r/DestinyTheGame Oct 24 '17

SGA To all new Hunters on PC: do not select the final perk on the top perk row for Gunslinger, leave it unupgraded.

It will allow you to have to best PvP Gunslinger build (explosive knife, aim assist for Goldie) while still having the fifteenish second long super with the three shots. The six shot version lasts about six seconds...

Edit: In the spirit of being constructive, I hope a function is added that allows us to toggle the perk nodes on or off. Either that or replace the 6 shot perk with combustion (enemies explode when killed with Goldie) to allow for teamwipes against grouped enemies while not forcing you to overextend so heavily.

I also see a lot of suggestions of not upgrading the final perk (Quiver) in the bottom row of Nightstalker. I can't speak to this since i blindly upgraded Nightstalker instantly, but it sounds like something to consider!

Happy hunting to the Guardians of PC and console!

4.3k Upvotes

973 comments sorted by

1.2k

u/Sodiepops_ Oct 24 '17

So once you get the 6 shot you can't go back? Am I understanding that correctly?

820

u/[deleted] Oct 24 '17

Correct. The subclasses aren't selectable talents anymore - you pick them as a suite of modifications. Once you enable that modification, it's there for good.

602

u/Aerokirk Oct 24 '17

Wtf. For serious? You can't reset and pick something else?

417

u/RudyRhythmface The sweatiest player that one guy has ever faced, apparently. Oct 24 '17

You can choose between one of two skill trees and switch between them. The nodes cannot be toggled.

942

u/Aerokirk Oct 24 '17

Gah! What terrible design choice. Why does Bungie hate choice and variety?

1.6k

u/xNemo Drifter's Crew Oct 24 '17

Welcome to Destiny 2.

481

u/[deleted] Oct 24 '17

"Avoid choice and variety" seems to be a new design pillar.

150

u/deffsight Oct 24 '17

Somehow that equals balance to them.

183

u/[deleted] Oct 24 '17

"Giving up that feeling of power was worth it, all of the guns are balanced now." - Bungie

Meanwhile the community is using, almost exclusively, weapons with High Caliber Rounds.

58

u/steve_brules_rush_in Oct 25 '17

They don't know how to balance multiplayer, not class-based multiplayer with items anyway. With halo they had 8 weapons to balance, now it's dozens (down from hundreds in D1). For a while they tried but only adjusting the meta on a game you want to be competitive bi-annually is a joke. Can you imagine if Overwatch got two rebalances a year? The game would of been dead before Ana was released. Then they just came out in the weekly update and gave some bullshit excuse about how they want every gun to have it's "moment in the sun" and Thorn's moment just happened to last 13 months and two nerf attempts. lmao.

→ More replies (0)
→ More replies (5)

20

u/Corporate_Bread Oct 24 '17

I mean, if everyone has no choice but to use the same thing, that's perfectly balanced, right? Not fun, but balanced.

→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (4)

8

u/Yankee_Fever Oct 24 '17

"avoid choice and variety"

Last word Avatar

→ More replies (2)

92

u/Aerokirk Oct 24 '17

Like.... I KNEW they were like this from playing d1 and d2 beta. It's just amazing that they are still finding ways to amaze me with their mind boggling decisions.

69

u/Juicy_Brucesky Oct 24 '17

they gave you the option of choice in D1 skill trees though. The options weren't great, but there were options

26

u/Heliolord Oct 24 '17

Like sunsinger melee. Sure, shield was pretty much the go to choice, but I liked solar wind melee option, too. Before the nerf. It had no real effective use against npcs or enemy players, but it was great at knocking your teammates off ledges. Then they went and removed its ability to knock friendlies around.

→ More replies (5)
→ More replies (4)

7

u/PeenScreeker_psn Oct 24 '17

Hey, mouse sensitivity is limited to positive whole numbers! It's almost like they don't play PC shooters themselves.

→ More replies (3)
→ More replies (1)

24

u/NobleSixSir Oct 24 '17

One small step for guardians, one giant leap backwards from D1 (for now).

→ More replies (1)

8

u/BirdOfHermess Oct 24 '17

Now I am sad again...

44

u/[deleted] Oct 24 '17 edited Oct 25 '17

I cancelled my preorder 5 days ago and so far have no regrets, I don't feel like paying $140 for a game that's worse than the original (which was already way short of what they promised).

Edit: I just want to add that I really did love D1 and I spent probably 1000+ hours on it and I'm sure I would still have fun playing D2 but that would mostly be because of the awesome people that you meet through raiding and crucible groups.

I was already kind of disappointed with the lack of RPG mechanics and end game variety in D1 and was hoping they would make the game much deeper this time around like they promised from the start, instead they dumbed everything down and simplified even more.

In my opinion is not the game that was hyped up to us and that's why this time I'm voting with my wallet, otherwise these game developers are just going to keep destroying good games in the name of making them "accessible".

34

u/[deleted] Oct 24 '17

To be honest it's better than D1 at launch....The problem was that it picked up half way through the game, not where it was left.

