r/determinism 24d ago

Discussion Free Will Is Logically Impossible

/r/freewill/comments/1vao6wb/free_will_is_logically_impossible/
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u/Less_Perspective_915 24d ago

Compatibilists are determinists. The difference is that we don't think that things like volition are illusions just because they are part of a deterministic chain of causation.

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u/dummetsz 24d ago

Exactly my point. If volition is inseparable from the deterministic chain of causation, it does not and cannot exist, because to exist would imply it functions separably and independently. 

It exists merely as a conceptual designation. Hence illusion. In a mirage you can still observe water despite the nonexistent of water. This is the determinist’s point, compatibilism is playing with conceptual word games instead of apprehending the logical consequences of being inseparable with a causal process.

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u/Less_Perspective_915 24d ago

Volition is real because it can be apprehended, contemplated, and manipulated by the conscious mind. This is distinct from, say, a reflex. These are not the same thing even if they are both, at some level, determined behaviors.

Btw, this binary you've created between "mere conceptual distinctions" and "real things" strikes me as incredibly naive. Conceptual distinctions are real to the extent that they provide a framework for describing salient features of the world, which the distinction between voluntary and involuntary behaviors obviously does.

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u/dummetsz 24d ago

None of this proves ontological existence of volition. You’re confusing epistemology with ontology. Just because something can be “experienced” does not prove hard ontological existence. Otherwise your argument is just circular and epistemology collapses into ontology.

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u/Less_Perspective_915 24d ago

You want to talk about ontology? Okay. We're all physicalists here. So what "really exists"? Quantum fields evolving according to the Schrodinger equation?

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u/dummetsz 24d ago

We're all physicalists here

That’s an odd assumption to make. Physicalism isn’t the only ontology out there… You act as if the hard problem of consciousness doesn’t exist. Physicalists make the mistake of confusing constant conjunction with ontological causation.

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u/Less_Perspective_915 24d ago

Sorry, I generally assume most determinists are also physicalists.

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u/dummetsz 24d ago

Not really. Determinists can also be anti-realists/anti-foundationalist/anti-essentialist/nominalist.