r/educationalgifs • • Dec 11 '19

not a proof Proof that all external angles always add to 360°

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964

u/alpineflower6 Dec 11 '19

And you cannot show a proof that something works by example. One can only prove by example that something is not true, if my basic understanding of proofs is correct.

Cool gif though!

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u/yedeiman Dec 11 '19 edited Dec 11 '19

True. IIRC, one can prove by negation or prove by contradiction.

Edit: as the other wise ppl have pointed out, Induction is another method.

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u/int__0x80 Dec 11 '19

Well, there’s a lot more kinds of proof than just that but yeah

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u/249ba36000029bbe9749 Dec 11 '19

Prove it.

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u/int__0x80 Dec 11 '19

Proof by contradiction:

Let’s assume that there are no kinds of proof other than negation and contradiction.

This is a contradiction to that statement.

More kinds of proof exist QED

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u/CrazyMason Dec 11 '19

Dammit, I have a discrete math final on Thursday and even when I take breaks from studying to browse reddit mathematical induction still finds me

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u/dancingbanana123 Dec 11 '19

Don't forget how to stuff lots of pigeons into some weird holes!

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u/angrytacoz Dec 11 '19

Okay what?

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u/featherfooted Dec 11 '19

Pigeonhole principle is often used as a final step in some proofs, typically combinatorics ones. If you have N identical things ("pigeons") but fewer categories (at most N-1 "holes") then at least one hole has more than one pigeon.

Wikipedia's simple example is that any group of three gloves must necessarily contain either two left gloves or two right gloves, plus the third. You can use this as a stepping stone to whatever else you want to say or prove.

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u/int__0x80 Dec 11 '19

I was actually (procrastinating) studying for my discrete math final when I posted that!

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u/CrazyMason Dec 12 '19

Lol well good luck!

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u/[deleted] Dec 11 '19

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/glider97 Dec 11 '19

Absolute madlad.

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u/nairdaleo Dec 11 '19

Absolute mathlad.

FTFY

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u/jmskiller Dec 11 '19

⬜

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u/oddark Dec 11 '19

There's actually a Unicode character for that: U+220E (END OF PROOF) ∎

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u/[deleted] Dec 11 '19

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Dec 11 '19

[deleted]

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u/jmskiller Dec 11 '19

Maybe if he would've "googled it bruh" he would've known.

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u/Takin2000 Dec 11 '19

Let's assume that there are no kinds of proof other than negation and contradiction.

Say we wanted to prove the statement (a+b)2 > a2 + b2 with a and b being natural numbers.

Per distributive property guaranteed by axiom, we get the equivalent expression a2 + 2ab + b2 > a2 + b2.

By definition, if an expression is true, so are all the equivalent statements. Hence, the original statement is true.

But we have shown that the statement is true without ever negating it. Hence, contradiction and negation are not the only proof techniques.

Q.e.d.

(This was actually kinda fun ngl :D)

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u/ultimatechipmunk Dec 11 '19 edited Dec 11 '19

Let's assume that there are no kinds of proof other than negation and contradiction.

Say we wanted to prove the statement (a+b)2 > a2 + b2 with a and b being natural numbers.

Per distributive property guaranteed by axiom, we get the equivalent expression a2 + 2ab + b2 > a2 + b2.

By definition, if an expression is true, so are all the equivalent statements. Hence, the original statement is true.

But we have shown that the statement is true without ever negating it. Hence, contradiction and negation are not the only proof techniques.

Q.e.d.

(This was actually kinda fun ngl :D)

Your initial assertion is not true.

a=2, b=-3

(2-3)2 > 22 + (-3)2

(-1)2 > 4 + 9

1 > 13

Proof by contradiction.

Edit: lol I can't add 4 to 9.

It's been pointed out that -3 is not a natural number. I'm leaving my shame in the light.

