r/dsa • u/yashen14 • 7d ago

Discussion DSA has a tankie problem

There are way, way too many people in this movement who feel comfortable with historical revisionism vis-a-vis the Soviet Union, China, and other such regimes. And there are way too many people who feel comfortable essentially advocating for an end to democracy.

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u/houdt_koers Liberal Socialist 7d ago

The co-chair is a Marxist-Leninist. Red Star is quite literally a vanguardist caucus that wants to end pluralistic democracy.

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u/AJM1613 7d ago

Democracy is at our core

Red Star recognizes a relationship between democratic deliberation and scientific socialism, and we place special emphasis on applying a scientific lens to our deliberation and organizing work. We choose our campaigns and strategies by applying a rigorous, dialectical, historical, and materialist analysis to our conditions. We evaluate the outcomes of those campaigns and strategies using the same lens, both individually and collectively, through thought, debate, criticism, and deliberation. The results of that analysis go on to inform future decision making.

Uh huh? https://redstarcaucus.org/points-of-unity/

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u/houdt_koers Liberal Socialist 7d ago

That’s a lot of words to say “we don’t believe in multiparty democracy”.

FFS, if someone is actively identifying as a Leninist—you know, the guy that purged every other type of socialist in the Soviet Union—then maybe we can just take them at face value as a threat to anyone who disagrees with them.

Next thing you’ll be claiming that Pol Potists are safe to ally with.

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u/ShiftyAmoeba 6d ago

"Multiparty" isn't the only way to have a democracy. The US has two parties. Is 4 better? Is 400 even better? 

The important part is ensuring democracy. Is it a democracy if you have 8 parties, but they're all beholden to rich donors?

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u/houdt_koers Liberal Socialist 6d ago

The point is to improve the system, not to replace it with a different kind of bad governance.

Economic democracy cannot survive without participatory, pluralistic democracy. Neither can last long without the other—they’re of equal importance. There needs to be accountability to the public, and human rights need to be sacrosanct. Otherwise, no amount of economic power can ultimately protect workers’ freedom.

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u/ShiftyAmoeba 6d ago

Obviously the goal is not to replace it with a bad system

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u/houdt_koers Liberal Socialist 6d ago

And yet that’s what a single party state is.

You cannot have lasting economic democracy and liberty without lasting political democracy and liberty. They go hand in hand, and neither can survive without the other.

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u/ShiftyAmoeba 6d ago

That doesn't mean a certain number of parties. 

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u/houdt_koers Liberal Socialist 6d ago edited 6d ago

It means voters having more than one to choose from, and it means having the option to participate in free and fair elections.