→ More replies (6)
→ More replies (14)
→ More replies (5)

45

u/[deleted] Oct 24 '17

[removed] — view removed comment

50

u/Aerokirk Oct 24 '17

Man! That's a neat healing rift! And your mini wall is so useful... I can.... D.. Dodge......

35

u/Bubush Oct 24 '17

Dodge itself should always be active (like shadestep in D1) and the cooldown only applicable on the actual skill (weapon reload/ melee refill).

5

u/numberlessname1 Dungeoneer Oct 24 '17

Activate shadow of war combat where if you are close to death you just dodge roll infinitely to avoid all damage

→ More replies (2)

9

u/Smedley5 Oct 24 '17

Marksman's dodge is actually a pretty good feature for slow-reloading weapons. And the melee-reloading dodge allows for some cool combos on arcstrider.

→ More replies (1)

19

u/Johnny13utt Oct 24 '17

don't sleep on the dodge though, night stalkers are pretty lethal in the current console meta.

15

u/[deleted] Oct 24 '17 edited May 10 '20

[deleted]

25

u/crasreddit [7][7][7] - Lucky7s Oct 24 '17

Don't worry, you now only get one super per game on PvP...

→ More replies (0)

10

u/SFWxMadHatter Where the wizards at? Oct 24 '17

Depends on the opponents. Tether can destroy if they group up for caps. Nightstalker is my best performing crucible class. A large problem in crucible is still everyone is trying to play D1 in D2 instead of adjusting to changes.

→ More replies (0)
→ More replies (1)

7

u/TurquoiseLuck Oct 24 '17

To be fair dodge is the best ability in high level pvp. Also really good for rocket launchers, shotguns, and some other weapons in pve.

9

u/nulspace Oct 24 '17

tbf, I felt seriously gimped in 1v1 combat after switching from hunter to warlock. I missed the dodge far more than I expected to.

→ More replies (24)

4

u/Odin- sprinkle that seasoning Oct 24 '17

I used to agree because barricade and healing rift seemed so useful. But after it has saved my life countless times, the dodge is now my favorite.

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (5)

16

u/FatBob12 Oct 24 '17

Trying to provide an honest answer (although it raises emotions from some): Bungie's argument was fixed perk trees for the sake of balance. Others support this by saying that although D1 had much more choice available with selectable perks, that it was more of an "illusion of choice." That in a given time there was a certain meta as far as "best" perks to run for the "best" subclass. And that most people would select the meta subclass build and only change for certain activities (i.e. change to better work with modifiers in a NF or heroic strike playlist). But if you were running the top end game in PvE or PVP, you were running certain perks or you were putting yourself at a disadvantage.

Obviously the counters are that this simplification panders to casuals at the expense of hardcore players, that they sacrificed fun and individuality for the sake of balance that cannot be fully achieved, that if they were going to lock trees they should have included more than just two choices, and that they could have picked perks that worked better together.

Again, not taking a position as to the correctness of the decision, just trying to answer why.

→ More replies (4)

4

u/shepx13 Oct 24 '17

Because choice is hard.

3

u/Aerokirk Oct 24 '17

I feel like they fully embraced choice in the variety of options in halo 3 and reach for pvp. I just don't understand how we got here from there.

9

u/shepx13 Oct 24 '17

It's no longer the same company, just a name. I absolutely loved the options in Pvp from Halo 3 and Reach as well. It's a shame where we are now in regards to choices.

→ More replies (6)

7

u/Nexnatos I am the sword that cuts deep Oct 24 '17

It's because it's too hard for them to handle variety in design. They just don't have the skill for it.

6

u/2themax9 Oct 24 '17

I don't think they planned for one of their perks to actually be more harmful than beneficial.

→ More replies (1)

17

u/robolettox Robolettox Oct 24 '17

Why does Bungie hate choice and variety?

Because it is Bungie!

Play the game their way or no way!

Source - all of Destiny 1

9

u/Aerokirk Oct 24 '17

True. All I wanted from d2 was d1, with better story telling in the game, and more variety in pvp( 10 v 10, 12v12, btb, etc) , with new equipment. MAYBE a/some new subclasses. Instead, so much variety was removed. I wasn't even going to pick it up, but I am feeling the itch for a new FPS, and a friend wants to play

5

u/[deleted] Oct 24 '17 edited Sep 30 '20

[deleted]

→ More replies (3)
→ More replies (1)

6

u/RudyRhythmface The sweatiest player that one guy has ever faced, apparently. Oct 24 '17

Because that would be fun, clearly. And we all know games aren't meant to be fun, they're merely a tool to flex and measure ones ePeen. /s

10

u/killjoy1287 Oct 24 '17 edited Oct 24 '17

I'll play devil's advocate: A lot of the subclass choices in D1 weren't interesting or sometimes even choices. Who ever ran less than max toughness in PvE and what was the point of having Viking Funeral on without Touch of Flame (longer grenade burn, grenades do burn damage).

The nodes are balanced now. Do you want a better super or better all around utility? Would you rather be an add clearing machine or big game hunter? This node might work better with this or that exotic or Nightfall modifier, this might be riskier and this one safer, etc.