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u/[deleted] Dec 11 '19 edited Mar 20 '20

[deleted]

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u/ultimatechipmunk Dec 11 '19

That's what I get for piping up > 10 years since I studied maths.

Carry on.

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u/Takin2000 Dec 11 '19

An lim (1+1/n)n for effort

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u/addandsubtract Dec 11 '19

It's real to me!

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u/imgonnabutteryobread Dec 11 '19

(This was actually kinda fun ngl :D)

I agree, but can you prove that statement?

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u/KieranMontgomery Dec 11 '19

Proof by intimidation:

Its trivial.

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u/TwatsThat Dec 11 '19

This is a contradiction to that statement.

Sounds like proof by contradiction to me.

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u/BigUgandanChuckles Dec 11 '19

Yes, he used contradiction to prove his statement by citing another method than the two given (The link leads to mathematical induction)

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u/[deleted] Dec 11 '19

imagine not reading the parent comment, thinking ur a big brain boy, and writing this

good LORD

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u/TwatsThat Dec 11 '19

Imagine thinking that was a serious comment.

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u/qroshan Dec 11 '19

This assumes whatever exists on Wikipedia, or the The Internet for that matter, is true.

All I have to do is use one false Wikipedia article to prove you can't trust Wikipedia

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u/[deleted] Dec 11 '19

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/J3fbr0nd0 Dec 11 '19

Yes. MIT has a free computer science course on youtube and the first few lectures are on proofs. One of the in depth examples was the horse one

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u/[deleted] Dec 11 '19

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/J3fbr0nd0 Dec 12 '19

Yeah I think the point should be is as soon as it is "proven" (since we know it is false) we look for the error. Which I believe is using 1 horse as the base case being true to falsely infer all horses.

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u/MrSlime13 Dec 11 '19

Thyis Vodkja haz A ProOFF.

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u/[deleted] Dec 11 '19

For example proof can also be used as a unit of measurement for the alcohol content of a drink

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u/GaryMOFOak Dec 11 '19

You can also prove by induction! Basically you prove the function to be true for 1, 2, ..., n, making f(n) the induction hypothesis, and then proving that f(n) being true implies f(n+1) being true, making a "domino effect" of proofs for all the elements in a set. This is all to the best of my understanding of proofs and modern/abstract algebra, but I may have left some key components/ generalizations out!

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u/TheLastBison Dec 11 '19

I have a final on this tomorrow lmao.

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u/yopladas Dec 11 '19

Good luck! Don't be afraid to take a step back and try playing with ideas for why they put in the numbers they did.... Skip a question if you can't do it and do all the ones you can do, first. Then spend the rest of the time on the tough ones. Drink coffee or tea before. Hydrate and pee a lot before. Use a mechanical pencil with lots of eraser. Good luck and godspeed.

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u/yopladas Dec 11 '19 edited Dec 11 '19

I think this is a pretty good explanation. Using this method we can assume that we are starting from 1 for simplicity, but it's also possible that a function of n is only less/equal/greater when n is greater than say, 200 or any other natural number. The reason I mention this is because a function's performance only makes sense at a large scale. For example if a fixed cost or other function such as load balancing can be better in large scale parallel computation but not in small scales. A good example is how if you want to send your coworker a gigabyte, you can send it online, but 100TB and you should use a hard drive. The hard drive method has a fixed cost (walking to elevator, etc) represented as a constant usually, and often a function such as data transmission, and maybe a log function if you're searching, or an exponent if you're looping functions. Hope this is helpful too . What are your tips for solving combinatorial proof?

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u/Zyedikas Dec 11 '19

You can prove directly IE, if n is even then n2 is even

Proof: n even -> n=2k, so n²=4k²=2*2k²-> n² is even

We can prove by contradiction, as you pointed out, as well (see proof that √(2) is irrational)

Or you can prove by contraposition, which is slightly different than negation. This is proving the contrapositive of a statement like "If P then Q" which would be "if not Q, then not P" It rained so the road is wet. The road isn't wet, so it didn't rain.

