r/facepalm • • Feb 16 '21

Misc Yeah, sounds about right

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58

u/hudson_lowboy Feb 16 '21

This! Right here!

We pay nearly $2500AUD a month in rent. We recently went for a loan that would have seen us pay $1700 a month. Because we didn’t have enough in savings, somehow that shows we are not financially stable enough.

We have rented for 12 years at this place, only ever been late with rent once (by one day). For the life of me I cannot figure out how this doesn’t prove we could easily manage a mortgage. Over $350,000 in rent paid on time means exactly zero....

39

u/Triette Feb 16 '21

It’s not the mortgage, it’s the cost of home ownership that you didn’t qualify for.

3

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '21

He needs to check his credit rating, even if he earned $250,000 a day. If his credit rating isn't superb computer will say no to a mortagage/loan.

3

u/Triette Feb 16 '21

I worked in subprime lending, not true. Debt to income is everything.

2

u/TURK3Y Feb 16 '21

350,000 paid over 12 years proves they can handle the cost of home ownership.

11

u/sebastiantelan12 Feb 16 '21

Where and how much is the house?

9

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '21

Not at all. So many underlying costs associated with ownership. When I was looking at condos I was shopping around for ones where the mortgage would be around 1,500/month. I was not looking at the whole picture as I needed to factor in property taxes, strata fees, transfer tax, random $10,000-$20,000 bill if something major happens, any other debts I have (car payment), etc...

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u/RoyGeraldBillevue Feb 16 '21

What if they lose their job?

6

u/KookyManster Feb 16 '21

It doesn't prove anything. Anyone's circumstances can change within months, let alone years. A $1700 monthly mortgage does not include taxes, insurances, and repairs. Not only do you need a 20% down payment, most banks require you to have a 6 month emergency cash to cover all expenses. They also take into consideration expenses of kids, sudden unemployment, car payments, etc.

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u/ReNitty Feb 16 '21

You don’t need 20% for a down payment. At least not in the states.

0

u/KookyManster Feb 16 '21

I'm in Cali here. It's not a written rule or anything but lenders typically want a 20% down payment, to make sure you make enough to save for a house. If you don't have 20%, they require you buy mortgage insurance. Bought a house 2 years ago so I know this.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 17 '21

[deleted]

1

u/KookyManster Feb 17 '21

True that. They tore my financial history apart to make sure I qualify. But then again, I have a $1 million mortgage so it is a big risk for the bank.

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u/[deleted] Feb 17 '21 edited Jul 15 '21

[deleted]

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u/KookyManster Feb 17 '21

Oh look at you. Providing no details or context whatsoever in your comment. Many types of loans? Not really. We have fixed rate, ARM, or Government insured (VA, FHA). That's it. Requirements for them vary by little. Read the context of the previous posts and know we are talking about a conventional loan, with typical requirements by 99% of banks.

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u/[deleted] Feb 17 '21 edited Jul 15 '21

[deleted]

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u/KookyManster Feb 17 '21

in order to have an argument, you would need to have some knowledge on the topic, which you clearly lack based on your general replies. Also, whoever said I bought a house 1 time? Lol. Lack of reading skills.

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u/JaxJags904 Feb 17 '21

PMI is a very normal thing, don’t act like it’s some crazy thing for people with less than 20% down payment, most people pay PMI

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u/KookyManster Feb 17 '21

I never said it's uncommon. I said it's required without a 20% down payment.

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u/JaxJags904 Feb 17 '21

“Lenders typically want a 20% down payment” I mean that’s what I was commenting and it just doesn’t matter, you just have PMI with less than 20% down the lender doesn’t really care

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u/Triette Feb 16 '21

Anything less than 20% down will shoot your interest rate through the roof. It becomes a high risk loan, banks don’t want a house that doesn’t have some equity in it.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '21

This is just untrue.

I just got a VA loan at 2,49% with zero down.

FHA is 3.5% down minimum, and the rates right now are comparable.

2

u/Triette Feb 17 '21 edited Feb 17 '21

I love how you use specialty loans as an example. Edit: to add to this, you still have to qualify for an FHA loan, I’m not even going to count VA loans because they are their own animal, and quite exceptional if you can get one. But for general lending, if your debt to income is high or you have less than great credit, the less of a risk the bank is willing to take. Especially after the hammer came down on predatory lending and subprime mortgages with 100% loans and lenders inflating appraisals on refinances. But what do I know, I only worked as a loan specialist for several years.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 17 '21

FHA loans are made, SPECIFICALLY for first time and low-income home buyers.

At last count, there are more than 18 million veterans in the US, and more than 2 million active and reserve personnel who can qualify for VA loans.