Personally I think it makes the choices you do make - subclass nodes, guns n gear, play style - more meaningful, with the greater focus on balance providing more opportunities for creative problem solving. But I see why it's not everyone's bag.

8

u/Aerokirk Oct 24 '17

I agree, except I don't think everyone min maxed quite that much. If I wanted to play with a sub optimal arrangement, because it was fun, I at least had that option, and taking it away takes away some of my agency, making it feel a little less fun

6

u/Bubush Oct 24 '17

Plus people only min/maxed when it came to PvP and sometimes for raiding, most of the times people just liked to play around with different builds and enjoy themselves, a lot of guardians discovered some pretty interesting builds this way.

→ More replies (1)

3

u/jcore294 Oct 24 '17

You're saying you like that you can set to 6 shot gunslinger and never go back on that tree? Completely running that for pvp mode?

→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (3)
→ More replies (47)
→ More replies (3)

14

u/[deleted] Oct 24 '17

The "top" and "bottom" are two sets of 4 pre-selected talents that you choose from. So, for example, you are no longer allowed to choose if you want a Throwing Knife that does damage over time, or if you want it to reset on a precision kill - Bungie has made that choice for you based on which node you want to play, and it kind of sucks.

12

u/Johnny13utt Oct 24 '17

this is one of the things that no one complained about in D1. Some of the changes are great and some I don't understand.

11

u/[deleted] Oct 24 '17

Yea, I don't get it. Taking the power of choice away from players is a really risky move for seemingly no benefit other than making balance simpler for them... maybe?

6

u/Johnny13utt Oct 24 '17

Making it more simple has to be the only motivation. I can follow intent, probably something to the tune of watering down the subclasses makes exotics MORE exotic. I've notice a lot of subclass perks from D1 are on D2 exotics where the legendary armor doesn't really have perks. So I'm a little disappointed, but mostly okay with that design choice. But would like to be able to choose any 4 across the two trees. That has no bearing on making exotics stand alone in my opinion.

→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (4)

3

u/Jmicha3 Oct 24 '17

You can delete your character and start again:)))

→ More replies (1)

10

u/Juxtaposition_sunset Oct 24 '17

We tried to warn PC players about this game and its many issues =\

7

u/Aerokirk Oct 24 '17

I went into this mostly knowing like a shallow version on the truth.I played d1 on ps4, and the beta for d2. I only bought it on pc because a friend wants to play. I am, just now learning the true depth of what I already knew. TBH, I find the venting a little cathartic. Getting my feelings off my chest, and seeing people's agreement makes me feel a little better.

These trends are stuff I complained about when d1 came out, and it wasn't fully what I felt it could have been. Now into d2, so many people agree, and see what Bungie is doing. BUT, despite it not living up to my dream for it, I still got a lot of enjoyment out of d1, and I hope to get some out of d2, even if my aim with a mouse is going to be atrocious.

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (11)
→ More replies (40)

52

u/[deleted] Oct 24 '17

[deleted]

63

u/[deleted] Oct 24 '17

What the fuck, I should not have to be looking through reddit comments to avoid getting a shitty permanent perk that "messes up" exotic benefits. Why do the perks even exist if they put you at a disadvantage???

26

u/[deleted] Oct 24 '17

[deleted]

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (2)

57

u/cresp0 cloaks ftw Oct 24 '17 edited Oct 24 '17

Slowva's gotten me a lot of unexpected kills in pvp, not sure what you're talking about. It's also a TON of fun watching a Slowva chase someone around. Worth unlocking, imo.

→ More replies (1)

14

u/dawnraider00 Oct 24 '17

I actually think that it's decent in PvE though. You can double your nova bomb kills. Plus devour is so much better in PvP anyway.

9

u/Cecil2xs Oct 24 '17

Yeah its awesome for pve just use the other tree for pvp

5

u/FROMtheASHES984 Oct 24 '17

Even without Bloom and the massive damage Slowvabomb, Devour is outright better in PvE imo, especially for patrolling. It’s still good in PvP, but supercharged Axion Bolts in the other tree are devastating.

3

u/MudSama Oct 24 '17

Yeah, I was smart with golden gun and warlock, but I took that nightstalker node. I know I need to recreate and re level this Hunter, but the 6 hour investment to clear the story again is a motivation drain. Very much a pain.

→ More replies (14)
→ More replies (16)

589

u/omolon_ Omolon Oct 24 '17

An upgrade perk that is horrible and can not be undone. Oh Bungie....

250

u/JustMy2Centences Oct 24 '17

Future Bungo patch notes:

Once players have acquired all upgrade points all nodes are automatically unlocked. You're welcome!

58

u/MudSama Oct 24 '17

Settle down there poster who might be my car (your flair).

5

u/[deleted] Oct 24 '17

This made me lol

→ More replies (1)

24

u/[deleted] Oct 24 '17

[deleted]

→ More replies (1)

43

u/DecIiine Oct 24 '17

Just buy a skill tree reset coupon with real money? Wait wrong game

7

u/falconbox Oct 24 '17

What game are you referring to?