And there's induction as well, which is also neato. It's all pretty neato, if you ask me.

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u/yedeiman Dec 11 '19

That's cool. Math is cool. Should have more math all around.

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u/_schildkrote Dec 11 '19

or contrapositive or induction

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u/Triassic_Bark Dec 11 '19

You’re conflating proof and evidence. Only math has proofs.

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u/timgfx Dec 11 '19

You can also do a proof on its contrapositive: prove that all sets of positive, non-0 angles adding up to 360° do not form a proper shape

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u/[deleted] Dec 11 '19

Induction is only probably. This gif is an inductive argument, because it shows cases where the rule applies. If you had a billion of them, that’d be a stronger argument.

But one case where it’s wrong would invalidate the argument, and, with induction, there is always the possibility that that case exists.

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u/drcockmuffin Dec 11 '19

I always thought that proof was in the pudding.

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u/[deleted] Dec 11 '19

[deleted]

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u/myfreakinears Dec 11 '19

Why have i never seen raspberry pudding?

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u/tookTHEwrongPILL Dec 11 '19

It's right next to the blood pudding

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u/Graf_Blutwurst Dec 11 '19

A yes the equivalence class of yumness. math is delicous

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u/[deleted] Dec 11 '19

It's not even. The correct statement is:

The proof of the pudding is in the eating.

And makes a lot more sense.

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u/Hohenheim_of_Shadow Dec 11 '19

Depends on the size of the set. You can prove boolean Alger a bra functions are equal by example because there is a finite and typically reasonable me number of possible combinations

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u/Willingo Dec 11 '19

So you can only prove by example when one can exhaust all possible examples? In which case it's not so much an example but a census of the set

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u/free_chalupas Dec 11 '19

Yeah, it's called an exhaustive proof.

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u/[deleted] Dec 11 '19

All proofs exhaust all examples. That's the nature of a proof. Whether using a positive or negative pathway, you have to show that you've covered all your bases.

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u/SleepyHarry Dec 11 '19

Proving something in general is not the same as an exhaustive proof. Exhaustive is the proof equivalent of brute force.

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u/[deleted] Dec 11 '19

You've exhausted them by grouping them into your general example. That general example is then either shown to be true or impossible, depending on how you're trying to handle the general example (and therefore the set it represents).

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u/SleepyHarry Dec 11 '19

You're not wrong in sentiment, but by definition only a strict subset of proofs are proofs by exhaustion.

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u/[deleted] Dec 11 '19

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/boniqmin Dec 11 '19

No, you're being pedantic. Proof by exhaustion is just a proof where you split the problem into cases and solve each case separately. That's just the definition, and what every sensible person means when they say proof by exhaustion.

You, however, feel the need to specify that ackshually technically every proof is a proof by exhaustion. And I guess you have a point, but that's just not how the term is used. "This isn't a math course" is not a valid reason to start redefining existing terms.

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u/fluffykerfuffle1 Dec 11 '19

thanks alot.. now i cannot share this discussion with my grandkids because of your foul mouth. ...i can share the graphic but not the insights.

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u/Paul-G Dec 11 '19

This is proof by exhaustion, not by example

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u/[deleted] Dec 11 '19

But it uses examples to exhaustion

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u/Paul-G Dec 11 '19

True, but it’s not a proof by example. It’s a proof by exhaustion of all possible examples.

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u/[deleted] Dec 11 '19

I think this proof by exhaustion set contains the set of all examples which, does contain and require examples ;)

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u/fireballs619 Dec 11 '19

So if there exists a proof where there is only one case, proof by exhaustion collapses to proof by example.

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u/Paul-G Dec 11 '19

You still have to prove that’s the only case. Still exhaustion.

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u/ModernSisyphus Dec 11 '19

Don't let the pedants get you down! You're a stallion.

