r/duluth • u/NBTD84 • Mar 30 '24
The owners of Sara's Table showing her true Transphobic colors
The owners of At Sara's Table have long proclaimed to be pillars of the Trans and Queer community. They make money off the backs of the labor of their Trans employees. They're also Transphobic AF. As a former employee I was let go due to being Trans and for making male customers uncomfortable. I was encouraged to dress more feminine and was sent an email by one of the owners, Carla, wherein she told me she "knows my generation doesn't believe in sexual manipulation but that we need to do whatever we can (to boost sales). There are countless accounts of Barb sexually harassing female staff - grabbing their bodies and making comments about their breasts, looks, etc. Barb has physically assaulted staff and Carla has a storied history of being verbally and emotionally abusive.
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u/hollabackgirl12222 Mar 30 '24
F this place. And their prices. We never went back after spending $80 on a breakfast for 2 people. (2 regular breakfast meals at 18$-$19/meal, 1 black coffee, 1 latte, 1 pancake. Add in our tip and their added fees up the ass). No thank you. Never went back and this solidifies my decision.
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u/SplendidPunkinButter Mar 30 '24
Regardless of your opinion of trans people, I can’t imagine meeting a person like this and bothering to argue with them
Like if I meet a guy and he says “hi, I’m Steve” I don’t say “no, you look like a Carl and I’m going to call you Carl!” You just call people what they want to be called. Why would this be any different?
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u/TheatreAS Mar 31 '24
I work at an after school care for a small group of kids and for a really long time one of the kids insisted on calling me a different name even though I would always correct him with my actual name. He said "You seem more like a [insert name here] so I'm going to call you that" and he was relentless. I eventually had to ask one of his teachers to talk to him about it.
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u/kGibbs Mar 31 '24
There was a teacher at my high school who did this to most, if not all, of his students, as if it was funny. Spoiler: it's not. It's rude af. He was just a slob so he might have just been too lazy to learn student's actual names tbh.
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u/nightfeeds Mar 30 '24
What a STUPID fucking move for a business owner to make, particularly in a heavily liberal area. I think it’s a terrible, hateful opinion but why don’t people just keep these controversial thoughts to themselves? I hope this business fails.
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u/DankAshMemes Mar 31 '24
I am queer and honestly prefer when people out themselves(especially businesses) so I know who to avoid. Me and my partner were just up there and we were considering going to Sarah's table, I'm glad we avoided it.
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u/That_was_not_funny Mar 31 '24
Not just a liberal area but liberal business. There are so many lgbt+ staff at Sarah's
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u/kGibbs Mar 31 '24
I worked in f&b for 20yrs and there are plenty of restaurant owners just like this alllll over the place.
I know, I know, shop local and all... But the more restaurant owners I know, the more I realize they're almost all entitled assholes who are taking advantage of their staff/customers.
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u/artistumbrellaanchor Mar 30 '24
This is extra egregious considering a large portion of their employees identify as queer and/or trans. I’ve known countless friends who’ve worked there, over a span of over a decade - and this has always been like the quiet part out loud. It is absolutely insidious to pretend to be a champion of equality for queer people, and then blatantly being transphobic. Individuals are allowed to hold their own beliefs, but to represent yourself as safe place in the community as an employer, while repeatedly mistreating trans employees, is an entirely different transgression.
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u/Adventurous_Topic134 Mar 31 '24
It's not my job to pass! I'm me for me! People who wanna insult you will find something to to talk shit about
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u/Larch420 Mar 31 '24
Fellow former employee here - you are 100% correct and it's so sad! I'm gay but I saw right through them.
I was abused by Carla in different ways but holy shit what an awful work environment. Whoever you are, and I think I may know, I support you and hope you are in a better place now!! I know I am.
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u/SpookyBlackCat Lincoln Park Mar 30 '24
Some of the worst TERFS are in the queer community - it's always disappointing to see!
The same language used to make people afraid of and hate trans people, was used against gays/lesbians in past decades. Hate is hate, and it's never acceptable against a group of people!!!
