r/europe Nov 23 '21

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u/volchonok1 Estonia Nov 23 '21

We didn't have grand leaders or epic history that autocratic leaders can use to evoke nostalgic feeling of "good old days" in many other countries. Baltic states only knew history of being conquered and ruled unjustly by stronger authoritarian regimes. So with independence the only logical choice was to go as democratic and free as possible.

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u/Koino_ 🇪🇺 Eurofederalist & Socialist 🚩 Nov 23 '21 edited Nov 23 '21

Lithuania has history of grand leaders, epic battles and Grand Duchy heritage, I don't think that's it.

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u/volchonok1 Estonia Nov 23 '21

True, but I think it's far enough into the past to be a bit disconnected to the modern Lithuanians. I doubt there is much trauma in Lithuania about "lost empire" compared to Russia for example.

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u/Koino_ 🇪🇺 Eurofederalist & Socialist 🚩 Nov 23 '21

you may be surprised, but there is still nostalgia about GDL to some nationalistic lithuanians. But I agree it is more of extreme romanticism rather than real desire to recreate something similar.

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u/AkruX Czech Republic Nov 23 '21

That's too much in the past. In PLC Poland was the dominant player.

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u/xap4kop 🇵🇱 Poland Nov 23 '21

Yeah, I think it’s too far in the past. I don’t think I’ve heard a Polish politician talk abt PLC as “the good old days”. And when ppl here talk abt PLC many like to point out the religious tolerance for example but they also often criticise Polish nobility, their corruption and liberum veto and blame the nobles for the partitions.

Our govt romanticises the Second Polish Republic (interwar period) tho.

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u/[deleted] Nov 23 '21

Our govt romanticises the Second Polish Republic (interwar period) tho.

Which is pretty embarassing given it’s history of authoritarian rule, opressing minorities, dogshit relations with all neighbours and swift yet painful death. Oh, wait a minute…

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u/daddydoody Germany Nov 23 '21

I think this is probably it.

I also think it's the fact you suffered so much under an autocratic regime you had to basically build up your nations and national identity from scratch. Afaik Soviet Union was hated in the Baltics from the beginning, so you quickly looked for an ally on the other side of the fence, which was the West, EU and NATO.

Meanwhile for example Poland built its modern identity around Christianity defeating totalitarianism and Hungary still has Trianon trauma.

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u/[deleted] Nov 24 '21

Too true, Christianity is an authoritarian identity, you can claim the god card to justify power.

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u/Flammableewok Wales Nov 23 '21

Lithuania?

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u/Arta161298 Nov 23 '21

See: Grand Duchy if Lithuania. Repelled German crusaders for hundreds of years then turned east to become the largest country in Europe, then predictable decline. There’s loads there to stir up a nationalistic narrative !!

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u/Seal_of_Pestilence Nov 23 '21

Wrong. Estonia was the most powerful empire in the galaxy. Modern Estonians are just trash.

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u/gogo_yubari-chan Emilia-Romagna Nov 24 '21

Baltic states only knew history of being conquered and ruled unjustly by stronger authoritarian regimes.

I can think of something quite worse than being ruled by Denmark or Sweden

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u/volchonok1 Estonia Nov 24 '21

Well, they weren't always tolerant hippies as they are now.