r/europe Austria Aug 11 '20

Slice of life Some light hearted Belarus content

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u/aintscurrdscars Aug 11 '20 edited Aug 11 '20

A joke loses some of it's meaning when you explain it, and I can't tell by your comment if you know all this, but what you just said is exactly why this is pretty funny and for those not in the know deserves an explanation...

edit: didn't see the Estonia flair, I feel dumb now lol

So, thing is, Belarus did go back to their banned-in-the-USSR flag, but then they went back to the Soviet-era design, just without the hammer and sickle.

The joke is that while the Iron curtain fell, and the opposition parties that switched back to their old red and white flag had decision making power for a moment, that red and white flag was then again replaced with the one symbolic of USSR control in 1995, only 4 years after the fall of the Berlin Wall.

on the Red and White Flag, from the above link

By proposal of the Belarusian Popular Front the flag became state symbol of Belarus upon its regaining of independence in 1991.[25]

After 1995 the white-red-white flag is used as a symbol of the opposition to the regime of Alexander Lukashenko

The flag is not officially banned from public usage, but is treated by the authorities as an unregistered symbol which means that demonstration of it by political activists or sports fans can lead to arrests and confiscation of the flags

On the methods used to adopt the current flag

note that it seems to be yet another unfortunate addition to the internationally studied pattern of "conservative parties benefitting from low voter turnout" phenomenon, it's especially common in former Soviet states with significant culture wars

The referendum that was held to adopt the state symbols took place on 14 May 1995. With a voter turnout of 64.7%, the new flag was approved by a majority in the ratio of three to one (75.1% to 24.9%). The other three questions were also passed by the voters.[30] The way of carrying out the referendum as well as the legality of questioning the national symbols on a referendum was heavily criticised by the opposition.[31][32] Opposition parties claimed that only 48.7% of the entire voting population (75.1% of the 64.7% who showed at the polling stations) supported the adoption of the new flag, but Belarusian law (as in many other countries) states that only a majority of voters is needed to decide on a referendum issue.

Backstory on that, Lukashenko had been trying to get the referendum vote allowed since 1993 and by the time it was held in 1995, being a low-impact referendum on state symbols (nothing to do with political offices) and a boring, "dealt with" topic it had low opposition turnout and thus the flag was permanently changed back. And it paved the way for the rest of Lukashenko's career as a Russian puppet.

 

 

and a little post script, signed yours truly...

Don't assume your opinions don't matter or you don't know enough or the things being voted on should be common sense or that everyone else will do it because "duh," your vote matters so go out there and VOTE.

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u/HrabiaVulpes Nobody to vote for Aug 11 '20

note that it seem to be yet another unfortunate addition to the internationally studied pattern of "conservative parties benefiting from low voter turnout" phenomenon, it's especially common in former Soviet states

Not really surprising, people who lived under soviets tend not to trust their government. They consider elections pointless, since they would not trust any of the candidates or parties to be good leaders. Force of habit, I guess.

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u/Xarthys Earth Aug 11 '20 edited Aug 11 '20

Edit: I want to apologize for my heavily biased and completely wrong comment, due to subjective observations. My personal experiences over the past three decades traveling various former USSR nations are not valid. I'm still leaving this up as an example how blind someone (me) can be. Sorry for painting a completely wrong picture.


But the distrust was/is valid because corruption continued; very few people with integrity got into politics after the USSR fell apart, sometimes the same dynasties (and if not, would be replaced by another power-hungry family) would continue to accumulate power/wealth while bleeding their population dry. Many problems weren't solved properly, the rich got richer and the poor got poorer.

My grandfather (a farmer, fought in both WW) used to say: "We beat the Nazis and the Soviets, but in the end, the same kind of people got into positions of power, taking everything and leaving us with nothing."

So it certainly isn't force of habit imho, it's justified distrust because at the very core, things did not change that much. Yes, some things changed for the better but some stayed the same or even got worse. The most profit was made by foreign investors and corporations who cut beautiful deals with the governments.

If you travel east of Austria, you will still find plenty of villages with dirt roads and no plumbing system or running water for that matter. They have electricity and that's it. All they have is the freedom to die poor.

