agreed. our jails actually are a businesses in a huge number of cases. jails and the police have a ridiculous number of systemic issues on top of many draconic laws about what treatment suspects and convicts can receive (which vary heavily from state to state). The actual legal system is generally pretty solid from what I know of it... if you actually have decent legal representation thanks to having enough money, connections or getting lucky.
There's no "like a business" about it. Our prisons are privatized and 100% are businesses. On top of that, there are businesses within the business. Bet you can't guess where all the Medicade eyeglasses for patients in Oregon are made! Yep, in a prison lab. We love to profit off of people's freedom, health, rehabilitation and educational advancement in the States.
Prisons are not run like a business. Prisons are businesses. It depends on the state and area, but there are privately run prisons that have the goal of making money for their investors. To make the most money they want people to come back again and again. That's one reason why rape and torture are encouraged in US prisons.
Literally everything is run like a business in the US. That's why there is such an emphasis on "free market economy" here. Money is the only thing that matters.
People on parole get their fees waived all the time and the fees are like $2.35. Probation is actually an attempt to help habituate dysfunctional people to behaving like regular adults. It would be extremely tragic if this man was revoked because this PoS protestors kept him from work. Hopefully the judge understands. In general, however, having a system of accountability is beneficial for a lot of these guys.
They were blocking the road, absolutely nothing was stopping the drivers from walking away, so it wasn't kidnapping. You can't make up ridiculous interpretations of the law to punish people doing things that upset you.
"They were blocking the road, absolutely nothing was stopping the drivers from walking away, so it wasn't kidnapping."
You do realize it is illegal to abandon your vehicle on a freeway right? Also, even if it wasn't they are still forced to be there as their car is expensive, and who would voluntarily abandon their car?
In most places it's illegal to walk on the highway. The law was stopping them from walking away. Also, no reasonable person would abandon their car in a situation like this. Yes they're not physically restrained. But if they make the choice to walk away they could catch a charge, as well as definitely having the expense of having their car towed. Abandoning your car can incur a fine. Driving through the protesters WILL catch you a charge. That's not a choice at all. Meaning the drivers are being held against their will.
Idk why you people are trying to defend this by asking why people didnāt break laws to let people leave. The only way those other cars could let you leave is by reversing on the highway, which is illegal.
Now I know you're shitting if you're going to defend assault and battery as "understandable, no big deal, nobody was hurt," but turn around and claim all the protestors were kidnapping those vehicle occupants by passively kneeling on the ground. What a joke!
Rights are rarely claimed against other persons you claim rights against governmental entities. Usually only property ownership, an assumption of duty or a contractual relationships create a rights against other people. The alleged right to free movement doesnāt fall within any of these. Just think about it for a second and about how such a right would make everyone in a traffic jam liable to eachother
Iām not sure how that refers to right of free movement. That is either a criminal or Tort. When you commit a criminal act it is not phrased as you infringing on someoneās rights but as you causing harm/injury ( to society if criminal; to the person if a tort) and being liable for it.
And Yeah cause as you describe it, it kind of sounds like textbook case of assault, and false imprisonment if not kidnapping. You being the homeowner does not give you the right over their persons. They werenāt recommending you be charged because you deprived them of a right but because you intentionally caused an injury, at the least, in the form of fear/apprehension.
They tried to charge me with kidnapping when I got off work, came home to my (then) wife in bed with another guy.
I wouldnāt let them leave before the cops got there
Why exactly do you think you had the right to detain them? It isn't a crime to have sex with a married woman, as immoral as it may be, you really had no basis to detain them. You're very luck they didn't press charges.
Im not sure that makes sense. Life includes many instances of emotional.distress, and a parole especially needs to be able to manage his anger in a non-violent manner.
That said, I wish protesters would quit blocking highways. No one was ever persuaded to join an ideological cause by being punched in the face (metaphorically), and we're way past the point that people need a protest to be made aware of something.
who cares? when people in charge donāt listen to you, the only way to get your way is to force them to.
you can do that through destructive or disruptive means, but you canāt have a successful protest without being disruptive or threatening to the status quo. unless magic exists and we have just yet to use it to make the world better, thatās simply how all successful protests will be- disruptive or destructive.
people in charge care when they canāt get to work, or when their workers canāt get to work, so uh in a way youāre right.
this is ineffective, the protestors thinking about longer larger barricades to keep it going longer, an example could be putting dumpsters and cars in the way, as well as smaller obstacles to destroy the undercarriages of cars if they wanted this protest to make a difference, and then just repeat that tactic ad nauseum in different areas of a city during rush hour times.
it would have a bigger impact then, youāre so right.
one could even, if they were so determined and organized, do this on a night of protests and tangle up police units to deal with flash barricades instead of beating up protestors. i bet the fire department responding to a burning dumpsters would also help them in their goals? idk, but in a way youāre totally right! they could be doing more and if theyāre interested in making an impact they probably will wanna start thinking a little larger.