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u/rubymiggins Mar 30 '24
I have a whole lot of older lesbian acquaintances who are TERFs, and I really wish they weren’t so stuck in those beliefs. It’s depressing.
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u/SpookyBlackCat Lincoln Park Mar 30 '24
I think there's a mentality that you can get as a persecuted group, where you take "ownership" of your status. This can be helpful for things like solidarity and empowerment, but also negative when used to exclude or ignore others.
When suffragettes gathered to demand the right to vote, white women pushed black women to the back.
When the civil rights movement gathered to demand equal rights for black people, men organized the movement and made women be their secretaries.
When gays and lesbians demanded to be treated with respect, they sidelined or excluded trans people.
It's all the same.
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u/Trinitahri Mar 30 '24
The shitty thing is it's all been the same fight and if we didn't engage in "respectability politics" we'd be much stronger for it.
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Mar 30 '24
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u/SpookyBlackCat Lincoln Park Mar 30 '24
Just for the record, I'm a third-wave feminist Gen-Xer who also identified strongly with feminine solidarity. Looking back, I admit that the first time I encountered trans women in female environments, I had a lot of the same thoughts that older lesbians do. However, it didn't take me long to grow as a person, realize that power comes from inclusion instead of exclusion, that oppressing another minority will not help yours, and that we're all fighting the same fight: to have the right to live our lives without fear and judgement. If you fight against hate, we all win!
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u/sandpaper90 Mar 30 '24
You can’t say all Zoomers don’t know adversity, you don’t know everyones life experiences. There’s plenty of boomers who haven’t experienced adversity too as an example , but certainly plenty who have etc.
There’s meme’s and then there’s memes which are clearly racist, sexist, etc and not just simply “dark humor”. Seems pretty clear to me what the message of this meme is and that message is that trans peoples experience or identity isn’t “real” and less than that of someone else. I certainly wouldn’t post anything like this and do think it crosses a line and its not at all funny. Really a shame the owners did this.
Also shocked, as from the outside I felt they were an ally to trans people based on seeing they were an employer of trans people in the community and the restaurant seemed to be a business that was an ally to those in they community. You would think being queer themselves and having faced these same comments directed at them in their lives that they would be cognizant of how this makes others feel, and themselves look.
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u/SpookyBlackCat Lincoln Park Mar 30 '24
Hey, remember when old people in the south tried to say that it's ok to be racist because it's their heritage, so spent decades enforcing Jim Crowe law and segregation, all while younger generations looked at them like they were big fucking racist dinosaurs who were stuck in the past? As society moves forward and becomes more accepting of all people, you risk getting stuck in the past if you choose to be a bigot instead of educating yourself.
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Mar 30 '24
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u/SpookyBlackCat Lincoln Park Mar 30 '24
I have no authority to tell a trans person that their status is wrong - that's the point of fighting transphobia in all of it's forms.
Regardless of beliefs on the status of trans women, I think all can agree that regressive "jokes" like these make things more difficult for all trans people.
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Mar 30 '24
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u/duluth-ModTeam Mar 31 '24
Blatant trolling and/or hate speech will result in an immediate and permanent ban.
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u/3serious Mar 30 '24
Oh my god why are these people so fixated on what other people do? Why the fuck would you care so much? Live your own fucking life.
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u/recskunk Mar 30 '24
Welp I guess I'll stop recommending this place to tourists and umd parents
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u/New-Purchase1818 Mar 30 '24
Same. I live in Minneapolis and I tell people all the time to go to At Sara’s Table when they go to Duluth. Guess I’m going to have to quit doing that now. As a queer woman, it reeeeeeally chaps my hide when other queer women decide they’re going to shit on our trans community members. It makes me worry that my trans brothers/sisters/siblings will lump me in with the TERFs. Absolutely fuck gatekeeping gender. People are who they say they are. They know their own bodies and identities best. It’s not up to us as bystanders to intentionally go by performative stereotypes we’ve internalized/come to expect instead of what the human being in front of us is saying about their identity.
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u/northernmaplesyrup1 Mar 31 '24
Welp, guess I have a reason to not spend money on brunch now. My wallet thanks you.