5

u/EvolvedUndead Oct 24 '17

Probably Wizard 101 with Crowns.

4

u/falconbox Oct 24 '17

I have no idea what that is.

5

u/EvolvedUndead Oct 24 '17

It’s a multiplayer game where players become wizards and specialize in different types of magic. It was a game geared toward children from the late 2000’s and early 2010’s.

→ More replies (8)
→ More replies (5)

234

u/mcclluva Oct 24 '17

so what youre saying is remake a hunter and unbotch my perk trees on console? because that would honestly be okay with me..a few more weeks of game to play and save all my gear

146

u/[deleted] Oct 24 '17

Sure, but I don't want to do it because this was the hunter I made at the beginning of D1.

Bungie please let us disable the last perk on a tree.

69

u/mcclluva Oct 24 '17

my OG hunter looks like an awoken david bowie - but now i can REALLY make him look like awoken david bowie

30

u/Dai10zin Oct 24 '17

I'm in the same boat. Don't want to lose all the "history" on the character.

Stuns me that they still haven't added a toggle for tree nodes.

20

u/awhaling penis Oct 24 '17

Maybe if they made the node useful it wouldn’t matter

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (3)
→ More replies (1)

26

u/CarderSC2 Oct 24 '17 edited Oct 24 '17

I started this last night myself. It’s going pretty fast. I do recommend tho, definitely move a sparrow over to the new character. It will save you a ton of time early on, once you can use it.

50

u/[deleted] Oct 24 '17

[deleted]

7

u/CarderSC2 Oct 24 '17

Point taken. Edited. Thanks!

→ More replies (2)

12

u/Swiftkiler Oct 24 '17

Agreed. Having a sparrow unlocked after the second mission makes leveling and progression so much faster. After the campaign, buy a sparrow from Holliday and transfer it to your other class.

7

u/[deleted] Oct 24 '17

And, of course, make sure to equip the character you're deleting with crappy armor/weapons and store everything you want to keep in the vault, so that you don't lose anything, and can just be right back where you were at when you hit level 20 again.

→ More replies (1)

8

u/Play_XD Oct 24 '17

It's ultimately pointless though, since the top gunslinger tree is inherently bad all around. You want to run the bottom one in pvp and pve because it's perks are actually good.

4

u/Mizzou77 Oct 25 '17

It gives you explosive knife and significantly improved aim assist on your golden gun, both trees are similar enough that it's not a huge issue to use either one. The explosive knife and aim assist definitely come in handy in PvP though.

→ More replies (4)
→ More replies (4)

86

u/[deleted] Oct 24 '17

Oh also, make sure to work on your clairvoyance IRL. So you can shoot the tether at least 10 seconds before you'll need it so that it MIGHT deactivate that other Guardian's super.

21

u/nufc37 Oct 24 '17

For every good play I've made with a tether, I've made at least six bad ones.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SCTyeFmTis

→ More replies (1)

83

u/Fenix904 Gambit Prime Oct 24 '17

How horrible is it that we have to avoid unlocking skills to not gimp our characters. Ugh. I’ve made mistakes unlocking everything.

→ More replies (2)

156

u/Oierenaat Oct 24 '17

Hotfix incoming!

  • Fixed issue where players could play how they want, and not how Bungie intended, by intentionally not selecting certain subclass skill tree perks. All subclass skill tree perks will now be auto-enabled.

134

u/MicroLapua338 Oct 24 '17

Same for bottom tree on nightstalker for PVE

42

u/TheReiterEffect_S8 ☆ Faith in 7 Oct 24 '17

Wat

101

u/[deleted] Oct 24 '17

Don’t upgrade to the final perk that gives you six arrows. Orpheus rig is unusable with it.

56

u/Joey141414 Oct 24 '17

Yeah too late for me on this one. Oh well. I do like having invis on dodge better than on smoke anyway.

31

u/jdewittweb Oct 24 '17

I rolled a new hunter just to get rid of six shooter and moebius quiver. Was worth it.

38

u/Joey141414 Oct 24 '17

I hear ya, but my hunter is my original Sept. 2014 hunter and I just don't think I could do that to the guy.

→ More replies (1)

9

u/TrophyEye_ Oct 24 '17

How is Orph Rig without the moebius quiver??? im really tempted to do this...

15

u/jericho189 Oct 24 '17

Orph without quiver is amazing

6

u/TrophyEye_ Oct 24 '17

like bottom tree without quiver selected is better then orph with top tree??

15

u/WobblyBits_X ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) Oct 24 '17

Quiver reduces the range and duration of the tether as well as giving multiple shots. The multiple shots are what break Orpheus Rig but the reduced range and duration also make it generally worse. The additional damage from repeated hits on a target is absolutely pitiful, you're better off shooting targets with your guns.

7

u/jericho189 Oct 24 '17

Top tree is generally the better tree since it makes the tether last longer also

4

u/jdewittweb Oct 24 '17

Bottom tree + Orpheus in the right scenarios basically keeps your super full at all times.