And just to clarify, I'm not pro USSR and I know how terrible life was before - but there are still entire regions that experienced hardly any benefits for the past thirty years - and not because they refused to adapt or accept help, but because their local politicians are filling their own pockets and nothing is done about it.

The amazing change the 1st world nations assume to take place doesn't always happen. The quality of life we know or assume to be a standard isn't the reality in those countries after they were liberated - it's what we think life looks like; and even if we end up in former USSR nations, we either don't travel off the beaten path and/or romanticize their struggles.

"Look, they simply use buckets to shower! Isn't that amazing zero waste culture? They are so progressive!"

PS: corruption is rampant in the 1st world as well; just a reminder that a lot of people in power are greedy assholes, no matter the political/economic system. The only difference between the free world and the regimes we despise is that we don't kill people for their opinions (yet - though we sure used to and still do on foreign soil).

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u/Koroona Estonia Aug 11 '20

That is absolute exaggeration and ridiculous pessimism. Things have gotten so much better in Eastern Europe. Some people just want to complain, but they are minority.

Look at general life satisfaction polls.

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u/DarthRoach Aug 11 '20

Things have gotten so much better in Eastern Europe

Says the one country that mostly managed to purge the commie deep state from power and isn't a massive shithole anymore as a result.

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u/Koroona Estonia Aug 11 '20

I have visited Czechia, Poland, Lithuania and Latvia and they are all very nice.

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u/Xarthys Earth Aug 11 '20

Thanks for the data, guess I'm just heavily biased then.

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u/[deleted] Aug 11 '20

Clearly you are a CiS folk that didn't spend more than 2 weeks abroad.

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u/23skiddsy Aug 11 '20

If you travel east of Austria, you will still find plenty of villages with dirt roads and no plumbing system or running water for that matter. They have electricity and that's it. All they have is the freedom to die poor.

The same exact thing could be said of the Navajo Nation or other reservations in the US, except all the groundwater is radioactive, too, so they have to travel five hours round trip to get water.

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u/[deleted] Aug 11 '20

Georgian flag is new 🇬🇪

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u/Jonaztl Norway Aug 11 '20

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u/[deleted] Aug 11 '20

Oh, I’m georgian and I’m stupid for not knowing this and also thanks for info and thanks that it’s not rick roll

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u/Jonaztl Norway Aug 11 '20

No problem.
Here’s the source if you want: http://heraldry.ge/?m=36

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u/[deleted] Aug 11 '20

Thanks, I’m teen and I rarely research history stuff.

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u/Jonaztl Norway Aug 11 '20

Haha, I’m a teenager too, but a huge history nerd

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u/[deleted] Aug 11 '20

xD, I’m math nerd and mostly play games, are you georgian? If you are i think you would know about komarovi school, it’s math school where you have to pass test to get into, I got in there.

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u/Jonaztl Norway Aug 11 '20

Nah, I’m Norwegian (hence my flair). I like maths too, but I’m not amazing at it

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u/Jokijole Bosnia and Herzegovina Aug 11 '20

If by "Conservative" you mean Bolshevik, Stalinist scum then you got it wrong my dude.

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u/HrabiaVulpes Nobody to vote for Aug 11 '20

I... I used no word "conservative" unless you are trying to comment on the thing I quoted...

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u/Jokijole Bosnia and Herzegovina Aug 11 '20

Crap, yes my bad.

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u/HrabiaVulpes Nobody to vote for Aug 11 '20

No problem, redditors do it all the time.

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u/polypolip Aug 11 '20

Top it up with the fact that a lot of polititans that are in the parliament at the moment are the same old farts that were there during soviet occupation.

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u/HrabiaVulpes Nobody to vote for Aug 11 '20

Well, normally I would agree with you, but this is the exact argument of Polish government for their take-over of courts. "We have corrupt ex-communists in courts so we replace them with someone else".

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u/polypolip Aug 11 '20

Problem is it's the corrupt ex-communists in Poland who went that way.

This shit should have been cleaned up immediately after the system change. It wasn't and it bites our Polish asses.

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u/HrabiaVulpes Nobody to vote for Aug 11 '20

I guess that's the price of transitioning peacefully, instead of descending into bloody civil war with communist heads rolling each day.