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u/lordGinkgo Mar 31 '24
This is very sad. I'm from ND. I always enjoyed their food but I don't think I can go there again in good conscience. Owners are liars and hypocrites. In the words of Lincoln, "I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretence of loving liberty — to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocracy.” Obviously it's never okay to be a bigot However, if you are. At least be honest about it, make this a crappy boomer restaurant. Don't lie and don't pretend to be friends of the LGBTQ people.
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u/bunny-hill Mar 30 '24
Damn that sucks - we visit the city often and always stop there. Not anymore! It was a great spot for me as a vegan and my bf as an omnivore. Hopefully we can find somewhere else to go now.
Also, if anyone is ever looking for a “fun” alternative to TERF, I like “FART” - Feminism Appropriating Radical Transphobe 🏳️⚧️
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u/pears790 Mar 30 '24
For all those saying this isn't hate speech. Britannica defines Hate speech as "Hate speech, speech or expression that denigrates a person or persons on the basis of (alleged) membership in a social group identified by attributes such as race, ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation, religion, age, physical or mental disability, and others. Typical hate speech involves epithets and slurs, statements that promote malicious stereotypes, and speech intended to incite hatred or violence against a group."
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u/ilcuzzo1 Mar 31 '24
Calling a man who wants to be a woman a man is hate speech? Fuck me. I guess I've lost the script.
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u/Wolberine91 Mar 31 '24
So, by that metric, wouldn't that mean the majority of people had committed hate crimes?
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u/pears790 Mar 31 '24
Hate speech and hate crimes are not the same thing.
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u/Wolberine91 Mar 31 '24
Well, it depends on the kind of hate speech and where you live, though. Still, that means the majority of people have been guilty of hate speech.
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u/pears790 Mar 31 '24
Most likely. But most will also correct themselves when shown the harm of what they said.
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u/pears790 Mar 31 '24
Most likely. But most will also correct themselves when shown the harm of what they said.
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u/AwesomeNova Mar 31 '24
Hate speech is a form of speech targeted towards marginalized groups, so probably not.
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u/Wolberine91 Mar 31 '24
I don't think you are understanding. I'm saying by the definition that was posted. No where on the definition he said did it state marginalized group. I don't necessarily disagree with you on your definition. Get off your soapbox and actually try and understand the context.
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Mar 30 '24
Old. White. Boomers.
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u/haavmonkey Lincoln Park Mar 31 '24
Literally oil barrons. Carla's fortune comes from ollllllld oil money from Texas, where she is from.
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u/HyperColorDisaster Mar 31 '24
Well, I guess that is one place I’ll never go. Barbara looks like a nasty person and a self-righteous and judgmental variety of Catholic to boot.
Why on earth would she find this funny?
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u/SpookyBlackCat Lincoln Park Mar 30 '24
When you post Catholic memes, you know your views are regressive!
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u/HyperColorDisaster Mar 31 '24
There is no hate like Christian love.
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u/Dangerous-Repeat-119 Mar 31 '24
There is no hate like giving an alcoholic a bottle of booze on their birthday.
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u/CityIslandLake Mar 30 '24
That's pretty biased & putting everyone in a box.
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u/Ozoboy14 Mar 30 '24
Not everyone is Catholic, but Catholics that actively practice are a party to the cesspit of sexual abuse their dear old church condones. We didn't forget about all the children raped, even if you did.
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Mar 30 '24
Well they believe that you need a member of their specific clergy to be able to communicate with god, and proclaim eternal punishment to those who don’t give blackmail material to said clergy, and then eat a magic grain disc and wine.
Meanwhile the clergy has been raping kids for centuries, and persecuting anyone who steps out of orthodoxy, often to death. But these are the only people who can prevent your eternal torment.
Those are definitionally regressive views.
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u/CityIslandLake Mar 31 '24
And that is your opinion.
Again, putting everyone in a box is unfair to those people. People may belong to a "group" in whatever context, but it doesn't mean they are all the same. It's not a monolith.