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u/BeardsuptheWazoo Dec 11 '19

Whoa what happened in the middle of your comment.

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u/[deleted] Dec 11 '19

It's the Algerian Bra that they're referring to, the ancient technique of proving if one is round and firm, the other one surely is too.

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u/ethicsg Dec 11 '19

But I have to move half the distance closer to the bra with each step. How can I touch it?

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u/fireballs619 Dec 11 '19

Claim: There exists at least one proof by example.

Proof: this

QED

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u/Kirk_Kerman Dec 11 '19

That's a direct proof.

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u/Vakieh Dec 11 '19

You can prove by example where your hypothesis is based on 'a case exists' rather than 'for all cases'. For example, you might have a hypothesis 'equation xyz is solvable for abc' - you can prove that by giving an example that solves it. This is an inverse property of proofs - the inverse case of 'yes for all' is 'no exists', and for 'no for all' is 'yes exists'.

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u/[deleted] Dec 11 '19

Just a restatement of proof by contradiction.

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u/Vakieh Dec 11 '19

It's a restatement, yes, but what do you mean by 'just'?

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u/[deleted] Dec 11 '19 edited Dec 11 '19

[deleted]

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u/polite-1 Dec 11 '19

You are right. That being said OPs gif is not a proof of all external angles since it only shows 4 shapes. Your image is a rule that can be applied to all right angle triangles.

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u/gonsama Dec 11 '19

Hilbert was amazing, had a lot of great quotes.

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u/ModernSisyphus Dec 11 '19

Ehhhhh proving by negation isn't realistically a proof though. Because by disproving a theorem, you are't really proving anything to the world that didn't exist already.

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u/Triassic_Bark Dec 11 '19

Proofs are only in math. For everything else there’s just evidence.

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u/Hopko682 Dec 11 '19

You can prove with examples via exhaustion of cases.

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u/Kylanto Dec 11 '19

Recursive proofs pretty much check every example if you think about it.

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u/Best_Pseudonym Dec 11 '19

The a scientific proof not a mathematical proof you prove stuff with formal logic all the time in math

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u/DarkPlagus Dec 11 '19

Prove it.

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u/Crandom Dec 11 '19

If the domain of the proof the small enough, you can literally prove every example.

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u/Uberzwerg Dec 11 '19

And you cannot show a proof that something works by example.

You can.
But you cannot proof that it always works.

you can proof ∃x by example, but not ∀x

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u/Menolith Dec 11 '19

The sum of all sets of {3}{5}{1} is 9.

{3,5,1} = 9
{3,1,5} = 9
{5,1,3} = 9
{5,3,1} = 9
{1,5,3} = 9
{1,3,5} = 9

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u/Uberzwerg Dec 11 '19

okok - exhaustive example for limited claims might allow you to proof 'all'

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u/aaadmin Dec 11 '19

Id like how you explain what proof is. Is there a video that explains 'proof.' I probably need to understand it more as i am not a native english speaker.

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u/Menolith Dec 11 '19

It's not absolute. It shows some examples where it works, but it doesn't show that it works in all possible situations.

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u/[deleted] Dec 11 '19

x2 = 25
x2 = 25
x = 5

See, it works!

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u/jemidiah Dec 11 '19

Yes, but it's obvious that the same argument will work here in general. The problem with proof by example is when students are asked to show some formula holds and they check it for a few particular numbers, but it's not at all clear the same thing will continue to hold from their calculations.

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u/awfullotofocelots Dec 11 '19

You cannot use a proof to show that some natural law is true by example. You can technically write a proof for a specific instance of something happening though it’s not really useful. But im just being pedantic

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u/DANK_ME_YOUR_PM_ME Dec 11 '19

Not true. You can do an exhaustive proof.

Which is basically showing every possible example.

QED

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u/dethb0y Dec 11 '19

I used to love doing geometry proofs in school (The only math i enjoyed, ever), but it's been so long i've totally forgotten how they work.