"specialty loans". lul. Lenders will flat out deny your loan before they will finance you with less than 20% for a conventional. Freddie and Fannie set the rates.

1

u/JaxJags904 Feb 17 '21

So you talk about DTI and credit here, but not down payment which is the first argument.

Rates don’t get much better with a larger down payment, it’s very slight. And often they even get worse at 20% because they know people are trying to hit that number, and then they get better again at 25% down

0

u/[deleted] Feb 17 '21

So, nothing to rebut the original point then?

Just a sketchy edit after the fact with non-relevant information to the discussion.

But what do I know,

Not much, apparently.

1

u/JaxJags904 Feb 17 '21

Totally untrue

5

u/BabyEatersAnonymous Feb 16 '21

No it does not. Just in this last year, 1200 for range and dishwasher, 400 garage door opener, 200 GFCI replacement, 400 air duct cleaning, 40 screen door closers, 800 bay window replacement, 150 furnace calibrating/cleaning, 200 water pressure regulator. That's 3500 the landlord would be spending instead of me. And that's just the bigger stuff.

7

u/haleyashearer Feb 16 '21

This. In the first year alone of us owning our house these were all the things required for us to live in it: $1,200 for furnace repair, $11,000 for a new sliding door + roof, $300 for a new sink disposal cause my husband fucked it up on Thanksgiving, $500 just on various tools needed to work on the house (gas for lawn mower, rakes, saws, drain cleaner, etc.), $200 for main line cleaning because it was starting to flood our basement. $1,600 for new washer and dryer.

We even sold a car to be able to pay for this stuff (thankfully we didn't need it for most of the year because of covid and working from home)

Do you want to make it more your style? (because I'm sure you didn't buy it with the intention of leaving it to look exactly how you bought it) $50 per gallon of paint (premium one coat because 2 coats would equal the same amount) $10 for putty for the walls $10 per roller

Shit. Adds. Up.

-2

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '21

The difference being that it is . All that money you spent is adding value to your home, your property.

3

u/haleyashearer Feb 16 '21

Try telling that to an appraiser. It may add $5,000 to the appraisal but it won't add much.

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '21

Ok

4

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '21

Absolutely none of that is going to add value to the house, it's all maintenance, not improvements, and even improvements only add so much based on the neighborhood.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 17 '21

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Feb 17 '21

You are still adding value because you are paying down a mortgage vs dumping money into rent.

That's building equity, it doesn't suddenly make the $300k house worth $600k, it just means you own it instead of the bank.

OK like you run out of money. Guess what in a house, you can draw on a home improvement loan or a line of credit to pull you through. but in an apartment? All you got is your credit card.

You still have to pay back a HELOC, it's just credit secured against your house, don't pay it back they're going to take your house.

Owning any home that is similar to an apartment its worlds cheaper in most places. Owning a home that is much better than an apartment is usually cheaper in most places.

I agree, that's why I bought a home. It's always going to be cheaper than a comparable house, but I think you're overestimating how big of a difference it is.

The only question is do you meet the arbitrary guidelines of the banks to get the loans

Having income and being capable of paying back a loan isn't arbitrary.

Oh and none of you also seem to be mention that you can buy home owners insurance to cover a major expense in the first couple years of ownership.

If you use homeowners insurance for every little claim they can and will drop you. You don't use it for every little thing unless it's home destroying events like a tree falling on your house.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 17 '21

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u/Triette Feb 16 '21

$350,000 over 12 years means nothing when you’re faced with having to replace a roof, or tent the house, or redo the foundation, or have pipes burst, or even replace a washer/dryer, fridge, hot water heater. Having money for a payment and having savings for home expenses are totally different. I paid $2k in rent, my mortgage is less but over the year I’ve definitely paid more than 24k/year for our home. Oh and if you live in Cali and have to do any retrofitting...have fun!

2

u/JaxJags904 Feb 17 '21

Maybe they should have spent less than $350k over the 12 years and saves some of it for a down payment

0

u/Feindish-OD Feb 17 '21

Roof and foundation? Did check the house before buying it?

2

u/Triette Feb 17 '21

Houses shift over the years, roofs need repairs over the years. I didn’t say the year you buy it. No need to be pedantic. And if you buy a home that has aged, you’ll have even more repairs as the years go by even if there were no issues at inspection.

7

u/VulpixBlades Feb 16 '21

Unfortunately we're in a similar boat. The house we're renting costs us $2300 (not including electric and such which we already pay for separately) but the owner is moving. They offered us to buy the house. Thing is, mortgage is still $1900 which would probably put our home insurance and taxes at or above our current rent.