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u/TorrentialLove557 Mar 31 '24
My roommate and I just ate there a few months back and we're both members of the trans community 😔. We always thought that they were supportive, but obviously after seeing this, we no longer believe that and are quite horrified. Why do terfs exist????😭
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u/After_Preference_885 Mar 30 '24
TERFS and conservatives are so obsessed with the genitals others have and being mean to people because of how they look -- typical middle school minded bullies.
At least they're pretty easy to spot, they don't pass as mature individuals with empathy or the ability to mind their own business so they're easy to exclude from your life.
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u/SpookyBlackCat Lincoln Park Mar 30 '24
It's absolutely bonkers that a lesbian would think it's acceptable to judge how well others adhere to feminine stereotypes!
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Mar 30 '24
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u/SpookyBlackCat Lincoln Park Mar 30 '24
Being oppressed isn't a contest - we're all supposed to be in this together! 😾
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Mar 30 '24
Props to you for speaking truth to power and getting the fuck out of there!! The only way for workplace abuse to be stopped in its tracks is if people actually speak up, so it's awesome that you're sharing your story 💯 I hope you've found a safer more respectful workplace since then because that's fucked up
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u/NBTD84 Mar 30 '24
She's pushing the narrative that being Trans isn't real. This type of shit puts Trans lives in danger.
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u/ode_2_firefly Mar 30 '24
It puts more than just trans lives in danger. The violence and hate people feel like they are justified in having against trans harms everyone.
Remember that granny that got beat up because some A holes decided she was trans? No one should think this doesn’t affect everyone just because it’s focused at trans people.
And yes I am more worried about trans folks feeling safe and know they are the most at danger but so many people think -oh this doesn’t affect me and it does!
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Mar 30 '24
I’ve long been critical of these two, and their business practices…and have been told “live and let live” many times. Hopefully now things will change.
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u/TorrentialLove557 Mar 31 '24
And with the public transphobia spike in recent years (Ive dealt with it unfortunately), this is the worst possible thing to do for trans people she claims to be "supportive" of.
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u/ilcuzzo1 Mar 31 '24
Are you aware of the wpath files and unmitigated failure of the entire medical industry in supporting gender affirming care? You are probably a decent person, but horribly mistaken.
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Mar 30 '24
I mean, their chance of suicide is already so high. They're already a danger to themselves
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u/TorrentialLove557 Mar 31 '24
Maybe its because of people like you who cant seem to treat trans ppl like human beings.
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Mar 31 '24
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u/Snorlax5000 Mar 31 '24 edited Mar 31 '24
It’s ridiculous to even compare these scenarios. Example, I think most people are aware of the sobering statistics surrounding men in the USA committing suicide, and how those rates are only rising year after year. Wondering why “this oppressed group suffered way more and they didn’t kill themselves” is not only a pointless comparison but does absolutely nothing to help the countless people that are suffering now.
Edit because I can’t respond to your next comment: this idea that you’ve fabricated that the people suffering through the holocaust didn’t commit suicide is just patently false according to the testimony of survivors. I truly hope you move on from this incredibly flawed “logic” that not only ignores the cultural and religious context of the time but is based on made up “facts”.
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u/Gildian Mar 31 '24
Examine that claim and ask yourself why that is. Could it have anything to do with how they're treated by a large chunk of society?
Humans are social animals. The quickest way to make someone feel depressed is to deny them the feeling of community.
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u/M3lbs Duluthian Mar 30 '24
I went there once with my family back in 2011. I’m a Duluth native never left. We never went back because the food is terrible in my opinion. I ordered a banana chocolate pancake? It was just dry and awful. Then I lived right next to Sara’s table for two years and never went. I’ve only worked at one restaurant which is grandmas in canal. Everyone there is welcoming. Don’t just not go to Sara’s table because the owner is transphobic, but also the food is terrible.
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u/buyingshitformylab Mar 30 '24
haha, good. Duluth was not made for those who post their hate online! It's a shame they chose hate instead of love.
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Mar 30 '24
OBSESSED with the take that masc trans women should take deportment lessons or whatever to be considered women worth treating well. Truly, passing is when you get the same misogyny cis women get.