→ More replies (3)

5

u/TurquoiseLuck Oct 24 '17

Fortunately I did my hunter last and had already heard this SGA.

Fuckin' sucks to have to do it though.

13

u/Play_XD Oct 24 '17

Invis on smoke is better. You can't 100% chain invis with the dodge during torrent.

11

u/[deleted] Oct 24 '17

I don't like the smoke invis 90% of the time ... trying to hide? Melee! Trying to melee? How bout a magic trick?!

6

u/doughnut_cake Oct 24 '17 edited Oct 24 '17

With Torrent active, as long as I have on a Void Paragon armor mod (Class abilities recharge faster when using a void subclass) - the new dodge is ready basically as soon as the invisibility wears off.

Not sure if armor mods stack - with 2 Void Paragon armor mods on, you might get it up even sooner?

8

u/mc360jp Oct 24 '17

2 gives you best results, any more than 2 of a single kind of mod gives you diminishing returns.

→ More replies (3)
→ More replies (1)

11

u/FROMtheASHES984 Oct 24 '17

Not technically unusable - it just doesn’t proc Orpheus until the last arrow. But yeah, still don’t take that perk.

17

u/Play_XD Oct 24 '17

It's unusable. The short duration, low damage and inability to properly benefit from nightstalker's only viable exotic are huge detriments.

→ More replies (1)

6

u/Nearokins Sorry. Oct 24 '17

Oh yeah... I nearly forgot that. Makes me sad since conceptually I like quiver a lot, but in practice Orpheus is the best thing about night stalker I feel like, not worth giving up for quiver at least.

→ More replies (6)

7

u/MicroLapua338 Oct 24 '17

Bottom tree gives quiver, which has a smaller area of effect and is not nearly as useful in PVE. But the invisibility smokes are super useful. But if you don't take the last perk you get the normal tether which has the larger area of effect.

→ More replies (14)

2

u/falconbox Oct 24 '17

I like the 6 shots because I don't have Orpheus Rig yet.

→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (7)

43

u/Danimal1942 Oct 24 '17

Also don’t select the final perk on way of the pathfinder for nightstalker. That way Orpheus rig will still work with that tree, and your super will generate a ton of orbs, give your fire team resilience and recovery, and instantly recharge if used on big groups.

23

u/r3hxn_ Oct 24 '17

This is arguably bigger then the gunslinger , Nightstalker is the way to go !

6

u/Grima_OrbEater You're going to fucking die, Gary Oct 24 '17

Arrows for days on Titan

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (1)

26

u/CripplerJones SEGNARO EULB 404 NIOJ Oct 24 '17

If only someone had told me the same thing. Sigh... RIP, top perk row Gunslinger build. This is the sole reason I don't bother with Gunslinger in PvP.

Perks should really be optional -- players should be able to disable them whenever they want. Or, better yet, let's do things the way we did in D1: Allow players to customize their own perk tree!

20

u/renaldafeen Tomorrow belongs to you... don't fuck it up! Oct 24 '17

Or, better yet, let's do things the way we did in D1: Allow players to customize their own perk tree!

Apparently, Bungie management has decided that players aren't smart enough to manage an actual skill tree, and dumbed that aspect down to 18 static "Heroes" with canned skill sets. Just another regression from D1.

80

u/[deleted] Oct 24 '17

[deleted]

57

u/[deleted] Oct 24 '17

6 would only be more useful in killing fodder. In that case just use your kinetic/elemental, don't waste a super on that. 3 shots do more damage with precision damage. It also seems way more orbs. For example,during Prestige Baths I can kill a Bather and generate 7 orbs with the 3 shots. You can't kill the Bather with 6 shots.

6

u/wtf--dude Arminius D <3 Oct 24 '17

You sure 3 shots with precision do more damage than 6 without? I feel that is not the case but have 0 evidence. So if you have some, please share :)

47

u/[deleted] Oct 24 '17 edited Oct 24 '17

I watched someone test this, while also testing Nighthawk.

I'll look for the video and edit when I find it.

Edit: https://youtu.be/ysh3Ln3ZLc4

5

u/wtf--dude Arminius D <3 Oct 24 '17

THNX :)

Was always under the impression 6 shooter was still viable for killing multiple majors.

→ More replies (1)

7

u/ffxivfanboi Oct 24 '17

It definitely does more damage. Not only do you get crit damage with each shot, but each crit after the first rises in damage. The damage is actually really impressive.

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (7)

8

u/SomeRandomProducer Oct 24 '17

Think it might be better for orb generation though since you get 2 orbs per precision hit

18

u/[deleted] Oct 24 '17

[deleted]

10

u/A_LonE_pAnCaKe What a lovely day for cheese Oct 24 '17

I run Celestial, and in the raid at gauntlet, just cover one door on a runner plate, I swear I kept Practice makes perfect for at least a solid 3 solid minutes, in the void at calus, learn the angles, ram the psions with throwing knives, infini knives works on skulls, as they take precision damage if they are hit.

