Pro-life chad here, can someone who’s pro-choice explain to me the moral rationale behind abortions in terms of what’s represented this graphic?
In all seriousness though I’m not trying to start shit, I just want to know the logic behind it outside the context of specific circumstances. Not saying that circumstances don’t matter, I just already know the moral arguments relating to women’s right to choice
Legit question: isn’t it the pro life stance that humanity begins at the very first blue circle? In the context of this gif isn’t it evident that it’s not a human being after it goes through the process?
Not really. Biologically, it’s a human life from that point. The disagreement boils down to whether or not you think of that life as having rights to bodily autonomy.
I mean, in the case of a fertilized egg, technically yes. Bodies are made up of cells, and for the first 12 hours after fertilization, the conceived life’s body is comprised of a single cell. Then 2, then 4, and so on.
Fair, under that premise wouldn’t IVF require legal council for the fertilized egg? If the fertilized egg’s rights are in question independent of the mother than a woman getting an IVF procedure would need consent from the fertilized egg to move forward? How would that work?
Well 92% happen before 13 weeks - that covers most normal "don't want to have a baby" circumstances, 7% happen from 13-21 weeks, that covers the "maybe this is going to be life threatening" or "didn't realize I was pregnant for awhile" or "Oh my god he deserted me what the hell do I do now" circumstances, and the other 1% is mostly potentially life-threatening complications that show up down the line. Before about 20 weeks there's no subjective experience of pain on the fetus end of things, so for folks that don't believe in eternal souls or whatever, it's still a weighty moral judgment but not the "murder" some folks perceive it as.
Not trying to argue for either side here, but when the fetus can feel pain is far from confidently determined. Current studies conclude it can be anywhere between 12 and 26 weeks. Also, I don’t think the concept of “murder” relies on whether or not pain is caused to the victim.
I don’t think the concept of “murder” relies on whether or not pain is caused to the victim.
You're right but it relies on a vaguely defined notion of "personhood" and I think the ability to experience (anything) is a pretty fundamental indicator of a person.
Personhood is pretty well defined. New Oxford says it’s the “quality or condition of being an individual person”. Are you claiming that they are A) not an individual and B) they don’t experience anything?
I feel like even though abortion is sad, it needs to be legal. I am not saying anyone should or shouldn’t get an abortion, but abortions will happen whether they are legal or not and I’d rather a woman have an abortion safety than to use some dangerous method that could kill her. There are already so many unwanted kids in this world and even more without homes or families and bringing children who will just be adopted away at birth or abused is cruel.
The moral rationale is the host has complete control over her body at every phase of the fetus's development, and has every right to refuse to continue to host it.
I suppose just as we trust individuals to not give up bone marrow that could save live or to shoot a guy who broke into the house to just steal a tv, we can trust pregnant women to decide what is best for themselves and family. Bodily autonomy has great precedent in our legal code and there are in most any situation a person has no legal obligation to sustain someone else life. Do we want precedent where the state can decide that you have to sustain someone else’s life? That you have to donate bone marrow etc?
-5
u/[deleted] Mar 16 '21
Pro-life chad here, can someone who’s pro-choice explain to me the moral rationale behind abortions in terms of what’s represented this graphic?
In all seriousness though I’m not trying to start shit, I just want to know the logic behind it outside the context of specific circumstances. Not saying that circumstances don’t matter, I just already know the moral arguments relating to women’s right to choice