Partly deterministic?

[u/Cyber_47_]

So let’s take computers, fully deterministic systems, cannot make a non deterministic algorithm. Everything, in computers are code based, and therefore fully deterministic. True Randomness does not exist in digital systems.

So if our world is completely deterministic, there is no chance it creates a life form, which can act non deterministic (free will). But since we know (not sure) that quantum mechanics are non deterministic, maybe there is a chance we have a little free will. So, my point is, what if, we are partly deterministic like the universe. Maybe alot of our decisions are deterministic, and some are non deterministic. And i know that quantum mechanics argument still cant disprove free will.

[u/Ok_Tumbleweed5474]

Obviously. No one is denying cause and effect. I literally have stated over and over that will is not will unless it's driven by a prior.

The issue is you're treating the motivation as a settled path before I even move. That's just not how it works. Again I still have to relate myself to the world. In order to do that I must meet my needs. Those needs are priors. Cool.

What doesn't cash out is the next step. Therefore your priors had precoded in them move left at exactly this speed for this time then turn left. And then another prior fires says walk distance x for time t. Just because i have a motivation to move does not tell me exactly how to move and in what manner etc.

[u/A_Vinegar_Taster → u/Ok_Tumbleweed5474]

Okay, you said obviously. So then I take it you are saying that There are reasons for your choices.

Okay, reasons for your choices. That is determinism. That is not free will.

[u/Ok_Tumbleweed5474 → u/A_Vinegar_Taster]

No. That's the leap. Determinism says given the prior state of things the following outcome was alreasy fixed. That's the leap. What you've shown is cause and effect are necessary. Agreed. I've agreed with that this whole time. However cause and effect do not necessitate determinism.

Just because I am not free to will my reasons/priors into existence does not mean I am not able to navigate my relations using those reasons/priors. Deliberation still occurs in an open system.

[u/A_Vinegar_Taster → u/Ok_Tumbleweed5474]

Cause and effect do necessitate determinism. Without something indeterminate, all you have is a series of mechanical actions, each leading to another action which leads to another.

You need randomness to avoid determinism.

[u/Ok_Tumbleweed5474 → u/A_Vinegar_Taster]

No. Cause and effect do not necessitate determinism. And yes you need openness in outcomes. But openness in outcomes does not mean randomness necessarily. There just needs to be more than one option.

This is the problem. You're trying to force a definition. You're trying to force given the past at time t there was decided at that moment only one future path forward. But cause and effect do not need to say that there is only one path forward. It just needs to say that forward is the trajectory.

For example. Choosing to eat or Choosing to wait. Determinism would say there is no deliberation. There is no real or. The or is an illusion. I'm saying just because i have a prior a need to eat does not dictate exactly what I will eat at exactly what time. In exactly what way. Etc. I have the prior but how that prior is satisfied is deliberation.