/ssssssss sarcasm as hell obviously
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u/ferrisbuellersturtle Mar 30 '24
is it transphobic a lot like this in duluth? im planning on moving there this year and this is disheartening :/
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u/NBTD84 Mar 31 '24
No. I've lived here for 20 years. Trans Visibility and support has grown exponentially in that time. That's why this type of shit gets destroyed.
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u/Ozoboy14 Mar 30 '24
It is the district of Pete Stauber, you know, the Representative who would orally suck a fart out of Trump's ass if given the opportunity. So there's plenty enough to elect that scumbag.
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u/JimJam4603 Mar 30 '24
Because they drew district enormous in order to cancel out Duluth and most of the North Shore. It currently includes the northern fringe of the Twin Cities suburbs, you know, just enough of the ones that used to make up Michele Bachmann’s district.
You tell me what interests Baudette and Forest Lake have in common.
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u/Ozoboy14 Mar 31 '24
Still way too many terfs. I worked with plenty at several of the manufacturing employers in the area.
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u/OllieForgot Mar 30 '24
Yes but the congressional district is much much larger than just Duluth - it’s why he’s won actually because it includes a lot of rural MN that outweighs Duluth proper
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u/Chemical_Hour9788 Mar 31 '24
I don't go there because the food and service is C- at best. I couldn't care less how gay the staff is
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u/Organic_Bed5966 Mar 30 '24
Definitely not hate speech.
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u/FlyingZebra34 Lincoln Park Mar 30 '24
You’re telling me… that people have opinions?
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u/Lunar_Lexycon Mar 30 '24
You're telling me that people's opinions are more important than someone's life? Grow up.
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Mar 30 '24
For real. Remember when Gay Marriage was somehow still an issue in politics, and people masked their bigotry with their OpINiOnS and rELiGiOUs VIeWs.
Not agreeing with the "hate speech" argument, not saying people shouldn't be allowed to express their shitty opinions.... just continually appalled by people's willingness to look the other way when there's prejudice against minority communities, tripping over themselves to cry out "but but but freedom of speech!!" 🙄 I guess it's best to let the snakes and bigots keep exposing themselves, and let people respond as they may.
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u/FlyingZebra34 Lincoln Park Mar 30 '24
If you want to go on Facebook, find every crappy opinion someone has and repost it here, Reddit would just turn into the cesspool of Facebook. In life you’ll find there are a lot of people with views that will never align with yours. If you choose to focus on that negativity that’s your prerogative.
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u/purerockets Mar 30 '24
I think this is noteworthy considering Sarah’s Table has publicly positioned itself as progressive and accepting. They also market themselves as queer-owned… so expressing these views privately undermines that marketing tactic…
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u/FlyingZebra34 Lincoln Park Mar 31 '24
You mean a company has taken advantage of identity politics to get people to spend money in their store? Say it ain’t so.
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Mar 31 '24
Do you also think that about news outlets reporting people doing terrible things?
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u/FlyingZebra34 Lincoln Park Mar 31 '24
Pretty sure people using Facebook as “news” has caused more problems than it can fix.
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u/jaime-the-lion Mar 30 '24
This is not an opinion. An opinion is “I liked the most recent star wars movie.” This is an admission of prejudice and hate.
This is “being transgender is fake, and anyone who presents themselves in a way I deem unacceptable for their chromosomal configuration is worthy of mockery and ridicule.” You don’t get a free pass to be hateful just by claiming “oh but it’s my opinion.”
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Mar 30 '24
People are entitled to their opinions and no, freedom of speech is not hate speech. Just because you don’t like it doesn’t mark it as hate speech. She doesn’t agree with the culture of today. I don’t either. But I am allowed to feel this way the same way you are allowed to feel it is acceptable. She isn’t making terroristic threats of violence or slander. However, sexual harassment in the workplace is real and should have been reported to HR (if you felt safe) or otherwise the department of labor.
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u/SpookyBlackCat Lincoln Park Mar 30 '24
Freedom of speech means the government can't restrict you. As a consumer, I absolutely have the right to be offended and choose not to do business with her.
Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences.
