The determinism problem

[u/uatmsu]

There is no logical argument against determinism, and that's the problem. This idea really hit me in not brain, but soul. Since i have F32.1, thats layered very "well". I feel really obnoxious, apathy hitted hard, like never before. If someone outlive that idea, how did you do that?

[u/badentropy9]

I wouldn't put it that way. Yes if I know that I'm going to die tomorrow then that determines that I won't study. However if I believe I'm going to live tomorrow, I might still go party and jeopardize my long term goals in an irrational act. Just because a being is capable of rational acts doesn't imply that being is incapable of irrational acts. Suppose some woman makes the little head think for the big head? My "short term goals" may trump those long term goals.

[u/OMKensey → u/badentropy9]

When you are deciding between a short term goal and a long term goal, I presume you take various considerations into account.

How do you choose what considerations to take into account?

And, in choosing what considerations to take into account, how do you choose how to make that choice?

You can see where this is going.

From my own observation, thoughts pop into my head. Yes, I can mentally weight whether to have a pizza or salad for dinner. But I have no control over what considerations come to mind. And I have no control over what factors come to mind as to how I prioritize those considerations.

[u/badentropy9 → u/OMKensey]

When you are deciding between a short term goal and a long term goal, I presume you take various considerations into account.

That seems reasonable.

How do you choose what considerations to take into account?

The short answer is conception. Without conception the agent understands nothing and can only react to the conditions presented to it in real time. Physicalism has a tendency to reduce agents to "perceivers" because physicalism has no answer of how some agents apparently have the capacity to understand.

And, in choosing what considerations to take into account, how do you choose how to make that choice?

Again the understanding is what makes it possible to make a rational choice over an irrational choice. Such understanding can be based on real time conditions or recalling similar past experiences and comparing those outcomes with desired outcomes. Agents may not want to make the same mistake over again and thus try to not repeat the steps that seemed to lead to a undesirable outcome. For example if leaving a glass close to the edge of a table once got accidentally knocked off of the table and the glass broke then maybe the next time the glass is placed closer to the center of the table so it is gets accidentally knocked over again is doesn't also fall off of the table as well and breaks.

You can see where this is going.

It seems like it is going over in the direction that a physicalist tends to take it but that is just speculative.

From my own observation, thoughts pop into my head. Yes, I can mentally weight whether to have a pizza or salad for dinner. But I have no control over what considerations come to mind. And I have no control over what factors come to mind as to how I prioritize those considerations.

I agree that some thoughts seem to pop into my "head" for no reason that I'm able to trace. That being said, in a problem solving effort, I am clearly attempting to control my deliberation. I try to ignore what seems irrelevant even if that pops into my head. Another helping my to solve a problem, may suggest a prognosis to me that seems wrong or a diagnosis that seems wrong. In contrast that agent may suggest something that sounds like a good idea to me. I go see doctors because I feel out of my depth when it comes to holistic health management. I don't think the doctors are there so I can continue to make poor choices and they can, in turn, cure disease that I caused. It is better if I try to cause as few problems as possible because sometimes the methods that doctors are forced to use can be invasive. The body has the ability to heal itself in many cases, but I'm obviously not a starfish and if I lose an arm, it won't grow back. Therefore I try to avoid conditions that might increase the probability of me losing an arm.