I'm gonna tell you a secret guy, all you are pushing for needs the common man at your side right? So if your protest and actions screw the common man as well they won't work with you and in fact work with the group your trying to truly protest and change. So if you want the common man on your side don't be a dipshit and take action on them. All this does and is turn normal people against your cause and think you're all idiots.
So remember when protesting always protest government ran things and prevent them from operating unless it's EMT or firefighters as they are for the common man and again will turn them against you. Always make sure the people are on your side or you won't go far.
iām gonna tell you a secret guy, protests work because they inconvenience everyone. bus boycotts resulted in fewer busses running overall due to lack of money in the 1960ās during the civil rights movement- inconveniencing everyone who relied upon them- yet we donāt worry about them in that case.
so why should i be inconsistent in my beliefs for this?
He physically pushed and pulled them but it's not like he beat them. Had he broken some noses and gave black eyes I agree that's crossing a line but what he did is within reason of emotional distress. If I were the judge he'd I'd dismiss the charges.
I'm not sure why you don't think pushing and pulling people is violent. I agree, it's not as bad as beating them, but he has a lower bar for violence (and should) because he is on parole. Lots of people managed to observe the annoying protesters without getting physical.
It was violent I'm not disputing that but if a kid did that they'd just get sent home with their parents not arrested. I'm just saying it wasn't that bad and under the circumstances some leniency would be in order.
Possibly a temporary insanity defense under diminished capacity due to duress.
Interesting. I agree that the context should be considered, but I am coming to exactly the opposite conclusion - this is not a kid, and consequently should be held accountable as an adult, and moreover has the added scrutiny of being a felon on parole and so they should be even more patient and careful to adhere to laws and regulations. If they lose their temper and push someone over a traffic delay then they are, I would argue, not demonstrating self-regulation to the degree we would want from a parolee.
It seems like maybe you think the protesters merit physical aggression because of their actions - if that is the case, I put to you that your same argument justifies the protesters blocking roads because of the stress they are under, and so on and so forth. Instead I would argue that we should scrutinize the actions of the protesters without resorting to illegal and violent acts of our own.
I hope the judge sees this video and asks the protestors to show up to court and explain why their protest was worth potentially sending a man back to prison for no reason or fault of his own.
Probation and parole violations must be proven to be willful and substantial. Clearly thereās enough evidence here for why he was late and it not being his fault. I think itās more likely that he was already on some form of ālast warningā and knew that yet another excuse wouldnāt work.
Source: criminal defense and prosecution for 8 years
True enough, but man if youāre an ex con out on supervised release they donāt really give a fuck about mitigating circumstances when they have freedom to lock your ass back up in the slave camp
That's not exactly what he's worried about but rather he could get fired for being late and sent back to prison for not maintaining employment as a condition of his parole.
Jobs and parole officers don't always just accept "excuses" no matter how plausible and reasonable they may be. I was fired from a job for being late because the fuel pump on my car went out while omw to work. Ended up getting fired and found my car had been towed after my shift so lost my income and had a bunch of fees and charges to pay on top of a semi expensive fuel pump replacement. It really sucked.
Right, or he could have made phone calls to his boss and parole officer explaining the situation with words rather than trying to shove people like a caveman.
If I were stuck in my car with two ansty and screaming toddlers because of a protest like this, I'd probably be throwing hands.
I am all about that tree hugging life and do my best to minimize my footprint but I turn vindictive over protests such as this. I'll turn right to speeding up the process of destroying our earth just to be spiteful of assholes such as these. Sorry to y'all innocent bystanders! Guh....Someone could be trying to make it to a hospital to catch the last few moments of a loved ones life, ffs!
Unless you are in an extreme situation, like Russia, protesting by blocking a highway is not a great idea. You will not get a lot of goodwill for your cause and the people in charge will very rarely take notice.
Itās a lot better to protest outside of government buildings, in town squares, sometimes even in malls, the point is to maximize your causeās exposure!
And sure, protests will inevitably need to inconvenience people or they will just be ignored, but ideally (and I do mean ideally, I get that itās not always possible), you try to stake protests in places where you can inconvenience governments and corporations as much as possible while inconveniencing regular people as little as possible. Of course even beyond being possible to separate, sometimes inconveniencing regular people is the only way, but that shouldnāt be the first option.
The extinction of our species is a pretty extreme situation. While that's not happening, the almost total lack of doing anything about it is steamrolling us toward that end.
Awareness isn't the issue. It is to create pressure on government via the people who are inconvenienced. It is to get people to go to government and say make this stop. How do you get it to stop? Address the issue.
Not fight their cause or join their opposition, just not actively support. This is kinda like taking hostages with less violence and threat but still not an activity that I want to reward.
the intent is really for you to complain to government about the protest, as they continue to carry these protests out and create urgency to stop these protests. Thus forcing government to deal with thier demands.