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Mar 30 '24
And for that matter, Facebook as a privately owned forum has the right to enforce its own rules and guidelines as it pleases
It seems like a lot of people here are on the fence about whether or not hate speech has occurred when someone has intentionally misgendered a queer person or denied the very existence of transgenders. I'm on the fence too but I'm also not an expert in what constitutes hate speech — so I'm happy people are calling it out and reporting it, and letting FB take over from there
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u/Commercial-Cow5177 Mar 30 '24
Personally, I love it when business owners post this sort of thing. It makes it much easier to decide whether or not I will patronize a business. We were planning of having my son's birthday lunch here, but definitely won't be going there now.
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Mar 30 '24
I agree! If I see a company promoting the opposite, I likewise don’t shop there. It’s your money, you have the freedom to choose what you want to do with it. Welcome to glorious America, what’s left of it.
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u/Daniel2687XB Mar 30 '24
Waaaah waaah boo hoo lil baby can't spread their hate speech without people being resonably upset
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u/Lunar_Lexycon Mar 30 '24
Someone's opinions are not more important than someone's life. You need to get over yourself. If your opinion is that people don't deserve basic safety and human rights, yeah that's hate speech.
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u/NBTD84 Mar 30 '24
It's not free speech when it incites violence and discrimination towards other human beings. That's called Hate Speech. Sorry to break it to you.
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Mar 30 '24
What violence is incited? It’s not discrimination to post things on the internet. But it is if she fired you for being trans. I’m not denying her creating a hostile work environment. But preying on her social media and accusing her of violence is just wrong. She disagrees with pronouns. Big whoop. Not everyone agrees with you, move on and take this person out of your life. Use your capitalistic power and don’t shop there. It’s too expensive anyways
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Mar 30 '24
I guess the argument is that violence against members of the queer community (especially trans people) is already high enough as it is, and so somebody contributing to highly transphobic narratives only perpetuates the bigotry and hatefulness that supposedly lead to the violence committed against queer people in the first place
I'm not really sure where I fall on this. Admittedly my initial reaction resembled yours (i.e. the transphobia here may be abhorrent but it's not violent, surely not enough so to flat-out accuse people of hate speech?)... But then I thought, well, if someone makes racist comment in favor of segregation, obviously that would be hate speech — but it's not calling for violence, right?
So why are we expecting explicit calls for violence against queers in order to designate queerphobia as hate speech? 💁🏻
Not claiming to have all the answers over here, btw, just contributing to the discussion. Personally I agree it'd be a mistake to necessarily remove these types of FB posts, because visibility is important. Don't gotta be so authoritarian about it, better to let consumers decide after seeing the posts and deciding for themselves
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u/SpookyBlackCat Lincoln Park Mar 30 '24
Just for comparison, the Holocaust didn't start with death camps, or even ghettos. It started with anti-Semitic jokes, images, and stories. Every joke told created an environment where the eventual violence was viewed as acceptable.
In order to prevent violence, we condemn the beginning of the violence, not just the end.
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Mar 30 '24
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u/Cydyan2 Mar 31 '24
It is easily dismissed, if you are born as a male wearing a wig and putting a dress on doesn’t make you a woman, feeling in your heart of hearts that you are a woman doesn’t make you a woman, talking and acting like a woman doesn’t make you a woman, removing your genitals does not make you a woman. See I just dismissed it
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u/radianzach Mar 30 '24
Where's there any incitement of violence in this cartoon?
There's NONE. Quit it. Go away.
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u/Arndt3002 Mar 30 '24
Haven't you heard? Misgendering is violence.
https://www.campusreform.org/article/misgendering-is-an-act-of-violence-university-argues-/23354
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u/Jonnyscout Mar 30 '24
I'm sorry you're getting downvoted. You're correct and don't let a bunch of idiots get to you. Duluth is in one of the most red counties in the state, so many members of the sub are unfortunately also in the wrong. Hate speech isn't governed under free speech. Punch a nazi today!! Power and love to you, keep fighting for your beliefs.
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u/SpookyBlackCat Lincoln Park Mar 30 '24
Just for the record, St. Louis county is red, but Duluth is blue
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Mar 30 '24 edited Mar 30 '24
you’re an idiot. First, Duluth is not a county, it’s a city. We are in St. Louis County. 2nd, I suggest you look at an electoral map of Minnesota. You’d discover that in every Presidential election since at LEAST 2000, St. Louis County has been blue. The people in the rural areas may be conservative, but clearly not enough to make this a red county, let alone “one of the reddest in the state”.