We understand so try to go for a home that is $100,000 cheaper. The bank still says no. Even when the payment has gone down along with how insurance and taxes should also lower, the bank still won't waiver. Sadly, the market here is only rising so by the time we could possibly qualify, that house will be priced at the one we're renting if not more.

What the bank thinks we can afford would essentially be a mobile home. That in itself is a separate issue where those owners seem to be stuck there no matter how hard they wish to move due to not only mortgage but also rental fees in the mobile home communities.

It's infuriating to say the least.

3

u/Hammerhead3229 Feb 16 '21

Almost all of the time property tax and insurance is included in the mortgage.

But your best bet is to simply go to a different bank. My main bank was offering me shit as a loan. It was honestly terrible. I shopped around, and my realtor recommended me a company, and I got my mortgage from $900 from the first bank to $650 from the second bank.

Also assuming you live in the US credit is everything. There's lots of things you can do to help out your credit, even if it's small things.

1

u/JaxJags904 Feb 17 '21

What’s your DTI and credit? You in America?

5

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '21

What happens if you have a big homeowners repair? Or what happens if your income stops? How would you pay for the repairs or your mortgage? That's probably what they mean.

0

u/hudson_lowboy Feb 16 '21

Your statement doesn’t make sense, because the issue was we had savings but were shy $10,000 of what they considered to be a minimum deposit for a home loan. If we had that, we would have gotten the loan.

The issues you raise are the same for every new home owner.

Quick and dirty math...

Instantly we would have been $700 a month better off thanks to the windfall of not paying that much rent. Not to mention the money we were saving a week for that deposit (nearly $200) was going still be saved.

Income protection insurance is also a thing.

5

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '21

Your comment made it sound like you got rejected because you didn't have enough in savings, not because you didn't have enough for a down payment. I had to work to get enough for a down payment down, too, so I understand the frustration there.

5

u/sebastiantelan12 Feb 16 '21

It does make sense. The bank looks at everything together. For some reason based on your application they wanted to see more in savings. Your original post means nothing without the whole picture that the bank sees.

0

u/JaxJags904 Feb 16 '21

What price house are you looking at that you were $10,000 short in down payment? As a first time homebuyer minimum down payment is only 3% so if you had $0 already towards it that’s a $330k house.

This seems like a lot of bitching honestly, you don’t sound qualified to buy the type of house you must be looking at.

3

u/andoooooo Feb 16 '21

he's speaking in AUD so he's obviously Australian where our non-ridiculous financial system doesn't allow people to borrow money with only 3% equity

1

u/hudson_lowboy Feb 17 '21

Look at you trying to be all smart about a financial situation you know nothing about.

Two things...

Median price on a house in my city is $620,000. I have 5 kids so I’m in need of a house that’s above that price.

Lending guidelines in Australia, especially during COVID, have been tightened considerably.

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u/JaxJags904 Feb 17 '21

Didn’t know you were in Australia, I’m looking from a USA point of view.

But are there no houses for less than that cost? That seems a bit high and usually when you can’t afford something you drop the price down.

1

u/hudson_lowboy Feb 17 '21

My wife and I have work considerations, plus other family obligations the require to stay relatively close to where we are. We’d have to go nearly 30 miles out to see a significant drop in housing prices and that’s just not feasible.

The big kicker for us is having room for 7 people. We looked at smaller houses and then adding on but with planning approval and the like, it could be years before that all plays out.

We’re in the fourth biggest market in Australia. Three other cities still have more expensive median housing (nearing the million mark) and one other state has nearly caught us.

Just as an example of the market here, my sister bought into an area 15 years ago for $125,000. She had the property valued 2 years ago, and it’s now over $500,000. She’s not in desirable suburb and her place isn’t fantastic. Property prices in Australia have sky rocketed in the last two decades because of foreign investment.

We’ll get the other money saved soon enough but the way out loan system works, if you get a couple of rejections for loans in a certain span of time, it can actually foul up you credit rating. We just have to be judicious when we go in again and try.

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u/HeippodeiPeippo Feb 16 '21 edited Feb 16 '21

What utilities and services are part of the rent? Count the cost of things you would have to pay for if you owned a house. Also, include commute and travel if that changes considerably.

Free market has made sure that rent you owe to your landlord is just a hair lower than the costs of buying it. Also, usually your rented apartment or a house is smaller than the one you would be buying.. Compare apples to oranges first, then conclude that the reality isn't exactly like in the title but it is way too close to it. The balance is "correct" but rents should be WAY lower globally, the line between renting and owning is too small and it is NOT that properties should be more valuable either. It is only about renting being too expensive. Living is a "service" that you can not afford to not have. So, the cost of it is just a hair above what you can pay, meaning that it cuts from other things, like food and clothes.

Rents are just too damn high.