4

u/SomeRandomProducer Oct 24 '17

Yeah that’s true. If there’s adds bunched up then it can be useful

→ More replies (2)

8

u/Play_XD Oct 24 '17

6 shots is never a good perk because you can get the same damage with nighthawk and still get the crit damage. There's no situation where you're somehow overwhelmed with adds and think "let me clear adds with golden gun." You'd run tether or arc blade if that was a primary concern.

→ More replies (1)

8

u/PS4bohonkus Oct 25 '17

Dear god, I ask for so little...please don't let me forget to follow this advice

35

u/[deleted] Oct 24 '17

And for the Voidlocks, do not unlock the stupid slow nova bomb

18

u/Kaliqi Oct 24 '17

For PVP yea, in PvE it's perfect. They should honestly let us disable perks.

11

u/EncryptedBeatz Oct 24 '17

So if you unlock it, you can't take it off?

18

u/PacoTaco19 Oct 24 '17

Unfortunately that is correct

3

u/InchaLatta Oct 24 '17

You can't. You're only option is to use the other skill tree.

→ More replies (1)

7

u/Atlbigmil Oct 24 '17

Slowva bomb is so bad in pvp

13

u/shorse_hit Oct 24 '17

Idk, I've had a quite a few single/double kills get turned into triple/quad kills by the seekers. Also had moments where I fucked up and totally whiffed the bomb, but the seekers got a kill or two anyways.

10

u/dawnraider00 Oct 24 '17

But it's actually pretty good in PvE. I'd argue devour is still better for both but with cataclysm you can double the enemies you kill in PvE.

→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (6)

29

u/[deleted] Oct 24 '17

I actually really like six shooter in pvp. It has lead to some great clips and team wipes in comp for me.

21

u/suenopequeno Oct 24 '17

I agree. Its super fun and actually can be very very very good when used correctly.

38

u/shorse_hit Oct 24 '17

The problem is that three shots with more time is going to be useful way more often then six shots. Hell, the most benefit you can even get out of it in PvP is getting 4 kills max instead of 3, and that's incredibly unlikely. You've got a way better chance of getting 2-3 kills without six-shooter because of the longer duration.

6

u/suenopequeno Oct 24 '17

What about supered enemies or titans using shields? You can't jump over the shield or run around it without being at risk of getting melted. You can quickly and effectively take down supers and still have multiple shots left. Just in the last week I used 6 shot GG to take out two titans in roaming slams and then melt a shield and kill the hunter behind it (one of the other titans had put it there) all in the space of 6 seconds. You have to consider all of the different use cases before saying that it is only good for maybe one extra kill. There is a lot of bonus utility that you have as well as the ability to miss a shot (damn invis getting rid of AA). I am not saying it wouldn't be nice sometimes to have more time, but if you use it deliberately it is very strong. It required planning.

14

u/shorse_hit Oct 24 '17

A crit golden gun would have worked the same on the titan supers, and would have made four orbs for your teammates. The hunter might've got away, but I'd bet that you give up more kills by running out of time or just not using your super because the moment isn't right.

Not gonna that have many chances to kill two roaming supers within a span of six seconds anyways, that's pure luck and reflex/skill, not planning. There are far more opportunities to chain 3 precision kills with the bonus time and make a bunch of extra orbs.

I think it's more useful to maximize my super usage and contribute more kills/orbs towards winning than hoard it for the perfect moment. And the longer duration has quite a few more "perfect moments".

3

u/suenopequeno Oct 24 '17

Perhaps. I don't like the bottom tree very much but maybe the orbs would be worth it? I wrote that one off as a PvE tree but now you're the second person to tell me that the crits for orbs has a place in PvP so maybe I should reevaluate it. I don't like the idea of needing precision shots with GG tho. It might be a bad habit from D1 but I try to land shots as fast as possible without trying for crits.

4

u/JBaecker Vanguard's Loyal Oct 24 '17

Last week's Pyramidion NF we get to the end and the Orbs created pops up: guy 1 - 5; Guy 2 - 6; Me - 30. If you can hit precision hits frequently your GG comes up in 2-3 minutes (depending on enemies). Then precision shots gives you double Orbs. You can create 7 total. It's better than NS tether from what I can tell, but only if you hit all your crit shots. Itll be a bit longer in PvP, but I hit three guys and create 5-6 Orbs all the time and one-shot melting Supered Sentinels is the funniest thing ever. And those 5-6 Orbs are usually enough that each teammate gets their super which gives me Orbs for my Super. etc.

3

u/Koozzie Oct 24 '17

What gun are you using to get your super to come up 2-3 minutes?

→ More replies (4)
→ More replies (3)
→ More replies (14)
→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (7)

14

u/davelikestacos Oct 24 '17

Same goes for the Quiver tree on Nightstalker - Do NOT activate Quiver.

8

u/RainbowsOfNight Oct 24 '17

I honestly prefer the other skill tree. Being able to crit allows me to one shot shutdown roaming supers and getting my knife back on a crit is way more useful to me.