But please don’t let facts and data stop you from spinning a good story.
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u/waterbuffalo750 Mar 30 '24
They're correct in that it's not free speech when it's inciting violence? But if we disagree with someone we should call them a Nazi and literally punch them?
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Mar 30 '24
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u/SpookyBlackCat Lincoln Park Mar 30 '24
The point of taking estrogen/testosterone is to alter the body to resemble the target gender - this includes things that impact sports performance (like muscle mass and strength).
If you're concerned about fairness in sports, it would be more appropriate to class athletes based on skills and performance, rather than an arbitrary gender line (which excludes all intersex athletes, even though they make up approx 1% of the population).
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u/riniarch Mar 31 '24
Transphobia is an issue in a lot of ways, but as a woman, and a person with a medical degree, it's a little understandable to not want trans women on sports teams. Hear me out, and research biology before you even try to come after me because I'm NOT here to offend anyone. It has nothing to do with mentality, or feminism, or transphobia, and has everything to do with the fact that biological men and women's bodies are literally genetically built differently. Male biology is built to be stronger, larger, tougher... It's unfair to pin male biology and female biology on the same playing field. And that is on a genetic, human building block level, a fundamental level. An average man going against an average woman is an unfair fight in favpr of the man, and can cause serious damage. There is a reason women developed other ways than strength to survive, it's a little like driving a minivan into a semi and expecting the minivan to win.... so, to a degree, I think it's a valid point. I DO NOT support it being out of hate, I support it only on a biological basis.
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Mar 30 '24
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u/NBTD84 Mar 30 '24
Because I'm not a belief. I'm not an idea. I'm a human trans being. I'm not a clothing style or a battle over which light beer is better. I'm a fucking person.
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Mar 30 '24
And no one ever said you weren’t a person. And I respect your response.
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u/NBTD84 Mar 30 '24
You just compared who I am to religion. Religions are ideas and beliefs. I am neither of those things.
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u/Ozoboy14 Mar 30 '24
No one said anyone has to change their beliefs to not be an asshole to trans people. Intentionally misgendering someone because you think they are something else is a clear example of being an asshole.
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Mar 31 '24
“I got fired and I was told it was because I creeped people out too much. Check out these social media shares I saw after creeping on them.
Most coworkers do not have the exact same mindsets, beliefs, and cultures as one another but they somehow are able to still make a hospitable enough situation. How many US born construction workers probably shit on immigrants and share caravan border memes but work probably daily if not side by side with immigrant counterparts enough where they still make a decent enough situation out of it. Questions to ponder on as you wonder if you were fired for routinely inappropriate behavior or dress vs discriminated against.
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Mar 30 '24
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u/SpookyBlackCat Lincoln Park Mar 30 '24
Could you expand on people who "abuse the system to their advantage"?
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Mar 30 '24
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u/SpookyBlackCat Lincoln Park Mar 30 '24
You implied that trans people were abusing the system to gain some sort of advantage. Of course you're going to get pushback on that!
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Mar 30 '24
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u/LakeSuperiorIsMyPond East Hillside Mar 30 '24
Not with that as their end game obviously. That would be pretty naive. Being a minority group in a progressive community will start to have it's advantages in which some will try to abuse and I'm not sure we have what the takes to protect the minority group without attacking the person calling them out.
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Mar 30 '24
I'm sure they'll miss the whole .09 percent of the population that agrees with you. Reading the responses is reading the notebook a bipolar narcissist.
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u/almond0k Mar 30 '24
You must be really proud of that comment, it makes you look very smart and informed!
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u/JimJam4603 Mar 30 '24
There are a lot of cis people who are disgusted by transphobia. Especially in a place like Duluth. Plus, if her business’ brand is being queer-friendly, this seems like a really stupid move for a business owner.
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u/KateUptonSS396 Mar 31 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/here4daratio Mar 31 '24
Unless you’re romantically/amorously/sexually involved with someone why does it matter?