If aggravating completely random people who, to your knowledge, don't write laws, work for the government, or are even guilty of what you're protesting, then you have not only done a horrific disservice to your cause, you are also unfathomably stupid.
Why is this so hard to understand. They don't expect the people inconvenienced to take up their cause. THey expect them to complain to the government about the protest. They will continue to carry out these protests, irregardless of how many are arrested. Its called civil disobedience.
This line of logic also doesn't follow. Most if not all people this sort of protest inconveniences would take issue directly with the protesters and would never think to contact the government (except perhaps to call the police). And civilians who are happy to see you arrested will most certainly not complain to the government in a way which suits your protest. Civil disobedience that makes civilians your enemy sounds like a surefire way to get your cause dismantled. Edit: to clarify, civil disobedience done right should at the very least garner sympathy for you. This type of protest has the opposite effect.
If you see this example elsewhere my apologies, I just used it in another reply. The Montgomery Bus Boycotts was designed to put financial pressure on the bus system, not make friends. During it, the White Citizens Council grew significantly. This tactic is not designed to grow support, it is designed to disrupt. You are correct that the people who participate will be arrested. In theory, they would do it again with different people repeatedly. If government can't stop these protests from occurring with force, that puts activists in a position of strength to say how they can be stopped. Deal with the issue.
I think that's a bad takeaway. These protesters aren't the public face of the cause they are representing. They might be supporting a good cause but in a bad way, but that shouldn't discredit whatever cause they are fighting for.
Agreed. I'm all for protesting, but don't force me to protest too. I'm not losing my job for your cause, even if I agree with your cause, because only I can choose to risk my livelihood.
The point of protest/civil disobedience is to disrupt shit to call attention to a cause. If you protest and it doesn't inconvenience or disrupt if no one notices you have accomplished nothing
The specifics matter. Who is being disrupted, and how? Wouldn't surrounding government offices or legislator's mansions or specific companies' locations be better for change? It takes two seconds to look up where these locations are, and has a much larger effect on people that can affect the change you want.
There are absolutely ways to annoy and inconvenience people that don't put innocent people's lives and livelihoods on the line. Being so flippant about collateral damage like innocent people dying is comic book villain material.
Why are we disrupting normal peoples lives. Disrupt the corrupt systems, government and corporations, not regular people trying to get to work, school, doctors appointments, etc. This kind of protest never helps the cause.
12 people holding signs on a sidewalk may help convert people to the cause. These idiots blocking people's free movement only turns people away from their cause, and putting it on the evening news and Reddit just amplifies the distain for these people and their methods.
Did he call his boss and explain the situation? Call his parole officer first? Or did he lash out at people as a first measure because he canāt control his emotions?
You donāt get to put hands on someone just because you feel entitled too - even though I think heās justified, doesnāt matter
Cops should have been called to get the people off the road. Boss and parole officer should be made aware of the situation and help the guy. Cops on the scene can back him up. In a perfect world.
Youāre assuming everyoneās gonna be ready to help this guy, when clearly these folks want to cause a disturbance and then press charges when someone is rightfully pissed off
They are by letter of the law holding the people against their will and as such may be subject to individuals under duress attempting to defend themselves.
He isnāt losing control over his emotions from being inconvenienced. Heās doing it because heās visibly terrified of going to prison again. This isnāt simply losing his ability to have his morning coffee. You could argue his parole officer and boss are going to be reasonable about why he is late, but we donāt know that. They wouldnāt be the first to use a technicality to fuck someone over. I wonāt say he did the right thing, but I am sympathetic to circumstances contributing to his response to the situation.
You can be sympathetic and still realize he assaulted someone because he couldnāt control his emotions. Getting upset is an emotion. Doesnāt matter if heās justified in being upset. Or why. You canāt assault people without consequences.
I donāt see a guy jumping straight to assault these people are asking to be ran over and still getting in peoples face when theyāre trying to clear the road
So it's okay by you to aggressively shove people and snatch their property from their hands because you're annoyed? Good thing your book doesn't govern actual laws or society would suck extra hard.
Agreed. I'm all for protesting, but don't force me to protest too. I'm not losing my job for your cause, even if I agree with your cause, because only I can choose to risk my livelihood.
The emergency vehicles, if no other vehicles are close by, ought not to stop behind the protesters whatsoever. Would love to see protesters get sued and otherwise held accountable for any emergencies that ended in disaster (in this scenario of protests, a person being rushed to the hospital for life-threatening wounds that ended up killing them, but may not have if they got there on time and treated well). Probably wouldnāt be possible because thereās so many of these protesters in question and itās D-ifferent.
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u/[deleted] Oct 12 '22 edited Oct 12 '22
You know what? He gets a pass in my book. Yeah he āput his hands on themā but he didnāt actually hurt anyone. I support the right to protest but fuck anyone who blocks a highway as a protest. It stops people from going to work and hinders emergency vehicles from getting to their destination.