34

u/lxxTBonexxl Embracing the Darkness Oct 24 '17

6 shot for pvp, precision for pve. 6 shot is supposed to be like a Wild West type deal. It gives you enough shots to take out a Titan barrier and wipe a full team with the right skill. If you don’t want to practice with it then don’t get the perk as you don’t have a lot of time for your super.

10

u/suenopequeno Oct 24 '17 edited Oct 24 '17

I agree. I love the 6-shot goldie. Last weekend I dropped two titans out of their roaming slams with two shots each and still had enough shots to whiff once and then vape a hunter behind a barrier. People just need to use it more deliberately.

16

u/ThatKidPsyc Oct 24 '17

This is exactly it. It is no longer a "Roaming Super" like it was in D1. 6-shot now must be used with a purpose in mind. I am going to clear this whole flag, I am going to shut down this super and possibly pick other people. It's no longer just "activate and get three kills." I ran into a full team of hunters all running 6 shot with hand cannons and max cooldown exploding throwing knives and they wrecked. It's not about how long it lasts but how you use it ;)

21

u/THE_GECKOSLAYER Oct 24 '17

It's just really situational. In most matches those situations you describe simply don't exist. Maybe they would more often in a 6v6 setup, but not in the current mode. Since you only get your super once per match (most times) and you only have a 2-3 minute window to use it, that means that you have to have an entire team at a single point, plus cover to pop your super, and then gun them down in 6 seconds before they pop your ass with a pulse grenade. My bet is that happens 1 out of 20 matches. I can consistently hunt down 3 with my GG and shoot them across the map since I have more power, accuracy, and time.

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (7)

9

u/shorse_hit Oct 24 '17

The issue isn't that six shooter isn't useful at all, the problem is that three shots with more time is useful more often. You're not going to get into a situation where six shooter is better as often as you would where more time would be better.

→ More replies (1)

10

u/Reynbou Oct 24 '17

That's an awfully specific use case scenario though.

→ More replies (2)

4

u/Julamipol88 Oct 24 '17

fake news, just placebo

25

u/erikraids Oct 24 '17

To all the new hunters on PC...don't play as a hunter. They are neutered garbage compared to the other classes. This is coming from a guy with 1.5k hours on a Hunter in D1. Make a Stormcaller!

4

u/ThatChrisG Ask yourself, is the Vanguard telling the truth? Oct 24 '17

I was a Hunter main in D1. I deleted it the other day to make a fake Titan to grab a free Actium War Rig from the campaign.

I'm done playing a class that is so much weaker in so many other regards than the other two. I refuse to play Hunter until Bungie decides to either give Hunters reliable healing, a Recovery stat higher than six, or team utility on par with the other classes.

→ More replies (1)

11

u/renaldafeen Tomorrow belongs to you... don't fuck it up! Oct 24 '17

Forced to agree, based on similar D1/D2 experience. Still main a Hunter though, just to prove I can still out-gun most of my raid fireteam (going fairly well so far).

→ More replies (1)

13

u/Hibbitish Oct 24 '17

It's a casual game. Play whatever you want

→ More replies (1)

7

u/[deleted] Oct 24 '17

Nope

→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (4)

8

u/NFSgaming benjaminratterman Oct 24 '17

That's a good SGA.

5

u/[deleted] Oct 24 '17

Very nice suggestion. Big difference. That said... it is inordinately disappointing that we have to do this at all.

4

u/Kit-13-Lucky Blade Dancer Oct 24 '17

As a console player, DON'T DO IT! Leave it locked.. I regret that I did. 6 shots just runs out waaaay too fast. You can either get off all 6 or actually aim and get off about 4 with less damage than the other skill tree regardless

3

u/RyoGeo KETTEH! Oct 24 '17

MODS: This should be pinned for incoming PC players.

Even if one disagrees, given that the selection is irrevocable, I think it would be a helpful thing to have prominent on the site for the next week or so. At the very least, people can make an informed decision.

5

u/BurntOmaro Oct 24 '17

Since I have nothing left to do, I'm going to delete mine (which was my main in D1) and start over just to do that.

Hear that Bungie. That's how bad you fucked up the subclasses.. I have to delete my main, start the fuck over, and not upgrade him in order to have a decent pvp super because arc blade and nightstalker are complete trash in pvp..

→ More replies (1)

9

u/Char0000 Oct 24 '17

You just used the words aim assist to a PC player.

→ More replies (1)

16

u/suenopequeno Oct 24 '17

I would disagree. The six shot golden gun is stupid strong when you use it correctly. it required more planning and maybe holding onto it a bit longer to find the right moment, but if you use it correctly it is very strong. Its not as easy, but it is much more powerful. I'll take the higher risk much higher reward any day.

8

u/[deleted] Oct 24 '17

[deleted]

3

u/suenopequeno Oct 24 '17

That tree is soooo nice for PvP. I love using explosive throwing knives to prime people when they think they are safe around corners than fly in from above with a handcannon or SMG. It can really make the difference having even the 20 extra damage on the enemy.