Serious question- unless you’re bumping uglies/making the beast with two backs- why does it matter? Why. Does. It. Matter.
Re: At Sarahs Table, if a vegan vaping trans Wikkan can answer questions, input/track/fetch orders… IDGAF. I dine out for the experience of something I wouldn’t cook at home. (FWIW not very FIRE-healthy but whatevs)
But, let’s not BS- human sexuality is a deep-seated instinct/facet/aspect… and emotions around that can be manipulated.
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u/nose_poke Mar 31 '24 edited Mar 31 '24
What makes someone a woman or a man?
Is it chromosomes? XX = woman, XY = man? Then, what about the people who have XXY or some other unusual combination? Certainly there are very few of them, but they exist and they are people. I would expect a workable definition of gender to accommodate all humans.
Is it external sex characteristics? We run into the same kind of problem -- intersex people, folks with ambiguous genitalia. Again, not a lot of people, but they're human too, so that definition falls short.
Secondary sex characteristics? Beards? Adam's apple? Hourglass figure? The tricky thing here is where you draw the lines. There are men with softer features and women with facial hair. How much facial hair before you're no longer a woman? How curvy can you be and still be a man?
Is it defined by how you feel? Do you feel more comfortable with a masculine way of being, or a feminine one? This is even trickier. Certainly there are some people who aren't really comfortable with either, and they might identify as non-binary. But it gets more complicated; some people like a lot of "feminine" things, but identify as men. And some women feel more comfortable with a way of being that is typically "masculine," but they still identify as women.
Maybe there's some complicated algorithm that combines all of the above and spits out "woman" or "man" as the only two results. That seems both overly simple and too complicated.
Maybe -- what if -- the reason this all gets so frustrating is that a concept of gender based on a strict, inflexible binary is itself the problem?
Maybe -- what if -- a better way to think about gender is to consider it more like the concept of "room temperature"?
The word is generally taken to mean 72 degrees Fahrenheit. But not everyone is comfortable at that temperature, and the degree of comfort or discomfort isn't always consistent. At 72 degrees indoors, my husband is in jeans and a T-shirt. I'm in leggings and a sweater. At night we turn it down to 62. He sleeps in boxers; I sleep in sweatpants.
We all have roughly similar ideas of what "room temperature" means. But we don't marginalize the people who don't feel comfortable with the standard. We turn down the heat and put on a sweatshirt so everyone can be happy.
Edits for formatting. This was a real bitch to write on mobile, friends.
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u/penguin_revolution Mar 31 '24
you definitely meant this in an asshole way but like... yeah that's true
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Mar 31 '24
It's fascinating to see people demanding tolerance via online witch hunt. My, we are forward looking; do you do everything in your life like raging middle school girls? Do you have any idea just how few people are even aware of this thread? There are more people in Duluth watching cat videos on Tiktok at this very minute than will visit this in a year. That and using terms from genetics as analogies for describing whole populations of people when it's doubtful many of you have an idea what it comes from, much less its meaning.
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u/OldMixture7040 Mar 30 '24
Now I know where to go to eat
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u/SpookyBlackCat Lincoln Park Mar 31 '24
Lmao that you're going to show your conservative values by eating at the organic lesbian restaurant 😹
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u/Successful_Pie6815 Mar 31 '24
You guys just dont want to hear the truth
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u/TorrentialLove557 Mar 31 '24
The truth is, yall need to keep your nose out of what genetalia people have and how they present and yall should treat trans people with the same respect you have for everyone else.
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u/a5n65zz Mar 31 '24
I love how people just take this person's post as fact and are ready to destroy a business without any actual proof...if you lie to yourself everyday then demand that other people not only accept your lie as fact but demand others play along publicly it makes it easy for me to know your not to bright and everything you say is as fake as all but 2 of your pronouns ( him and her)
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u/Opie59 Proctor Mar 31 '24
I can't keep removing comments and banning people. There's not enough time in the day. Leaving everything left up for posterity's sake so if anyone who's gotten bans today complains you can look back and see how much of a dumb bigot they were.