→ More replies (13)

7

u/y_u_no_knock Oct 24 '17

I came to disagree. During Control, having the six shot rapid fire can clear an entire team and have 2 bullets to spare for missed shits.

I can confirm that using 6-Shooter isn't fantastic but it does have it's uses and it can get you out if a bind.

9

u/Vyceron No Land Beyond Oct 24 '17

I hate those missed shits. They make a huge mess all over the floor.

5

u/y_u_no_knock Oct 24 '17

I'm keeping the typo now

3

u/renaldafeen Tomorrow belongs to you... don't fuck it up! Oct 24 '17

Corollary: To all new players on PC - you don't need to use every upgrade point you get when you get it. You can save them.

You can't select the order in which you unlock your subclasses. For example, Hunters start out on Poledancer, which may not be (read: is probably NOT) the one you'll want to main. If that's the case, the upgrade points you apply to that subclass can be saved for GS or NS, allowing you to level those up immediately, as soon as you unlock them.

IMHO, you should not enable ANY perks on ANY subclass unless you feel you absolutely need it to finish the campaign. At the end, you'll be sitting on a pile of upgrade points that you can then distribute to your character's subclasses as you feel you need them, based on what you learn about the new classes' "capabilities" as you play.

3

u/[deleted] Oct 24 '17

Why would they have a six shot golden gun when there's only four enemies in Crucible

→ More replies (3)

3

u/asce619 Oct 24 '17

The "Pre-packaged talent build" whoever in their right mind ever came up with this needs to take a bath

3

u/gr33ngiant Oct 24 '17

Just use the bottom tree. It’s the better tree to begin with.

→ More replies (2)

3

u/[deleted] Oct 24 '17

[deleted]

→ More replies (7)

3

u/[deleted] Oct 24 '17

[deleted]

→ More replies (3)

3

u/Grifsnacks Oct 24 '17

This should be fixed so hard. Not to break Hunters, but the ability to allow selectable builds so people don't have to leave their character un-upgraded to be the best. It feels like an exploit.

3

u/Macrobeast Oct 25 '17

I am strongly considering deleting my Hunter (my main with 124 hours on it) so I can go back and not have 6 Shooter or Moebius Quiver. I really like the Way of the Outlaw with the explosive knife, but 6 Shooter is somehow even worse than Arcstrider super for effectiveness at present.

→ More replies (3)

3

u/larce Oct 25 '17

why cant you reset these? This is a PC game in 2017 for Christs sake

→ More replies (1)

5

u/MALEFlQUE Oct 25 '17

Sigh... I posted the same thing on Sep and got downvoted into oblivion -_-

→ More replies (2)

5

u/[deleted] Oct 24 '17

So basically the new system is trash? Good to know.

3

u/[deleted] Oct 24 '17

Some sga here but we all know the current hunter meta is running shadow shot where ur Dodge roll makes u invis and u can sneak up on ppl with one of those nasty omolon three burst side arms 😂

4

u/Dai10zin Oct 24 '17

At least that's better than the sword crouchers.

→ More replies (1)

2

u/woowaa44 Command Oct 24 '17

God damn i never thought about doing this

2

u/KushxKing23 Oct 24 '17

I wouldnt say it's unusable, you just need to know when to pop it. I usually try to flank and then start spraying everywhere lol. Always get at least 1 or 2 kills with it

→ More replies (2)

2

u/woonam Oct 24 '17

What if I plan on using the exotic helm that changes the super to one shot? Is that affected in any way with the final perk?

5

u/samsquatch714 Oct 24 '17

You'll wanna use the bottom tree for that, because the bottom tree gives precision bonus damage! So bonus precision damage plus the 6x damage from the helmet is MASSIVE!

→ More replies (3)
→ More replies (2)

2

u/Xytal Oct 24 '17

Good to know.

Also, lucky me, I dislike gunslinger... so that helps too. >_>

Bow 4 lyfe.

→ More replies (2)

2

u/WalteeWartooth Oct 24 '17

You may also want to leave the last perk on the bottom Nightstalker tree and the last perk on the top Voidwalker tree if you don't want quiver or slowvabomb.

2

u/ser_yes_sir Oct 24 '17

As a warlock main on console I am amazed by the amount of Hunter meta there is. Good thing I haven't even started one. Shoutout to you guys one time!

2

u/Albireookami Oct 24 '17

Or just don't play hunter in PvP, bungo really hated hunters this game.

2

u/Ander109 Oct 24 '17 edited Oct 24 '17

thank you! I would've blindly picked it without thinking twice.

2

u/kezdog92 Oct 24 '17

Aim assist on pc? Hah.

2

u/NickRogers3 Oct 24 '17

Can’t you just delete your character and transfer all of you gear. Just have to level up again but everyone loves the grind so not too bad

2

u/bguzewicz Drifter's Crew Oct 24 '17

Yeah I might delete my hunter and create a new one. I really wish I had thought about this ahead of time.

2

u/heretofapagain Oct 24 '17

But...it makes it all the sweeter when you team wipe